Validity of Scripture, the Apocrypha versus the King James

[Hobie]

Many say it doesnt matter what Bible you read, but as false beliefs crept into the church, they had to be backed up just as today many churches are putting out their own versions of the Bible with changes in text just enough to cover their views or questionable doctrines. We must be very careful whenever we move away from the tried and true text and bring in corruptions such as in the Apocrypha.

From the Encyclopaedia Britannica...
"Apocrypha, (from Greek apokryptein, “to hide away”), in biblical literature, works outside an accepted canon of scripture. The history of the term’s usage indicates that it referred to a body of esoteric writings that were at first prized, later tolerated, and finally excluded. In its broadest sense apocrypha has come to mean any writings of dubious authority."

Many false doctrines came into the church and are supported by the writings of the Gnostics and by the Apocrypha. The Apocrypha is a collection of books with mysticism and fables mixed into stories, not books of faith. Not a bit of these extra books it has is inspired, or even claims to be. If fact, the Jews never considered these stories to be divinely inspired as they clearly denied their authority. At the time of Christ we have the testimony of Josephus that they were only 22 books divinely inspired by God. These books are the same as our thirty-nine in the Old Testament. The books of the Apocrypha were not among these. Josephus explicitly rejected the Apocrypha and listed the Hebrew Canon to be 22 books. The Old Testament Canon in the Bible today contains 39 books while the Hebrew canon combines them 22 or 24. These are the exact same books as the Protestants have in their Bibles, but they are just arranged differently and some of the books are combined into one. For example, Kings is one book. There is not 1st Kings and 2nd Kings. Also, all of the 12 minor prophets (Hosea through Malachi) are one book in the Hebrew Canon. Jerome, a Biblical scholar who was able to read the Hebrew Canon and was translator of the Latin Vulgate, rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture. But the leaders in Rome forced him to include it in his translation, and later they began a campaign to banish Jerome.

Many false doctrines came into the church and are supported by the writings of the Gnostics and by the Apocrypha The Apocrypha if one looks are books based on mysticism and supposedly contain the secret doctrines (hidden things, which are opened to the enlightened or illuminated ones.)

Regarding the Apocrypha, The Council of Trent decreed:
Whoever shall not receive as sacred and canonical all these books and every part of them, as they are commonly read in the Catholic Church, and are contained in the old Vulgate Latin edition, or shall knowingly and deliberately despise the aforesaid traditions, let him be accursed. - Council of Trent fourth session.

These writings were never considered part of the Canon, as they clearly contradict the Scriptures as can be seen in the following few examples:

Bewitching Art:
Tobias 6:4-8 ... Open the fish, and take the heart and liver and the gall .....if a devil or an evil spirit trouble any, we must make a smoke thereof before the man or the woman, and the party shall no more be vexed. As for the gall, it is good to anoint a man that hath witness in his eyes, and he shall be healed.

The Biblical rebuke to this statement is found in Mark 16:17 and Acts 16:18:
And signs will follow to those believing these things: in My name they will cast out demons. Mark 16:17
... But being distressed, and turning to the demonic spirit, Paul said, I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her! And it came out in that hour. Acts 16:18

Salvation by Works:
Tobias 12:9 For alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.
Biblical rebuke: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers. 1 Peter 1:18-19

Prayer for Dead:
2 Maccabees 12:43-46, ... For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead ....Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.
Biblical rebuke: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

The Apocrypha was never accepted by the Reformation and the fact is that those translations that lean heavily on Catholic documents are highly problematic to say the least. The Textus Receptus was the basis of the Bibles of the Reformation as it was the textual base for many Reformation-era translations of the New Testament into various languages which led up to the KJV, and the Apocrypha was seen for the false corruption that it was.

 

[Hobie]

Here is a good explanation I came across that lays it out..

"Rejection by the Jewish Community
3. The "oracles of God" were given to the Jews (Rom. 3:2) and they rejected the Old Testament Apocrypha as part of this inspired revelation. Interestingly, Jesus had many disputes with the Jews, but He never disputed with them regarding the extent of the inspired revelation of God.2

4. While the Dead Sea scrolls contain copies of several books of the Apocrypha, they contain far more copies of pseudepigraphal books like 1 Enoch that even the Roman Catholic church admits are clearly not inspired. What is important to note here, however, is that owning copies of a book does not imply belief in that book's inspiration. The Dead Sea Scrolls contain a variety of community rules, historical documents, festival calendars, and other uninspired documents that the community found useful. The scrolls do not contain commentaries on the Apocrypha as they do for the Jewish Old Testament books, and they do not cite the Apocrypha authoritatively as scripture. This probably indicates that even the Essene community did not regard the Apocrypha as highly as the Jewish Old Testament books.

5. Many ancient Jews rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture. Philo never quoted the Apocrypha as Scripture. Josephus explicitly rejected the Apocrypha and listed the Hebrew Canon to be 22 books.3 In fact, the Jewish Community acknowledged that the prophetic gifts had ceased in Israel before the Apocrypha was written.

Rejection by many in the Catholic Church
6. The Catholic Church has not always accepted the Apocrypha. The Apocrypha was not officially accepted by the Catholic Church at a universal council until 1546 at the Council of Trent. This is over a millennium and a half after the books were written, and was a counter reaction to the Protestant Reformation.4

7. Many church Fathers rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture, and many just used them for devotional purposes. For example, Jerome, the great Biblical scholar and translator of the Latin Vulgate, rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture though, supposedly under pressure, he did make a hurried translation of it. In fact, most of the church fathers in the first four centuries of the Church rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture. Along with Jerome, names include Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, and Athanasius.

8. The Apocryphal books were placed in Bibles before the Council of Trent and after but were placed in a separate section because they were not of equal authority. The Apocrypha rightfully has some devotional purposes, but it is not inspired.

False Teachings
9. The Apocrypha contains a number of false teachings (see: Errors in the Apocrypha). (To check the following references, see http://www.newadvent.org/bible.)

• The command to use magic (Tobit 6:5-7).
• Forgiveness of sins by almsgiving (Tobit 4:11; 12:9).
• Offering of money for the sins of the dead (2 Maccabees 12:43-45)."...Reasons why the Apocrypha does not belong in the Bible | CARM.org

 

[Matthias]

This is an interesting thread but why “the Apocrypha vs. King James”?

”The apocrypha is a selection of books which were published in the original 1611 King James Bible. … The apocrypha was a part of the KJV for 274 years until being removed in 1885 A.D. …”

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Apocrypha-Books/

 

[Athanasius377]

The issue of the Apocrypha is a bit more complicated that just the fact that it was printed as an OT appendix in the KJV. There are currently two basic versions of the OT. The Hebrew version, or the Masoretic text (MT), that was standardized and added vowel pointing by the Masorites in the 9-11 centuries AD. The second is the Greek translation of the OT known as the Septuagint (LXX) that was translated beginning in the second century BC and continued for some time afterwords. Originally it was just the Torah that was translated and the other books were translated through the years afterwords. The books that make up the Apocrypha were often found in collections of books along with the LXX. There is debate on what makes up the Apocrypha as some list books like 3 and 4 Maccabees, 1 Enoch and the 151 Psalm. The KJV uses the narrower version of the Apocrypha.

The MT OT does not contain any of the books of the Apocrypha. The Jews never considered those books as making the hands "unclean", nor inspired, nor were they ever laid up in the Temple. Writers such as Josephus and the like when discussing canon will always mention the books numbering of 22 or 24 (depending on what you do with Ruth or Lamentations). Sometimes you will hear of a council of Jamnia in the late first century AD that supposedly closed the Jewish canon. Such a council never existed. Rather, it was an academy that was at Jamnia from as early as the first century BC to the second century AD. The only issue of canon that was ever discussed was if Esther or the Song of Songs was canonical or not. And even if they did find that those books did not make the hands unclean as they put it; did not have any recognized authority within Judaism to declare anything about said books.

So if we have a Hebrew version that purports to be a continuation of the Ancient Hebrew OT manuscript tradition as opposed to the Greek translation then the decision is pretty easy to make, right? Not so fast. There are scholars that believe the LXX reflects an older manuscript tradition in places than does the MT, however not all the LXX is translated as well as say the Torah. Add to that when the NT quotes the OT, it is usually from the LXX and not the MT. Most modern English translations favor the MT as the source of the OT. I am not aware of any bible translation except the Orthodox Study Bible that uses the LXX as the basis of the OT. You can find stand alone translations of the LXX such as Brenton's translation and one put out by Lexham Press.

So when the early Christian church was compiling what it was going to use for the OT scriptures most (as it was primarily gentile at this point) simply adopted the LXX that was in circulation at the time. This was the basis for the Old Latin text that was used in the West and few other translations into Syirac and the like. The issue of the Apocrypha didn't arise again until Jerome was translating his Vulgate bible that he, having learned Hebrew and being familiar with Jewish culture, realized that several of the books that were in use were not part of the Jewish canon. So in his introduction to the Vulgate he states that these books are not scripture but rather Apocrypha. So early on there are two streams in the Church and later the Roman Catholic church in the west with differing thoughts on the Apocrypha. The Study bible of the middle ages which gives a few glosses over what a passage means began each book of the Apocrypha with the words, "Here begins the book of (Sirach), it is not scripture". It was not until 1546 at the Council of Trent that the RC church dogmatically defined scripture as including the Apocrypha.

Fast forward to the 16th century and Luther, along with the other reformers, discover (or already knew) that these books were disputed right from the beginning. Now what is curious is that Luther, while denying that the books of the Apocrypha are scripture, still kept the books in his translation of the German Bible. He regulated them to an Appendix. Likewise, when the Church of England was revising their translation of the scriptures (As the KJV is revision of the previous Bishops' Bible), did something similar but regulating these books to an appendix between the OT and NT. Both the Lutherans and Anglicans historically read from the books of the Apocrypha in their daily offices (E.g. Matins and Vespers) but did not consider the Apocrypha scripture. It was not until the 19th century when bible societies wanted to save on printing costs that the Apocrypha was removed from subsequent editions of the KJV of the bible. Other English non-RC translations all followed suit and so it is exceedingly rare that a modern English translation as the Apocrypha included.

 

[chandlere880]

Hello,

it is so nice to be here reading the awesome posts of so many people who are wonderful to learn from

I have been doing some studying myself and here is what I have learned.


35 % - of the Hebrew contained in the Dead Sea Scrolls match exactly identical with the Masoretic text

but only about 1 - 2 % - of the Dead Sea Scroll fragments found in Greek - show support todays version of the Greek Septuagint



the remaining other 55 % of the other Dead Sea Scroll materials do not match or confirm any bible version or any other manuscripts that have been found.


Over half - " 55 % " - of all Dead Sea Scroll materials discovered between 1947 and 1956
DO NOT support or match any other manuscripts nor match up to any bible translation anywhere.




The Dead Sea Scrolls are usually thought to have been produced by a group known as the Essenes.

The Essenes collected and stored the Dead Sea Scrolls in caves. Today they are labeled as unbelievers, heretical cult and are not considered mainstream Christianity.

the Essenes deny original sin, heaven, hell, and salvation through Christ.


In the dead sea scrolls there were found 203 verses in the Greek language - for the Old Testament

However, there are an approximate 23,145 tota l verses that are contained in the entire Hebrew Old Testament




Here are the 203 Greek passages found in the Dead Sea Scrolls for the Old Testament
Greek Septuagint verse found in the Dead Sea Scrolls


4Q119 - Greek Septuagint. Leviticus. Chapter 26: 2 – 3 - 6 – 9 – 14


4Q120 - Greek Septuagint. Leviticus 1: 11 _ 2: 3 - 4 - 7 _ 3: 4 - 7 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 13 - 14 _ 4: 3 - 4 - 6 - 8 - 10 - 11 - 18 - 19 - 26 - 27 - 28 - 30 _ 5: 6 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 16 - 17 - 18 - 19 _ 6: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5


4Q121 - Greek Septuagint. Numbers 3: 40 - 41 - 42 - 43 - 50 _ 4: 1 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15 – 16
4Q122 - Greek Septuagint. Deuteronomy 11: - 4
7Q1 - Greek Septuagint. Exodus 28: 4 - 5 - 6 - 6 – 7


8HevXIIgr - Septuagint

Jonah 1: - 14 - 15 - 16 - 17
Jonah 2: -1 - 2 - 3 - 5 - 6
Jonah 3: - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10
Jonah 4: - 1 - 2 - 5
Micah 1: - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8
Micah 2: - 7 - 8
Micah 3: - 5 - 6
Micah 4: - 3 - 4 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10
Micah 5: - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7
Nahum 1: - 13
Nahum 2 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 12 - 13
Nahum 3: - 3 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15
Habakkuk 1: - 6 - 7 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 15 - 16 – 17
Habakkuk 2: - 1 - 2 - 3 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 13 - 14 - 15 - 16 - 17 - 18 - 19 - 20
Habakkuk 3: - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15
Zephaniah 1: - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 13 - 14 - 15 - 16 - 17 - 18
Zephaniah 2: - 9 - 10
Zephaniah 3: - 7
Zechariah 1: - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 12 - 13 – 21
Zechariah 2: - 3 - 4 - 5 - 7 - 8 - 12
Zechariah 3: - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7
Zechariah 8: - 19 - 20 - 21 - 23
Zechariah 9: - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5



about 1 - 2 % - of the Dead Sea Scroll fragments found in Greek - show support today’s version of the Greek Septuagint - MEANING THERE ARE CONTRADICTIONS, VARIANTS AND PROBLEMS WHERE THESE MANUSCRIPTS DO NOT SUPPORT THE GREEK SEPTUAGINT


just because people were making Greek translations of the Old Testament does not provide support for a completed Greek Septuagint - especially when less that 1 % of Greek manuscripts exist - to show what existed as Old Testament Greek translation.

Many people are tempted to make exaggerate and invent false narratives and probably have even overly exaggerated what was actually found in Greek within Dead Sea Scrolls -

in other words, people will take small, tiny flakes and shreds of crumbled fragments that are only partial verses or partial chapters and then invent the narrative and idea that they had discovered a complete chapter or completed verse when only a tiny flake or fragment had actually been discovered.

they exaggerate

also the remaining 55 % of Dead Sea Scrolls are materials that exist - are either not supporting the Bible Translations we have today or they are Apocryphal writings or materials not related to the Bible
THE OTHER remaining 55 % OF of the Dead Sea Scrolls include: Exegetical texts, explaining history and Historical texts, Legal texts, Parabiblical texts, and Poetical/liturgical texts.

I do not believe that Apocryphal writings are scripture given from the Spirit of God.

For example The Apocryphal Book of Jubilees also is filled with many contradictions, for eXample the Jubilees Chapter 38 says that Jacob and Esau were in a war against one another and during a battle Jacob shot Esau in the chest with an arrow and killed Him. this is contradicted by the Bible.

 

[doctrox]

I do not believe that Apocryphal writings are scripture given from the Spirit of God.

It gets worse.

The Rockefeller Foundation - infamous for its involvement in one-world political organizations, such as the Council on Foreign
Relations and the Trilateral Commission - is funding the research on the Dead Sea Scrolls. Also, the U.S. government’s top-secret research lab at Los Alamos, New Mexico, is digitizing these Dead Sea Scrolls so that they can be more clearly read. Anyone might ask, “Why would these parties be interested in this material?” This is happening because the Dead Sea Scrolls prescribe all of the elements needed to coerce people to adapt to the one-world political and religious system advocated by these parties. The Dead Sea Scrolls advocate:

1. The confiscation of personal property to the group.
2. The coming of two Messiahs: one a religious prophet, the other a civil leader.

Students of Bible prophecy know that this corresponds exactly to the beast and the false prophet of Revelation. The Dead Sea Scrolls say that the Essenes are “sons of the light,” ruled by the “angel of light.” Bible students know that the “angel of light” is Satan.

Even Google is in on this.

Multispectral Imaging and the Digitization of the Dead Sea Scrolls
and
West Meets East - The Story of Rockefeller Museum

 

[chandlere880]

Who is the Seed that is prophesied to bruise the head of the Serpent ?

The Scriptures expressly tell us in Rom 16:20 that the people living in a City called Cenchrea are precisely the very people whom God has planned to BRUISE the head of Satan

Cenchrea was a port city of Corinth, and here, The Bible is explaining that God had planned to “ BRUISE the head of Satan “ beneath their very feet !

☞ so…. when we go to the prophecy of Genesis concerning Satan being bruised beneath the Feet Of The Seed Of The Woman, the Scripture is explaining that the people of this city called Cenchrea, - specifically, the people of “ the City Of Cenchrea.

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. -===== to the people of the City Of Cenchrea

☞ Therefore…… The Holy Spirit is expressing that because of the obedience of the people of the City Of Cenchrea - Satan shall be bruised under their feet !

This is not referring to the Virgin Mary - and Here the Scriptures are not even limiting the passage to just the people of “ the City Of Cenchrea “ but to all believers who are obedient, all believers who are obedient - Satan shall be bruised under their feet ! The Virgin Mary, Mother Of Jesus did not Live in “ the City Of Cenchrea “ and the Scriptures specifically announce that the people living in this City = people living in this City = Satan shall be bruised under their feet, the people of Cenchrea.

Is it not foolishness to continue to pretend that the Seed Of The Woman in Genesis is referring to one singular individual. Would it not also be foolish to announce that ONLY / EXCLUSIVELY the people living in this City, Cenchrea ✦ Satan shall be bruised under their feet ! - ONLY ?



HOW CAN JESUS BE BOTH - FULLY HUMAN
AND - FULLY GOD
IF MARY WAS NOT HERSELF - FULLY HUMAN

Why have Roman Catholics elevated Mary beyond humanity ?
Remember that when Jesus began his ministry and separated himself from his Mother and Father and the rest of his family - Mary was there to call Him away and out and away from his ministry and bring out of his ministry. Mary repeatedly again and again attempts to take Jesus away from his ministry and lead him back home, this motherly Love and Human Nature would have prevented Jesus from obeying what God had planned for him.


The blessed virgin Mary had absolutely no connection, nor any concept nor understanding of what God was doing concerning his son Jesus Christ. Mary did not understand and repeatedly again and again attempts to take Jesus away from his ministry to prevent Jesus from obeying what God had planned for him.

MARY, AS A WONDERFUL LOVING BEAUTIFUL MOTHER WAS NOT CONNECTED TO GOD IN A SPIRITUAL ASPECT TO RECOGNIZE OR COMPREHEND OR KNOW OF THE MINISTRY AND WORK OF JESUS. MARY WAS SIMPLY A MOTHER WITH A FAMILY WHO LOVED HER FAMILY

This was the Human nature of both Mary and Jesus - only the Spirit Of God in him - could lead him to do what God had planned for him = Mother Mary Could Not. Mother Mary did not receive knowledge of anything concerning Jesus except the knowledge of conception and its supernatural origin.

Mat 13:57 Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and in his own house.
Mrk 6:4 A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

Jesus is saying that he received no recognition and honor as a prophet inside “ in his own home “ among his own family. His own family and mother had no understanding of the supernatural nature of Jesus because Jesus was not born to provide a connection between Mary and God but to provide a connection between all mankind and God. Mary was not singled out and made into a arbitrator or mediator in spiritual things.

Does not it seem that God simply did not make the home and family and the mother of Jesus a centerpiece of his ministry.
and that the Holy Spirit inside the tabernacle was not inside the Ark of the Covenant

 

[chandlere880]

yes doctrox

there has been allot of books and propaganda orbited around the study of the dead sea scrolls

most of The Dead Sea Scrolls are not freely available for the common person to see and review online.

One must be financially invested and academically { spoon fed } topical and subjects and parts of the - Dead Sea Scrolls as a project for reviewing parts ( EDUCATIONAL SUBJECTS ) as historical educational classes and study and involved in an educational program or associated with a propaganda origination in order to see, review and have access to a specific limited range of photos - / limited - of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

I honestly believe that - IF - all of the Dead Sea Scrolls were easily available for the common person to see online, this would create a problem for the Scholarly Societies who have been blackmailed and extorted for their dishonestly in how they have exaggerated and overly inflated and overstated what is exactly existing in the Dead Sea Scrolls

the Scholarly Societies control what can be shown online - who can view the manuscript material - and how they can view it and what portions can be reviewed and seen and what portions are not available in a given paid or educational arrangement.

One must have an invested interest with an organization that will be in a controlled environment as a continuance of " propaganda MOTIVE - to continue to promote and support the exaggerations and this is because there is dishonesty about the contents of what all are contained in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Dead Sea Scrolls are not available and presented freely and easily to the public - without being associated with an organization that controls what you see, what you say and tell others. IN OTHER WORDS - one must pay money and fund the Scholarly Societies by receiving an education and learning - AS A PROGRAM - in a controlled environment that is presenting to you an exaggeration and overly excessive exaggeration of what was truly found as The DEAD SEA SCROLLS

they are dishonest = for example - the Scholarly Societies sell and profit and make money by taking partial verses, partial chapters and partial books of translations made by people such as William Tyndale, John Wycliff or other 14 th century bible translations and the Scholarly Societies will make bible books that they sell as a completed Bible supposed to have been made by early translators -

Scholarly Societies will complete and manufacture the sell and price of the books / bibles made by early translators and sell these bibles as completed books when there are no translations manuscripts existing of the early translators as having actually completed the translation of the Bible. early translators may have translated the Bible IN ITS ENTIRETY / complete whole translations but the Scholarly Societies do not have the manuscripts of this completed Bible translation - they create a completed Bible themselves when they do not have a COMPLETED BODY OF TRANSLATED MANUSCRIPTS for early translations.

the Bible becomes a business - and it very, very profitable

The DEAD SEA SCROLLS - - are are a body of ancient manuscript material that confirm roughly - 35 - 50 % of all that is known and accepted today by Protestants as - the Bible.

this includes confirmation _ for about 1 % of the Greek Septuagint - itself, as it exists today
this includes confirmation _ for about 35 % of the Masoretic manuscripts - itself, as it exists today


Dead Sea Scrolls contained 5 copies of Tobit, 3 manuscripts of the Wisdom of Jesus ben Sirah (Ecclesiasticus),
1 manuscript of the Epistle of Jeremiah (not actually written by Jeremiah).
1 manuscript of The book of Enoch is represented in 12 copies from Qumran,
and 13 manuscripts of Jubilees

The DEAD SEA SCROLLS are very important - its not that the Dead Sea Scrolls contradict or prove the Protestant Bible to be wrong in roughly 50 %

it's simply just that around 25 - 35 % % of the DEAD SEA SCROLLS are missing or do not contain what is contained as the Protestant Bible as a completed Bible.

this is not a problem - the DEAD SEA SCROLLS artifacts discovered - simply have around 25 - 35 % of what is considered as the Protestant Bible. and they are in agreement

this is - what we can see - and perceive and what can be proven and most honestly be understood as truth in a controlled Scholarly Society invested in dishonesty

 

[Behold]

”The apocrypha is a selection of books which were published in the original 1611 King James Bible. … The apocrypha was a part of the KJV for 274 years until being removed in 1885 A.D. …”

Now what the Devil does is create new, new, new, new, new, new, new, new bibles. as that pays his people better, deceives more people each year, and causes more confusion and strife world wide, which is known as "strife and confusion and every evil work", which is the hallmark of the Devil's "fruit".

 

[Matthias]

Now what the Devil does is create new, new, new, new, new, new, new, new bibles. as that pays his people better, deceives more people each year, and causes more confusion and strife world wide, which is known as "strife and confusion and every evil work", which is the hallmark of the Devil's "fruit".

‘Cause the old, old, old, old, old, old, old bibles were no longer effective for his evil work?

Which translation(s) do you approve? Is there a cut off date?

 

[chandlere880]

The NIV text may be quoted in any form (written, visual, electronic or audio), up to and inclusive of five hundred (500) verses without express written permission of the publisher,

{ ONLY } providing { THAT } the verses do not amount to a complete book of the Bible nor do the verses quoted account for twenty-five percent (25%) or more of the total text of the work in which they are quoted.

The Government will uphold a publishers INSPIRED copyright

copyrighted INSPIRATION.

 

[Behold]

‘Cause the old, old, old, old, old, old, old bibles were no longer effective for his evil work?

Which translation(s) do you approve? Is there a cut off date?

Lots of older bibles are junk.........that's true.

I dont tell people on forums what bible to use, i tell them what bibles to avoid.. and there is a main one that seems to be the Devil's favorite., and its the worst of the "New" versions.... and its the most popular, for a while now..........imagine that.

 

[Matthias]

Lots of older bibles are junk.........that's true.

All translations have strengths and weaknesses. Some are better than others.

I dont tell people on forums what bible to use, i tell them what bibles to avoid.. and there is a main one that seems to be the Devil's favorite., and its the worst of the "New" versions.... and its the most popular, for a while now..........imagine that.

Which Bibles do you think we should avoid?

 

[Behold]

All translations have strengths and weaknesses. Some are better than others.

That's a good guess.

But the final answer is more then you can guess, or ever will.

Which Bibles do you think we should avoid?

The NIV

 

[Matthias]

That's a good guess.

But the final answer is more then you can guess, or ever will.





The NIV

When I was working in Malawi I met a maid at the “hotel” I was staying in who was interested in discussing the Bible each morning. She didn’t own one and couldn’t afford to purchase one. A colleague and I went to a used bookstore in Blantyre to buy one and gift it to her. We had three translations to choose from: NIV, KJV & a Chichewa translation. We weren’t / aren’t fluent in Chichewa, so we weren’t in a position to know or ascertain how good it was. We decided on KJV; not ideal but much better than NIV. I think we paid $2 or $3 dollars for it. She was so grateful to receive it. She had it with her every morning while cleaning rooms for the rest of our time there.

Ufumu wa mulungu.

 

[Behold]

When I was working in Malawi I met a maid at the “hotel” I was staying in who was interested in discussing the Bible each morning. She didn’t own one and couldn’t afford to purchase one. A colleague and I went to a used bookstore in Blantyre to buy one and gift it to her. We had three translations to choose from: NIV, KJV & a Chichewa translation. We weren’t / aren’t fluent in Chichewa, so we weren’t in a position to know or ascertain how good it was. We decided on KJV; not ideal but much better than NIV. I think we paid $2 or $3 dollars for it. She was so grateful to receive it. She had it with her every morning while cleaning rooms for the rest of our time there.

Ufumu wa mulungu.

That was very kind.

I have no idea how many NT & Psalm, i have given away, from 1991- somewhere in the '2000s.

I literally stopped because "word publishers" went out of business, and i could no longer get that Bible, and its the best ive ever seen, tho it does not contain an OT.
its slightly larger then average print, and incredibly easy to read.
What i would do, is turn this bible into a Teaching concordance for them...>Id ink in all the verses that connected the doctrines...
Took time but loved to do it.
The last one i had, was my personal one, filled with notes, and verses written to connect doctrines.
On one of my Trips from Netanya Israel, where i have a place to live....... i was traveling to the States in '2013, and i left this Bible on the Jet.
So, whoever got that one......is amazed as that was a work of God, writtten all over it.
I hope a Christian found it, but if an unbeliever found it, then they found something indeed............in both cases.

These NT and Psalms Bibles were Leather bound... and i'd put the person name on the front in Gold for them.

One of the Careers i had that landed between working in HealthCare and the next one , this place had 300 employees in it.
So, not long after i was there people found out that i was giving Bibles away.. and someone asked me "Are you a Priest"... and of course, they wanted a bible.......many did., and i was happy to make them happy with that special gift.

 

[Matthias]

This is from Hamlet, written about ten years before KJV was first published.

Do people who use KJV have difficulty understanding what the Bard is saying? Many of them do. Why is that the case?

Does what he says about death align with what scripture says about death?

 

[doctrox]

This is from Hamlet, written about ten years before KJV was first published.

The premise that Hamlet is some kind of a reference point is faulty.

Do people who use KJV have difficulty understanding what the Bard is saying? Many of them do. Why is that the case?

Because "Shakespeare" was yet another intel project.

The Government will uphold a publishers INSPIRED copyright

copyrighted INSPIRATION.

Concerning the motivation$ of men and their copyrighted invention$:

I have in my hand The Holy Bible, the actual title of the King James Bible. Neither on its indicia page, nor elsewhere, is the word “copyright” found. It is in the public domain.

Conversely, modern translations are protected by copyright law. Permission must be obtained from, and fees paid to, the men who claim to own these derivative works. And different publishers have different terms.

There are fundamental differences between a “copyright” and a “letters patent."

Copyright: "The legal protection given to authors and artists to prevent reproduction of their work without their consent. The owner of a copyright has the exclusive right to print, reprint, publish, copy and sell the material covered by the copyright." The New Standard Encyclopedia, volume 3, page 565.

LETTERS PATENT. The name of an instrument granted by the government to convey a right to the patentee; as, a patent for a tract of land; or to secure to him a right which he already possesses, as a patent for a new invention or discovery; Letters patent are a matter of record. They are so called because they are not sealed up, but are granted open. Vide Patent. Bouvier's Dictionary of Law, 1856.

A Letters Patent is about preservation; a copyright is about restriction.

So this is how it plays out in the real world:

Obviously the KJB's crown patent is not the same as a copyright, as it was created before copyright laws. The proof is in the pudding, as anyone may reproduce the text, throughout the world, freely. God had his Bible done before the invention of the copyright. The crown patent simply related to the care and control of printing an accurate text back then and was overseen by the government which 'authorized' the text. That same government, although now liberal, still has the responsibility of guarding the veracity of the text within England. They have always allowed anyone in the world to print it, and consequently could never go back and change their mind and not allow this. Even if one wanted to say it had a copyright, that copyright would be null and void, because they have set the precedent of allowing it to be printed worldwide. One of the legal caveats about current 'copyright' law is that if you do not restrict people from printing your material, you lose your right to come back later and insist that they do. So either way, the KJB, as the word of God, unlike the modern copyrighted versions of the KJB, is not bound.

God made certain that the historic English Bible (e.g. KJB) had the correct "equivalency" long before copyright laws were created worldwide. He makes certain that the antique Queen's Patent is never enforced to curtail its spread in Great Britain.

Which Bibles do you think we should avoid?

...for easy starters, anything copyrighted.

 

[Matthias]

The premise that Hamlet is some kind of a reference point is faulty.

It is the same Elizabethan language that is used in the KJV, isn’t it? It touches on the subject of death, doesn’t it? To be is to exist. Not to be is to not exist.

Because "Shakespeare" was yet another intel project.

The link is to a 12 page opinion piece. I haven’t tsken the time to read it. Would you provide a brief summary?

 

[doctrox]

The link is to a 12 page opinion piece. I haven’t tsken the time to read it. Would you provide a brief summary?

Overall, the piece is the writer's opinion, but the documentation, facts and genealogies he lays down are not opinion.

If you can spare the time to read these forum threads, you certainly have time to read the piece.

It is the same Elizabethan language that is used in the KJV, isn’t it? It touches on the subject of death, doesn’t it? To be is to exist. Not to be is to not exist.

No, the language is not. You're simply conflating your claim of alleged difficulty that KJV readers may have, with Intel's "Shakespeare writing committee."