Sinless perfection is easy

[Eternally Grateful]

What you are claiming is For 66 years you have NOT believed IN God.

um why would be be claiming this?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The big question is (or is it the elephant in the room?) how do we define sin?
Moses had a definition. It was valid, could it have been 'primitive'? perhaps for traumatised short sightedness?

For example, one might never commit adultery by running off with another but does that qualify as 'no adultery' or a trusting, happy marriage/ relationship?
One might never shed blood as did Cain (murder, in case it was missed) but hating another kills just as surely. It kills not only the victim but the protagonist also.

Jesus raises the bar and sin becomes a scarier prospect.....and definitely not 'primitive'. It addresses the thoughts and intents of the heart which go above and beyond the ten .......and which of the tight shorts want to go there....even the ones who disenfranchise The Ten!

the greek words means to miss the mark. what is the mark?

It is also called being in the flesh. which means self.. ie whenever we put self over anyone. we are in sin.

 

[Behold]

Salvation is fellowship.

Salvation is restored Spiritual Union with God... by becoming born again "in Christ"".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Actually, God didnt save you, so that you can behave exactly the way you did before you were saved.

You need to think about what you are posting.

Listen, Christianity is POWER OVER The world, the flesh and the Devil......its not a return to it.

A child of God can not live like he did before. because he has been born of God.

it does not mean they do not continue to fall short of the glory of God (his perfect holiness)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Its pretty foolish to state that if you are being told that you are not to live as a sinner, as you did before you were saved... as you are describing your own Christianity..........its pretty foolish of you to try to deflect that as "self righteousness" on my part.

He never claimed he did this, Please ask his forgiveness for bearing false witness against him.

 

[Behold]

A child of God can not live like he did before. because he has been born of God.

Carnal behavior always feels good, initually... but the Holy Spirit is not going to let you enjoy the feeling., as you did before you were saved.

If you decide to stay in carnality...., you get an extra Hebrews 12:6, along with the regular Hebrews 12:6, that comes anyway.

And if the believer, stays determined to live in carnality, Paul says they will die.

A lot of Christians "go home early"... because they chose to enjoy carnality, willfully, and would not repent of it.

Happens all the time.

Did you read the NT account of DEMAS?

He was as born again as anyone who is born agian.... but He was a young man... and loved the carnal life, and decided to go back.,,"into the world".
It can happen.
A lot of Christians have a testimony that says..>>>"except for that period when i backslid"....

 

[Behold]

He never claimed he did this, Please ask his forgiveness for bearing false witness against him.

You are not a careful reader, but you are very quick to falsely judge.
I hope you find a way to be more honest, regarding future comments..

So, this member stated that this is Christianity..

"""""Jesus was not here to stop us from sinning, but to save us from it when we have and do."""""""


So, the fact is.... Christianity is provided so that we can be "made free from Sin" having power to overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil".

That means that the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, is absolutely designed to "stop us from sinning" by giving us Holy Spirit power over it.
Try to understand that we are not delivered from sin, unless we stop. And the way we stop is to understand what it means to be "not under the Law, but under Grace".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Carnal behavior always feels good, initually... but the Holy Spirit is not going to let you enjoy the feeling., as you did before you were saved.

If you decide to stay in carnality...., you get an extra Hebrews 12:6, along with the regular Hebrews 12:6, that comes anyway.

And if the believer, stays determined to live in carnality, Paul says they will die.

A lot of Christians "go home early"... because they chose to enjoy carnality, willfully, and would not repent of it.

Happens all the time.

Did you read the NT account of DEMAS?

He was as born again as anyone who is born agian.... but He was a young man... and loved the carnal life, and decided to go back.,,"into the world".
It can happen.
A lot of Christians have a testimony that says..>>>"except for that period when i backslid"....

thank you. You just proved my point of why a believer can not live in sin.

Abd you also showed that yes, a believer can still sin. but they will be chastened when they do. In fact. this is what paul says

 

[FearTheLord]

but again, no one does this. I do not do it and you do not do it. lets not decieve ourselves and think we never put our own needs above anyone else's needs. for we would be deceived (a fact John states is true so these are not my words, they are johns

The reason why most Christians don't do this is because they don't understand it. This is because Christianity has been flooded with heretics and apostates as early as the 1st century AD. Paul predicted this in Acts 20.

However, we are to walk by faith, not by sight. That means believing what the Bible says for what it says, and not interpreting it according to our own experiences.

If the New Testament says that love fulfills the Law, that the yoke is easy and the burden is light, and that Jesus' commandments are not burdensome, then that's the truth we are to believe.

We're either set free from the bondage of sin or we're not. If we can't choose to completely stop sinning by walking by the Spirit, then we're still slaves to sin and there is no hope of salvation for us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are not a careful reader, but you are very quick to falsely judge.
I hope you find a way to be smarter, regarding future comments..

Dude you told they guy he claimed he still lived in sin, He did not. he said he still sinned. He never stated he lives in sin .so you even know what living in sin means?

So, this members stated that this is Christianity..

"""""Jesus was not here to stop us from sinning, but to save us from it when we have and do."""""""

True.

Unless you are deceived and think you do not still sin, yet you claim youi are saved. You believe what they guys said also.

So, the fact is.... Christianity is provided so that we can be "made free from Sin" having power to overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil".

Yes, But this does not mean we will be sinless. If you think it does. the apostle john would disagree with you

That means that the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, is absolutely designed to "stop us from sinning" by giving us Holy Spirit power over it.
Try to understand that we are not delivered from sin, unless we stop.

Um no. It is not.

You are deceived.. And you still need to apologize. because you just sinned.. So i would suggest you not only apologize to the poster. But you confess your sin of bearing false witness to God. Maybe he will forgive you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The reason why most Christians don't do this is because they don't understand it. This is because Christianity has been flooded with heretics and apostates as early as the 1st century AD. Paul predicted this in Acts 20.

However, we are to walk by faith, not by sight. That means believing what the Bible says for what it says, and not interpreting it according to our own experiences.

If the New Testament says that love fulfills the Law, that the yoke is easy and the burden is light, and that Jesus' commandments are not burdensome, then that's the truth we are to believe.

We're either set free from the bondage of sin or we're not. If we can't choose to completely stop sinning by walking by the Spirit, then we're still slaves to sin and there is no hope of salvation for us.

I believe every word.

But I will never think I have made it. I will not be deceived to think I do not sin. Not only Does God chasten me when I get out of line (proving I still sin) but I sit there at night, and think of all the times I could have done something nd did not do it. because I was selfish. or whatever things I did.. and I know I do not know all of my sins still I am still leaning. I pray you are also

 

[Behold]

thank you. You just proved my point of why a believer can not live in sin.

Abd you also showed that yes, a believer can still sin. but they will be chastened when they do. In fact. this is what paul says

Well, a believer can live in sin, until they end up destroyed.. .so, that can be death, or it can be a lifetime of misery, that is a consequence of their choice.

What most Christians do.. is have little bursts of carnality.

For example.........millions of Christians pay for NETFLIX, and NETFLIX is a sort porn channel......that is filled with anti-Christ, programs.
So, the Christian will get little "hits" of it... ..time spent watching something that they know is carnal... and if they dont, then that is because when they were convicted inside, regarding watching it, they continued, and now they dont have that anymore, inside them..
They quenched the Spirit, in this area...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well, a believer can live in sin, until they end up destroyed.. .

No they can not live in sin. John makes this clear. Whoever is born of God can not live in sin..

so, that can be death, or it can be a lifetime of misery, that is a consequence of their choice.

We can live as babes in christ. but we can not live in sin.

What most Christians do.. is have little bursts of carnality.

I think what most christians do is refuse to acknowledge what sin they are doing on a daily bases so they can justify to themselves they are not bad people

For example.........millions of Christians pay for NETFLIX, and NETFLIX is a sort porn channel......that is filled with anti-Christ, programs.
So, the Christian will get little "hits" of it... ..time spent watching something that they know is carnal... and if they dont, then that is because when they were convicted inside, regarding watching it, they continued, and now they dont have that anymore, inside them..
They quenched the Spirit, in this area...

Oh boy. LEGALISM ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!

My friend, it does not look good when you p[ump your chest. Paying netflix is not a sin. Now if you pay and watch porn, (I have netflix I have not seen any, but if you say it is there I believe you) then it is a sin.

Jesus drank with sinners. Drinking is not a sin, getting drunk is, same with netflix. it is not a sin, watching the shows could be s sin though.

Lets not be a legalist like the jews..

 

[Behold]

No they can not live in sin. John makes this clear. Whoever is born of God can not live in sin..

If a person understands that being born again means that they exist here...

"where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression".. then they understand 1 John 3:9.

But most Christians believe they are sinners, needing to confess.

So, for them.. they can only understand that their carnality is sin....when its actually not...but they believe they have sin...
Therefore, in their case... when they decide to have an affair with their neighbors wife.. or when the boy in Corinthians decided to fornicate with His Dad's new wife, until he was caught.. then they are "living in "sin"... which is actually just "works of the flesh" they keep on doing.

My friend, it does not look good when you p[ump your chest. Paying netflix is not a sin.

I didnt say that Netflix is a "sin".
I said its a sort porn pay channel that a lot of Christians use... to enjoy their flesh.
If you are doing that, then you need to cancel the membership....
However, if you can use Netflix and not watch the "dirty" programs, then you are safe.. but, you should probably use that money for something "Christian".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If a person understands that being born again means that they exist here...

"where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression".. then they understand 1 John 3:9.

But most Christians believe they are sinners, needing to confess.

or maybe most christians believe in 1 John 1: 8 where John says if we claim we are (presently) not sinning, we decieve ourselves and their is no truth in us.

1 John 3 is clear. a person who lives in sin has never met or known God. A person born of God can not live in sin.

Living in sin is living a lifestyle of everything you do is for self. Your completely in the flesh., everything you do is for something in return, it is motivated by the flesh. and nothing is motivated out of love. Because they can not love, because they have not experienced Gods love.

A new believer is a babe in christ. He has been loved By God. so he has a basic understanding of what love is so he can in turn love others. But he must learn, he must break habits. He must get rid of desires. it does not just happen overnight. and more importantly. The person probably commits many sins he does not even yet know is sin.

so to tell this person they are not sinning, or that if they do not stop sin they are probably not saved, well. I have witnessed this stuff. and seen the damage it can do to people. and I will not sit idly by and let people do that to others.

So, for them.. they can only understand that their carnality is sin....when its actually not...but they believe they have sin...

It goes way deeper than this my friend. a new believer does not even know what this means

So, in their case... when they decide to have an affair with their neighbors wife.. or when the boy in Corinthians decided to fornicate with His Dad's new wife, until he was caught.. then they are "living in "sin"... which is actually just "works of the flesh" they keep on doing.

No, this is not living in sin.

lol. you do not even know what it means. All these people are doing is committing a sin of the flesh.. We all have our besetting sin, Maybe you do not know what yours is. Find out what it is, because I guarantee you have one. Judge not lest you be judged. Come beside these people. Dont judge them.. I can tell you by experience, it does not help..

I didnt say that Netflix is a "sin".
I said it a sort porn pay channel that a lot of Christians use... to enjoy their flesh.
If you are doing that, then you need to cancel the membership....
However, if you can use Netflix and not watch the "dirty" shows, then you are safe.. but, you should probably use that money for something "Christian".

lol.. Judge not lest ye be judged. and yes you did insinuate it was a sin by the way you said it.. But if this is what you meant, then I can agree.

but they are still not living in sin. They have been born of God they can not live in sin

 

[FearTheLord]

I believe every word.

But I will never think I have made it. I will not be deceived to think I do not sin. Not only Does God chasten me when I get out of line (proving I still sin) but I sit there at night, and think of all the times I could have done something nd did not do it. because I was selfish. or whatever things I did.. and I know I do not know all of my sins still I am still leaning. I pray you are also

Then you're essentially saying the New Covenant is a deception.

[1Co 15:34 NKJV] 34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak [this] to your shame.
​

How can we be saved if we haven't even been able to resist sin in day-to-day life, when we're expected to resist to the point of blood?

[Heb 12:3-7 NASB95] 3 For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. 4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; 5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM; 6 FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES." 7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom [his] father does not discipline?
​

God disciplines those who endure. This is what Hebrews 12 said of Jesus and his faithful saints. If we're suffering because of sin, that's not discipline, but justice.

[1Pe 3:17 NASB95] 17 For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.

[1Pe 4:1-2 NASB95] 1 Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.

​

It's completely normal for the heart to condemn us of sins that we may have not really committed. John explained this. In such cases, we are to understand the nature of Jesus' commandments and evaluate our works to either know how to repent, or to assure our hearts of righteousness.

[1Jo 3:18-22 NASB95] 18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. 19 We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him 20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

​

Jesus' commandment is for us to love one another (fellow Christians). This should not be difficult. We're not called to be door-mats for the world to trample. Don't cast your pearls to the swine.

If you really believe every word, then believe it in context and acknowledge it.

​

 

[Taken]

I agree with most of what you said but I don't think these verses are referencing salvation, but fellowship. I don't take these to mean being indwelt by the Spirit. That is something one has by virtue of being saved. The indwelling is permanent. These verses are talking about fellowship, which can grieve the Spirit if you sin. The solution to sin is the confession of it and moving on. By citing our sins we restore our fellowship with Christ.

If you ARE : “Sav-ED”….How is it possible for you to CONTINUE Sinning?

 

[Taken]

or maybe most christians believe in 1 John 1: 8 where John says if we claim we are (presently) not sinning, we decieve ourselves and their is no truth in us.

No…Actually 1 John 1:8 is speaking of a person who CALIMS THEY HAVE “NO” Sin.

Personally, I have never heard anyone claim they HAVE “no sin”.

The Sav-ED HAVE “forgiven sin”.
The UN-Sav-ED HAVE “unforgiven sin”.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then you're essentially saying the New Covenant is a deception.

nope. The new covenant says we are under grace not under law.

[1Co 15:34 NKJV] 34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak [this] to your shame.
​

How can we be saved if we haven't even been able to resist sin in day-to-day life, when we're expected to resist to the point of blood?

lol. Paul could not make it. so you think you can? You said you left protestantism. I assume you are a catholic? they do nto even believe this.

[Heb 12:3-7 NASB95] 3 For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. 4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; 5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM; 6 FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES." 7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom [his] father does not discipline?
​

God disciplines those who endure. This is what Hebrews 12 said of Jesus and his faithful saints. If we're suffering because of sin, that's not discipline, but justice.

[1Pe 3:17 NASB95] 17 For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.

[1Pe 4:1-2 NASB95] 1 Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.

​

It's completely normal for the heart to condemn us of sins that we may have not really committed. John explained this. In such cases, we are to understand the nature of Jesus' commandments and evaluate our works to either know how to repent, or to assure our hearts of righteousness.

[1Jo 3:18-22 NASB95] 18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. 19 We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him 20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

​

Jesus' commandment is for us to love one another (fellow Christians). This should not be difficult. We're not called to be door-mats for the world to trample. Don't cast your pearls to the swine.

If you really believe every word, then believe it in context and acknowledge it.

​

I agree 100 %

What I do not agree with is the notion that one work I did could help remove the penalty of one sin, and help me to be justified.

if you think your Good deeds save you. then you are under law. and I would start to study paul

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No…Actually 1 John 1:8 is speaking of a person who CALIMS THEY HAVE “NO” Sin.

Personally, I have never heard anyone claim they HAVE “no sin”.

The Sav-ED HAVE “forgiven sin”.
The UN-Sav-ED HAVE “unforgiven sin”.

Glory to God,
Taken

there are people in here who think they have no sin.. that they have achieved sinless perfection.

so if you have not heard anyone say this, I would say keep listening, because you will