MA2444
Well-Known Member
AFAIK, Enoch is not scripture now but it used to be. Scripture quotes from Enoch in a couple places. So take your pick!
I don't know if God sees it as scripture or not, do you?
Did ANYONE In Scripture (Including Jesus), Claim Jesus IS God?
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AFAIK, Enoch is not scripture now but it used to be. Scripture quotes from Enoch in a couple places. So take your pick!
I don't know if God sees it as scripture or not, do you?
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Wrangler said:
Both. You can post and it will make some people upset.
Enoch is not Scripture, right?
It might be a good topic to explore. Where did it come from? Of what value?
[
Both. You can post and it will make some people upset.
Enoch is not Scripture, right?
The Book of Enoch was not chosen to be part of our canon of scriptures.
It might be a good topic to explore. Where did it come from? Of what value?
[
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
In our conversation this Day, you SEE how i agreed with you in every place where it AGREES with the Word of God.
Therefore, we must come to a conclusion of TRUTH by which people from all nations can be SAVED.
Conclusion from the Holy Spirit
Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:
TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.
Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Hello @David in NJ,
I don't understand what was wrong with anything that I shared in the first place. People may disagree with this, but sometimes those mentioning of saved, meant from the coming of wrath upon the nation back in the day. Everyone on earth has already be saved from their sins, by and through the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Yeshua, whom was risen by the Holy Spirit of Yahavah. Whether or not people look to them, is upon themselves. As I shared earlier "God in Christ reconciled the world unto himself." Do people believe that is true today? Most do not, they believe that people still need to be preached too. The World has been reconciled unto Yahavah, and restored making all things new in christ, today we live in the new heavens and new earth, which is under the governance of Yahavah, whom is no longer mad at the world. All the nations have been blessed, on behalf of the Lord Yeshua.
I don't understand what was wrong with anything that I shared in the first place. People may disagree with this, but sometimes those mentioning of saved, meant from the coming of wrath upon the nation back in the day. Everyone on earth has already be saved from their sins, by and through the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Yeshua, whom was risen by the Holy Spirit of Yahavah. Whether or not people look to them, is upon themselves. As I shared earlier "God in Christ reconciled the world unto himself." Do people believe that is true today? Most do not, they believe that people still need to be preached too. The World has been reconciled unto Yahavah, and restored making all things new in christ, today we live in the new heavens and new earth, which is under the governance of Yahavah, whom is no longer mad at the world. All the nations have been blessed, on behalf of the Lord Yeshua.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Here is one statement you said that is un-Truth/falsehood/deception: "Everyone on earth has already be saved from their sins,"
Your statement can be categorized under 'antichrist' because it ges directly against the words of CHRIST
JESUS says this to us Today:
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God - John 3:19
@MatthewG says: "people still need to be preached too."
Question: Is preaching the Gospel to all nations required for Salvation???
Hello @David in NJ,
Everyone has been saved from their sins already. It's just you don't believe that. It's not because I'm some false prophet or teacher. I'm a heretic to most but that is beside the point. Whether they look faithfully towards God, or seek to know Jesus more is totally a choice on themselves. We done went through how God talks to people.
Question: Is preaching the Gospel to all nations required for Salvation???
Not anymore because Paul already did that. You may believe that it does need to be preached to all the world in order for Jesus to come back to earth, or something... I do not believe in that type of theology, or eschatology. I believe in fulfillment eschatology.
Everyone has been saved from their sins already. It's just you don't believe that. It's not because I'm some false prophet or teacher. I'm a heretic to most but that is beside the point. Whether they look faithfully towards God, or seek to know Jesus more is totally a choice on themselves. We done went through how God talks to people.
Question: Is preaching the Gospel to all nations required for Salvation???
Not anymore because Paul already did that. You may believe that it does need to be preached to all the world in order for Jesus to come back to earth, or something... I do not believe in that type of theology, or eschatology. I believe in fulfillment eschatology.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Oy vey!
It’s my understanding to be a total and complete fake, in terms of not be authored by its pre-Noah namesake. At best, it is apocrypha.
This begs the question of why you would rely on something other than Scripture?
Like all other words, ‘Scripture’ means something and doesn’t mean other things.
What does AFAIK mean?
Definitive.
?
It’s my understanding to be a total and complete fake, in terms of not be authored by its pre-Noah namesake. At best, it is apocrypha.
This begs the question of why you would rely on something other than Scripture?
Yes, 100%. Words have meaning. There s not a metaphysical ‘Scripture’ only known to Platonic God and his ideal forms.
Like all other words, ‘Scripture’ means something and doesn’t mean other things.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The FATHER, the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT says you are speaking falsehood!!! Christ never told you to do this MatthewG
It is essential you believe God's words and NEVER contradict Him.
The Word of God says: "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am HE you will die in your sins.”" -
Again you either ignorantly or willfully DENY the Truth.
the LORD Jesus Christ Says: "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Hello @David in NJ,
I believe the end of that age did come. It's just you have a different perspective, and that is totally fine with me. Thank you for the conversation. I am thankful to have gotten to talk to it about with you. Being dogmatic in such a way, that I am wrong has no real effect on me, because I am use to being in the wrong with people when it conflicts with their already held views. Thank you! And I love you.
I believe the end of that age did come. It's just you have a different perspective, and that is totally fine with me. Thank you for the conversation. I am thankful to have gotten to talk to it about with you. Being dogmatic in such a way, that I am wrong has no real effect on me, because I am use to being in the wrong with people when it conflicts with their already held views. Thank you! And I love you.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
JESUS has the TRUE Perspective from ABOVE.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
The end has not yet come, therefore the Gospel continues to be preached.
Be careful MatthewG, it is a serious sin for anyone to add to God's words or take away from them.
Preaching a false gospel will only lead to condemnation - the LOVE of God does not want you under the power of sin.
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervertthe gospel of Christ.
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
For God so loved the world HE sent His only begotten SON = LISTEN to HIM
Hello @David in NJ,
I hear you, buddy. You are more than welcome to be free in your beliefs. I am not here to condemn you, nor turn you away from your own beliefs. It's all about faith and love, in the end. Remember, what also Jesus had taught concerning judging others. I have not turned away from Yahavah, nor the Lord Yeshua whom is my savior. It would be different if I declared I have no faith in Jesus at all, which would be untrue. Thank you for your judgments, and all the best to you. Love to you and your family*.
I hear you, buddy. You are more than welcome to be free in your beliefs. I am not here to condemn you, nor turn you away from your own beliefs. It's all about faith and love, in the end. Remember, what also Jesus had taught concerning judging others. I have not turned away from Yahavah, nor the Lord Yeshua whom is my savior. It would be different if I declared I have no faith in Jesus at all, which would be untrue. Thank you for your judgments, and all the best to you. Love to you and your family*.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Not judging you MatthewG, but i am sharing the exact words of God with you that enables us to escape sin.
I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily.
Brother @Johann and @amigo de christo and @Scott Downey are also ministers of the Gospel
and there are others on here who preach the undefiled Gospel of Truth
MA2444
Well-Known Member
No it isn't canon. But it is useful. It was lost for thousands of years and then rediscovered in our time. In the the 50's I think. Maybe it was during the time it was lost they decided it wasn't canon? I'm not sure.
It's nothing to be afraid of. It's just another book, but what's interesting to me is it touches on quite a few bible stories that are in canon except it also adds more details to the same stories that isn't included in the bible stories. Plus any old book which gives us further insight into the times, the customs and the language of those bible times can't be all bad. It doesn't contradict the scriptures anywhere either.
You sound like you have a negative stance towards Enoch? What is it about it that you don't agree with or don't like?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Enoch walked with God and could not be found for God took him.
Enoch had this testimony = "he pleased God"
The only other person to have that approval from God is the Lord Jesus Christ
JESUS quoted from of Enoch.
That is THREE witness who confirm the authenticity and spiritual insight given to Enoch directly from the LORD.
Here is a fourth - Jude
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying,
“Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
@Wrangler - Who is the "Lord" that comes with thousands of thousands of saints???
Exactly Who was Enoch speaking of???
The Lord of hosts is with us;
The God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah
Come, behold the works of the Lord,
Who has made desolations in the earth.
He makes wars cease to the end of the earth;
He breaks the bow and cuts the spear in two;
He burns the chariot in the fire.
Be still, and know that I am God;
I will be exalted among the nations,
I will be exalted in the earth!
The Lord of hosts is with us;
The God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah
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MA2444
Well-Known Member
As far as I know...
Ok. And your point?
What makes you think I rely on it? Rely on it for what? I'm not suggesting that it be accepted as scripture. I have read the whole book and I don't see where it contradicts scripture anywhere.
Maybe I didn't quote scripture from it with chapter and verse like you wanted me too...because I don't view it as scripture? Could that be?
Why would I rely on something other than scripture? That's a good question, why would I? OTOH (On the other hand, lol), why I would I ever read Any other book than the scriptures? Well, I dunno, I do read other books beside the scriptures some of them are good books.
Hey does this mean that you will never crack open a book that isnt the Bible in your life?
Yes or no Bro, be honest!
You don't have to be frightened of the book of Enoch man, lol.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
So what is that you're saying here? Are you saying that the book of Enoch is evil book that should be avoided?
I have the Book of Jubilees too. Should I trash that book?
Have you read the Book of Enoch? Or do base your opinions on what others have said?
Hello @David in NJ,
I believe Jesus already returned and the end of the age had come, my choice is to believe the message of Jesus, and what has been foretold. All nations have been blessed already, whether or not you accept this truth is between you and God. The gospel of Jesus, involved not only his death, burial, and resurrection but also his coming back within a period of time in the generation. It’s okay if you believe that this has not been fulfilled yet; as there was people in that day being told to wait, watch and see. But I digress this not even what the topic is about; therefore perhaps we best just stick to the topic.
I love you, and all my brothers and sisters in the Lord, and that is what is most important, abiding in the Messiah, as he is the vine and God is the vinedresser. I’m currently going through the gospels and the New Testament in a 3 month run, day by day a few chapters a day. Just to go back through them, I’m no stranger to anything you are stating; but Jesus had paid for and taken care of all the sins of the world already; regardless if people believe that or not.
I’m passionate about these things there is no denying it, but alas I digress; regardless if you suggest I have some different gospel or not it’s best to just stick to the topic after all, this is not a thread concerning these matters and the last thing I need is another infraction on my account and get permanently banned.
I don’t wanna be one of the cool peoples personally, I wanna be the loser, and Jesus be the winner. And have happiness and contentment with Yahavah through him, despite the difficulties.
I trust God and the promises of Jesus simply over what man can try to tell me. I try to please him, not people.
Romans 8:28
“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”
Romans 8:28 KJV
Love ya and all the best.
Nothing wrong with it @MA2444.As far as I know...
Ok. And your point?
What makes you think I rely on it? Rely on it for what? I'm not suggesting that it be accepted as scripture. I have read the whole book and I don't see where it contradicts scripture anywhere.
Maybe I didn't quote scripture from it with chapter and verse like you wanted me too...because I don't view it as scripture? Could that be?
Why would I rely on something other than scripture? That's a good question, why would I? OTOH (On the other hand, lol), why I would I ever read Any other book than the scriptures? Well, I dunno, I do read other books beside the scriptures some of them are good books.
Hey does this mean that you will never crack open a book that isnt the Bible in your life?
Yes or no Bro, be honest!
You don't have to be frightened of the book of Enoch man, lol.
I read Jewish customs and cultures and not afraid to crack open good, exegetical commentaries-they all do-to help me gain a deeper understanding on a particular verse.
J.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
I get it now. You knew that came from the book of Enoch and were drawing me into it so that you....?? Could rant about the book of Enoch?
If you knew it came from Enoch then go ahead and tell me what is is about it and where and what's wrong with it? Does it contradict scripture? (No) Which one? Ok so you drew me into it so make your case. I'll talk to you about it.
I never put Enoch forth as scripture. So you can't say that....what'choo got? Lol.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Hello @David in NJ,
I believe Jesus already returned and the end of the age had come, my choice is to believe the message of Jesus, and what has been foretold. All nations have been blessed already, whether or not you accept this truth is between you and God. The gospel of Jesus, involved not only his death, burial, and resurrection but also his coming back within a period of time in the generation. It’s okay if you believe that this has not been fulfilled yet; as there was people in that day being told to wait, watch and see. But I digress this not even what the topic is about; therefore perhaps we best just stick to the topic.
I love you, and all my brothers and sisters in the Lord, and that is what is most important, abiding in the Messiah, as he is the vine and God is the vinedresser. I’m currently going through the gospels and the New Testament in a 3 month run, day by day a few chapters a day. Just to go back through them, I’m no stranger to anything you are stating; but Jesus had paid for and taken care of all the sins of the world already; regardless if people believe that or not.
I’m passionate about these things there is no denying it, but alas I digress; regardless if you suggest I have some different gospel or not it’s best to just stick to the topic after all, this is not a thread concerning these matters and the last thing I need is another infraction on my account and get permanently banned.
I don’t wanna be one of the cool peoples personally, I wanna be the loser, and Jesus be the winner. And have happiness and contentment with Yahavah through him, despite the difficulties.
I trust God and the promises of Jesus simply over what man can try to tell me. I try to please him, not people.
Romans 8:28
“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”
Romans 8:28 KJV
Love ya and all the best.
the Lord Jesus Christ never said that HE has come back
JESUS said that the End of this Age is when HE comes back and Resurrects all the saints who have died in HIM.
We are WARNED by JESUS and the Apostles that there will be those who preach EXACTLY what you are saying and that it is LIE.
Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers.
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.
And their message will spread like cancer.
Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past;
and they overthrow the faith of some.
Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and,
“Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
@MatthewG the outcome of those who preach a false gospel by saying Jesus has already returned will be Judgment unto death.
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