THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
New topic.

Do you have a guardian angel? - testimonies ​

i have THREE

Stop by and tell us what that means.

[

 

[RLT63]

I finally told the elders it was a false teaching, and they got mad and said not to tell anyone, and then one of them challenged me and said I was speaking against the Lord's anointed. So, there was nothing else that could be done. They took offense at me. And over the next few years, half the elders died. I have talked with people that go there, and they say he is not preaching the message he used to as they have not heard him talk that way. So it could be I shook them enough they told the pastor to no longer preach that anymore, but I know he still believes it as I have talked with him since. And we are friendly but he knows how I feel.

Preterism seems to make a lot of sense until you get to Revelation, then it doesn't fit at all

 

[RLT63]

If you notice those are Old Testament scriptures.
One God in the Old Testament.
The Jews believed in one God.
Christians believe in Yahweh 1, Yeshua 2, Holy Spirit 3.
End of confusion.

What do you believe in?

 

[Grailhunter]

What do you believe in?

I think I just told you what I believe in.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I left a church I had been going to for over 10 years once, as I was more interested in Truth than they were. Yes, it is complicated. If you know what full preterist is, you might agree with me. The new pastor was such, and I objected, and then decided I did not want to be associated with a church where the leadership supported that teaching. I thought it especially bad as he was the former youth pastor and had been teaching the kids that for several years, including my 2 kids, and none of the adult people I knew there were aware of this.

He taught them there was no sudden destruction coming at the return of Christ, the world was just getting better and better over time with all the new technologies coming out. Believing anything about a coming antichrist or beast government was just too scary and all of revelation, all of it happened in 70AD. And when Christ returned everyone would be a Christian, and the reason Christ had not yet returned was the church was lazy and not converting the entire world. And none of that church leadership had any problem with that.

I say this because it is hard to leave a church where you have been going a long time and have friends and family there, and a JW would be shunned if they said they believed in the Trinity as Truth. People make decisions and the people I talked with said it dd not matter as it was not a salvation issue, so they did not care.

I would have left too

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then all you are left with is an insufficient human sacrifice. In fact, no sacrifice at all because your Trinitarian belief demands that all members of the Godhead are irrevocably connected to one another and cannot be divided.

This just shows you do not know our belief.

I wish people would at least try to find out what others really believe before they start attacking them as false teachers.

 

[Scott Downey]

Preterism seems to make a lot of sense until you get to Revelation, then it doesn't fit at all

Especially FULL Preterism. They say there is no future left to happen according to scripture, it already happened. So for them Revelation is over and done.

And we are living in a new earth and heaven now, after the destruction of the earth and heaven with fall of Jerusalem in 70AD

Actually they miss when the NC started, it started before 70 AD

 

[Scott Downey]

So when you read this here, they say the Day of the Lord already happened. It is past and occurred in 70 AD
The elements burning was the OC temple and the end of that world

It's not unlike when of Christ it says,
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

And yet they deny and change what it says.
And you can't change their mind, it is like they are locked into their theology.
And then they say we are worried about you...

This already happened in 70 AD?

The Day of the Lord​

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

 

[Scott Downey]

The mystery of God shown here, is that 'God' includes the Father and the Son.

to the knowledge of the mystery of God, [b]both of the Father and of Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.


Colossians 2
1 For I want you to know what a great conflict[a] I have for you and those in Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh, 2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, [b]both of the Father and of Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

4 Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with persuasive words. 5 For though I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing [c]to see your good order and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ.

6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding [d]in it with thanksgiving.

8 Beware lest anyone [e]cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead [f]bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all [g]principality and power.

 

[amigo de christo]

BINGO

It is not about believing the Lord Jesus Christ.
It is a religion that seeks it's own righteousness by claiming to know the true name of God.
This is why they always refer to believing with the Jewish people under monotheism.

The jws are dead-locked.

Romans 10:1-4
Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law/works/religion for righteousness to everyone who believes.

For this i know that after my depature shall wolves enter in amongst you not sparing the flock ,
and many false teachers also amongst you shall come in and teach , to have desciples after THEM .
The sheep will indeed come out from amongst false teachers and places .
But not all who came of the RCC , not all who speak against the RCC are TRUE EITHER .
Though they can speak truth against the RCC and cliam they heed man and a pope
For they heed men of the watchtower . It is like watching the blind lead the blind and only into greater error and darkness .
Even jospeh smith of the mormons could preach truths about the falling away of the churches of his time
And yet LOOK at what he did , he led them into only far deadlier dangers .
NOW LOOK at today , cause today these unifyers can do the same , they too can speak against some errors and etc
BUT LEAD ALL RIGHT TO THE LIE and have made totally void the gospel of Christ .
Its as JESUS once said to the jews who prolostiezed ,
YE travel the seas to make a convert and when you do you make him TWO FOLD the child of HELL you were .
THIS JUST KEEPS getting worse .
IT truly is bible time in the house . IT is time this people PUT THE TIME into learning that bible for themselves .
Cause the last hour of great delusion is flooding into all camps now to merge the lost under what they believe
will be love and be of GOD . TO make ready a people for AC . It grows and it abounds daily my friend .
But the sheep will not heed its voice but rather do exploits and all to point TO Christ Jesus and all biblical doctrine . OH ITS A WAR
all right and its hitting its peak hour .

 

[amigo de christo]

BINGO

It is not about believing the Lord Jesus Christ.
It is a religion that seeks it's own righteousness by claiming to know the true name of God.
This is why they always refer to believing with the Jewish people under monotheism.

The jws are dead-locked.

Romans 10:1-4
Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law/works/religion for righteousness to everyone who believes.

there have been and Even NOW the greatest reactionary system is .
Interfaith inclusivity has come to unify all tribes of all peoples and religoins to again be as one
ONLY IT SURE AINT UNDER GOD . The ultimate lie of all is now being BELIEVED and all in the name
of another who has come in His own name . Deconstructions and many are busy remolding and reshaping
an image of GOD , or what they claim be GOD , that all of mankind can unite as one under .
It preaches a common ground mentality and mindset . aka doing good works , loving one another etc
BUT IT HAS DENIED THE BELEIF IN the ONLY NAME that can save . At most it preaches another jesus , another gospel
but by its version of what it calls love , IT CAN and it is UNITING ALL RELIGOINS to merge as one .
Amber alert , amber alert , JESUS HAS BEEN DENIED this false love will save none and the very peace n safety
they believed it could usher upon the earth , SHALL only USHER UPON THEM ALL SUDDEN destruction
BY THE VERY GOD AND HIS CHRIST THEY DID DENY .

 

[amigo de christo]

So when you read this here, they say the Day of the Lord already happened. It is past and occurred in 70 AD
The elements burning was the OC temple and the end of that world

It's not unlike when of Christ it says,
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

And yet they deny and change what it says.
And you can't change their mind, it is like they are locked into their theology.
And then they say we are worried about you...

This already happened in 70 AD?

The Day of the Lord​

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

The day that burneth as an oven shall come in a day and in an hour when many were not aware .
And as they holler peace n safety shall sudden destruction come upon them alll and they shall not escape .
You made a real good point scott . cause i sure dont seem to see the new heavens and new earth HERE .
I see a world waxed and that waxes only fuller and fuller of inquity . And worse i see many within christendom
that any time a man stands with a bible to speak , THEY RUN them off with JUDGE NOT , JUDGE NOT .

 

[amigo de christo]

If the Holy spirit is a force, how then does Jesus call the Holy Spirit HE?
A force would be an IT, impersonal. Not existing as a person; having no personality:

John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

and in within his own place shall he honor a god of FORCES , a strange GOD whom His fathers knew not and he shall cause them
to rule over many . Kinda odd also that evolution seemeth to make a god of forces itself .
PS that he i wrote of , that is written in daniel . PS it aint talking about A HOLY MAN of GOD EITHER .
IT is talking about HE who by PEACE shall destroy many .
Hey scott marvel not that more and more are trying to imply that things will soon and only get better and better in this world
FOR THEY are under a spell of another who is leading them all to the plan it has sold will usherin upon them
the very peace n safety of the world which really IS GONNA ONLY USHER UPON ALL SUDDEN destruction .
FOR IT DENIES and DENIED JESUS THE CHRIST and sought means to attain PEACE n SAFETY
and though many do build in its tower , THAT OL TOWER and all within it shall COME crashing down on the day of the LORD
of WHOM IT DENIED .

 

[Scott Downey]

The day that burneth as an oven shall come in a day and in an hour when many were not aware .
And as they holler peace n safety shall sudden destruction come upon them alll and they shall not escape .
You made a real good point scott . cause i sure dont seem to see the new heavens and new earth HERE .
I see a world waxed and that waxes only fuller and fuller of inquity . And worse i see many within christendom
that any time a man stands with a bible to speak , THEY RUN them off with JUDGE NOT , JUDGE NOT .

Yes, you tell people what they say does not fit the scriptures, and they think you have a problem.
World is not getting better and better, the daily news everyday shows that.
World is a 'scary' place, we need to fully rely on God as the Name of the Lord is a strong tower.

Proverbs 18:10
The name of the Lord is a strong tower;
The righteous run to it and are [e]safe.

 

[amigo de christo]

How do you blaspheme a 'force'?

How is that blaspheming a 'force' constitutes the unforgivable sin???

and he shall honor a god of forces ....................................
And he shall cause them to RULE over MANY
WHOM is this written about . WHO is the man . a hint IT AINT A HOLY MAN OF GOD my friend .
Its he who by peace shall destroy many .
He is written of in daniel . and in the latter times of their kingdoms when the Transgressors have come to THE FULL
a king understaning dark sentences shall stand
who by PEACE shall destroy many .
The spirit of anti christ is and has been at WORK
Even now are there many anti christs who do the bidding of the plan they beleive will usher on earth world peace n safety .
Guess what else is within this plan .
Before i tell it , let me give us some words that were written about said man who destroyes through peace .
And he shall DIVIDE the land for gain .
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD of the plan they work on right now . THE ONE that has and will DIVIDE JERUSALEM , divide the LAND .
ITS ALL IN THE MAKING of those who preach this intefiath lie . EVER GET THE FEELING
we are farther along than most realize . THEY clambor to a voice that has promised them
a lie and has given them a solutoin they all believe will bring PEACE ON EARTH , PEACE IN THE MIDDLE east .
EVER WONDER just who on earth this whole interfaith abraham peace accords TRULY IS LEADING ALL as one RIGHT TOO .
a hint , IT AINT GOD . IT AINT GOD AT ALL . but they think its GOD and HIS LOVE . boy satan sure can decieve cant he .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, you tell people what they say does not fit the scriptures, and they think you have a problem.
World is not getting better and better, the daily news everyday shows that.
World is a 'scary' place, we need to fully rely on God as the Name of the Lord is a strong tower.

Proverbs 18:10
The name of the Lord is a strong tower;
The righteous run to it and are [e]safe.

THE NAME of the LORD truly is a and OUR STRONGTOWER .
And now a word .
TO MOSES it was once told , GO and tell them that I AM has sent thee .
Before abraham was I AM .
I have made MANIFEST YOUR NAME .
YET that NAME SURE SEEMS to be getting trod under foot as more and more now beleive
tis not even necessary to have to had BELIEVED ON HIM . many run to a tower all right , THE WRONG ONE .
but the sheep , WELL JESUS HAS THE SHEEP and HIS VOICE be the ONLY VOICE they be a heeding .

 

[Scott Downey]

THE NAME of the LORD truly is a and OUR STRONGTOWER .
And now a word .
TO MOSES it was once told , GO and tell them that I AM has sent thee .
Before abraham was I AM .
I have made MANIFEST YOUR NAME .
YET that NAME SURE SEEMS to be getting trod under foot as more and more now beleive
tis not even necessary to have to had BELIEVED ON HIM . many run to a tower all right , THE WRONG ONE .
but the sheep , WELL JESUS HAS THE SHEEP and HIS VOICE be the ONLY VOICE they be a heeding .

The darkness does not comprehend the Light.

A good characteristic of His sheep, Jesus tells us this.

The sheep do not hear the voice of a stranger. They won't pay attention or give heed to thieves and robbers.
And not everyone is of His sheep.

And the whole chapter is good to review.

Jesus the True Shepherd​

1 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.

Jesus the Good Shepherd​

7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who ever came [a]before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a [b]hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

19 Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings. 20 And many of them said, “He has a demon and is [c]mad. Why do you listen to Him?”

21 Others said, “These are not the words of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

The Shepherd Knows His Sheep​

22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in [d]doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, [e]as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Renewed Efforts to Stone Jesus​

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and [f]believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” 39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.

 

[amigo de christo]

The darkness does not comprehend the Light.

A good characteristic of His sheep, Jesus tells us this.

The sheep do not hear the voice of a stranger. They won't pay attention or give heed to thieves and robbers.
And not everyone is of His sheep.

And the whole chapter is good to review.

Jesus the True Shepherd​

1 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.

Jesus the Good Shepherd​

7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who ever came [a]before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a [b]hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

19 Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings. 20 And many of them said, “He has a demon and is [c]mad. Why do you listen to Him?”

21 Others said, “These are not the words of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

The Shepherd Knows His Sheep​

22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in [d]doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, [e]as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Renewed Efforts to Stone Jesus​

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and [f]believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” 39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.

Today its becoming
we stone thee not for feeding the poor and doing good works
but because THOU SAYEST YE MUST BELEIVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST .
Because thou sayest all other religoins are IN darkness and under the power of satan
and they must repent to beleive on JESUS the CHRIST . marvel not if the world hates you , KNOW it hated me first .

 

[Scott Downey]

Proof after proof of who God is, the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father as ONE God..
You need to BELIEVE that as Christ said.

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and [f]believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”

39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.

 

[St. SteVen]

I wrote a 7-page piece chock full of not only Scripture but analysis of the topic, in addition to the ABC and 123's on this. To start off slow, please answer these 2 questions.

I'm trying to find your ABC and 123s. (send help)

[