THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[Runningman]

ONE . Me and my Father will make our abode on that man . THERE BE ONLY ONE HOLY SPIRIT
And now for another lovely reminder .
God IS HIS WORD and his WORD has the last word and is the JUDGE and will judge
all on the last day .
He who hears not my words has one that judges him . THE WORDS that i have spoken shall be HIS JUDGE .
man and his ever changing ways and words to fit society do change and flow the ever changing tides of life
BUT ITS NOT MAN WHO HAS THE FINAL SAY . And not a word one of the LORD gonna fail .
I suggest bible time and may we all enjoy love and embrace TRUTH . have a blessed day now .

Yet the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son in Trinitarianism. The Father is said to be a Spirit, and He’s holy. Jesus is also said to have become a life-giving Spirit, and He’s holy. So the Father and Son are both holy and both a Spirit, yet they are not the same as the Holy Spirit. What I am getting at is that the Holy Spirit isn’t really a third person. I understand why people believe that, but it is an illusion, I think. For example, where do we ever find the Holy Spirit in the same room, talking or doing anything with the Father and Son?

 

[A Freeman]

It is everywhere implied in scripture WHO Jesus Christ is, without being CRASSLY stated. We have people here insisting on crassness rather than relying on the Holy Spirit for discernment and understanding. "He being in the form of God did not consider equality with God something to be grasped but being found in the form of a man made Himself a servant." "Thus it becometh us now to fulfill all righteousness"....not because He needed to be baptized........but to set the example and act as a forerunner and point of the spear for us mere mortals.

There isn't a single inference in Scripture to support the claim that Jesus is/was God, or that Jesus (or Christ) were/are part of some nonsensical 3=1 "trinity". Even the RCC, the inventors of the pagan "trinity" admit that.

“Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in scripture ... But the Protestant Churches have themselves accepted such dogmas, AS THE TRINITY, for which there is no such precise authority in the Gospels,”
— (Assumption of Mary, Life magazine, Oct 30, 1950, p. 51)

Even the passage you've cited does NOT say that, if properly translated and understood. It should be self-evident that being in the form or image/likeness of another unequivocally means that there are two SEPARATE individuals to compare, just as it should be obvious that God doesn't need to humble Himself nor can God be killed, nor is God obedient to anyone else, etc. And how could anyone (including God Himself) be exalted higher than The Most High God?

Philippians 2:5-11
2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2:6 Who, being in the likeness of God, thought it not correct to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made into the likeness of men:
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and GIVEN him a name which is above every name:
2:10 That at the name of the Saviour every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in Earth, and [things] under the earth;
2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Christ Jesus [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Compare with:

Colossians 1:12-15
1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

 

[Lizbeth]

There isn't a single inference in Scripture to support the claim that Jesus is/was God, or that Jesus (or Christ) were/are part of some nonsensical 3=1 "trinity". Even the RCC, the inventors of the pagan "trinity" admit that.

“Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in scripture ... But the Protestant Churches have themselves accepted such dogmas, AS THE TRINITY, for which there is no such precise authority in the Gospels,”
— (Assumption of Mary, Life magazine, Oct 30, 1950, p. 51)

Even the passage you've cited does NOT say that, if properly translated and understood. It should be self-evident that being in the form or image/likeness of another unequivocally means that there are two SEPARATE individuals to compare, just as it should be obvious that God doesn't need to humble Himself nor can God be killed, nor is God obedient to anyone else, etc. And how could anyone (including God Himself) be exalted higher than The Most High God?

Philippians 2:5-11
2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2:6 Who, being in the likeness of God, thought it not correct to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made into the likeness of men:
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and GIVEN him a name which is above every name:
2:10 That at the name of the Saviour every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in Earth, and [things] under the earth;
2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Christ Jesus [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Compare with:

Colossians 1:12-15
1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

See how beautifully and poetically in spiritual language the Holy Spirit inspired scriptures puts things:

"Without controversy how great is the mystery of Godliness: God was manifest in the flesh…"

"I have been with you all this time and you still do not know me…? If you have seen me you have seen the Father….."

"The second man is the Lord from heaven….."

"We are eyewitnesses of His glory…."


What more do people want? Well, there is more, but that should more than suffice. Jesus didn’t run around saying that He was God because that would have been crass and unseemly. But it is everywhere implied in scripture that this is Who He is. God wouldn’t be telling us to have our faith and trust in a mere man when He said we are not to have any gods before Him and cursed is the one who trusts in man. And it sure is a great mystery as the bible says, I wouldn’t be running around trying to figure this out with my own understanding that’s for sure.

No true Christian is going to deny the deity of Christ, He has been revealed to our spirit.

 

[JLB]

First:
2 Thess. 2:2 in older manuscripts doesn't include the word "Christ" in the text, but "the Lord". Check here Center for New Testament Restoration

Second:
Even if there are some texts talking about "the day of Jesus Christ", like others talking about "the day of Jehovah" doesn't mean that Jesus is Jehovah. Jesus said:

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 4:17-5:2



The Day of the Lord refers to Jesus Christ coming with His saints from heaven to gather His people and destroy the wicked.

Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints. Jude 1:14


Jesus is the Lord who is coming with His saints, on the Day of the LORD.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5

 

[JLB]

If you do a little research, (which I see that you have not) you will realize that “the day of Yahweh” is indeed what is mentioned in Zeph 1:14 and the quote from 2 Thess 2:1-2 is speaking about the same day and the same Lord…but it isn’t Jesus.

The Day of the Lord refers to Jesus Christ coming with His saints from heaven to gather His people and destroy the wicked.

Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints. Jude 1:14


Jesus is the Lord who is coming with His saints, on the Day of the LORD.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5

 

[JLB]

So, if I start calling that day The Day of Wrangler, that makes me God?

That would make you a heretic.

 

[Ritajanice]

You are all wrong, but at least you have fertile mind.

More like fertile soil, which represents the heart ,and there he has been maturing and growing me by his powerful Living Holy Spirit..for the past 33 yrs, before I could properly hear the Spirit ,he’s had to clear all the muck and rubbish I was taught by my parents and the world out of me...my mind is. continually being renewed..Praise God.

The soil is the life and heart of each human being. The parable tells us that much seed is lost when falling into unreceptive soil. However, when seed and soil connect and interact properly, astonishing growth occurs. “And some fell into good soil and grew, and yielded a hundredfold.”

The Holy Spirit works in the heart / spirit of Gods child ,for that is where we know him..in Jesus Name ,Amen!

Born Again of imperishable seed, a Living seed that liveth and abideth forever...a seed that just keeps on growing and maturing me in Spirit knowledge, this world is of no interest to me..

How could this human know God?

God did it all and the Spirit continues to do it all,I’m his vessel/ child and he will use me all according to his will..not my will Father, your will be done..I adore you and worship you, with all my heart, mind and soul..teach me your ways until the day my flesh dies, I have only one master, Almighty God, my Spirit Father.

 

[A Freeman]

Hello @A Freeman,

I just go by what I gather from the text most of the time, and try to go by the Holy Spirit; cause all we got is evidences, to go from. Can you just summarize what that link is?

Thank-you for your reply. Agreed concerning the evidence.

By link, do you mean our link to God (via His Holy Spirit) please or something else?

 

[Scott Downey]

Yet the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son in Trinitarianism. The Father is said to be a Spirit, and He’s holy. Jesus is also said to have become a life-giving Spirit, and He’s holy. So the Father and Son are both holy and both a Spirit, yet they are not the same as the Holy Spirit. What I am getting at is that the Holy Spirit isn’t really a third person. I understand why people believe that, but it is an illusion, I think. For example, where do we ever find the Holy Spirit in the same room, talking or doing anything with the Father and Son?

Jesus Promises Another Helper​

15 “If you love Me, [d]keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

 

[Scott Downey]

Indwelling of the Father and the Son​

19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and [f]manifest Myself to him.”

22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”

23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

 

[A Freeman]

Adding to the 50+ verses where Christ is referenced as the Son OF God that were previously shared, please see another 80+ verses where Jesus refers to himself as "the Son of Man", something that God told us He could NEVER be (Num. 23:19).

Numbers 23:19 GOD [IS] NOT A MAN, that He should lie; NEITHER THE SON OF MAN, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good (i.e. God is omnipotent – Christ, by His own admission, is NOT omnipotent – John 5:30)?

Jesus referring to Himself as the “Son of Man” (at least 81 times):-

Matthew (30): 8:20, 9:6, 10:23, 11:19, 12:8, 12:32, 12:40, 13:37, 13:41, 16:13, 16:27, 16:28, 17:9, 17:12, 17:22, 18:11, 19:28, 20:18, 20:28, 24:27, 24:30, 24:37, 24:39, 24:44, 25:13, 25:31, 26:2, 26:24, 26:45, 26:64

Mark (14): 2:10, 2:28, 8:31, 8:38, 9:9, 9:12, 9:31, 10:33, 10:45, 13:26, 13:34, 14:21, 14:41, 14:62,

Luke (26): 5:24, 6:4, 6:22, 7:34, 9:22, 9:26, 9:44, 9:56, 9:58, 11:30, 12:8, 12:10, 12:40, 17:22, 17:24, 17:26, 17:30, 18:8, 18:31, 19:10, 21:27, 21:36, 22:22, 22:48, 22:69, 24:7

John (11): 1:51, 3:13, 3:14, 5:27, 6:27, 6:53, 6:62, 8:19, 12:23, 12:34, 13:31

Anyone who mistakenly believes that Jesus is/was God is calling Christ-Jesus a liar, and thus is working for Satan (the Opposer), as Christ told us repeatedly that He is NOT God and that His Father is His (Christ's) God, just as Father is our God.

Christ is the TRUTH (John 14:6) SENT by Father (God) IN THE FLESH (John 1:14), i.e. as the “Son of Man”. Christ is NOT a liar, as “trinitarians” and those who falsely claim Jesus is God would have you believe.

Believe Christ and the words directly from the mouth of Jesus, instead of unwisely choosing to believe in lies about Him.

 

[A Freeman]

In addition to the 130+ verses already shared where Christ is referred to as "the Son of God" and Jesus is referred to as "the Son of Man", please see the 50+ references below telling us that Christ was SENT by God:

Matthew (3): 10:40, 15:24, 21:37

Mark (2): 9:37, 12:6

Luke (6): 4:18, 4:26, 4:43, 9:48, 10:16, 20:13

John (41): 3:17, 3:34, 4:34, 5:23, 5:24, 5:30, 5:36, 5:37, 5:38, 6:29, 6:38, 6:39, 6:40, 6:44, 6:57, 7:16, 7:28, 7:29, 7:33, 8:7, 8:9, 8:17, 8:20, 8:33, 9:4, 10:36, 11:42, 12:44, 12:45, 12:49, 13:16, 13:20, 14:24, 15:21, 16:5, 17:3, 17:18, 17:21, 17:23, 17:25, 20:21

It doesn't tell us that God sent Himself, or that He became His own Son, nor any of the myriad of irrational assumptions that have been put forth as excuses to justify the pagan "trinity", adopted and co-opted from the Babylonians to invent the RCC's nonsensical 3=1 deity.

Note: The Romans are the direct descendants of the Babylonians, and thus the same race of people.

 

[David in NJ]

Do you know what people believed back then? They believed that the Messiah would be an angel or a theophany. Therefore, to believe that Jesus is the Christ is to accept that a man, not a deity, is the messiah.

Good Morning CadyandZoe,

The Ancients KNEW that the MESSIAH would be a DIVINE Man unlike any other.

 

[David in NJ]

My goodness! There you go, once again relegating Yahweh / Jehovah (God) second fiddle to Jesus (the ‘one whom God sent’ John 17:3; 3:16)!

Joel 2:32 (ASV) says…”And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be delivered…”

Proverbs 18:10 ASV says….
”The name of Jehovah is a strong tower; The righteous runneth into it, and is safe.”

Jesus is our Savior, because “God made” him such! (Acts 2:36) And “God exalted him and gave him the name”, Jesus did not give it to himself! — Philippians 2:9.

HalleluYAH

the OT Scripture of Truth you posted is declaring exactly who the Lord Jesus Christ

Joel 2:32 (ASV) says…”And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be delivered…”
Acts 4:12 - "no other Name given amongst men whereby we can be SAVED = the Lord Jesus Christ

"To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints." - 1 Thess 3:13

Can you SEE now the One True LORD = JESUS the CHRIST

 

[Scott Downey]

The Day of the Lord refers to Jesus Christ coming with His saints from heaven to gather His people and destroy the wicked.

Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints. Jude 1:14


Jesus is the Lord who is coming with His saints, on the Day of the LORD.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5

Here is this in Jude.

WEB
For there are certain men who crept in secretly, even those who were long ago written about for this condemnation: ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into indecency, and denying our only Master, God, and Lord, Jesus Christ.

 

[Lizbeth]

HalleluYAH

the OT Scripture of Truth you posted is declaring exactly who the Lord Jesus Christ

Joel 2:32 (ASV) says…”And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be delivered…”
Acts 4:12 - "no other Name given amongst men whereby we can be SAVED = the Lord Jesus Christ

"To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints." - 1 Thess 3:13

Can you SEE now the One True LORD = JESUS the CHRIST

Amen, it's clear in scripture that God is Saviour. And what does it mean that Jesus is LORD? The Lord is God!

 

[Wrangler]

God sent His Only begotten Son into the world, then I am of a mind that God had a Son to send. Is that unreasonable?

No. It’s simply that the son is not God.

Juxtaposition. If the trinity was Biblical, there would not be a single verse like above. It would read ‘the Father’ so loved the world.’ It is significant that God is juxtaposed with Christ.

And this juxtaposition is ubiquitous.

 

[David in NJ]

@Lizbeth @Scott Downey @amigo de christo @Taken @JLB @Nancy

i am sharing this with you because you know and love the TRUTH

WHY 3 in Scripture???
Genesis - Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our likeness = 3
Exodus - Elohe Abraham Elohe Isaac Elohe Jacob = 3

Isaiah 6:3 “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; = 3
Revelation 4:8 ’Holy, holy, holy = 3
is the Lord God Almighty, = 3
’ who Was, and Is, and is to Come.” = 3

Lord God Almighty = SON FATHER HOLY SPIRIT the 3 are ONE

We cannot fully understand this - only believe our FATHER's every word

Hebrews 11:3 - By FAITH we understand............. = understanding follows FAITH in the Word that was God

 

[Scott Downey]

And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?” 3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.

4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open [a]and read the scroll, or to look at it. 5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and [b]to loose its seven seals.”

6 And I looked, [c]and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

Worthy Is the Lamb​

8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made [d]us kings[e] and priests to our God;
And [f]we shall reign on the earth.”
11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”
13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:

“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and [g]ever!”
14 Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the [h]twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped [i]Him who lives forever and ever.

 

[APAK]

HalleluYAH

the OT Scripture of Truth you posted is declaring exactly who the Lord Jesus Christ

Joel 2:32 (ASV) says…”And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be delivered…”
Acts 4:12 - "no other Name given amongst men whereby we can be SAVED = the Lord Jesus Christ

"To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints." - 1 Thess 3:13

Can you SEE now the One True LORD = JESUS the CHRIST

Still in a world of illusion and self-deception are we?

The verses in Joel and Acts are quite different as they also have one common theme, salvation. These differences are significant. And you cannot just substitute the LORD God Almighty in for his Son, now can we.

The verses differ in context, scope, and timing, and the subject. One is the LORD God and the other his future Son. They cannot mix and you cannot equate them as the same. When are you going to graduate for kindergarten and learn the scripture beyond reading them, all at face value?

Differences:​

1. Context: Joel 2:32 is part of a prophetic passage describing the LORD God’s judgment and restoration, while Acts 4:12 is a response to the early Christian church’s persecution and a declaration of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.
2. Scope: Joel 2:32 appears to be addressing a broader audience, including Gentiles/other nations, while Acts 4:12 focuses specifically on the nation of Israel.
3. Timing: Joel 2:32 speaks of a future event, while Acts 4:12 emphasizes the availability of salvation in the present time, even in difficult circumstances.

Joel 2:32 is a prophetic passage describing the LORD God’s restoration, while Acts 4:12 is a declaration of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. They are very different!