Exploring Trinitarian Logic

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Wrangler

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"And God said, Let us make man according to our image and likeness [...]" (Gen. 1:26)

The Holy Trinity, or, in other words, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is in Scripture: "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19)
“Us” and “our” does not mean 3 or 3 in 1.

None of this says the nature of God is a trinity or having to believe it a requirement of salvation.

The fact that you have to invoke such verses and read your doctrine into it shows how desperate it must be to defend a doctrine absent from Scripture.
 
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David in NJ

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"And God said, Let us make man according to our image and likeness [...]" (Gen. 1:26)

The Holy Trinity, or, in other words, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is in Scripture: "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19)

"You believe that God is one. You do well." (Jas. 2:19)

Everything is threefold in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Forms, effects, and powers. Their Trinity: their threefold and single nature [N:43]. One Triune God.

The Immense One loves Himself, not with a selfish love, but with an active, most powerful-indeed, infinite-love, and by this act alone, which is most perfect, He begets his Word, in all respects equal to Him, the Father, except in the difference of His Person. For if God is Triune—that is, an admirable unity, so to speak—with three faces, in order to make the explanation clear to the uninstructed, it is also a truth of faith that the individual faces are quite different—that is, in theological terms there is one single God and there are Three Persons, equal in all respects as regards Divinity, Eternity, Immensity, and Omnipotence, but not confused in relation to one another, but, rather, quite distinct, and One is not the Other, and yet there are not three gods, but a single God, who in and of Himself has given being to the individual Divine Persons in generating the Son and, by that very act, originating the procession of the Holy Spirit. [N:45-50]
The KEY to understanding this begins in Genesis and the Hebrew word for God.

In the beginning
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית (bə·rê·šîṯ)
Preposition-b | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7225: 1) first, beginning, best, chief 1a) beginning 1b) first 1c) chief 1d) choice part

God
אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God

The correct word for 'God' is Elohim, which is plural

Therefore the TRUTH of Elohim must be expressed as THEY are = THREE Who are One

The word for 'One' in the Shema is 'Echad' = another Hebrew word that denotes ONE in UNITY

As you quoted so it is TRUTH: "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness" = Spoken THREE times

SHALOM and Welcome to ChristianityBoardForum
 

Grailhunter

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the name 'Yeshua/Salvation is in the OT scriptures, in many places as it takes on different spellings with the SAME meaning.

As a matter of fact here is the proclamation in Exodus 15:2

The LORD is my strength and my song, and He has become my salvation.
He is my God, and I will praise Him, my father’s God, and I will exalt Him.

My righteousness is near, My salvation has gone forth, And My arms will judge the peoples;
The coastlands will wait upon Me, And on My arm they will trust. - Isaiah 51:5

Salvation is far from the wicked, For they do not seek Your statutes. - Psalm 119:155

The Lord is my light and my salvation; - Psalm 27:1

I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ - Isaiah 49:6

Pay special ATTENTION to the Truth of Salvation for it is a PERSON

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

There is nothing in that song that defines Yeshua.....lol
I worship my fathter's God but that does not define me as Yeshua
 

David in NJ

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There is nothing in that song that defines Yeshua.....lol
I worship my fathter's God but that does not define me as Yeshua
I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ - Isaiah 49:6

Who does this Speak of???
 

Grailhunter

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I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ - Isaiah 49:6

Who does this Speak of???

I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ - Isaiah 49:6

Who does this Speak of???

A prophecy of the Messiah….to be born.
 

David in NJ

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A prophecy of the Messiah….to be born.
Nothing mentioned in there about being born BUT i agree that the Word that was Elohim became flesh.

The FULFILMENT of the Prophecy of Isaiah 49:6 which is Salvation/Yeshua and the Light of Life

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
 

Grailhunter

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Well the fact is that the Messiah was born of a woman. I do not think I read too much into that one.
 

Bladerunner

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Nothing mentioned in there about being born BUT i agree that the Word that was Elohim became flesh.

The FULFILMENT of the Prophecy of Isaiah 49:6 which is Salvation/Yeshua and the Light of Life

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
Ok, BUT can man please GOD at all? Roms 8:7-8 As long as we are in the flesh, we cannot please GOD. without GOD's help, we are lost.
 
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David in NJ

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Ok, BUT can man please GOD at all? Roms 8:7-8 As long as we are in the flesh, we cannot please GOD. without GOD's help, we are lost.
Please allow me to ask without accusing me - i am for you and not against you

Since we do not know each other - Have you come to Christ and experienced the New Birth in Him?
 

Bladerunner

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Please allow me to ask without accusing me - i am for you and not against you

Since we do not know each other - Have you come to Christ and experienced the New Birth in Him?
Yes, and I also believe that He , the Lord Jesus Christ authored every word in the Bible....
 
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David in NJ

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and what might that be?
Acts 1:4-8
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem,
but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me;
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
 

Bladerunner

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Acts 1:4-8
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem,
but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me;
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Pentecost and the Church that Jesus built
 
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Grailhunter

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Ok, BUT can man please GOD at all? Roms 8:7-8 As long as we are in the flesh, we cannot please GOD. without GOD's help, we are lost.

Pleasing God....is obedience and good character and makes for a closer relationship with God….

1st John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.

Hebrews 13:16 Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

2nd Corinthians 5:9 So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him.

John 8:29 And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.

1st Thessalonians 4:1 Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more.

2nd Thessalonians 2:4 But just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, so we speak, not to please man, but to please God who tests our hearts.

Ephesian 5:8-10 For at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.

Hebrews 13:15-16 Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name. Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Colossians 1:10 So as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God.

1st Timothy 5:3-5 Honor widows who are truly widows. But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the sight of God. She who is truly a widow, left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day,



The Sheep and the Goats Matthew 25:31-46

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


The Parable of Talents Matthew 25:14:30

14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants[a] and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents,[b] to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant.[c] You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’



James 4:17 So for one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, for him it is sin.

Now I do not know how you came up with the idea that being good and doing good does not please the Lord, but these scriptures prove that Paul had his head on straight. Is this where the term screw loose comes from?

As far as being good and doing good.....that is not what saves you....but if you are thinking that heaven is going to be like Hotel California, you are wrong. You can in fact sin your way to hell. And doing good is not what gets you to heaven but not doing good can get you hell. Read the ending of the Sheep and the Goats.

This is not rocket science. God makes sense. What Christ teaches us makes sense. Christianity is not a religion of non-sense.
 

Scott Downey

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Romans 5:5
Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

2 Corinthians 1:22
who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Ephesians 4:7

But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

1 John 3:24

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

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John 4
9 Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?” For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.

10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

11 The woman said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water?

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32 The Pharisees heard the crowd murmuring these things concerning Him, and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take Him. 33 Then Jesus said [f]to them, “I shall be with you a little while longer, and then I go to Him who sent Me. 34 You will seek Me and not find Me, and where I am you cannot come.”

35 Then the Jews said among themselves, “Where does He intend to go that we shall not find Him? Does He intend to go to the Dispersion among the Greeks and teach the Greeks? 36 What is this thing that He said, ‘You will seek Me and not find Me, and where I am you cannot come’?”

The Promise of the Holy Spirit​

37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.

38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”

39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those [g]believing in Him would receive; for the [h]Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.


Who Is He?​

40 Therefore [i]many from the crowd, when they heard this saying, said, “Truly this is the Prophet.” 41 Others said, “This is the Christ.”

But some said, “Will the Christ come out of Galilee? 42 Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the seed of David and from the town of Bethlehem, where David was?” 43 So there was a division among the people because of Him. 44 Now some of them wanted to take Him, but no one laid hands on Him.

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Bladerunner

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i received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit about a year after i was saved/born again.

It is the Holy Spirit that Opens the Scriptures to us and thus why HE is called the Spirit of Truth.
the bible teaches being reborn again is the same a justification/salvation..thus the Holy Spirit is immediate...If you are speaking of being regenerated, receiving a heart of Flesh in place of the heart of stone; one can receive the Holy Spirit and Justification from the beginning of the regeneration or anywhere in between this date and death.
 
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