THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Johann

Guest
▪ 1975: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);

▪ 1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin.

(In the following paragraph, bold type, italics, and underlining are mine.)

Some use the term "divine." [Divine simply means “of God”, or “from God”; it doesn’t mean God](1) Trinitarian Moffatt's highly acclaimed New Translation of the Bible and (2) trinitarian Smith-Goodspeed's An American Translation both say that the Word "was divine." The translations by (3) Boehmer, (4) Stage, and (5) Menge all say the Word was "of divine being." (6) Trinitarian & highly acclaimed scholar John J. McKenzie, S. J., writes in his Dictionary of the Bible: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated `the word was with the God (equals the Father), and the word was a divine being.'" - p. 317, Macmillan Publishing Co., Inc., 1965, published with Catholic Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur.
I cannot agree with this @TheHC.

Theological Implications of the Suggested Translations

The translations cited (e.g., "a god," "divine," or "godlike") diminish the deity of the Logos (Word), suggesting something less than full participation in the essence of God.

Misinterpretation of "Divine":

The term "divine" is ambiguous in English and can imply a quality or attribute rather than essence. However, in the context of John 1:1, the anarthrous Theos emphasizes qualitative identity rather than mere attribute.

If the Word were merely "a divine being," it introduces polytheism, which is inconsistent with both Johannine monotheism (John 17:3) and the broader biblical witness.

2. Grammatical Refutation of "a god"

The phrase καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος employs precise Greek syntax to express the deity of the Word without collapsing the distinction between the Father and the Son.

a. Predicate Nominative Syntax:
The noun Θεὸς (God) appears without the definite article, preceding the verb (ἦν). According to Colwell’s Rule, a predicate nominative preceding the verb tends to be qualitative or definite, not indefinite.

Rendering Θεὸς as "a god" ignores this rule and imposes an English-centric misunderstanding of Greek grammar.

If John intended to communicate "a god," he could have used τις θεός ("a certain god") or a clearer indefinite construction.

b. Qualitative Emphasis of Θεὸς:

By placing Θεὸς before the verb, John emphasizes the nature or essence of the Word. The construction affirms the Word is fully divine, sharing the essence of God, not merely godlike or a lesser deity.

3. Conflict with Johannine Theology and Context
a. Monotheistic Framework:

John 1:1b states that the Word was πρὸς τὸν Θεόν ("with God"), which indicates personal distinction. The third clause, "καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος," complements this by asserting the Word’s full deity.

Translating "a god" introduces theological dissonance by implying multiple gods, contrary to the strict monotheism of Scripture (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10).

b. The Logos as Creator:
John 1:3 declares, "All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made." Creation is an act exclusive to God (cf. Isaiah 44:24). The Logos must be fully divine to fulfill this role.

If the Logos were merely "a god" or "divine," it undermines His authority as Creator and sustainer of all things
(Colossians 1:16-17).

c. Harmony with Other Passages:
John 20:28 records Thomas addressing Jesus as "My Lord and my God" (Ho Kyrios mou kai ho Theos mou), affirming the deity of Christ.

Philippians 2:6 describes Christ as existing "in the form of God" (ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ), indicating His participation in the divine essence.

Hebrews 1:3 declares the Son to be "the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature" (χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως).

4. Assessment of the Translations Cited

a. "a god" (Schulz):
This rendering introduces polytheism and misinterprets the anarthrous Θεὸς.

b. "godlike sort" (Schneider):
The phrase "godlike" diminishes the Word's nature, reducing Him to a creature with divine qualities rather than the uncreated God.

c. "divine" (Moffatt, Goodspeed, others):
While "divine" is closer, it remains imprecise in English. It can imply mere attributes, leaving room for heretical interpretations.
d. McKenzie's "a divine being":

McKenzie's translation reflects a philosophical interpretation rather than the theological intent of the text. It suggests a subordinate being, inconsistent with John's high Christology.

Conclusion
John 1:1c is best understood as "the Word was God," affirming the full deity of the Logos. The Greek syntax, Johannine theology, and broader scriptural context all confirm this interpretation. Alternative translations like "a god" or "divine" fail to capture the essence of the text and often arise from theological biases that attempt to diminish the deity of Christ.

Thanks.

J.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lizbeth

ProDeo

Well-Known Member
Nov 20, 2024
622
529
93
50
Deventer
Faith
Christian
Country
Netherlands
View attachment 54646
1: Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος (En archē ēn ho Logos)
Morphology:

Ἐν (en): Preposition in the dative case, meaning "in."

ἀρχῇ (archē): Noun in the dative singular, meaning "beginning."

ἦν (ēn): Imperfect active indicative of the verb eimi ("to be"), third-person singular, indicating continuous existence.

ὁ Λόγος (ho Logos): Article (ho) and noun (Logos), nominative singular, meaning "the Word."
Syntax:

Prepositional phrase (ἐν ἀρχῇ) establishes the temporal setting ("in the beginning").

Subject (ὁ Λόγος) follows the verb (ἦν), which expresses ongoing existence, indicating that the Word existed timelessly and continuously.

Clause 2: καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν (kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon)

Morphology:

καὶ (kai): Coordinating conjunction, meaning "and."

ὁ Λόγος (ho Logos): Article and noun, nominative singular, as above.

ἦν (ēn): Same verb as in Clause 1, indicating continuous existence.

πρὸς (pros): Preposition with the accusative, meaning "toward" or "with," implying relational proximity.

τὸν Θεόν (ton Theon): Article (ton) and noun (Theon), accusative singular, meaning "the God," referring to the Father.
Syntax:

Subject (ὁ Λόγος) is in nominative case, linked to the verb (ἦν).

Prepositional phrase (πρὸς τὸν Θεόν) emphasizes relationship, not merely spatial proximity but intimate communion or face-to-face relationship.

Clause 3: καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος (kai Theos ēn ho Logos)
Morphology:

καὶ (kai): Coordinating conjunction, as above.
Θεὸς (Theos): Noun, nominative singular, without the definite article.
ἦν (ēn): Same verb, indicating continuous existence.
ὁ Λόγος (ho Logos): Article and noun, nominative singular, as above.
Syntax:

Predicate nominative (Θεὸς) is placed before the verb (ἦν), emphasizing the qualitative aspect of Theos ("God").

Subject (ὁ Λόγος) follows the verb (ἦν), maintaining grammatical clarity.

The absence of the definite article with Θεὸς avoids identifying ὁ Λόγος as the entirety of τὸν Θεόν (the Father), preserving Trinitarian distinction while affirming the Word’s divine essence.

2. Syntax and Semantic Implications

Use of the Imperfect Verb "ἦν"

The verb ἦν (imperfect active indicative) occurs in all three clauses, denoting continuous action in the past.

It emphasizes that the Word's existence transcends temporal constraints, affirming the Word's eternal nature.

Article Usage with "Θεὸς"

In Greek, the presence or absence of the article (ho) before Theos determines specificity versus essence.

In καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος, the absence of the article does not mean indefiniteness ("a god"); instead, it highlights the qualitative aspect of Theos.


If John had written ho Theos ēn ho Logos, it would imply that ho Logos exhaustively encompasses all that is God, collapsing the distinction between the Father and the Word.

Preposition "πρὸς"
The preposition πρὸς in πρὸς τὸν Θεόν conveys relational intimacy. This phrasing suggests both distinction (the Word is not the Father) and unity (the Word shares in the divine essence).

3. Rebutting the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Interpretation

Their Claim: "The Word was a god"

Morphology: They misunderstand the absence of the article before Θεὸς, wrongly equating it with indefiniteness.

Syntax: The Predicate Nominative structure (Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος) rules out an indefinite interpretation, as the grammatical construction emphasizes nature or quality, not separate identity or inferiority.

Proper Understanding: "The Word was God"
Morphologically, Θεὸς functions as a qualitative predicate nominative, affirming the divine nature of ὁ Λόγος.

Syntactically, the word order highlights Θεὸς while maintaining the distinction between the Word and the Father (πρὸς τὸν Θεόν).
This analysis confirms that the text does not describe the Word as "a god" but as fully divine in nature, consistent with Christian Trinitarian theology.
was God. Not "a god," for the lack of the Greek article here does not make "God" indefinite, but determines which term ("Word" or "God") is to be the subject of the linking verb "was."

Greek word order is somewhat more flexible than English, for in English statement sentences the predicate nominative always follows the linking verb. But the literal order of the Greek words here is "and God was the Word" (kai theos ēn o logos), the subject "Word" follows the verb, and the predicate nominative "God" precedes the verb, the reverse of English word order.

Since this clause uses a linking verb, both the subject and the predicate nominative are in the nominative case, so case endings do not serve to identify the subject in this construction; rather, the article "the" points out the subject of the clause. Greek uses the article "the" to accomplish what English does by word order.

Thus, if John had placed the article "the" before "God," the meaning would be "God was the Word;" if he had placed the article "the" before both "Word" and "God," the meaning would be convertible or reversible: it would mean equally "God was the Word," and "The Word was God," but this John did not do.

By placing the article "the" before "Word," "Word" must be the subject of the linking verb "was," and the statement can only be rendered "the Word was God."

Just as mistaken is the rendering "the Word was divine," for "God," lacking the article, is not thereby an adjective, or rendered qualitative when it precedes a linking verb followed by a noun which does have the article. See the note on Mat_27:54 for scholarly documentation and an explanation of this construction known technically as the "anarthrous noun."

Translators and translations which choose to render this phrase "a god" or "divine," are motivated by theological, not grammatical, considerations.

The phrase "a god" is particularly objectionable, because it makes Christ a lesser "god," which is polytheism, and contrary to the express declaration of Scripture elsewhere (Deu_32:39).

For clearly if Christ is "a god," then he must be either a "true god" or a "false god." If "true," we assert polytheism; if "false," he is unworthy of our credence. John’s high view of Christ expressed throughout his Gospel, climaxing in the testimony of Thomas, who addressed Christ as "my Lord and my God," is asserted from this opening statement, "the Word was God." There is no legitimate basis for understanding his declaration in any lesser sense than affirming the full deity of our Savior. **Jhn_5:18; +*Jhn_8:35; +*Jhn_8:58; +*Jhn_8:59; +*Jhn_10:30; +*Jhn_10:33; +*%+Jhn_10:34; Jhn_14:7; +**Jhn_20:28, +*Deu_32:39, +*Job_19:26, Isa_7:14; Isa_9:6; *Isa_43:10; **Isa_44:6, **Jer_23:5; **Jer_23:6, +*Mic_5:2, %Act_12:22; **Act_20:28, Rom_9:5, %*2Co_4:4, Eph_5:5 g. **Php_2:6 note. 2Th_1:12 g. 1Ti_3:16, **Tit_2:13 g. +*Heb_1:8, **2Pe_1:1 g. Rev_21:7.

It's truly disappointing to see how many translate this verse in a way similar to the Jehovah's Witnesses, seemingly in an attempt to undermine the deity of the Messiah. @ProDeo.

God bless. @marks anything you want to add?

J.
Thanks Johann :grinning:
 

A Freeman

Member
Dec 18, 2024
145
77
28
62
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
“In all other translations”?

No, actually….

▪ 1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London.

▪ 1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)

▪ 1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)

▪ 1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation of the New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)

▪ 1864: "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)

▪ 1867: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible

▪ 1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)

▪ 1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)

▪ 1911: "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)

▪ 1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago

▪ 1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.

▪ 1956: "In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity" – The Wuest Expanded Translation[15]

▪ 1958: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed (J. L. Tomanec, 1958)

▪ 1966, 2001: "...and he was the same as God" – The Good News Bible

▪ 1970, 1989: "...and what God was, the Word was" – The Revised English Bible

▪ 1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany

▪ 1975: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);

▪ 1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin.

(In the following paragraph, bold type, italics, and underlining are mine.)

Some use the term "divine." [Divine simply means “of God”, or “from God”; it doesn’t mean God](1) Trinitarian Moffatt's highly acclaimed New Translation of the Bible and (2) trinitarian Smith-Goodspeed's An American Translation both say that the Word "was divine." The translations by (3) Boehmer, (4) Stage, and (5) Menge all say the Word was "of divine being." (6) Trinitarian & highly acclaimed scholar John J. McKenzie, S. J., writes in his Dictionary of the Bible: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated `the word was with the God (equals the Father), and the word was a divine being.'" - p. 317, Macmillan Publishing Co., Inc., 1965, published with Catholic Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur.


If you’ll please note, many of these translations were written before Jehovah’s Witnesses were founded.
Take care, my cousin.
Is the relevance of conjunctions and tense lost on most reading John 1:1?

From the KJV:

John 1:1-2
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

In context, "with" in the above passage indicates two distinct parties (God and the Word).
The word "was" is PAST TENSE. How could anything about our changeless God (Mal. 3:6) cease to exist?

If it is said "he was alive", it necessarily means that the referenced individual are no longer alive. How then can someone attempt to argue that God is with Himself, and/or that the Word allegedly is God, when it clearly states that "the Word" WAS (past tense) God (and thus is speaking of an event that has passed, in this case "the beginning").

The "Word" can reference communication in multiple different ways. It can refer to a telepathic message/unspoken Word (vision), or to the verbal Word (as spoken by God’s Prophets), or the written Word (e.g. the Bible) or the flesh-and-blood example of the Word (Christ, The Word OF God MADE flesh.

What the above passage very clearly does NOT say is that "Jesus is God", and yet that is how the spiritually blind interpret it, even though it neither says nor implies such a thing.

It's imperative to break free of the programming (that's what the "trinity" doctrine really is - a man-made tradition) and read what the Scripture actually says (and what it doesn't say).
 

A Freeman

Member
Dec 18, 2024
145
77
28
62
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And concerning the use of "god" (small "g"), that is simply another word used to describe the Sons of God, aka the spiritual-Beings/angels.

Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you (your spirit-Beings) [are] children of the Most High.

John 10:34-36
10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are gods?
10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the Word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken;
10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
 
J

Johann

Guest
The word "was" is PAST TENSE. How could anything about our changeless God (Mal. 3:6) cease to exist?
What is the Imperfect Tense of "was?"

Joh 1:1 In Ἐν [the] beginning ἀρχῇ was ἦν the ὁ Word, Λόγος, and καὶ the ὁ Word Λόγος was ἦν with πρὸς - τὸν God, Θεόν, and καὶ the ὁ Word Λόγος. was ἦν God. Θεὸς

Transliteration: ēn
Morphology: V-IIA-3S
Verb - Imperfect Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's no.: G1510 (εἰμί)
Meaning: To be, exist.

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]

No amount of twisting or reinterpreting can nullify this verse or diminish our great God and Savior into a "lesser being."

J.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2018
27,358
14,801
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You don't know when it happened. We are 950 years too late for it.

Bummer We …You…fretting over an an event that has not yet occurred.

The Church IS STILL on Earth….STILL adding new members Daily….to the estimated data collected of about 50 mil to 70 million per day…. And no rapture for them ?
Don’t believe that.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
13,085
7,434
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Stick closely to the Spirit Of God ..then whatever you hear him say ,check it out with the penned word...

Having been Born Of The Spirit we follow his testimony, he is Gods Living testimony, Gods penned word confirms this.

The Lord promises that if we seek Him, we will find Him. #seek #closer #God #faith SHARE ON X


Blankets | Do you desire to walk nearer to the Lord? Have you made it your life goal? Today I share 10 bible verses to help you draw closer to God.
(Deuteronomy 4:29 CEB)
 
Last edited:

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
4,363
5,815
113
67
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
1 Timothy 3:16 does not say “God” in the older manuscripts. They say “Who was manifest in the flesh.”

John 1:18 & 1 John 4:12 tell us, “No one has ever seen God.”

Do you think the Bible really contradicts itself? (Some versions, written by trinitarians, make it seem so.)

So, Jesus is his Father? At John 14:28, Jesus tells us “The Father is greater than I am.”

No, Jesus is “the image of God.”
- 1 Cor. 4:8
He is “the exact representation” of God. - Hebrews 1:3

So, seeing Jesus was just like seeing his Father… they felt, thought, and acted the same.

Still, an “image” & “representation” are not the genuine article.
Are they?
Interesting that Paul, in describing Jesus, calls him an “image” of God; Paul knew that images were condemned in worship! The last thing he wanted, was to encourage Jews & Christians to worship Jesus!

Misrepresenting Scripture is easy to do, when it’s taken out of context.

Once we learn our error, we should stop.
Yes you should stop. People without the Holy Spirit helping them, see contradictions.........I don't.
 

RedFan

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2022
2,871
1,257
113
70
New Hampshire
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes you should stop. People without the Holy Spirit helping them, see contradictions.........I don't.
Does the Holy Spirit help you enough to explain tho the rest of us why apparent contradictions are not really contradictions?
 

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
4,363
5,815
113
67
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Does the Holy Spirit help you enough to explain tho the rest of us why apparent contradictions are not really contradictions?
You should ask the Lord yourself, IF you know Him. (And that's a really big "if" where JW's and RC's are concerned. Though increasingly among Protestants too sadly, in this time of falling away.)

The natural man cannot perceive the things of God for they are spiritually discerned.
 

RedFan

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2022
2,871
1,257
113
70
New Hampshire
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You should ask the Lord yourself, IF you know Him. (And that's a really big "if" where JW's and RC's are concerned. Though increasingly among Protestants too sadly, in this time of falling away.)

The natural man cannot perceive the things of God for they are spiritually discerned.
I'll take that as a "no."
 
J

Johann

Guest
You should ask the Lord yourself, IF you know Him. (And that's a really big "if" where JW's and RC's are concerned. Though increasingly among Protestants too sadly, in this time of falling away.)

The natural man cannot perceive the things of God for they are spiritually discerned.
We are in the last days, @Lizbeth, and a great apostasy is unfolding across the globe. As it is written, "Because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold" (Matthew 24:12). Stay strong and keep the faith, for "he who endures to the end shall be saved" (Matthew 24:13).

Johann.
 

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
4,363
5,815
113
67
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
We are in the last days, @Lizbeth, and a great apostasy is unfolding across the globe. As it is written, "Because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold" (Matthew 24:12). Stay strong and keep the faith, for "he who endures to the end shall be saved" (Matthew 24:13).

Johann.
Thank you brother.....it is awful to see, and discouraging at times.
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,886
50,655
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who told you this???
When it comes to the lake of fire , all who rejected JESUS the CHRIST and followed either another jesus
or a false religoin will end up there .
it is the second death that all earned, and all deserved .
THIS IS WHY WE PREACH JESUS the CHRIST , for unto all who do beleive IN HIM it is eternal life .
But as i wrote just moments ago , FOLKS had better not be following and a loving another jesus
one that accepts sins and unbelief , cause that AINT JESUS and it DONT save .
Technically , in a way , Rita would be right . MEANING THIS
we dont know who ends up there on an individual basis . Again meaning had one seen
me over eighteen years ago they could have said that man gonna end up in hell
YET grace appeared , i was drawn to CHRIST and now am free .
Meaning we dont know who will repent . ALL we can do is warn those in unbelief , and loving on sin
THEY IN DEADLY DANGER of hells fire the second death if they repent not to BELIEVE on JESUS the CHRIST
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvelloustime

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
4,363
5,815
113
67
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Just posting this lovely gem for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear:

Jhn 17:3-8

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
 

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
4,363
5,815
113
67
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
View attachment 54646
1: Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος (En archē ēn ho Logos)
Morphology:

Ἐν (en): Preposition in the dative case, meaning "in."

ἀρχῇ (archē): Noun in the dative singular, meaning "beginning."

ἦν (ēn): Imperfect active indicative of the verb eimi ("to be"), third-person singular, indicating continuous existence.

ὁ Λόγος (ho Logos): Article (ho) and noun (Logos), nominative singular, meaning "the Word."
Syntax:

Prepositional phrase (ἐν ἀρχῇ) establishes the temporal setting ("in the beginning").

Subject (ὁ Λόγος) follows the verb (ἦν), which expresses ongoing existence, indicating that the Word existed timelessly and continuously.

Clause 2: καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν (kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon)

Morphology:

καὶ (kai): Coordinating conjunction, meaning "and."

ὁ Λόγος (ho Logos): Article and noun, nominative singular, as above.

ἦν (ēn): Same verb as in Clause 1, indicating continuous existence.

πρὸς (pros): Preposition with the accusative, meaning "toward" or "with," implying relational proximity.

τὸν Θεόν (ton Theon): Article (ton) and noun (Theon), accusative singular, meaning "the God," referring to the Father.
Syntax:

Subject (ὁ Λόγος) is in nominative case, linked to the verb (ἦν).

Prepositional phrase (πρὸς τὸν Θεόν) emphasizes relationship, not merely spatial proximity but intimate communion or face-to-face relationship.

Clause 3: καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος (kai Theos ēn ho Logos)
Morphology:

καὶ (kai): Coordinating conjunction, as above.
Θεὸς (Theos): Noun, nominative singular, without the definite article.
ἦν (ēn): Same verb, indicating continuous existence.
ὁ Λόγος (ho Logos): Article and noun, nominative singular, as above.
Syntax:

Predicate nominative (Θεὸς) is placed before the verb (ἦν), emphasizing the qualitative aspect of Theos ("God").

Subject (ὁ Λόγος) follows the verb (ἦν), maintaining grammatical clarity.

The absence of the definite article with Θεὸς avoids identifying ὁ Λόγος as the entirety of τὸν Θεόν (the Father), preserving Trinitarian distinction while affirming the Word’s divine essence.

2. Syntax and Semantic Implications

Use of the Imperfect Verb "ἦν"

The verb ἦν (imperfect active indicative) occurs in all three clauses, denoting continuous action in the past.

It emphasizes that the Word's existence transcends temporal constraints, affirming the Word's eternal nature.

Article Usage with "Θεὸς"

In Greek, the presence or absence of the article (ho) before Theos determines specificity versus essence.

In καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος, the absence of the article does not mean indefiniteness ("a god"); instead, it highlights the qualitative aspect of Theos.


If John had written ho Theos ēn ho Logos, it would imply that ho Logos exhaustively encompasses all that is God, collapsing the distinction between the Father and the Word.

Preposition "πρὸς"
The preposition πρὸς in πρὸς τὸν Θεόν conveys relational intimacy. This phrasing suggests both distinction (the Word is not the Father) and unity (the Word shares in the divine essence).

3. Rebutting the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Interpretation

Their Claim: "The Word was a god"

Morphology: They misunderstand the absence of the article before Θεὸς, wrongly equating it with indefiniteness.

Syntax: The Predicate Nominative structure (Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος) rules out an indefinite interpretation, as the grammatical construction emphasizes nature or quality, not separate identity or inferiority.

Proper Understanding: "The Word was God"
Morphologically, Θεὸς functions as a qualitative predicate nominative, affirming the divine nature of ὁ Λόγος.

Syntactically, the word order highlights Θεὸς while maintaining the distinction between the Word and the Father (πρὸς τὸν Θεόν).
This analysis confirms that the text does not describe the Word as "a god" but as fully divine in nature, consistent with Christian Trinitarian theology.
was God. Not "a god," for the lack of the Greek article here does not make "God" indefinite, but determines which term ("Word" or "God") is to be the subject of the linking verb "was."

Greek word order is somewhat more flexible than English, for in English statement sentences the predicate nominative always follows the linking verb. But the literal order of the Greek words here is "and God was the Word" (kai theos ēn o logos), the subject "Word" follows the verb, and the predicate nominative "God" precedes the verb, the reverse of English word order.

Since this clause uses a linking verb, both the subject and the predicate nominative are in the nominative case, so case endings do not serve to identify the subject in this construction; rather, the article "the" points out the subject of the clause. Greek uses the article "the" to accomplish what English does by word order.

Thus, if John had placed the article "the" before "God," the meaning would be "God was the Word;" if he had placed the article "the" before both "Word" and "God," the meaning would be convertible or reversible: it would mean equally "God was the Word," and "The Word was God," but this John did not do.

By placing the article "the" before "Word," "Word" must be the subject of the linking verb "was," and the statement can only be rendered "the Word was God."

Just as mistaken is the rendering "the Word was divine," for "God," lacking the article, is not thereby an adjective, or rendered qualitative when it precedes a linking verb followed by a noun which does have the article. See the note on Mat_27:54 for scholarly documentation and an explanation of this construction known technically as the "anarthrous noun."

Translators and translations which choose to render this phrase "a god" or "divine," are motivated by theological, not grammatical, considerations.

The phrase "a god" is particularly objectionable, because it makes Christ a lesser "god," which is polytheism, and contrary to the express declaration of Scripture elsewhere (Deu_32:39).

For clearly if Christ is "a god," then he must be either a "true god" or a "false god." If "true," we assert polytheism; if "false," he is unworthy of our credence. John’s high view of Christ expressed throughout his Gospel, climaxing in the testimony of Thomas, who addressed Christ as "my Lord and my God," is asserted from this opening statement, "the Word was God." There is no legitimate basis for understanding his declaration in any lesser sense than affirming the full deity of our Savior. **Jhn_5:18; +*Jhn_8:35; +*Jhn_8:58; +*Jhn_8:59; +*Jhn_10:30; +*Jhn_10:33; +*%+Jhn_10:34; Jhn_14:7; +**Jhn_20:28, +*Deu_32:39, +*Job_19:26, Isa_7:14; Isa_9:6; *Isa_43:10; **Isa_44:6, **Jer_23:5; **Jer_23:6, +*Mic_5:2, %Act_12:22; **Act_20:28, Rom_9:5, %*2Co_4:4, Eph_5:5 g. **Php_2:6 note. 2Th_1:12 g. 1Ti_3:16, **Tit_2:13 g. +*Heb_1:8, **2Pe_1:1 g. Rev_21:7.

It's truly disappointing to see how many translate this verse in a way similar to the Jehovah's Witnesses, seemingly in an attempt to undermine the deity of the Messiah. @ProDeo.

God bless. @marks anything you want to add?

J.
Amen. The JW's seem to use a weak, sickly, watered down translation that was made to support the false doctrines of their cult.
 

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
4,363
5,815
113
67
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
For the attention of @amigo de christo ..who does this all over the forum...you best take note Sir..in the Name Of Jesus!...Amen!

As the Apostle Paul said to Timothy, “For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control” (2 Timothy 1:7). The gospel is not compatible with fearmongering, and so Christians ought to resist it.

That is why I now have you on permanent ignore, along with those who reinforce some of your posts of fear mongering....which you have posted to me..,you desperately need to grow in spiritual maturity imo...you are stunted in that area I’m afraid...you need to know God’s Love in your spirit/ heart.....

You also need to do more of this...whilst you are reading the penned word..the penned word is not the Living Spirit Of God...

John 1:1
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

New Living Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

English Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Berean Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.




View attachment 54643






....this is my daily prayer for you and a few of your associates.

9b20515b5920c47fb60277cb5a775981.jpg
Scripture also says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of..................
 
Status
Not open for further replies.