THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[face2face]

Hebrews 1
God, who [a]at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [b]worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had [c]by Himself [d]purged [e]our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

One in purpose most certainly but God can never become so much better than angels.

You know this to be true but you have dogma at work in your mind.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Your claim that the term hypostasis (ὑπόστασις) was introduced solely in response to Christological debates between 300–400 AD can be critiqued from both a historical and textual perspective. The term has roots in Greek philosophy and language long before these debates and appears in Scripture itself, reflecting theological usage that predates the Christological controversies.


Hypostasis in Pre-Christian Greek Usage

The term hypostasis was not invented in the 4th century; it was already in use within Greek philosophy. In classical Greek, it conveyed meanings such as "substance," "foundation," or "existence." Philosophers like Aristotle and the Stoics used it to discuss the reality or essence underlying appearances.
Early Christian writers adopted Greek philosophical language to articulate theological truths, including the nature of God and Christ, making hypostasis a natural choice for expressing these concepts.
Scriptural Presence of Hypostasis

As demonstrated, ὑπόστασις appears in the New Testament multiple times, including in Hebrews 1:3, which describes Christ as the "express image of [God's] hypostasis." This textual evidence predates the Christological debates of the 4th century and demonstrates that the term was already being used to articulate theological ideas about God's nature.

Its use in Hebrews 11:1 as the "substance" or "assurance" of faith also suggests that it was an established theological and philosophical term within the early Christian lexicon.

Theological Clarification, Not Introduction

The 4th-century debates, such as those involving the Arian controversy, did not introduce hypostasis but clarified and refined its usage.

The distinction between hypostasis (person) and ousia (essence) became necessary to combat heresies like Arianism, which denied the full divinity of Christ, and Sabellianism, which conflated the persons of the Trinity.

The Cappadocian Fathers (e.g., Basil of Caesarea, Gregory of Nyssa) articulated these distinctions to safeguard the biblical truths about the Trinity and Christ's nature. Their work did not invent the term but built on its scriptural and philosophical roots.

Pre-Nicene Usage in Theology

Even before the 4th century, Christian writers were grappling with the nature of Christ and the Godhead. For instance:

Origen (185–253 AD) used hypostasis to describe the distinction between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, well before the Council of Nicaea (325 AD).

The Apology of Aristides (early 2nd century) and the writings of Irenaeus (c. 130–202 AD) contain ideas that would later be associated with hypostasis, though not always using the exact term.

Septuagint Usage of Hypostasis

The term hypostasis is also found in the Greek Septuagint, used centuries before Christ and the later theological debates. For example:

Wisdom of Solomon 16:21: Describes the "substance" of God's provision.

Psalm 38:5 (39:5 LXX): Uses hypostasis to denote existence or essence.
This usage demonstrates that the term had a theological dimension in Jewish thought, which likely influenced its adoption in Christian contexts.

Christological Debates as a Refinement

The debates of the 4th century were not about introducing new terminology but about resolving theological disputes using established concepts. The councils of Nicaea (325 AD) and Constantinople (381 AD) sought to articulate the biblical witness to Christ’s divine and human natures and the Trinity in ways that were faithful to Scripture.

The term hypostasis was neither invented nor introduced exclusively during the 4th-century debates. Its use is rooted in earlier philosophical, scriptural, and theological traditions. While the Christological controversies clarified its application, particularly in distinguishing person from essence within Trinitarian theology, the concept and term predate these events by centuries.

Blessed Trinity, The

Trinity, THE BLESSED.—This article is divided as follows: I. Dogma of the Trinity; II. Proof of the Doctrine from Scripture; III. Proof of the Doctrine from Tra...

www.catholic.com

Contents
I. THE DOGMA OF THE TRINITY.
II. PROOF OF DOCTRINE FROM SCRIPTURE.
III. PROOF OF THE DOCTRINE FROM TRADITION.
IV. THE TRINITY AS A MYSTERY.
V. THE DOCTRINE AS INTERPRETED IN GREEK THEOLOGY.
VI. THE DOCTRINE AS INTERPRETED IN LATIN THEOLOGY.

J.

Your response lacks Scripture, as I previously pointed out. The doctrine of Hypostasis is not found anywhere in the Bible.

 

[Johann]

Your response lacks Scripture, as I previously pointed out. The doctrine of Hypostasis is not found anywhere in the Bible.

Chock full of Scripture and I know you don't read links.

HYPOSTATIC UNION
Dr. Grant C. Richison



Hypostatic Union

(Union of the Deity and Humanity of Christ)

The hypostatic union (union of Christ’s deity and humanity) is when the Son set aside the voluntary USE of His incommunicable attributes. He never stopped existing as God, but He did not use His incommunicable attributes to function within true humanity. Eternality can never cease to exist. A key passage in this regard is Philippians 2:6 See my devotionals on this passage: Philippians 2:6 | Bible Exposition Commentary

Stasis relates to person or substance, the essential essence of a person. The Son has one substance or person whether in His deity or humanity. He is of one substance with the Father. The words anhypostasis and enhypostasis relate to His human nature. Anhypostasis has an alpha privative negating the hypostasis; that is, the Son did not obtain a pre-existing human being when He took on human nature. He did not enter an already existing embryo. In that case, He would possess another person than His own.

Nevertheless, Jesus’ human nature was true humanity; He was a real person. The word enhypostasis (en=in and substance). He truly existed in a human substance. The eternal Son in His personhood stepped foot in true finite humanity (which could not stand alone as His divine nature could). He added true human nature to His divine nature, not another human person. He has two natures but one person, the same person who existed from all eternity as the Son. He is one united person, not two. The Trinity has one indivisible divine nature with three persons.

We understand the person of Christ best in His pre-incarnate state. His incarnation, however, did not diminish His deity in any way. In His humanity, Jesus’ personhood developed like any other human being (Lu 2:52; Mt 26:38), which cannot be attributed to His divine nature. This is related to His humanity rather than divine consciousness. He also experienced the limitations of ordinary human beings. He had a human spirit (Jn 13:21). Thus, He had a complete human body, soul and spirit (contrary to Bultmann).

Regarding the union of the divine and human natures Christ sometimes operated in the sphere of His humanity and other times within the sphere of His deity, in every case He was one person, not two. The Bible never considered Him a dual personality. However, both of His natures maintain their complete identity. The two natures maintain their unity without transfer of attributes. There is no third substance. Christ is theanthropic in one person.

We sort the function of His two natures by distinguishing what is different in each:

Some attributes are attributed to His whole person such as Redeemer.
Some attributes are true only of His deity, but the whole person is the subject (Jn 8:58). The whole person is the subject, but the attribute of deity applies only to His divine nature. Therefore, it is possible to say of the incarnate Christ that His person is eternal although His humanity was added in time.
Some attributes are true only of His humanity, but the whole person is the subject (Jn 19:28). “I thirst” can be attributed only to His humanity but the whole person is involved.
The person may be described according to the divine nature but the predicate of the human nature (Rev 1:12-18). Christ in glory is described “as dead” (Rev 1:18).
The person may be described according to His human nature but the predicate of His divine nature (Jn 6:62). “Son of Man” describes His human nature, but the ascension up to where He was before could only refer to His divine nature.
The person may be described according to the divine nature, but the predicate of both natures (Jn 5:25-27). Christ here is described as the Son of God, but the predicate of speaking is attributed to both natures. Human nature is specifically in view in future judgment.
The person may be described according to the human nature, but the predicate of both natures (Jn 5:27; Mt 27:46). In the latter passage Christ is speaking from His human nature but “Me” refers to both natures (the whole person).
INCARNATION OF TRUE HUMANITY

The true humanity of Christ is a crucial doctrine of Scripture. The death of Christ revolves around our Lord’s humanity. His deity could not die for deity is eternal and can never cease to exist. Other doctrines such as His Messiahship, inheriting the throne of David and offices of king and priest rest on Christ’s true humanity.

PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS

Clear evidence of His true humanity is that He possessed a human body of flesh and blood. His body was like other men except for a virgin birth and not inheriting a sin capacity. His life as a human being manifested normal human development and growth (Lu 2:52). His advance in “wisdom and knowledge” pertains to His Human rather than divine consciousness. He also suffered pain, thirst, hunger, fatigue, rest, death and resurrection. People could touch Him before and after the incarnation. Jesus carried human titles such as “the Son of Man,” “the man Christ Jesus,” “Jesus,” “Son of David” and “man of sorrows.”

HUMAN RATIONAL SOUL AND SPIRIT

Jesus said that His “soul” was “sorrowful even unto death” (Mt 26:38). Eternity cannot die but a human soul can. He was also “troubled in spirit” (Jn 13:21). Thus, Jesus not only possessed material aspects of humanity but also immaterial. He was more than a human body; He had a complete body, soul and spirit.

UNION OF DIVINE AND HUMAN NATURES

Although Christ operated sometimes in His deity and other times in His humanity (see 7 points above), in all cases what He was and did came from one person. He was not a dual personality. Normal pronouns are used of Him. The hypostatic union of His divine and human natures can be seen in John 1:1-14; Philippians 2:6-11; Romans 1:2-5; 9:5; 1 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 2:14; 1 John 1:1-3. The Son of God took upon a complete human nature. This human nature will exist forever (Mt 26:64). His humanity is foundational to His work as a mediator (1 Ti 2:5). Human personality once in existence is never terminated in the Bible.

RELATION OF CHRIST’S TWO NATURES

“Nature” indicates either divine or human elements within the person of Christ. The Greek word for “nature” (physis)is found in several Scriptures (Ro 2:14; Ga 2:15; 4:8; Eph 2:3; 2 Pe 1:4). There has been a debate in church history about the definition of “nature” making it difficult to come to apodictic conclusions based simply on the word itself. “Substance” may be a better word (ousia in Greek). We can generally conclude that “nature” pertains to the essence or inner properties that manifest themselves. Christ’s nature then is the sum of all His attributes and their relationship to each other. Attributes must be compatible to the nature they represent. Or, they cannot be transferred to another nature or substance. Nature regarding Christ’s humanity is all that belongs to His humanity. Nature, as applied to His deity, is all that belongs to His deity. Both divine and human natures have their respective attributes. Both Christ’s divine and human attributes are united without loss of any essential attributes. Both natures maintain their separate identity, that is, there is no mixture or loss of their separate identity. There was no loss or transfer of any property of one substance to another. The union is one of person and of one person. Thus, the two substances maintain their separate identities though joined in personal union. Christ is a theanthropic single person; His natures are not theanthropic since infinity cannot be transferred to the finite. God cannot be transferred to man. To negate Christ’s deity of a single attribute would rob Him of that deity. To disavow Him of genuine human attributes would negate His humanity.

The union of the divinity and humanity of Christ is not deity possessing humanity; this denies His true humanity. Neither is it humanity simply indwelt by deity; Christ did not differ from other men in degree of divine influence. The union of His two natures was personal and constitutional. The Son of God did not unite Himself with a human person but human nature. While the two natures are never attributed to each other they are attributed to His person. Some attributes are true of His whole person; some only of His deity; some only of His humanity. In a more complex way, the person may be described of His divine nature, but the predicate is of His human nature (Re 1: 12-18), and the person may be described of His human nature, but the predicate is of His divine nature (Jn 6:62). Yet again, the person may be described by the divine nature, but the predicate is of both natures (Jn 5:25-27). Further, the person may be described according to human nature, but the predicate is of both natures (Mt 27:46; Jn 5:27).

THE SELF CONSCIOUSNESS OF CHRIST REGARDING HIS TWO NATURES

Christ was always aware of His divine self-consciousness. His human consciousness developed a self-consciousness. Christ during His humanity on earth spoke from both consciousnesses.

Regarding the issue of Christ’s “will,” He can only have one will. “Will” in this case must be distinguished from desire. It was not the Lord’s desire to die on the cross but His will demanded that He do it anyway.


J.

 

[Ritajanice]

' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). Probably no passage comes to the lips of the person who denies the deity of Christ faster than John 14:28.(



The Father is greater than Jesus!

The Lord also admits that he does not know the time or the hour, only the Father does (Matt 24:36).



Jesus says, “the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). The Lord also admits that he does not know the time or the hour, only the Father does (Matt 24:36).

Hebrews 1:6-9

King James Version

​

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don’t understand what you are saying in terms of Scripture verses but the trinity is not in the Bible.

I see, I can see why you got Quiet. You’re the one who made the claim. I just reacted to it. And I guess I hit a nerve.

There is nothing really hard to understand about the verses, they are clear. it’s not as if they are confusing. Because they can not be twisted like so many like to do. As for the trinity or whatever people call it.

I would say it is hard to define, in its basic form, it says the Father is God. The Son is God and the Spirit is God In the same token, it says the father is not the son is not the spirit and the son is not the spirit and vise versa.

lets look again at the passage (if you will)

Is 48:
Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.

1. The first question, who in scripture is called the first and the last. The alpha and omega? Is it not God?

13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them,They stand up together.

2. Who created the earth, who stretched out the heavens, who is it who holds them together? Is it not God?

14 “All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The Lord loves him; He shall do His pleasure on Babylon, And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans. 15 I, even I, have spoken; Yes, I have called him,
I have brought him, and his way will prosper.

3. Who calls? Whose arm shall be against the Chaldeans, or Babylon? Is it not God?

16 “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there.

4.who was there in the begining, who spoke in the beginning? Was it not God?

And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”

5. Finally. If God did all those things, who is the father who sent him, and who is the sapirit.

did God send himself?

You can not get away from this

 

[Scott Downey]

One in purpose most certainly but God can never become so much better than angels.

You know this to be true but you have dogma at work in your mind.

F2F

The writer of Hebrews is showing How Christ is not an angel
The word of God became flesh

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.​

15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me [f]is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”

16 [g]And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten [h]Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

*********************
No man has seen God and lived, but Christ said He has seen God, and He is the Lord of life, not just a man.

John 6
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who [a]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes [b]in Me has everlasting life.

Exodus 33:20
But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”

 

[IronMaiden]

One in purpose most certainly but God can never become so much better than angels.

You know this to be true but you have dogma at work in your mind.

F2F

Hello, F2F. So are you saying that God is equal to the angels?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Wrong.
Jhn 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Amen,

Before abraham was, I always was, or I always existed. Or I AM (as written)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What was the eternal name given to Moses?

Clue - "This is My Name FOREVER......."

Amen. So sacred was this name that many do not allow it to be even said.

Jesus was called a blasphemer for using it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If God foreknew you in that same glory, did you also pre-exist? (Romans 8:29)

It does not say God foreknew him. Why are you adding words?

If you were in His mind (Logos), which He had already prepared for glory (note the past tense) (Romans 9:23, cf. 2 Timothy 1:9).

Once again, because you don't grasp His Logos in terms of reason and purpose, you are unable to comprehend how Christ could pray such a thing.

I believe you understand, but in order to uphold your Trinitarian doctrine, you must impose the idea for believing in pre-existence.

If you truly saw the beauty in the Master's words, you would be moved by them! How much faith does this take for Christ to utter?

F2F

lol. Wow talk about doing everything you can to ignore the meaning lain words.

Theis is just fascinating watching people run from things and try to make it appear words do not say what they say.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Correct - His Word became Flesh

No

the word.

He was the word..

and he was God.

again, how can you do this?

 

[Ritajanice]

Revelation 7:11-12New King James Version (NKJV) All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying: “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, Thanksgiving and honor and power and might, Be to our God forever and ever.

 

[St. SteVen]

Philippians 2:5-7 NIV
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

[

 

[Ritajanice]

Philippians 2:5-7 NIV
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

[

His nature...Jesus was not God...

He served his Father God...just like a Born Again does...we are under God’s authority and his will, spirit children.

 

[St. SteVen]

No, he is not God, you think God can come down here as he is?

You think God can birth me in his almighty Spirit?

The Holy Spirit came from God....and nowhere in scripture does it say that the Holy Spirit is God.

No human on this earth could ever see God and live.

When your spirit goes into the afterlife will it not be you?

[

 

[Ritajanice]

When your spirit goes into the afterlife will it not be you?

[

Not true.

My spirit is in Christ and always will be, I will have the same glorified body that Jesus has.

Romans 8:9-11KJV. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness

1 Corinthians 15:35-58​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

A Glorious Body​

35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind [a]of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.
40 There are also [b]celestial bodies and [c]terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made[d] of dust; the second Man is [e]the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the [f]man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we[g] shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

Our Final Victory​

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a [h]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O[i] Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
When your spirit goes into the afterlife will it not be you?

Not true.

It was a question, not a statement.

My spirit is in Christ and always will be, I will have the same glorified body that Jesus has.

So do you believe that your soul will cease to exist in the afterlife?

Scripture indicates that we each have our own unique spirit, soul and body.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 NIV
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.
May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[

 

[Ritajanice]

So do you believe that your soul will cease to exist in the afterlife?

I can only go by the word of God ..that’s as far as I can go, I must wait on him for divine knowledge of his word.

2 Peter 1:3-4

King James Version

​

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[RLT63]

St. SteVen said:
When your spirit goes into the afterlife will it not be you?

It was a question, not a statement.


So do you believe that your soul will cease to exist in the afterlife?

Scripture indicates that we each have our own unique spirit, soul and body.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 NIV
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.
May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[

Remember this verse when talking to JWs. They say we have no soul.

 

[St. SteVen]

I can only go by the word of God ..that’s as far as I can go, I must wait on him for divine knowledge of his word.

What do you make of this?

John 14:2-3 NIV
My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so,
would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and
take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

[