Israel

[Ronald Nolette]

But you cannot believe there is anyone left alive who does not know God or does not obey the gospel when He returns on that Day.
As there are some who say the millennial reign includes the unbelievers and the unjust with the saints ruling over them and the nations.

Of course there will be many alive. No where does Scripture say or even imply that all unbelievers will be dead when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist at Bozrah and then march to Jerusalem. there will be many alive and face judgment before Jesus establishes the Millennial kingdom on earth.

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left

See! Jesus returns in glory to earth with teh angels, and then on earth sits on His throne of glory. And gathers all peoples and judges them.

 

[Truth7t7]

He is judging the survivors of the tribulation (that is the context here.) And yes He is comparing the righteous and lost as sheep and goats, it is not a parable. It is a judgment of the living and not the dead.

Yes it's a "Parable" spoken to herdsmen, using (Sheep/Goats) explaining the Great White Throne Judgement, will Jesus judge literal (Sheep/Goats) "NO"

Your claim is "False" both the righteous and wicked are seen at this time of final judgement together, the wicked Goats (Everlasting Punishment) the righteous Sheep (Eternal Life)

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Scott Downey]

That judgement is after the resurrection of the just and unjust.
The only flesh that is left alive at His return are those caught up to be with Him in the clouds.
And then we are changed into glorified bodies like He has.

And all the other remaining flesh left behind as in not caught up, is destroyed in the fire on that Day.
There won't be any left alive and all of them burned up are dragon worshippers who received the mark, no root, no branch of them is left! They are gone. Their bodies burned to ashes.

Malachi 4 also speaking of this has no 1000 yr reign on the old earth.

The Great Day of God​

4 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
********************************************************************

The only mention of a 1000 yr millennium is right here before the judgement of them that are dead in Revelation 20

Then they are resurrected to face judgement day.
Notice it says the dead

Revelation 20
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Revelation 20:13
The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, He comes to establish teh kingdom long promised to Israel. Acts 1 confirms this.

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Jesus did not say- Israel would not have the kingdom restored, He only said it was not for the Apostles to know the when as that was in the Fathers hands.

I Disagree, you were presented 10 verses that shows Jesus returns in "Fire" you give "Complete Disregard" to this "Fact" seen below "Sad"!

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Could we return to the topic of the temple please.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes it's a "Parable" spoken to herdsmen, using (Sheep/Goats) explaining the Great White Throne Judgement, will Jesus judge literal (Sheep/Goats) "NO"

Your claim is "False" both the righteous and wicked are seen at this time of final judgement together, the wicked Goats (Everlasting Punishment) the righteous Sheep (Eternal Life)

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Sorry but it was spoken to his disciples and none were shepherds.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Well as you reject the 1000 year reign of Jesus on earth after His return, you cannot see the difference between His return and god destroying ther invaders prior to the great white throne judgment.

And remember the destruction of Luke 17 was specific and limited, just like what will happen when Jesus returns, it is specific and limited.

 

[Scott Downey]

Well as you reject the 1000 year reign of Jesus on earth after His return, you cannot see the difference between His return and god destroying ther invaders prior to the great white throne judgment.

And remember the destruction of Luke 17 was specific and limited, just like what will happen when Jesus returns, it is specific and limited.

Peter says His return affects all of the current creation, no limited even to just earth.
You have to put all the pieces together to understand.
Jesus tells us in many places His return is as a thief in the night, a sudden destruction.

We do not know the timing of that Day with accuracy, and we do not know how long after the sudden destruction till God creates new heaven and earth.

Or what even that time between creations is like, it is an uncreating of things that are, except for spiritual things which remain, people, angels, God, described as burning and dissolving. It does appear the great white throne judgement occurs between the sudden destruction of the universe and the new creation. I know some people believe heaven and earth as eternal and will never be destroyed, and even that it already happened, but that is a false teaching.

2 Peter 3

The Day of the Lord​

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

 

[Jack]

Sit back and watch God FIGHT for Israel, again and again, if you can!

 

[Scott Downey]

Sit back and watch God FIGHT for Israel, again and again, if you can!

God has a plan for the end of days which involves the land of Israel, so He is working according to what He has said in the prophets, such as Zachariah.
Very significant final battle of Armageddon, is in the land of Israel as well as the future salvation for the people living there.

Everything is happening in the world according to the plan of God.

 

[Scott Downey]

The Last Day is coming and it will be a very busy DAY!
Massive involvement of the armies of Heaven, God, and Christ, the beast, the dragon and all the people over the entire face of the earth.

 

[Jack]

God has a plan for the end of days which involves the land of Israel, so He is working according to what He has said in the prophets, such as Zachariah.
Very significant final battle of Armageddon, is in the land of Israel as well as the future salvation for the people living there.

Everything is happening in the world according to the plan of God.

And WOE be to the Israel identity THIEVES!

 

[quietthinker]

God has a plan for the end of days which involves the land of Israel, so He is working according to what He has said in the prophets, such as Zachariah.
Very significant final battle of Armageddon, is in the land of Israel as well as the future salvation for the people living there.

Everything is happening in the world according to the plan of God.

Do you think it a possibility to interpret other than you have Scott?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Peter says His return affects all of the current creation, no limited even to just earth.
You have to put all the pieces together to understand.
Jesus tells us in many places His return is as a thief in the night, a sudden destruction.

Jesus return is to rescue Israel, defeats the Antichrist, and establish the promised millennial kingdom. It isnot to destroy the creation. That comes after the 1000 years, when Satan is loosed one more time and deceives the nations one more time! then God destroys the present creation and establish "the eternal order" by recreating th euniverse.


There are enormous verses in the OT that describe life on earth after Jesus returns and sets up the 1000 year kingdom.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus return is to rescue Israel, defeats the Antichrist, and establish the promised millennial kingdom. It isnot to destroy the creation. That comes after the 1000 years, when Satan is loosed one more time and deceives the nations one more time! then God destroys the present creation and establish "the eternal order" by recreating th euniverse.


There are enormous verses in the OT that describe life on earth after Jesus returns and sets up the 1000 year kingdom.

And maybe some of those are about the new earth to come where there is no more evil.

Isaiah 66
18 “For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory. 19 I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and [c]Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. 20 Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the Lord out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,” says the Lord, “as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord. 21 And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites,” says the Lord.

Then a break of time....The coming new earth and new heavens are going to be permanent cause all evil things will have been destroyed in His wrath, and they won't be coming back. They went to the lake of fire.

22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
24 “And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus return is to rescue Israel, defeats the Antichrist, and establish the promised millennial kingdom. It isnot to destroy the creation. That comes after the 1000 years, when Satan is loosed one more time and deceives the nations one more time! then God destroys the present creation and establish "the eternal order" by recreating th euniverse.


There are enormous verses in the OT that describe life on earth after Jesus returns and sets up the 1000 year kingdom.

Like returning to animal sacrifices in the temple?
Can't anyone see how wrong this is.

Will there be animal sacrifices during the millennial kingdom? | GotQuestions.org

Will there be animal sacrifices during the millennial kingdom? If Christ’s sacrifice was perfect and sufficient, why would animals need to be sacrificed during the millennium?

www.gotquestions.org

I won't post the whole awful thing as you can read it too, if anyone wants.

******************************************************
There are several passages in the Old Testament that clearly indicate animal sacrifice will be re-instituted during the millennial kingdom. Some passages mention it in passing as the topic of the millennial kingdom is discussed, passages like Isaiah 56:6-8; Zechariah 14:16; and Jeremiah 33:15-18.

The passage that is the most extensive, giving the greatest detail, is Ezekiel 43:18-46:24. It should be noted that this is part of a greater passage dealing with the millennial kingdom, a passage that begins with Ezekiel 40. In Ezekiel 40, the Lord begins to give details of the temple that will exist during the millennial kingdom, a temple that dwarfs all other temples previously built, even Herod’s temple that was quite large, which existed during the earthly ministry of Christ.

After giving details concerning the size and appearance of the temple and the altar, the Lord then begins to give detailed instruction as to the animal sacrifices that will be offered (Ezekiel 43:18-27). In chapter 44, the Lord gives instructions as to who will be offering sacrifices to the Lord. The Lord states that all of the Levites will not be offering blood and fat to the Lord due to previous sin; it will be those from the lineage of Zadok (verse 15). Chapters 45 and 46 continue to mention that animal sacrifices will be made.

The primary objection made to the idea of animal sacrifices returning during the millennial kingdom is that Christ has come and offered a perfect sacrifice for sin, and there is therefore no need to sacrifice animals for sin. However, it must be remembered that animal sacrifice never removed the sin that spiritually separated a person from the Lord.

Hebrews 10:1-4 says, “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never by the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" (NASB).

It is incorrect to think that animal sacrifices took away sins in the Old Testament, and it is incorrect to think they will do so in the millennial kingdom. Animal sacrifices served as object lessons for the sinner, that sin was and is a horrible offense against God, and that the result of sin is death. Romans 3:20 says, “Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Isaiah 66, God is not going to be accepting animal sacrifices again..
Read what He says about it

True Worship and False​

1 Thus says the Lord:

“Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
Where is the house that you will build Me?
And where is the place of My rest?

2 For all those things My hand has made,
And all those things exist,”
Says the Lord.
“But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word.

3 “He who kills a bull is as if he slays a man;
He who sacrifices a lamb, as if he breaks a dog’s neck;
He who offers a grain offering, as if he offers swine’s blood;
He who burns incense, as if he blesses an idol.
Just as they have chosen their own ways,
And their soul delights in their abominations,

4 So will I choose their delusions,
And bring their fears on them;
Because, when I called, no one answered,
When I spoke they did not hear;
But they did evil before My eyes,
And chose that in which I do not delight.”

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus return is to rescue Israel, defeats the Antichrist, and establish the promised millennial kingdom. It isnot to destroy the creation. That comes after the 1000 years, when Satan is loosed one more time and deceives the nations one more time! then God destroys the present creation and establish "the eternal order" by recreating th euniverse.


There are enormous verses in the OT that describe life on earth after Jesus returns and sets up the 1000 year kingdom.

If you were playing a game of lets say, Chess, does beating your opponent mean you are violent?
Doesn't his/ her defeat arise out of poor/ bad strategy. Isn't their defeat the result of their own misguided judgement?

Why do we conclude that a God of Love would defeat the enemy or those opposed to him with violence/ force?

 

[Carl Emerson]

If you were playing a game of lets say, Chess, does beating your opponent mean you are violent?
Doesn't his/ her defeat arise out of poor/ bad strategy. Isn't their defeat the result of their own misguided judgement?

Why do we conclude that a God of Love would defeat the enemy or those opposed to him with violence/ force?

Vengeance is mine...

Sodom was decimated.

We must always give Him the prerogative to act this way if in His judgement it is warranted.

 

[quietthinker]

Vengeance is mine...

Sodom was decimated.

We must always give Him the prerogative to act this way if in His judgement it is warranted.

Surely how God acts is exemplified in the reality of Jesus.....who, according to the book of Hebrews is the exact replication of God's character.

Hebrews 1:1-3
'In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being,

In my words, the Prophets didn't always get it right when representing the character of God. They interpreted God through their own filter which was often violence.
As the text above says, Jesus is the radiance of God's glory......and who are we told to listen to when the voice on the Mount of Transfiguration speaks? Was it Moses? Was it Elijah? (Prophets) ....no, it was Jesus we are told to listen to.

So, why do we revert to quoting OT prophets accounts when it comes to understanding the character of God? Is it because they often underpin our own desire for violence and our own faulty interpretation of Justice?

The standard recourse in justifying violence with Jesus is the account in the temple area of driving out the livestock, overturning the tables of the moneychangers and making a whip. It assumes Jesus had a whip the size of a cowboy's and used it on the people there. That is an erroneous construct used by those who love violence. They have not heard Jesus, they have not heard who the Voice on the mountain told us to listen to. They have listened to their own carnal nature and used scripture to justify it......just like those who condemned Jesus and who got totally pissed off with Stephan when he brought this to their attention. Acts 6:8 through to the end of Acts 7