Why you don't have to speak in tongues - Or do you?

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

Can a person be a Christ-follower without falling in lock-step with the institutional church?

What are the limits of individuality for persons in the church?

www.christianityboard.com

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[GodsGrace]

New topic:

Can a person be a Christ-follower without falling in lock-step with the institutional church?

What are the limits of individuality for persons in the church?

www.christianityboard.com

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Guess you DID study marketing.

 

[talons]

If it was shown you your experience is confirmation bias coupled with heightened emotional and brain chemicals giving the illusion of speaking to God and God speaking through you. It's pure gibberish - it starts off as mimicing the gibberish then you become convinced it is real.

When I was given the gift of tongues at first I would not let the Holy Spirit take the utterance as I stood there at the front of the church after just having given my life to Christ , it shocked the heck out of me ! I knew words were trying to come out of my mouth but they were not words from my thoughts . I later understood what I had been given . A rock&roll guy gets born again and the gift of tongues , that could be a shock to the system , lol !

"in a state of religious fervour"?
I have often prayed in tongues while driving. It doesn't impair my concentration because it doesn't involve my brain - it's rather like listening to the radio, except that the sound comes out of my own mouth.
I've no doubt that some people do speak in tongues while in an ecstatic state, but the ecstasy isn't essential.

Thank you for this @Deborah_ ! @face2face , What she said is exactly how it is with me when I pray in tongues , which is another confirmation for me of what the Gift of speaking in tongues is . When we pray in tongues we do not think the prayer words before they come out , we only know what is going to be said is when we hear it .
If you do not speak in tongues it will be almost impossible for you to wrap your mind around what we are telling you @face2face .
It is a supernatural connection between the Holy Spirit and our speech faculties taking place .

When all this is revealed for what it is, so many will need to replace their foundations...its going to be a day of all days when he comes.
F2F

It will be too late then . For those that can see the revealing is already here .

 

[Lambano]

Did you take the class: Discover Your Gift? - LOL

I did. Apparently I don't have any. Thwack!

 

[face2face]

When I was given the gift of tongues at first I would not let the Holy Spirit take the utterance as I stood there at the front of the church after just having given my life to Christ , it shocked the heck out of me !

The mind is an incredibly powerful tool that can be manipulated in many ways. This is why there are strong warnings against engaging in practices like necromancy and other dark arts are so prolific in the OT & NT records. This is no different to some of the cult practices that include brainwashing and identity foreclosure.

I hope you get the opportunity to witness the truth!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Obviously we have different understandings of the passage here. The way I read it, the apostles began by speaking/singing praises to God in various tongues.

You mean languages right?

 

[face2face]

Is it true that women appear to be more prone to speaking in tongues than men? I’ve heard this claim, but I cannot verify if it's true or simply an unfounded statement.

If it is true, it would have obvious implications considering Paul's stance on women speaking in church. I would assume that those women who do speak in tongues might also hold an egalitarian position.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Assuming you are a woman and you believe in the practice of speaking unintelligible utterances, how do you reconcile this with:

But Paul says, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (1 Cor. 14:34,35)

 

[face2face]

Pentecostal meetings often have multiple people speaking in tongues simultaneously, but Paul instructs that all things should be done "decently and in order" (1 Cor. 14:40). He also states, "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course..." (1 Cor. 14:27). How do you reconcile this practice with Paul's clear instructions for order and structure in the use of tongues?

F2F

 

[face2face]

Pentecostals seldom have any "interpreter" of the unintelligible speech, yet Paul says, "let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church . . . " (1 Cor. 14:27,28)

From what I'm hearing in this thread, it seems there is no clear guidance in how these practices are carried out. Of course, you all know that I believe these gifts have ceased, and for good reason. However, for those who believe they haven’t ceased, practicing in any way they see fit appears to place them outside of Paul’s guidance on their proper use.

I believe what we will find is that those who practice such things are a law unto themselves and lack the Scriptural integrity that was clearly in Paul’s mind when he provided these guidelines.

I'm happy to be proven wrong.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Many Pentecostals (here) consider themselves compelled by the Holy Spirit to "speak in tongues," yet Paul says, "the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" (1 Cor. 14:32). This implies that the use of spiritual gifts, including speaking in tongues, should be controlled and not dictated by an uncontrolled impulse. How do those who practice this reconcile their experiences with Paul's teaching on order and self-control in the exercise of spiritual gifts?

 

[face2face]

It is important to note that "glossolalia" (speaking in tongues) also occurs among practitioners of voodoo in Haiti, suggesting that it is not a phenomenon unique to Christianity. This raises the possibility that explanations other than God's Holy Spirit could account for glossolalia. Additionally, glossolalia is now practiced by denominations such as Anglicans and Roman Catholics. Given that Pentecostals view speaking in tongues as an initial sign of Holy Spirit baptism, do they believe these other religious bodies, who practice glossolalia, also hold the truth of the Gospel? This question becomes even more significant when considering the foundational role that speaking in tongues plays in Pentecostal doctrine.

Having witnessed the gibberish utterings in the past, I can understand how this frenzy seems more aligned with occult practices than with divinely approved communication.

I think there is plenty in these recent posts for me to see the authenticity of faith over the deception of a weak mind.

The broader question for the members here is whether false doctrine can produce such utterings, or does one need to be in the true faith to genuinely take part? If various denominations are practicing this, are they all right, or are they all wrong?

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

I did. Apparently I don't have any. Thwack!

It's good if the ones you get come with a gift receipt.
You can return the ones you don't want for cash. (cha-ching)

[

 

[talons]

The mind is an incredibly powerful tool that can be manipulated in many ways.

There was a recent psyop in the last few years in your country and mine , did you notice ?

This is why there are strong warnings against engaging in practices like necromancy and other dark arts are so prolific in the OT & NT records. This is no different to some of the cult practices that include brainwashing and identity foreclosure.

Brother , I did not know you were having trouble , you should pray and seek God that you may leave the cult .

I hope you get the opportunity to witness the truth!

I most assuredly will .

 

[face2face]

There was a recent psyop in the last few years in your country and mine , did you notice ?

Brother , I did not know you were having trouble , you should pray and seek God that you may leave the cult .

I most assuredly will .

There are spiritual insights in the recent posts that few believers with spiritual gifts are willing or able to address. The Word of God is filled with a wealth of wisdom that offers true substance to faith, rather than relying on empty or meaningless utterances.
Maybe you need time to discover that.
F2F

 

[Deborah_]

You mean languages right?

I do mean languages - I'm using 'tongues' as a technical term to specify the spiritual gift.

Is it true that women appear to be more prone to speaking in tongues than men? I’ve heard this claim, but I cannot verify if it's true or simply an unfounded statement.

Never heard of this before. Women are of course more likely to be Christians in the first place, so in terms of pure numbers one would expect there to be more women with this gift than men. The real question is whether a higher proportion of Christian women can speak in tongues - and you would need to do a proper survey to find out.

Assuming you are a woman and you believe in the practice of speaking unintelligible utterances, how do you reconcile this with:

But Paul says, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (1 Cor. 14:34,35)

A lot depends on how you understand this passage, doesn't it! Paul allows women to pray and prophesy in church (I Corinthians 11), so what he's forbidding in chapter 14 isn't participation in the service but idle chatter.

Pentecostal meetings often have multiple people speaking in tongues simultaneously, but Paul instructs that all things should be done "decently and in order" (1 Cor. 14:40). He also states, "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course..." (1 Cor. 14:27). How do you reconcile this practice with Paul's clear instructions for order and structure in the use of tongues?

F2F

If multiple people are speaking in tongues simultaneously in the expectation of being heard by the entire congregation, that's definitely out of order.

Many Pentecostals (here) consider themselves compelled by the Holy Spirit to "speak in tongues," yet Paul says, "the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" (1 Cor. 14:32). This implies that the use of spiritual gifts, including speaking in tongues, should be controlled and not dictated by an uncontrolled impulse. How do those who practice this reconcile their experiences with Paul's teaching on order and self-control in the exercise of spiritual gifts?

I feel a gentle urge to speak or pray in tongues (although so far, never during a church service). But the urge isn't uncontrollable.

It is important to note that "glossolalia" (speaking in tongues) also occurs among practitioners of voodoo in Haiti, suggesting that it is not a phenomenon unique to Christianity. This raises the possibility that explanations other than God's Holy Spirit could account for glossolalia. Additionally, glossolalia is now practiced by denominations such as Anglicans and Roman Catholics. Given that Pentecostals view speaking in tongues as an initial sign of Holy Spirit baptism, do they believe these other religious bodies, who practice glossolalia, also hold the truth of the Gospel? This question becomes even more significant when considering the foundational role that speaking in tongues plays in Pentecostal doctrine.

Many other spiritual gifts (healings, miracles, wisdom, and so on) also occur amongst occult practitioners and adherents of other religions. It isn't just tongues. Satan counterfeits the true gifts (II Thessalonians 2:9) - which is why Paul issues the warning in I Corinthians 12:2,3 "No-one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, 'Jesus be cursed'". We are required to exercise discernment (I Thessalonians 5:21), but this seems to be sadly lacking in many charismatic meetings.
Personally, I think that many supposed manifestations of the spiritual gifts today (especially tongues and prophecy) are actually "of the flesh". In other words, people fake them because of social pressure. The teaching that glossolalia always accompanies Holy Spirit baptism is responsible for a lot of this. It must be very difficult to be a Pentecostal Christian if God doesn't give you the gift of tongues.

 

[Triumph1300]

Why all disagreements about the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of Tongues, as described in scripture?

The Lord said he is the same yesterday, today and forever.

You don't want to believe it, fly at at, it's your loss. No problem.

But if you don't receive it or reject it, don't tell people it's from the enemy.

 

[talons]

There are spiritual insights in the recent posts that few believers with spiritual gifts are willing or able to address. The Word of God is filled with a wealth of wisdom that offers true substance to faith, rather than relying on empty or meaningless utterances.
Maybe you need time to discover that.
F2F

I have been discovering things about Christian faith for over 40 years and with God's help I will discover more .
We grow or we stagnate , and you know this too I am sure @face2face .
If you make to it to the Americas we could talk face to face .

 

[Triumph1300]

The spirit of unbelief is alive and well on this thread.

It's nothing new, this spirit has been mentioned in scripture many times.
Just this morning I was reading Mark 16, verses 11 and 13. (Re; Unbelievers)
In 14 The Lord rebukes people for their unbelief.

God send an angel to roll away the stone so people could go in and see the empty grave.
Otherwise when they would see Jesus they would not believe the resurrection.

He is the same yesterday, today and forever.