Revelation 11:1-3 - Can someone explain to me what these 3 verses are telling us?

[Reddsta]

What do you think is required for someone to be part of the church?

As I see it typically…agree with the denominational by-laws for membership…show up on Sunday for service…listen to the pastor/preacher…sing along in the “worship service”…bring in a tithe and in some cases an offering as well.

Perhaps one might function in a formal capacity as an “usher, small group leader, children’s ministry, etc. Take your “communion wafer and grape juice” in observation of the “Lord’s Supper.” In some churches members might be asked to work to make converts to the church and teach bible studies.

Attend “mid-week ministry” event as necessary…be nice to and help others, do good things, read your bible and pray…attend “small group” if applicable…watch and wait [prepare] for the Lord’s secret “pre-trib” rapture…so we can go to heaven.

Peacefully submit to an institutional “power over” org chart comprised of “officials” who hold administrative positions [clergy] over the people [laity] in a dual caste system. Be faithful to the church as much as one can.

In some churches being filled with the Holy Spirit and being baptized are optional. Partake in church building and outreach projects and efforts.

Redd...:)

 

[Reddsta]

I'm saying that the two witnesses symbolically reference the church. Do you agree or not?

Well based upon my responses to you from above in regards to the difference in the definitions between the “church” and the “Body of Christ”…no I do not agree. To you perhaps it is an issue of semantics…I am fine with that Spiritual Israelite…understand it the way you desire…I am merely sharing my understanding with you.

FWIW…the crux of my disparity between the two…[church and Body]…might be understood by some as the tangible effect of the “apostasy – rebellion, defection, revolt” against Body of Christ…which I understand to be the “separation” between the “inner court” [Body of Christ] and “outer court” [church] groups.

Redd...:)

 

[Reddsta]

What do you mean by that exactly? What exactly do you believe the two witnesses represent? What character and nature attributes define the two witnesses? And does this even matter if we are both concluding that the two witnesses symbolically represent the church?

Well friend…I stated my answer to these questions in post #32 and in my original response to you…#35 and a subsequent response to “ewq1938” #37…I understand that you and most others may have never heard this before…at least you have the stones to dig into it to this point…which I admire…just look at it…talk to the Lord Yahshua about it. I will post that explanation here once again…and attempt a more clear detail as well.

“As I stated in my posts…specifically #32 I believe it was…the two witnesses are the “King of kings” who is on the throne of God…which King...is also the “High Priest”…and you have a “High Priest” sitting on the throne of God as King…this is the “two fold” description of the spiritual characteristics of a “Royal Priesthood” these are your "two witnesses" on display as the “mature” Body of Christ in the earth…see Revelation 4.

“Christ”…who is upon the throne of God [Revelation 4]…is ultimately defined as a “Head with a Body”…and when seen or taken together as “One complete Body”…reveals the spiritual man known as…“Christ”…and here…you are looking at the “Son of God”…Christ head and Body.

Under the Head…”Yahshua the Son of God…Christ”…is the Body of the “Son of God…Christ” that will be directly proportional in every way to its Head. When you bring them together as one [John 17] it will reveal the glory of God to creation…because “Christ” is the glory of the Father.

Now…the character attributes of the “Christ” who is upon the throne of God are twofold. Sitting on the throne of God makes Him the King of kings…however it is not only the “King of kings” who is sitting upon that throne…”Christ”…is also the “High Priest” of the eternal priesthood of “Melchizedek.” A deeper understanding of the “administration of the government of God”…helps to bring definition and clarity of function to the reality of the High Priest.

When the reigning “King – Gold crown” on the throne of God…”Christ”…is also the reigning “High Priest – Silver crown”…”Christ”…you have what is called a “Royal Priest”… “Christ.” “Christ” is also referenced as the “temple of the living God”…of course…the Holy Spirit’s actual presence “dwells” within the temple of God…known as “Christ.”

So…to continue on here…the references to “Gold and Silver crowns” comes from Zechariah 6:11 where “Joshua” the “high priest” is crowned king in place of…Zerubbabel and he wears the crown of “Silver and Gold”…a type of what I am suggesting…it will require some of your time to dig in there.

Now…the “two witnesses” who are on the earth to the end of the age as stated in Revelation 11…are “Christ” whom God has anointed “both”…“King and High Priest as Royal Priest”…in the “eternal priest hood of Melchizedek.” It’s the same picture as when Yahshua Himself in His flesh walked the earth. He walked the earth as “King” on the throne of God and as the “High priest”…hence He is the “Royal Priest.”

The two witnesses that testify…which is what a “witness is or does”…to the Lordship of Christ on the earth via the twin anointing's of 1) King of kings and 2) High priest…will reveal the “Royal Priest” on the earth in the flesh once again as “Christ.”

So…”Christ…Head and Body”…which is the Lord appearing in His people…His temple…will be on the earth until it is time for the Lord to remove the veil between the physical temporal realm and the eternal realm in which He rules…leading into the revealing of the next age.

Different...sure...try it out...thank you for the conversation the "strawman" as you put it was completely unintentional on my part...sorry.

Redd...:)

 

[Earburner]

Well friend…I stated my answer to these questions in post #32 and in my original response to you…#35 and a subsequent response to “ewq1938” #37…I understand that you and most others may have never heard this before…at least you have the stones to dig into it to this point…which I admire…just look at it…talk to the Lord Yahshua about it. I will post that explanation here once again…and attempt a more clear detail as well.

“As I stated in my posts…specifically #32 I believe it was…the two witnesses are the “King of kings” who is on the throne of God…which King...is also the “High Priest”…and you have a “High Priest” sitting on the throne of God as King…this is the “two fold” description of the spiritual characteristics of a “Royal Priesthood” these are your "two witnesses" on display as the “mature” Body of Christ in the earth…see Revelation 4.

“Christ”…who is upon the throne of God [Revelation 4]…is ultimately defined as a “Head with a Body”…and when seen or taken together as “One complete Body”…reveals the spiritual man known as…“Christ”…and here…you are looking at the “Son of God”…Christ head and Body.

Under the Head…”Yahshua the Son of God…Christ”…is the Body of the “Son of God…Christ” that will be directly proportional in every way to its Head. When you bring them together as one [John 17] it will reveal the glory of God to creation…because “Christ” is the glory of the Father.

Now…the character attributes of the “Christ” who is upon the throne of God are twofold. Sitting on the throne of God makes Him the King of kings…however it is not only the “King of kings” who is sitting upon that throne…”Christ”…is also the “High Priest” of the eternal priesthood of “Melchizedek.” A deeper understanding of the “administration of the government of God”…helps to bring definition and clarity of function to the reality of the High Priest.

When the reigning “King – Gold crown” on the throne of God…”Christ”…is also the reigning “High Priest – Silver crown”…”Christ”…you have what is called a “Royal Priest”… “Christ.” “Christ” is also referenced as the “temple of the living God”…of course…the Holy Spirit’s actual presence “dwells” within the temple of God…known as “Christ.”

So…to continue on here…the references to “Gold and Silver crowns” comes from Zechariah 6:11 where “Joshua” the “high priest” is crowned king in place of…Zerubbabel and he wears the crown of “Silver and Gold”…a type of what I am suggesting…it will require some of your time to dig in there.

Now…the “two witnesses” who are on the earth to the end of the age as stated in Revelation 11…are “Christ” whom God has anointed “both”…“King and High Priest as Royal Priest”…in the “eternal priest hood of Melchizedek.” It’s the same picture as when Yahshua Himself in His flesh walked the earth. He walked the earth as “King” on the throne of God and as the “High priest”…hence He is the “Royal Priest.”

The two witnesses that testify…which is what a “witness is or does”…to the Lordship of Christ on the earth via the twin anointing's of 1) King of kings and 2) High priest…will reveal the “Royal Priest” on the earth in the flesh once again as “Christ.”

So…”Christ…Head and Body”…which is the Lord appearing in His people…His temple…will be on the earth until it is time for the Lord to remove the veil between the physical temporal realm and the eternal realm in which He rules…leading into the revealing of the next age.

Different...sure...try it out...thank you for the conversation the "strawman" as you put it was completely unintentional on my part...sorry.

Redd...:)

Very interesting, which somewhat runs parallel to my understanding, but is 2024+/- years in the past.

I perceive the "Two anointed ones" of Zech 4:14 are the Two Witnesses, being John the Babtist and Jesus, who did come before "that great and terrible Day of the LORD".

Of all people in the world, for all of time, the only Two people who were ever born with the Holy Spirit [anointed], was John and Jesus, whose joint ministry lasted for 42 mos., aka 3.5 years.

 

[Reddsta]

I perceive the "Two anointed ones" of Zech 4:14 are the Two Witnesses, being John the Babtist and Jesus, who did come before "that great and terrible Day of the LORD".

Greetings @Earburner...

As I see it...the two witnesses come out from the "measuring of the naos" the dwelling place of God...or the most Holy place of the temple. The "church" is the heathens just outside the Most Holy place pretending they are the "Body of Christ"...but are actually the "hartlot."

That is why I believe the Body of Christ on the earth...which is presently upon the throne of God as the "Body of the eternal King"...who is also the eternal High Priest making..."Christ - Head and Body" the eternal "Royal Priest".

Hence...the Head and Body of Christ or simply stated..."Christ"...possesses...the power and authority of the "sitting King" and the righteous Holy anointing of the "sitting High priest"...therefore I see those attributes or characteristics [King, High Priest] as the "two witnesses" brought forth and put on display in the earth in "Christ"...as...Christ the Royal Priest.

This will not play well with modern institutional church "eschatology" nor "theology" for that matter...because they...the "church"...as I see it...is the "outer court" from Revelation 11:2.

Redd...:)

 

[Earburner]

Greetings @Earburner...

As I see it...the two witnesses come out from the "measuring of the naos" the dwelling place of God...or the most Holy place of the temple. The "church" is the heathens just outside the Most Holy place pretending they are the "Body of Christ"...but are actually the "hartlot."

That is why I believe the Body of Christ on the earth...which is presently upon the throne of God as the "Body of the eternal King"...who is also the eternal High Priest making..."Christ - Head and Body" the eternal "Royal Priest".

Hence...the Head and Body of Christ or simply stated..."Christ"...possesses...the power and authority of the "sitting King" and the righteous Holy anointing of the "sitting High priest"...therefore I see those attributes or characteristics [King, High Priest] as the "two witnesses" brought forth and put on display in the earth in "Christ"...as...Christ the Royal Priest.

This will not play well with modern institutional church "eschatology" nor "theology" for that matter...because they...the "church"...as I see it...is the "outer court" from Revelation 11:2.

Redd...:)

If you are saying that Christ the HEAD is one of the two witnesses, and born again Christians only are His BODY, as being the other witness, then from the spiritual perspective, I can agree with your understanding.

However, the "Promise that was to come", was Jesus Himself, who is the ONLY direct and infallible witness of who God the Father is.
As for the ministry of John the Baptist, he was at that time (for 6 months) the ONLY witness of who Christ is, by calling Him to be "The Lamb OF God, who taketh away the sins of the world", which ideally was the voice of the Father speaking through him.

Finally, the secret of who the Messiah/Savior was, which was kept secret since the foundation of the world, was then revealed through John the baptist. Rom. 16:25; 1 Peter 1:20.
Between the two of them, in their joint ministry, (1260 days/3.5 yrs) being the ONLY two "ANOINTED" witnesses of the truth of the God head, has been revealed by the Holy Spirit (the "golden oil") within them, to all the world.
Zech. 4:11-14 has been fulfilled.