Theosis vs Christlikeness
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David in NJ
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the Christian walk is about being perfected into Christ in His PERFECT humanity towards His FATHER
JESUS Says: "But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect."
You have misunderstood the teaching of Theosis by using your western mind and not grasping the difference between God's essence and His energies.
EO teaching is that we can share in His energies, that is to say, to become Christlike in our humanity as Adam would have been had he obeyed God. No human can share in the essence of God.
Godlike or a god, is the same as Christlike.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
JESUS came to fix that and make it possible = "for with God all things are possible"
God's "enegies" is His Holy Spirit. There is no other energy from God that affects us. You are merely repeating a "factory setting" that somehow is supposed to explain away something that is not found in the bible.
You are not understanding the doctrine of theosis as it is taught. Deification means to become a god. It means to become holy or god-like in ourselves...by grace. And this isn't true. We become Christlike in His humanity as we are covered by His divinity. We never become divine ourselves. So then while the Protestants undershoot the truth....the Orthodox go too far. In any case many in the Orthodox church have experienced a close walk in the Spirit. It's the ones who OBSERVE THESE that have walked there that made up the doctrine...confusing the miraculous walk in Christ with that of a god. We never attain the Christ BEFORE He was made man. Rather, we become a mature version of Adam BEFORE he sinned.
It would be like a backward culture seeing a man flying in an airplane and think he's superman.
No, the miracle is found in the conveyance...the plane. Just as the miracle is found in Christ who causes us to fly above the things of this world by the Spirit.
Then there are those who have experienced the higher walk and misunderstood its purpose. No one will be judged easier for having walked higher. To whom much is given more is required. The purpose of giving us a divine cleansing purity is to promote a spiritual maturity...in character...that must be earned. We will be judged by how we have fulfilled that requisite.
Happy Christmas to all! :) <><
You are correct. It is though the Holy Spirit making us holy that we can walk as Christ walked. I have the experience not just the theory.
You are not understanding the experience. It's one thing to experience something and quite another to get the context right. I too have walked in Zion in the light. I remained the second time for over 2 years. So I know the eternal peace and rest of God. But I fell from that place...I was not in a permanent higher walk. Why? A lack of maturity.
So then the training of a saint is IN holiness in order to bear that holiness in character. Like a good vessel...one of honour. But we ourselves can still sin in this world. We go in and out of the Spirit with the opposing forces of God's will and our own.
If this was about deification rather than the training of an earthen vessel, then any sin after the experience would be eternally fateful. There would be no more forgiveness possible. We would have become an evil god.
That would be all things in the eyes of God....not in our imagination. ;)
Are we not already "gods" (spiritual-Beings/Souls) that -- since the fall from grace in the Garden of Eden -- have only forgotten who and what we are?
Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you (your spirit-Beings) [are] children of the Most High.
John 10:34-36
10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are gods?
10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the Word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken;
10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
CORRECT
For the Word of LIFE never LIES
Question: What are the Three Promises of God that fulfills His Prophecy for us???
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
YES - we are!!!
But what is the damnation of becoming "a god" as JESUS declared???
I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
But you shall die like men,
The damnation is reserved for those who still believe the satanic lie "we're only human after all" and continue in sin, just as Eve did in the Garden of Eden and then convinced Adam to join her in her insanity.
John 8:15-18
8:15 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.
8:16 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even [the Same] that I said unto you from the beginning.
8:17 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but He that sent me is True; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him.
8:18 They understood not that he spoke to them of the Father.
John 8:25 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the prisoner of sin.
John 3:19-21
3:19 And THIS is the condemnation, that Light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than Light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the Light, neither cometh to the Light, lest his deeds should be revealed.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the Light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
I don't think you have understood what he is saying, he believes that everyone (you, me and everybody else) preexisted, participated in the satanic rebellion (Gen 3) and you, me and everybody else (more than 100 billion currently) as a result were kicked out of Paradise and that's why we here (as gods) to die like a men.
Merry Christmas to you as well.
I wonder if you are familiar with the books and teachings of Watchman Nee, it's about the same subject, holiness. I have read about all his books. Does it ring a bell?
Yes, I read some of his many books many years ago. I remember them encouraging me in the face of a modern church that didn't have any understanding of spiritual things at all...going exactly the opposite way to what is sound and wise and pleasing to God.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
No scripture states that we pre-existed with God in SIN.
The Scriptures only declare/define man's sin as BEGINNING on earth - never in Heaven.
Shalom
Sure, but with the exception of Adam & Eve, they lived as only ones in the presence of the Lord in Paradise, a supernatural place with no death.
A big Shalom in return.
I have read Nee's books, and it seemed to me that he held to, what came to be known as Keswickian (a small town in England) theology.
It differs somewhat to the patristic doctrine of Theosis. In Keswick theology, there are two steps, one of justification and then a 'second blessing', which also had some roots in Pentecostalism and Wesleyism.
In the EO tradition, there are three steps, the second step in the west, known as Illumination whereby the follower is revealed the way of holiness by God, and knows some cleansing, but has not yet attained likeness to Christ in theosis.
I am reading an interesting book at the moment called Theology as a Spiritual State in the Life and teaching of Saint Sophrony the Athonite by Archimandrite Peter about this subject of holiness.
Theosis is badly understood in the west, and is the main reason why the church is in such a state here I think. Many ill read westerners think that the EO teach that man becomes a god which is false.
Incorrect.
"I said, 'You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High. But you will die like men and fall like any ruler.'"
This statement, found in the Hebrew Scriptures, is best understood in its context. Psalm 82 is a divine rebuke addressed to human judges or leaders who were given authority by God to uphold justice and righteousness. The term "gods" (Hebrew: elohim) here does not imply divinity in the sense of being like the one true God, but rather refers to individuals who act as representatives of God's authority on Earth.
Use of "gods" (elohim):
The word elohim in Hebrew can mean "God" in the ultimate sense, but it is also used for beings or persons who wield divine-like authority or judgment (e.g., Exodus 21:6; 22:8-9). In this psalm, it addresses judges who are failing to uphold their God-given responsibilities.
Context of mortality:
Despite being called "gods" in their role as authorities, they are reminded of their human mortality: "But you shall die like men." T
his emphasizes that their exalted positions do not exempt them from accountability or the consequences of their actions.
New Testament reference:
In John 10:34-36, Jesus refers to this passage when responding to accusations of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God. He says:
"Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came-and the Scripture cannot be broken-do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?"
Jesus highlights that if human judges could be called "gods" due to their role in receiving and executing divine authority, how much more legitimate is His claim as the one sent by the Father.
Theological significance:
The passage does not suggest that humans possess divine essence or status equal to God. This is a blasphemous thought!
Instead, it affirms the high calling and responsibility given to those who act as God’s agents, while showing their mortality and accountability. It further serves to magnify the unique role of Christ, who embodies true divinity and authority.
J.
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