Israel

[quietthinker]

You assume that the reference Jesus made concerning His Father exhaustive - Paul talks of the Kindness and Severety of God - you are presenting one side only.

What would you think the severity of God is?

 

[Carl Emerson]

What would you think the severity of God is?

Deuteronomy 6:15
for the Lord your God in your midst is a jealous God—lest the anger of the Lord your God be kindled against you, and he destroy you from off the face of the earth.

1 Chronicles 13:10
And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah, and he struck him down because he put out his hand to the ark, and he died there before God.

Acts 1
5 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and with his wife's knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.” 5 When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And great fear came upon all who heard of it. 6 The young men rose and wrapped him up and carried him out and buried him.

7 After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much.” And she said, “Yes, for so much.” 9 But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men came in they found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.

Psalm 78:31
the anger of God rose against them, and he killed the strongest of them and laid low the young men of Israel.

Revelation 14:10
he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Exodus 9:3
behold, the hand of the Lord will fall with a very severe plague upon your livestock that are in the field, the horses, the donkeys, the camels, the herds, and the flocks.

Exodus 12:29
At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of the livestock.

Numbers 16:46
And Moses said to Aaron, “Take your censer, and put fire on it from off the altar and lay incense on it and carry it quickly to the congregation and make atonement for them, for wrath has gone out from the Lord; the plague has begun." 47 So Aaron took it as Moses said and ran into the midst of the assembly. And behold, the plague had already begun among the people. And he put on the incense and made atonement for the people.48 And he stood between the dead and the living, and the plague was stopped.

Revelation 16:9
They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.

Revelation 16:21
And great hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, fell from heaven on people; and they cursed God for the plague of the hail, because the plague was so severe.

 

[quietthinker]

Deuteronomy 6:15
for the Lord your God in your midst is a jealous God—lest the anger of the Lord your God be kindled against you, and he destroy you from off the face of the earth.

1 Chronicles 13:10
And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah, and he struck him down because he put out his hand to the ark, and he died there before God.

Acts 1
5 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and with his wife's knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.” 5 When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And great fear came upon all who heard of it. 6 The young men rose and wrapped him up and carried him out and buried him.

7 After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much.” And she said, “Yes, for so much.” 9 But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men came in they found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.

Psalm 78:31
the anger of God rose against them, and he killed the strongest of them and laid low the young men of Israel.

Revelation 14:10
he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Exodus 9:3
behold, the hand of the Lord will fall with a very severe plague upon your livestock that are in the field, the horses, the donkeys, the camels, the herds, and the flocks.

Exodus 12:29
At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of the livestock.

Numbers 16:46
And Moses said to Aaron, “Take your censer, and put fire on it from off the altar and lay incense on it and carry it quickly to the congregation and make atonement for them, for wrath has gone out from the Lord; the plague has begun." 47 So Aaron took it as Moses said and ran into the midst of the assembly. And behold, the plague had already begun among the people. And he put on the incense and made atonement for the people.48 And he stood between the dead and the living, and the plague was stopped.

Revelation 16:9
They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.

Revelation 16:21
And great hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, fell from heaven on people; and they cursed God for the plague of the hail, because the plague was so severe.

Oh I see....you attributed evil to God as did Isaiah but you don't call it evil. You have more of an eastern concept of God ie, yin/ yang where good and bad reside together. Do you think that's what Satan was referencing when he said to A&E, 'you will be as God knowing good and evil?.....yes, it was Satan who was the yin/ yang initiator. He misrepresented God from the outset.
It took Jesus who allowed himself to be killed....so that we could see the nature of God......and still it is missed.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Surely thinking about implications is also necessary?

Why? If god says something will or will not be done, fretting about the implications does little to advance our relationship with god.

If god wanted us to know all the implications, He would have put them in Scripture.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Oh I see....you attributed evil to God as did Isaiah but you don't call it evil. You have more of an eastern concept of God ie, yin/ yang where good and bad reside together. Do you think that's what Satan was referencing when he said to A&E, 'you will be as God knowing good and evil?.....yes, it was Satan who was the yin/ yang initiator. He misrepresented God from the outset.
It took Jesus who allowed himself to be killed....so that we could see the nature of God......and still it is missed.

No... you don't see it seems.

Quote me where I attributed Evil to God. That is your construct and false accusation.

Quote me where I suggested a dualistic relationship between Satan and God... you wont be able to - again false accusation.

What is missed is that Jesus is both a Lion and a Lamb.

 

[quietthinker]

No... you don't see it seems.

Quote me where I attributed Evil to God. That is your construct and false accusation.

Quote me where I suggested a dualistic relationship between Satan and God... you wont be able to - again false accusation.

What is missed is that Jesus is both a Lion and a Lamb.

hmmmm, I'm sorry Carl, but your arguments appear to me as speaking from both sides of your mouth.
...and by the way, I haven't missed the Lion/ Lamb understanding of Jesus.

Questions that require/ need/ are begging to be asked; texts that appear to be promoting a violent God against men, are just not asked. I wonder why that is?

 

[quietthinker]

Why? If god says something will or will not be done, fretting about the implications does little to advance our relationship with god.

If god wanted us to know all the implications, He would have put them in Scripture.

'Fretting' is your word RN. God has given us a mind and intelligence. If we choose not to use it or unable to, we end up with a restricted view. Justify a restricted view and foolishness is courted.

 

[Carl Emerson]

hmmmm, I'm sorry Carl, but your arguments appear to me as speaking from both sides of your mouth.
...and by the way, I haven't missed the Lion/ Lamb understanding of Jesus.

Rationally this may appear so...

If we attribute perfection to God, then all His actions are Just regardless of how it may appear to the human mind.

If we attribute His authorship to Scripture, then even the simple can grasp the salvific message. The rest is for us to grapple the meaning with His help and Truth is often beyond rationality.

We encounter Him in Scripture and in life. Yet His ways are past finding out. It is left for us to hold onto the fundamentals He has revealed and not become His judge.

What He has revealed is enough but not all.

However you have done well to draw the thread away from topic...

We are faced with the very real possibility that the third temple in Jerusalem will be built in our lifetime, and animal sacrifices for sin will again be made.

I maintain this initiative is coming from an anti-Christ spirit and believers should not support it.

Readers be warned.

 

[quietthinker]

Rationally this may appear so...

If we attribute perfection to God, then all His actions are Just regardless of how it may appear to the human mind.

If we attribute His authorship to Scripture, then even the simple can grasp the salvific message. The rest is for us to grapple the meaning with His help and Truth is often beyond rationality.

We encounter Him in Scripture and in life. Yet His ways are past finding out. It is left for us to hold onto the fundamentals He has revealed and not become His judge.

What He has revealed is enough but not all.

However you have done well to draw the thread away from topic...

We are faced with the very real possibility that the third temple in Jerusalem will be built in our lifetime, and animal sacrifices for sin will again be made.

I maintain this initiative is coming from an anti-Christ spirit and believers should not support it.

Readers be warned.

We are (present tense) his judge....which is shocking to some. We judge him worthy of our worship or not. We hear his judgement which says, I love you, I do not hold your faults against you, come and join the party and celebrate......but just as the older son, many refuse. They are in a snit because they feel entitled and can't handle the Fathers generosity towards his wayward son. Instead many attribute fire and brimstone which he has they say, and will rain on the naughty ones.

Your judgement of,
'I maintain this initiative is coming from an anti-Christ spirit and believers should not support it.'... is the voice of the older brother!

 

[Carl Emerson]

We are (present tense) his judge....which is shocking to some. We judge him worthy of our worship or not. We hear his judgement which says, I love you, I do not hold your faults against you, come and join the party and celebrate......but just as the older son, many refuse. They are in a snit because they feel entitled and can't handle the Fathers generosity towards his wayward son. Instead many attribute fire and brimstone which he has they say, and will rain on the naughty ones.

Your judgement of,
'I maintain this initiative is coming from an anti-Christ spirit and believers should not support it.'... is the voice of the older brother!

So you don't think that the emphatic rejection of Christ in Israel by religious Jews and their followers counts for anything ? Jesus did...

Do you suppose the ripping of the temple vail was a confirming sign of the continuation of the old covenant temple priesthood ?

And are you comfortable to ignore the warning of an Anti-Christ rule from a future temple.

Yes... I am an older brother but not in the way you insinuate.

He who has an ear to hear, be warned - do not support the building of the third temple.

We are His temple - He no longer dwells in buildings made with hands.

 

[Ritajanice]

So you don't think that the emphatic rejection of Christ in Israel by religious Jews and their followers counts for anything ? Jesus did...

Do you suppose the ripping of the temple vail was a confirming sign of the continuation of the old covenant temple priesthood ?

And are you comfortable to ignore the warning of an Anti-Christ rule from a future temple.

Yes... I am an older brother but not in the way you insinuate.

He who has an ear to hear, be warned - do not support the building of the third temple.

We are His temple - He no longer dwells in buildings made with hands.

Didn’t the ripping of the veil symbolise the end of the old covenant, where animals were sacrificed.?

We are now under the New Covenant ?

 

[quietthinker]

So you don't think that the emphatic rejection of Christ in Israel by religious Jews and their followers counts for anything ? Jesus did...

Do you suppose the ripping of the temple vail was a confirming sign of the continuation of the old covenant temple priesthood ?

And are you comfortable to ignore the warning of an Anti-Christ rule from a future temple.

Yes... I am an older brother but not in the way you insinuate.

He who has an ear to hear, be warned - do not support the building of the third temple.

We are His temple - He no longer dwells in buildings made with hands.

Why these questions Carl? What have they to do with our exchange?

 

[Ritajanice]

We are His temple - He no longer dwells in buildings made with hands

Exactly..,we house the Holy Spirit, in our spirit..,Amen!

 

[Ritajanice]

Why these questions Carl? What have they to do with our exchange?

Makes us think..I asked him a question about the ripping of the veil...we’re all learning aren’t we?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Didn’t the ripping of the veil symbolise the end of the old covenant, where animals were sacrificed.?

We are now under the New Covenant ?

Exactly what I am saying...

 

[Ritajanice]

Exactly what I am saying...

God has blessed you with knowledge, you are like an encyclopaedia ....

 

[quietthinker]

Exactly what I am saying...

well, what has it to do with the exchange between you and me Carl?

 

[Behold]

Exactly what I am saying...

Ephesians 2:15

""""by abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the hostility caused by the Law with its commandments contained in ordinances [which He satisfied]; so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thereby establishing peace.""""

1.) '""" Jesus he made of no effect THE LAW consisting of commands and expressed in regulations, so that he might create in Himself one new man from the two, resulting in peace."""


2.) "The born again are NOT UNDER THE LAW........but under GRACE"..

3.) "The LAW came by MOSES........but GRACE AND TRUTH came by Jesus The Christ".

 

[Ronald Nolette]

'Fretting' is your word RN. God has given us a mind and intelligence. If we choose not to use it or unable to, we end up with a restricted view. Justify a restricted view and foolishness is courted.

Well pondering all the what ifs that Scripture doesn't reveal is an exercise in futility.

Let me quote Jesus:

25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Nothing wrong with preparing for possible outcomes (if they are a real possibility) but to spend time pondering the imponderable can get one in a fugue state very easily.

Trying to predict outcomes when God promised to care for us if we seek Him is a lack of trust.

 

[Carl Emerson]

well, what has it to do with the exchange between you and me Carl?

We are returning to topic...

The authority of the Old Covenant priesthood was removed when the Veil was ripped from the top.

God was in effect desecrating the second temple indicating an end to temple worship and the beginning of His indwelling believers as His living temple.