Revelation 9:1 - 11 Who are these locusts representing?

[CTK]

I was not. It was God's Word I quoted that proves you are wrong with your interpretation.


What verses did you quote that refuted my position? There were none!


Huh? And? Show me the examples. And what does the context of the verses tell you?


No Satan is NOT a created being, or an entity. Like I said many times, it is a SPIRIT within men. We all had it!

Mark 8:31-33

• "And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
• And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him and began to rebuke him.
• But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men."

It was Peter's spirit that came against Christ's will, correct his conceptions of the Messiah as a Earthly king by explaining the true nature of His Kingdom, suffering, purpose, and atonement and resurrection. Peter did not fully understood it until he was filled with the Holy Spirit after Pentecost.




No, Satan was not. I have explained this before.


LOL. It was not Satan himself. It is man's spirit that came against Christ and His Kingdom. The very fact that all men aren't called, or all men aren't chosen, proves that it's not about what man wants (free will), but the sovereign will of God.

John 6:44

• "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Which necessarily means, it's impossible for the wicked to come to Christ "unless" God draws (original drags) Him. And the very "fact" that God does not draw "everyone" pretty much puts to rest the theory of anyone can come. Christ Himself said it was impossible for anyone to come to Him except God do the work to draw them. So much for why God would ask man to do what He couldn't do--like come to Christ. This is why all men had spirit of disobedience to begin with. We all born with it! We were dead like a dry bone! We can't resurrect ourselves to accept Christ. No, Christ have to restain our spirit of disobedience to allow the Holy Spirit come and reveal the Truth for us to be saved. It is all God's work. Not our own!

When Christ cast the devils out of people, it is to prove that He is indeed the Messsiah and for us, as Elect, to be able to cast the devil out of people with the preaching of the Gospel. Not physically cast Satan out of their body, but spiritually.




We worship Christ in spirit and truth AFTER we receive His spirit that replaces our spirit of disobedience (aka Satan) that we had since we were born!



Show me some examples with Scripture, first.

Ok and thanks for you response. I have a good understanding of your beliefs concerning the evil one. God bless always.

 

[Verily]

Verily writes,

TribulationSigns, I am beginning to read your posts. Forgive me for how I did this, I can't seem to snag a quote and turn the page and move on from there. So I will just take up where I might see a contradiction, and let you explain further.

You had said to Spiritual Israelite

"Satan doesn't give command to Apollyon, Satan "is" Apollyon"

Verily writes,

Which I assume you take from here obviously,

Rev 9:11 And they had A KING over them, WHICH IS THE ANGEL of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name "Apollyon"

So when you say,

TribulationSigns posted

I hope you understand that Satan is NOT an angel or even created being as most thought (more on this some other time).

Verily writes,

That appears to be a little contradictory.

But let's say, you change "the word" Angel/aggelos/messenger (of the bottomless pit) to just mean "a messenger" as you do) rather than "angel" (in the certain ways that we are supposedly hoodwinked concerning them). We know our Lord is the messenger of the covenant, which can be defined as mal'ak/messenger/angels. However, Jesus was made a little lower than the angels/aggelos/messengers (as it pertains to the nature he took on) but still a messenger himself.

To me, sometimes the picture is speaking more of their nature and lesso their office (if I spoke correctly). It says, Jesus emptied himself being made lower than the angels/messengers (specifically) according to their nature (in order to suffer death) but he himself remained in the office of messenger (or sent one). So I believe it shows a twofold thing between them.

That aside, if you just want to say, "Satan is not an angel" you really mean by nature more or less, I am supposing since you equate an angel to a messenger only (basically in a office) but not an angel according to "a nature" also. But there is a nature of angels (or as you rather, "messengers") that our Lord was "made lower than", and that part that was made lower than had everything to do with his suffering death (when the angels do not die).

 

[ewq1938]

Again, according to God's word, it is not a matter of man's choice to be good, but of his congenital, inherited sin problem.

You claimed man is created wicked and used a verse that didn't support the claim. Then I used scripture to prove your claim wrong that says we are made upright and later change.

Now you claim inherited sin. That also is not scriptural and I can prove it as well.

Listen to scripture, not to unscriptural doctrines of man.

Eze 18:2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
Eze 18:3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
Eze 18:6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,
Eze 18:7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;
Eze 18:8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,
Eze 18:9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 18:10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,
Eze 18:11 And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,
Eze 18:12 Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,
Eze 18:13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
Eze 18:14 Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,
Eze 18:15 That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife,
Eze 18:16 Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,
Eze 18:17 That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.
Eze 18:18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.
Eze 18:19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Inherited sin, original sin, inherited sin nature, it's all lies.

 

[Jay Ross]

I thought that I had presented the answer to the question in post #151, but the so called experts in this thread have chosen to provide no rebuttal. I just wonder how wrong their opinions on this subject matter are

 

[TribulationSigns]

I thought that I had presented the answer to the question in post #151, but the so called experts in this thread have chosen to provide no rebuttal. I just wonder how wrong their opinions on this subject matter are

So-called expert won't respond...well becasue what you wrote was nothing but speculation:

"The Locusts that come out of the Bottomless Pit in around 1,020 years from now, will be the judged Kings of the earth who will be judged at Armageddon in around 20 years from now and at the same time the heavenly host will also be judged and they, the judged kings of the earth and the heavenly hosts, will be gathered together and imprisoned for many days in a pit to await the time of their punishment."​

​

The Locusts will come out about 1,020 years from now? Based on what Scripture support do you claim that battle of Armageddon will be about 20 years from today? Do you even know the nature and purpose of the battle of Armaggeddon anyway? And imprisoned for many days in pit and why? You have no clues about what you are talking about. For example, what is the purpose of the bottomless pit? Exactly what are the smoke locusts The locusts come out of the bottomless pit. who are they exactly? Why smoke locusts? How does the smoke affect the sun and the air as a reason? Etc. etc. Can you biblically explain these? Doubtfully, especially since you got the timing part all wrong.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You claimed man is created wicked and used a verse that didn't support the claim. Then I used scripture to prove your claim wrong that says we are made upright and later change.

Now you claim inherited sin. That also is not scriptural and I can prove it as well.

Listen to scripture, not to unscriptural doctrines of man.

Eze 18:2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
Eze 18:3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
Eze 18:6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,
Eze 18:7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;
Eze 18:8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,
Eze 18:9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 18:10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,
Eze 18:11 And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,
Eze 18:12 Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,
Eze 18:13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
Eze 18:14 Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,
Eze 18:15 That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife,
Eze 18:16 Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,
Eze 18:17 That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.
Eze 18:18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.
Eze 18:19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Inherited sin, original sin, inherited sin nature, it's all lies.

Huh? What the heck are you babbling about? What is your point? This will not disprove the fact that ALL mankind inherited sin from Adam and Eve.

Rom 5:12
(12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

And King David lamented the fact that...

Psa 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

So why did you quote Ezekiel 18:20 that the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father? LOL! I think you misunderstood what the whole chapter is about!

 

[Verily]

No, it wasn't. Read carefully:

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

The serpent (the spirit of disobedience found within man) is more subtil than any beast that the Lord had made. It does not say that the Lord made the serpent. Selah!

How is this incorrect when it shows the following

Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them:

and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

It was Adam who named the serpent which was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made

Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field

He is the first beast named to come into the picture in Chapter 3

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

After the serpent deceived the woman, the LORD God cursed him to go on his belly

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

If it is the serpent's curse to go about on his belly what did the serpent go about on before he was cursed to do so?

The last Adam, Jesus Christ calls two-footed men serpents Mat 23:33 Ye serpents

And these serpents, similarly through their good words and speeches deceive the simple which are currently serving their own bellies

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Of the same as Paul writes,

2 Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

And he is speaking of he that cometh and preacheth another Jesus

2 Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Setting that aside

We seem to agree that Satan is both an Angel and a King, but there is some contention between Angel (according to a specific Nature, or just Angel according to an office/messenger). Both are shown. And since Angels do not die and Satan can be bound for a thousand years that he is more an angel by nature as well (whom Jesus was made a lower than for the suffering of death).

An angel can be a king, and this one is both

Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, Whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

And Satan, who is the devil (whose condemnation is pride 1Ti 3:6) is shown the same in Leviathan

Job 41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

And just as Leviathan is shown as a king as is the he that is both king or angel over the bottomless pit I would think it agreeable that Satan could similarly be shown in Isaiah 27:1 which shows Leviathan is that crooked serpent, even as the dragon can be shown in both the following (in the earth and in the sea)

The great dragon, serpent, Devil, Satan here

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And Leviathan, the piercing and crooked serpent, and the dragon here

Isaiah 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Says He made Leviathan

Psalm 104:36 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.

Shows the LORD made Leviathan so it agrees that the LORD also made the serpent seeing the two are shown as the same since the serpent is shown in what relates to the sea and that which is cast out into the earth in the above

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

Same here, says his hand formed the crooked serpent

Job 26:3 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

Rev 20:22 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

 

[TribulationSigns]

It was Adam who named the serpent which was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made

Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field

He is the first beast named to come into the picture in Chapter 3

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

After the serpent deceived the woman, the LORD God cursed him to go on his belly

You don't get it. Still!

Serpent = cursed unclean spirit of man! Not a created being.

God cursed the serpent in Genesis to go upon its belly that the dust should be its food all the days of thy life. It is UNSAVED MAN that is at enmity with the Woman. God, not Adam, called the Serpent subtil because the MIND is a crafty and cunning part of mankind - more subtil than any beast God has made another than...MAN! Do you not realize that the serpent worked WITHIN EVE's mind when she lusted after the fruit when she should not even consider to eat. It was HER SPIRIT that leads her to sin. Corruption begun in the mind's eye and leading to sin. It has nothing to do with naming animals!

 

[Verily]

You don't get it. Still!

Serpent = cursed unclean spirit of man! Not a created being.

God cursed the serpent in Genesis to go upon its belly that the dust should be its food all the days of thy life. It is UNSAVED MAN that is at enmity with the Woman. God, not Adam, called the Serpent subtil because the MIND is a crafty and cunning part of mankind - more subtil than any beast God has made another than...MAN! Do you not realize that the serpent worked WITHIN EVE's mind when she lusted after the fruit when she should not even consider to eat. It was HER SPIRIT that leads her to sin. Corruption begun in the mind's eye and leading to sin. It has nothing to do with naming animals!

You are all over the place

 

[TribulationSigns]

You are all over the place

 

[ewq1938]

Huh? What the heck are you babbling about? What is your point? This will not disprove the fact that ALL mankind inherited sin from Adam and Eve.

Rom 5:12
(12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

And King David lamented the fact that...

Psa 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

So why did you quote Ezekiel 18:20 that the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father? LOL! I think you misunderstood what the whole chapter is about!

Because it proves no one inherits sin from their parents. Rom 5 says death is inherited not sin and David spoke about himself not anyone else. Got any more misunderstood scriptures?

 

[ewq1938]

You don't get it. Still!

Serpent = cursed unclean spirit of man! Not a created being.

This is satan denial. Almost as dangerous as antichrist denial.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Because it proves no one inherits sin from their parents. Rom 5 says death is inherited not sin and David spoke about himself not anyone else. Got any more misunderstood scriptures?

LOL!!!!!

We all are sinners, to begin with! My goodness!

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

The spirit of disobedience is sin and the wage of sin is death! Get it? This is Bible 101! We all got it from Adam and Eve - the spirit of disobedience!

This applies to David and all of us. We all were wicked to begin with before we are born again. What spirit do you suppose we had before we were born again with Spirit of God (Holy Spirit)? Humm??

Psa 58:3
(3) The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Rom 5:12
(12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Hello?!

 

[TribulationSigns]

This is satan denial. Almost as dangerous as antichrist denial.

The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with that.

 

[ewq1938]

We all are sinners, to begin with! My goodness!

No we aren't and I proved that already.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No we aren't and I proved that already.

Not at all. You really don't understand how or why we all ended up with the spirit of disobedience (which is sin) initially from Eve/Adam. I quoted verses that confirmed exactly this! It was your denial, lack of understanding, and misapplication of Scripture that are the real problem!

 

[ewq1938]

Not at all.

Wrong. See Revelation 9:1 - 11 Who are these locusts representing?

 

[Verily]

I cannot see how the Lord did not form or make him, just posting the following for the record

The LORD made the serpent

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

It says His hand formed the crooked serpent

Job 26:3 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

It says the LORD made leviathan

Psalm 104:36 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.

And here is leviathan the piercing and crooked serpent that his hand has formed mentioned together here as being the same as the dragon

Isaiah 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

The old serpent that the LORD made is called the Devil and Satan

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,

which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Job says the deceived and the deceiver are his

Job 12:16 With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.

 

[ewq1938]

I cannot see how the Lord did not form or make him, just posting the following for the record

The LORD made the serpent

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

It says His hand formed the crooked serpent

Job 26:3 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

It says the LORD made leviathan

Psalm 104:36 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.

And here is leviathan the piercing and crooked serpent that his hand has formed mentioned together here as being the same as the dragon

Isaiah 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

The old serpent that the LORD made is called the Devil and Satan

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,

which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Job says the deceived and the deceiver are his

Job 12:16 With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.

It's just satan denial. I'm sure satan himself started that belief and got people to actually believe he doesn't exist and is nota real, created being. There is a similar teaching that the antichrist doesn't exist.

 

[Verily]

It's just satan denial. I'm sure satan himself started that belief and got people to actually believe he doesn't exist and is nota real, created being. There is a similar teaching that the antichrist doesn't exist.

I never heard of such a thing ewq1938, it does speak of being taken captive by him at his will

2 Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.