On the pre-existence of Jesus

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A Freeman

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Look again.


Man is "Tri-part".

Body
Soul
Spirit

The Spirit is the LIFE, and the actual "inner you" ... eternal you.....that is born again.. "spiritually", or not.

The Soul... is the Mind, Will, and Emotions.......

So, you have the body that contains the Spirit that is regenerated as a Son/Daughter of God and then you have the MIND.. that is the Soul..or the Soul Realm where your thinking and feelings exist.

Thats 3 Parts of a Human...........that correlate to God is 3<>ONE....

God is a TRI-UNE being... He is 3 in ONE.. and because we are "made in God's image".. "Likeness" then we are also 3<>ONE.

Body.
Soul
Spirit
Already addressed and explained in the additions made above.

This is likely the verse that you're misinterpreting, to come up with the errant view that we are "tri-part" which, like the "trinity" is found NOWHERE in Scripture:

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

The "soul" in the above verse is referencing the individual soul (spiritual-Being).

The "spirit" in the above verse is referencing the Holy Spirit, which cuts through all of the nonsense (like "trinity" and "tri-part") like a two-edged sword.
 

Behold

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Already addressed and explained in the additions made above.

This is likely the verse that you're misinterpreting, to come up with the errant view that we are "tri-part" which, like the "trinity" is found NOWHERE in Scripture:

God being explained as The Triune Being is all over the Bible.... many verses, clear as a bell.
But a Trinity hater, can't see it, because they refuse to see it.
That's not God's fault.
Its yours......
 
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A Freeman

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God being explained as The Triune Being is all over the Bible.... many verses, clear as a bell.
But a Trinity hater, can't see it, because they refuse to see it.
That's not God's fault.
Its yours......
No, God didn't do that. And neither did Christ (or even Paul). There isn't one single verse that tells anyone that God is a "trinity" or that we are "tri-part", either directly or indirectly.

That is why you offer no Scriptural support for these obviously errant views, instead chalking it all up to being a "trinity hater".

If you would like to discuss this further, then please consider making a separate thread for it rather than continue to derail this one?
 

David in NJ

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Heaven and Hell are destinations that are chosen by a person.

Hebrews 9:27 says that your body has an appointment and afterwards, your spirit that in your body, is going somewhere.

God has offered Jesus as the only Way to Heaven.

Jesus said.. "I am THE WAY to the Father, and no person comes to the Father except through me".

What is "through me"?

It simply means that our sin has separated us from God, and Jesus is offered to deal with it., and once He does, then God and US, are able to become "one".

This is : SALVATiON........and when we TRUST in Christ to deal with our sin, then God will cause the spirit in us to become "born... again".

And that is a : = CHRISTian.
Would you like to communicate this to @Ritajanice
 
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David in NJ

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Already addressed and explained in the additions made above.

This is likely the verse that you're misinterpreting, to come up with the errant view that we are "tri-part" which, like the "trinity" is found NOWHERE in Scripture:

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

The "soul" in the above verse is referencing the individual soul (spiritual-Being).

The "spirit" in the above verse is referencing the Holy Spirit, which cuts through all of the nonsense (like "trinity" and "tri-part") like a two-edged sword.
Did God create anchovies ???

Because i cannot find the word 'anchovies' anywhere in the Bible

Can you prove that specifically 'anchovies' exist - from the Bible???
 

A Freeman

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Did God create anchovies ???

Because i cannot find the word 'anchovies' anywhere in the Bible

Can you prove that specifically 'anchovies' exist - from the Bible???
God, with and through Christ, created all of the fish of the sea, and gave us dominion over them, including how we choose to name them (Gen. 2:19) as you know or should know.

Genesis 1:26-28
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in Our image, and teach him to be like Us: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in His [Own] image, in the Image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and REplenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

That includes both those fish that are on the Diet (with fins and scales) and those that are not.

Leviticus 11:9-10
11:9 These shall ye eat of all that [are] in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which [is] in the waters, they [shall be] an abomination unto you:

So your "red-herring" attempt to derail this thread yet again is noted, as is the illogical false equivalence you've used in your attempt to do so.
 

Davy

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No, Paul was not like that. Paul discusses a priesthood "not in the manner of Aaron," suggesting that the individual mentioned might have been another person outside of that lineage, not levitical (which didn't exist at that time), like Heb. 7 explains.

Paul clearly knew that although the Scriptures don't mention Melchizedek's ancestry, he wasn't an extraterrestrial, as you appear to believe, but simply a different type of priest serving the Most High God, yet not from the tribe of Levi.

Ah... YES! Paul was serious when he revealed that Lord Jesus was the Melchisedec that met Abraham in the Book of Genesis.

You have to keep reading from Hebrews 7 VERSE ONE to Hebrews 7 VERSE 13 & 14, where it is revealed that the Hebrews 7 subject from the START is about Jesus Christ.

But maybe you have a difficult time with the English language, and aren't understanding those verses?

Heb 7:13-14
13
For He of Whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14
For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
KJV


"For He of Whom these things are spoken..." = the One being spoken about so far, i.e., from VERSE ONE of the Hebrews 7 chapter.

"For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda..." = it is clear that Lord Jesus Christ was descended from the tribe of Judah, which in the time of Moses nothing was ordained for Judah about the priesthood. GOT TO KEEP THAT SUBJECT OF VERSE 14 ABOUT THE PRIESTHOOD THAT DIRECTLY TIES BACK TO VERSE 13, of Who these things are spoken.


Sounds maybe like you do not... believe Christ is GOD The Son.
I know many Jews that have a hard time with that, their refusal of Christ as GOD, that wrong belief being an old Jewish tradition.

Christ was King before He was born in the flesh through woman's womb. Christ's origin had no mother, no father, no beginning or end of days, because He is GOD The Son. Hebrews 1 even revealed that ALL THINGS were created through Christ, so how could you miss that?
 
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A Freeman

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Agreed about Christ being Melchizedek in a previous incarnation, when meeting with Abraham.

However, where is the terminology "God the Son" found in Scripture please?

That is obviously very different than "the Son OF God" as the Son is the created offspring of the Father, and the word "of" means "originating from".
 

Davy

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One of the difficulties people have is separating the spiritual-Being/Soul from the human/flesh.

Many are wrongly taught that we are humans that have a soul, which is exactly backwards.

We are the soul/spiritual-Being, temporarily incarnated/incarcerated inside of the human body we see in the mirror.

Prince Michael/Christ (Christ is a title, given to Prince Michael, God's Eldest/Firstborn Son) has been here MANY times.

He absolutely met with Abraham while incarnated inside of Melchizedek, and even told us that during His later incarnation in the body of Jesus:

NAH... that's Jehovah's Witness organization stuff, which is false.

There's nothing written that claim The Christ was incarnated into any other 'flesh' body than Jesus of Nazareth.

And the Archangel Michael IS NOT The Lord Jesus Christ Who is GOD The Son.

Christ has always... been a part of The Godhead of God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit.

The false idea that Christ was 'created', or an 'angel' in the heavenly specie sense, is a Jewish fable pushed by Charles Taze Russel who started the Jehovah's Witness cult.
 

David in NJ

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God, with and through Christ, created all of the fish of the sea, and gave us dominion over them, including how we choose to name them (Gen. 2:19) as you know or should know.

Genesis 1:26-28
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in Our image, and teach him to be like Us: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in His [Own] image, in the Image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and REplenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

That includes both those fish that are on the Diet (with fins and scales) and those that are not.

Leviticus 11:9-10
11:9 These shall ye eat of all that [are] in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which [is] in the waters, they [shall be] an abomination unto you:

So your "red-herring" attempt to derail this thread yet again is noted, as is the illogical false equivalence you've used in your attempt to do so.
God, with and through Christ, created all of the fish of the sea, and gave us dominion over them, including how we choose to name them (Gen. 2:19) as you know or should know.
BINGO

Therefore, anyone who says the word 'trinity' or 'triune' does not exist in scripture is uninformed of Elohim, as Declared in:
a.) Genesis
b.) OT Prophets
c.) Gospel
d.) Apostles writings
e.) Revelation
 
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David in NJ

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Agreed about Christ being Melchizedek in a previous incarnation, when meeting with Abraham.

However, where is the terminology "God the Son" found in Scripture please?

That is obviously very different than "the Son OF God" as the Son is the created offspring of the Father, and the word "of" means "originating from".
Where is 'anchovies' in the Bible ???

jw theology = 'anchovies cannot be found in scripture = therefore anchovies do not exist!!!
 

ElieG12

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Consider the following two teachings of Jesus:

John 8:38a
ἃ ἐγὼ ἑώρακα
__ Things that I've seen
παρὰ τῷ πατρὶ __ by the side of the Father
λαλῶ· __ I speak.


John 5:20

ὁ γὰρ πατὴρ φιλεῖ τὸν υἱὸν __ For the Father has affection for the Son
καὶ πάντα δείκνυσιν
αὐτῷ ἃ αὐτὸς ποιεῖ, __ and shows him all the things he himself does,
καὶ μείζονα τούτων δείξει
αὐτῷ ἔργα, __ and he will show him works greater than these,
ἵνα ὑμεῖς θαυμάζητε. __ so that you may marvel.


While in the first instance he talks about what he saw before being human at the Father's side, while in the second he mentions the things he will see when he returns to Him. He is once more reflecting on the time when he was alongside his Father before his human birth and the moment when he will return to that place, just as before in his pre-existence (as a human).
 
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David in NJ

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Consider the following two teachings of Jesus:

John 8:38a
ἃ ἐγὼ ἑώρακα
__ Things that I've seen
παρὰ τῷ πατρὶ __ by the side of the Father
λαλῶ· __ I speak.


John 5:20
ὁ γὰρ πατὴρ φιλεῖ τὸν υἱὸν __ For the Father has affection for the Son
καὶ πάντα δείκνυσιν
αὐτῷ ἃ αὐτὸς ποιεῖ, __ and shows him all the things he himself does,
καὶ μείζονα τούτων δείξει
αὐτῷ ἔργα, __ and he will show him works greater than these,
ἵνα ὑμεῖς θαυμάζητε. __ so that you may marvel.

While in the first instance he talks about
what he saw before being human at the Father's side, while in the second he mentions the things he will see when he returns to Him. He is once more reflecting on the time when he was alongside his Father before his human birth and the moment when he will return to that place, just as before in his pre-existence (as a human).
Revelation gives us a CLEAR View of this.
 

APAK

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Revelation gives us a CLEAR View of this.
Context is King mate: Jesus is saying he speaks what he has observed by being (immediate past and present, and future) with/alongside/ near/next to his God, his Father as he does/says, and the Pharisees do what their father does (immediate past and present, and future), the evil one. Nothing here about a re-existence experience of Jesus at all. As Jesus spoke these words, Jesus spirit and mind resided with the Spirit of his Father of course, in power. Jesus became empowered by his Father's spirit.

(Joh 8:37) I know that you are Abraham's seed. Yet you seek to kill me, because my word finds no place in you.

(Joh 8:38) I speak the things which I have seen with my Father, and you also do the things which you heard from your father.

(Joh 8:39) They answered and said to him: Our father is Abraham. Jesus said to them: If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

Imaginations can get the best of us at times....
 

David in NJ

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Context is King mate: Jesus is saying he speaks what he has observed by being (immediate past and present, and future) with/alongside/ near/next to his God, his Father as he does/says, and the Pharisees do what their father does (immediate past and present, and future), the evil one. Nothing here about a re-existence experience of Jesus at all. As Jesus spoke these words, Jesus spirit and mind resided with the Spirit of his Father of course, in power. Jesus became empowered by his Father's spirit.

(Joh 8:37) I know that you are Abraham's seed. Yet you seek to kill me, because my word finds no place in you.

(Joh 8:38) I speak the things which I have seen with my Father, and you also do the things which you heard from your father.

(Joh 8:39) They answered and said to him: Our father is Abraham. Jesus said to them: If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

Imaginations can get the best of us at times....
Good Afternoon,

The body prepared for the Word that was Elohim did not have Eternal Pre-Existence with Elohim FATHER

Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

There are TWO Individuals stated here.
Who is ME and who is YOU in this passage of scripture???
 

APAK

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Good Afternoon,

The body prepared for the Word that was Elohim did not have Eternal Pre-Existence with Elohim FATHER

Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

There are TWO Individuals stated here.
Who is ME and who is YOU in this passage of scripture???
Ok David, again what has all this to do with the price of tea in China.

I was responding to John 8:37-39. And you responded to...what again?! What ARE you talking about, please clue me in if you want. Maybe not, because you might just jump into another subject without any warning....
 

David in NJ

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Ok David, again what has all this to do with the price of tea in China.

I was responding to John 8:37-39. And you responded to...what again?! What ARE you talking about, please clue me in if you want. Maybe not, because you might just jump into another subject without any warning....
Let's PLEASE God Today = together

Simple grade school question from Hebrews 10:5-7

There are TWO Individuals stated here.
Who is ME and who is YOU in this passage of scripture???

PS - Same subject as from John chapter 8
 

APAK

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Let's PLEASE God Today = together

Simple grade school question from Hebrews 10:5-7

There are TWO Individuals stated here.
Who is ME and who is YOU in this passage of scripture???

PS - Same subject as from John chapter 8
Elementary dear Watson...

In Hebrews 10:5-7, the passage quotes Psalm 40:6-8, where “Me” refers to Jesus Christ, and “You” refers to God the Father.

The verse says:

“For you did not desire sacrifice and offering, but you prepared a body for me.”

Here, “Me” (Greek: ἐμέ, eme) refers to Jesus Christ, who is speaking. He is saying that God the Father did not desire animal sacrifices and offerings, but instead prepared a human body for Him (Jesus) to inhabit. i.e. Jesus the human being was born to die as the ultimate sacrifice on the Cross.

The phrase “you prepared a body for me” emphasizes God’s initiative in sending/creating Jesus, the Son, who had to be a human being as the 2nd Adam . This is a central theme in Hebrews, highlighting Jesus’ unique role as the high priest and mediator between God and humanity.

In this context, “You” (Greek: σοί, soi) refers to God the Father, who is addressed by Jesus. Jesus is acknowledging God’s sovereignty and plan, which included creating and then preparing a human body for Him to dwell among humanity.
 

David in NJ

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Elementary dear Watson...

In Hebrews 10:5-7, the passage quotes Psalm 40:6-8, where “Me” refers to Jesus Christ, and “You” refers to God the Father.

The verse says:

“For you did not desire sacrifice and offering, but you prepared a body for me.”

Here, “Me” (Greek: ἐμέ, eme) refers to Jesus Christ, who is speaking. He is saying that God the Father did not desire animal sacrifices and offerings, but instead prepared a human body for Him (Jesus) to inhabit. i.e. Jesus the human being was born to die as the ultimate sacrifice on the Cross.

The phrase “you prepared a body for me” emphasizes God’s initiative in sending/creating Jesus, the Son, who had to be a human being as the 2nd Adam . This is a central theme in Hebrews, highlighting Jesus’ unique role as the high priest and mediator between God and humanity.

In this context, “You” (Greek: σοί, soi) refers to God the Father, who is addressed by Jesus. Jesus is acknowledging God’s sovereignty and plan, which included creating and then preparing a human body for Him to dwell among humanity.
ABSOLUTELY TRUE - EXCEPT - for this which you said and PLEASE know i am NOT against you but just being SPECIFIC to the Scriptures

The phrase “you prepared a body for me” emphasizes God’s initiative in sending/creating Jesus, the Son, who had to be a human being as the 2nd Adam .

In Hebrews 10:5-7 it is very SPECIFIC and EXACT that ONLY a body was prepared.

There does not exist in all of scripture a single verse that says: Jesus was created or the Son was created or the Word was created

If you think you can find one - i'll buy you DINNER
 
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