I am now focusing on Revelation 16 and would like to ask everyone if these 7 bowls are literal or symbolic. And I mean that of course God is going to destroy everything and make everything new, but at the time of the end of chapter 16, is everything destroyed or to be destroyed as He describes in chapter 16.
Revelation 16
- Thread starter CTK
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2014
- 11,955
- 3,742
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
The plagues in Revelation 16:1-11 are literal and will be brought by the (Two Witnesses) seen in Revelation Chapter 11
The Vials & Trumps are parallel teachings in same events, seen below are the words in bold red "It Is Done" this represents (The End)
Revelation 16:17KJV
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Galgal
Member
16:2 The first angel poured out the vial of wrath on religion, and spiritual wounds appeared among the believers, and evil came upon those who lie for their own benefit and steal surplus value, and who worship the authorities of this world.
16:3 The second angel poured out his vial on the unbelieving world, and everything there became dead, soulless, disgusting to those who enjoy the benefits of this world, and everyone in the world lost all connection with God.
16:4 The third angel poured out his vial on the currents of all religions and on the spiritual sources of all their teachings, and everything began to testify to the sin of the participants in these religions.
...
16:8 The fourth angel poured out his vial on the image of the Messiah-king, and the teaching of Christ began to burn everyone in religions,
16:9 And the rebuke from Christ became unbearable for religious people, and they began to blaspheme the name of God, from whom these sufferings were for them, and they did not come to their senses to fulfill the word of God and allow the elect to return to the holy land, and return to Israel the lands that God bequeathed to him.
16:10 The fifth angel poured out his vial upon Wall Street and the financial centers of this world, and the kingdom of Prosperity became dark, and those living in the civilization of Prosperity began to bite their languages in pain.
16:11 And they blasphemed God, who appeared in the Third Temple in Israel, and by this appearance caused all of them suffering, and they did not repent of their service to mammon (their property).
16:12 The sixth angel poured out the vial of wrath on Judaism, and Judaism dried up, could no longer resist the Third Temple and the people who entered the eastern gate of the Temple in the name of Jesus Christ, Judaism recognized Jesus as the Messiah of Israel and allowed the repatriation of 5 wise virgins, from whom the lost tribes of Israel will be restored.
16:13 John saw three unclean spirits coming out of the mouth of the devil, out of the mouth of the beast of civilization, out of the mouth of the false Jesus in Christianity: the toad of lust for power, the toad of lust for wealth, and the toad of lust for glory.
16:14 These are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the leaders of all denominations of Christianity to draw them into a battle for Prosperity, where the shame of such Christians will be revealed.
16:15 God will reveal himself unexpectedly, happy is he who is awake and does righteous deeds and deeds of mercy, so that the shame of his inner aspirations is not revealed to the whole world.
16:16 And he gathered them together to a place called "Mountain of Freebies."
16:17 The seventh angel poured out his vial on the socio-political atmosphere of this world and said, "It is finished!"
And the men that are received shall see it, who have not tasted death from their birth: and the heart of the inhabitants shall be changed, and turned into another meaning. (2 Esdras 6:26)
16:18 And significant events took place in the world, and everyone heard the news of these events, and everyone understood the meaning of these events. And there was a great shock for all people on earth, such a shock humanity had never experienced!
16:19 The New Jerusalem appeared in three places simultaneously: (1) in historical Jerusalem, (2) in the Third Temple in the Judean Desert, (3) in the city of Yahweh Shammah near present-day Sderot. And the pagan religions fell, and the Babylon of the Christian denominations was declared publicly to receive the full wrath of God.
16:20 And every religious platform fled: pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, post-tribulation and any others. And there were no more religious teachings.
16:21 And a hail of talented words fell from heaven on the religious people, and all the participants in religions blasphemed God for these accusations, because these accusations caused them mortal suffering.
I think first go back Revelation 15, for the scene in heaven of how the 7 angels are given the 7 vials full of the wrath of God.
Revelation 15:
6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
So one of the four beasts before the throne of God gives each of the 7 angels a vial of God's wrath.
What is in the vial, imo, is a spiritual substance.
Revelation 16:
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
So the seven angels leave heaven, and circle the earth....each pouring out the spiritual substance in the vials on the earth.... in order, i.e. the first angel, then the second angel, then the third angel.....
One of the angels, however, the fourth angel, is directed to pour out his vial on the sun. That will affect the inhabitants of the earth, scorching men with fire of the sun, heat. Revelation 16:8-9.
So, CTK, as to your question....if these 7 bowls are literal or symbolic....the plagues are literal. But the substance in the vials appears to be spiritual... that enacts the plague results. Personally, I would not call the spiritual substance "symbolic". But not some sort of known potion either.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The destruction to the earth will be massive. But not such that nothing will be left, as Jesus will return to end the great tribulation, and rescue the great tribulation saints, and execute judgement on the wicked who will have persecuted the saints.
Keraz
Well-Known Member
- Jun 20, 2018
- 6,153
- 1,065
- 113
- 83
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- New Zealand
The Seven Bowls describe literal things; painful sores, the sea and rivers turned [like] blood, the sun scorching people and thick darkness.
Then the 6th and 7th Bowls tell us how the armies will be gathered at Armageddon and be destroyed there by Jesus at His Return. Rev 19:17-21
Saying they won't happen, have happened, or are just symbolic Spiritual things, is meaningless nonsense. Plus a serious messing around with the Book of Revelation.
Historical records for the last century confirms for us that the seventh Bowl Judgement has already happened, and the 9/11 event has confirmed that the signs and wonders that were seen all around the world on that day will begin to draw the kings of the earth to assemble at Armageddon to be judged by God/Jesus. It is my view that the kings will be judged at Armageddon around the year 2044 AD.
To understand the order of the Bowl Judgements we need to understand that John recorded the bowl judgements in the order that he was shown them as He walked backwards in time from the first Bowl judgement towards the seventh Bowl judgement otherwise Rev 16 does not make any sense.
Oh well, I know that I am not messing with the Bowl judgements like others are.
Shalom
Jay, what you wrote does not make any sense.
None of the bowl (vials) plagues of God's wrath have been fulfilled yet.
That just happens to be your own private opinion.
It is my opinion that I can show that the Seventh Bowl judgement happened during the 20 century and that the Sixth Bol judgement was partially fulfilled on 2001/9/11 when three planes crashed into three buildings that was seen live around the world to begin drawing the kings of the earth to assemble at Armageddon.
Douggg much of what you write and claim in your posts and diagrams do not make much sense at all. I also read that there are other members who also have trouble with your claims.
Goodbye
The more I look at these bowl judgements, the more I
The more I review these bowl judgements, the more I think they are also symbolic.... Take a look at the first bowl judgement...16:1-2, and this is the beginning of the harm to those who are unbelievers. Why the need to continue in a series of progressive harm to them? As each of the bowls are symbolically sent out, they indeed have a intense effect on them but not physical.... and it gives him the opportunity to repent and avoid the next coming bowl judgements. God is not concerned with physically harming anyone... this is a spiritual battle and He is only interested in inflicting these bowl judgements as a last attempt for their salvation.
Jay, 911 was over 23 year ago. That event has nothing to do with drawing the kings of the earth to assemble their armies at Armageddon.
Plus, you are saying in your opinion that Armageddon will happen in 2044 - over 43 years after the 2011/9/11 event.
Jay, you make zero sense.
Last edited:
God's wrath in the vials is intended to inflict death, pain, suffering on the wicked men of the world who will be persecuting the saints of God.... to pressure the wicked to stop.
Near the end of the great tribulation, the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven - Jesus with sickle in hand. His intentions obvious... as the reaction of the wicked in Revelation 6:17 will say....
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Last edited:
TribulationSigns
Well-Known Member
- May 1, 2023
- 1,473
- 395
- 83
- 55
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Symbolic, of course. But I want to explain why there are a great misunderstanding of many regarding the 7 vials of Judgment.
For example, There is a very popular misconception in theology, that the seven vials represent things happening in stages at different times, one taking place after the other. The same misconception that some have that the seven churches of Asia represent seven different periods that run one after the other. I don't believe that. God often uses the number seven to signify "completeness," rather than to declare something is seven particular, different things. For example the Seven Spirits of God. There is not seven spirits of God, there is one Spirit of God, but the number 7 signifies completeness in its ministry all over the world. Why does the Living Creatures in the midst of the throne have 7 eyes and 7 horns? Why are there 7 seals on the book in Revelation? Why are there 7 lamps of fire burning before the throne? Why are there 7 stars in the right hand of Christ? And so on and so forth, is because the number 7 signifies the completeness of whatever is in view. Look at the 7 stars in Christ's hand signified the completeness of His messengers. Likewise, the 7 vials signify the completeness of God's final judgment poured out on the earth, because of the prayers of the saints.
Revelation 21:9
- "And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife."
These vials were full of the seven last plagues, or the seven [eschatos] plagues, and that is why there were seven of them, to signify completeness--not to show that seven different events would take place at seven different times, taking place one after the other. We have to keep in mind, this is a revealing, a revelation, or more correctly put a group of revelations in symbolic imagery showing the same things (God's magnificent salvation and judgment program) over and over again. God says something in one chapter, and will say the exact same thing, with different symbolic imagery in another chapter. The Book of Revelation is in no way chronological in its order of things revealed in imagery. For example, you read about Christ being in the church in Revelation 2, the sealing of Israel ends in Revelation 7, and Christ is born in Revelation 12 , see? Not in order!
I believe that these seven vials being poured out run concurrently. In other words, we are receiving in revelations, seven portraits of the same event, each revealing a different aspect of what will be taking place. Much like having seven portraits of the Revolutionary war, each showing a different aspect of that one same war, by a different picture! Or as Christ is seen as the Vine in one place to highlight one thing, the Lamb of God in another place to highlight another, and the Holy Temple to highlight still something else. It's not three separate prophesies of Christ, it's simply using different imagery to illustrate Him as the true Israel (Vine), that He is the Sacrifice (Lamb), and that He is House of God (Temple) in whom we dwell. In this same way these seven vials are numbered to seven to signify "completion" (as the 7 churches or angels or spirits, etc.), while these judgment plagues are one judgment, the portraits concurrent. They are all one event. The judgment of the unfaithful New Testament congregation!
Now let take a look at the the pains and sores of Revelation 16:11 poured out in the 5th vial. You can see the same sores poured out in the first vial. Or as the 3rd vial poured out made the waters and rivers turn to blood, and the 2nd vial poured out on the sea had already made it turn to blood. Did God do the seas first and then go to the rivers and fountains? Not at all, it's the same event of bringing death, but highlighting different aspects of this judgment. The plagues are operating simultaneously upon the earth and they are spoken of as seven to instruct us of the completeness of God's wrath upon them. This is the end time judgment wherein every stone of the Temple (unfaithful New Testament congregation) will be thrown down, the kingdom become void of life of light, and this signified by blood and darkness, as there is now no healing for the torment of spiritual pain and sores. The reason is because the whole Elect house of Israel has been sealed, the testimony of the two witnesses is finished and the day has come when no man can work. There is no repentence by them for their abominations afterward and they continue to blasphemy because the Lord has cut them off! This is what the judgment of the whore in Revelation 16 is all about! Remember, the judgment must take place in God's house (church) right now BEFORE the judgment of the world at the Second Coming.
Selah
Douggg, that is your private opinion. Just because you cannot make any sense of what I have posted, that does not make me wrong.
In any case, Armageddon cannot happen until the third and the fourth ages of the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers upon their children and the children's children has happened as prophesised in Exodus 20:4-6 and that will not happen until the year 2044 AD has passed.
Now since Isaac was born at the beginning of the year 2052 BC and since four ages must pass before God will hear from heaven the cries of the Israelites and begin gathering the Israelites to Himself, and as the Apostle Paul declared in Romans 11:25b-26 it is not until the fulness with respect to time of the Gentiles trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly Hosts for 2,300 years is completed that after this prophesised time period that all of Israel will be saved.
Now if Paul was right and, as you believe that the trampling of the temple and God's earthly hosts happened around 160-170 BC, for 2,300 days then why was not all of Israel saved after the completion of the 2,300 days as you are claiming. Why was Israel scattered to the four corners of the earth in 70 AD and has remained scattered up and until this present time without God commencing to gather Israel back to Himself?
Dougggg, your logic makes no sense at all with respect to God's prophetic words. IT IS YOU WHO DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL.
Goodbye
Last edited:
I could not agree with you more! I see the same method. There is only One God, but He reveals Himself in 3 ways in chapter 1. There is only 1 church but it breaks it apart into 7 different facets to show us how each weakness or failure on our part contributes to our possible lost of salvation and what we need to fix for each. There is only 1 little horn (Daniel 7) who is also the sea beast but God reveals how he attacks God and His people in 4 ways (horsemen). There is only 1 trumpet sound but, like the churches, He breaks His warnings into 7 different views each more progressive that the other to reveal how each warning is more dangerous to our salvation. Same for the bowls, as each bowl is released they reveal a different reason for destruction, yet, He is still willing to show us that there still is mercy until the very last bowl. However, this is just His method of explaining everything to us as if they were to take place in a chronological fashion- but they don’t and will not.
Having said that, God is also quite able to place these things in a certain order that do match our literal history. For example, the 7 churches reflect His 1 church and during any of the church periods an individual can be found to be guilty of any one or more of the 7 church weaknesses. But, the 7 still reflect the literal periods in our history.
The weakness's in the church of Thyatira match the general weakness’s of the church during the time of the papacy. Same for the church in Ephesus. If you want to prove that, try taking any one on the church’s and rearrange the order. For example, take the church of Laodecia and move it to the place of Pergamum or in the order where Ephesus is… it will never work. So God is indeed able to unpack the church into its 7 facets to teach us each type of failure and at the same time, ensure that our actual history of churches reflect that same weakness. Absolutely amazing!!!!!!
Further, I found that if you lay out the 7 churches from left to right according to a time line and then place the 4 horsemen (papal system) over them or beside ls them and you place the first horseman at the same time along that timeline when the papacy came to power, they match up perfectly. In other words, the different methods used by the papacy over the past 1500 years match to the types of destructive acts they would do for each of the horsemen. Again, amazing! The white horse without a bow is the beginning of the papacy and he uses cunning, deception, etc., to gain power. This will continue until the next church period (~800AD) when he will use the destructive powers mentioned in the red horse… The relationships are amazing!
So, I will continue on with 16 and hopefully continue to be able to interpret it symbolically. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
TrevorHL
Member
Greetings CTK,
Revelation 16:12–16 (KJV): 12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
v12: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
This speaks of the drying up of the Ottoman Empire, especially the removal of the Ottoman's from the Holy Land in 1917. This allowed a greater return of the Jews to the Holy Land and this allowed the developments that have lead and will lead to the establishment of the Kingdom of God to be established in Jerusalem Isaiah 2:1-4.
v13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. v14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
This is the development of ideas and warlike attributes that will lead the nations to come to Jerusalem to battle, firstly against Israel and ultimately against Christ. I consider the three centres of this call to be Istanbul - a military power (when Russia takes over this city and territory), the Papacy - a religious power, and Europe centred say in France and Germany - a political and military power.
v15: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
This is a warning to the household of faith. It is at this critical time, when the nations are preparing for war, that Jesus returns to his household, and he then judges them and grants immortality to the faithful.
v16: And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Despite the nations' grand plans, it is Christ that ultimately brings the nations to the Battle of Armageddon, and this will result in a major overthrow of their armies, and Jesus will then start to set up the Kingdom in Israel, by first converting a significant remnant of natural Israel.
Kind regards
Trevor
I would like to give a brief overview of the 6th Vial or Bowl, as I consider that this is the present time period, and thus relevant to us.
Revelation 16:12–16 (KJV): 12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
v12: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
This speaks of the drying up of the Ottoman Empire, especially the removal of the Ottoman's from the Holy Land in 1917. This allowed a greater return of the Jews to the Holy Land and this allowed the developments that have lead and will lead to the establishment of the Kingdom of God to be established in Jerusalem Isaiah 2:1-4.
v13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. v14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
This is the development of ideas and warlike attributes that will lead the nations to come to Jerusalem to battle, firstly against Israel and ultimately against Christ. I consider the three centres of this call to be Istanbul - a military power (when Russia takes over this city and territory), the Papacy - a religious power, and Europe centred say in France and Germany - a political and military power.
v15: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
This is a warning to the household of faith. It is at this critical time, when the nations are preparing for war, that Jesus returns to his household, and he then judges them and grants immortality to the faithful.
v16: And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Despite the nations' grand plans, it is Christ that ultimately brings the nations to the Battle of Armageddon, and this will result in a major overthrow of their armies, and Jesus will then start to set up the Kingdom in Israel, by first converting a significant remnant of natural Israel.
Kind regards
Trevor
Last edited:
Galgal
Member
Progressive harm was needed against Pharaoh and the Egyptians, so that they would let the people of God go to the land of the covenant. Now this progressive harm will be against this world and against the religions of this world, so that Israel would let in, and the nations would drive out, the "five wise virgins", in whose entrails the Hebrews from the lost tribes of Israel are hidden.
Jay, you are getting my view as being mixed up with someone else's view.
I never said that the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 have been fulfilled.
I show the 2300 days on my charts as still be unfulfilled.
I am so sorry, that I came to that understanding but your charts are so many for the same time period that they have become confusing and difficult to understand because of your mismatching of the different prophecies to match your posting whims at the time of your publishing them in all of the various threads that you have inserted your "charts/diagrams," into.
Goodbye
It’s only Babylon the great (apostate Israel) that is destroyed in this battle by Rome
The bowels are symbolic of judgement.
Revelation shows the fulfilment of Babylon the great through the prophecy of God in
Leviticus 26:18
“‘If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over.
The 7 seals,7 bowls, 7 thunders and the 7 trumpets
Last edited:
Similar threads
