What sort of death did A&E die in the day they ate thereof?

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Grailhunter

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I've thought several times that RPG's should be covered under the 2nd Amendment! Grenades too maybe, seeing as how they're only good to pistol ranges, lol. (Not my revolver distances but the semi-autos).



The reasoning of the founding fathers….They lived and fought against the tyrannical rule of Britain and they were educated men with world experience, they new that the world lived under tyrannical rule, and tyrannical rule was what would normally form..... or revert to.

When they were forming the only nation that freedom was the rule they knew that freedom would always be challenged. From within and from without. An armed nation could always defend itself if the nation turned tyrannical and would be armed if an enemy attacked on our soil. That theory was proven in the War of 1812. The Brits were shaking in their boots, they not only had to deal with military formations on the battle front, but they were being shot at from all directions. That concept still applies for example when they come to take your child for a sex change. Or a line of illegal aliens charge your house. The media does not show the number of homes along the southern border that have their windows boarded up.
 
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MA2444

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The reasoning of the founding fathers….They lived and fought against the tyrannical rule of Britain and they were educated men with world experience, they new that the world lived under tyrannical rule, and tyrannical rule was what would normally form..... or revert to.

When they were forming the only nation that freedom was the rule they knew that freedom would always be challenged. From within and from without. An armed nation could always defend itself if the nation turned tyrannical and would be armed if an enemy attacked on our soil. That theory was proven in the War of 1812. The Brits were shaking in their boots, they not only had to deal with military formations on the battle front, but they were being shot at from all directions. That concept still applies for example when they come to take your child for a sex change. Or a line of illegal aliens charge your house. The media does not show the number of homes along the southern border that have their windows boarded up.

I always had to laugh at the boston tea party, lol. Here is to your rule and to your taxes!

Looks like the founding fathers were right. This is a good time in history to be armed. It's not good what all is going on and geez it wouldnt surprise me if it came out that Bigfoots starting attacking people, being the modern form of the Nephilim. Hope not for sure but if that happens...heavy calibers might help over 9mm's and 223's!

But like I said, I hope not.
 
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TheHC

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Cain went to land of Nod and took a wife…
What does Genesis 3:20 say, and what bearing does this have on the issue?

Either Cain’s wife was his sister, or a niece.

No guessing needed. Only reasoning.
 

St. SteVen

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Grailhunter

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What does Genesis 3:20 say, and what bearing does this have on the issue?

Either Cain’s wife was his sister, or a niece.

No guessing needed. Only reasoning.
It has been a while….but I think the topic was genealogies out of the Paradise of Delights.
 

ProDeo

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I posit that they died spiritually that day. They were not immortal/eternal beings that became mortal in that day.
On the other hand, we are immortal beings. An afterlife awaits us all. Many aspects to explore on this.
Moving in late, I know sml

My 2 cents -

The phrase Spiritual death is not in Scripture but it can be summarized as follows -

. A&E lived in the presence of God.
. When they were removed away from the presence of the Lord they became Spiritual death, not physical.
. Revelation speaks of the second death, the final removal from the presence of the Lord.

Not sure if I am right.
 

ProDeo

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So true.
Perhaps not the ultimate answer, but insightful for sure.
Still an argument from silence. While the fact it's not there it's logical the Lord would have explained them (you will be separated from Me and be alone on a hostile place) or Adam simply could have asked.

At the end of Genesis chapter two they were naked and unashamed.
After the transgression they were scrambling to cover themselves
because SOMEONE told them that they were naked. (shamed them)
Their conscience became active ?
 
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Ritajanice

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Moving in late, I know sml

My 2 cents -

The phrase Spiritual death is not in Scripture but it can be summarized as follows -

. A&E lived in the presence of God.
. When they were removed away from the presence of the Lord they became Spiritual death, not physical.
I see it that way as well.
. Revelation speaks of the second death, the final removal from the presence of the Lord.
What does this mean?
Not sure if I am right.
 

IronMaiden

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I posit that they died spiritually that day. They were not immortal/eternal beings that became mortal in that day.
On the other hand, we are immortal beings. An afterlife awaits us all. Many aspects to explore on this.

Genesis 3:22 NIV
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Luke 20:37-38 NIV
But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise,
for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[a]
38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

John 5:24 NIV
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life
and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Ephesians 2:1, 4-5 NIV
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, ...
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—
it is by grace you have been saved.

--- ADDENDUM ---


Perhaps this is a back way in to my position that A&E died spiritually that day.
The threat of physical death was meaningless unless they were immortal beings.

However, if the consequences were spiritual death (separation from God) then that fits the plan of salvation better.
Is not our redemption intended to undo the consequences of the Fall? How does that work if the consequence was physical death?

--- SUMMARY STATEMENT ---

I launched this topic with a specific aim in mind. The answer to the topic title question.
But was mostly met with figurative blank stares as respondents seemed puzzled about my conclusion.
The answer seemed obvious to me and I had never really had to prove it to anyone before.

And initially we were bogged down with a definition of physical death.

So, the thread became an exploration of various views on the subject and a fleshing out of my own position.
I needed to provide some biblical evidence to satisfy the skeptics. Okay, fine...
Which proved to be a challenge for me. How could I substantiate what was so clear to me?
It became a discovery process as I searched for evidence. Here's what we discovered.
What sort of life and death are referred to in these passages?

John 5:24 NIV
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged
but has crossed over from death to life.

Ephesians 2:1-5 NIV
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air,
the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts.
Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—
it is by grace you have been saved.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You were dead in your transgressions and sins.
But God made you alive with Christ.
(Eph. 2:1-5)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Colossians 2:13-14
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh,
God made you[a] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us
and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

John 3:3-8 NIV
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked.
“Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you,
no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[a] gives birth to spirit.
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[b] must be born again.’
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where
it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[c]

Revelation 3:1 NIV
“To the angel[a] of the church in Sardis write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits[b] of God and the seven stars.
I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

Romans 8:9-11 NIV
You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit,
if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ,
they do not belong to Christ.
10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin,
the Spirit gives life[a] because of righteousness.
11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you,
he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies
because of
[b] his Spirit who lives in you.
Interesting… The way I understand it, the corruptible earthly body putting on the incorruptible spiritual body is not the same thing as the mortal putting on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (KJV) 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

When we die, we will be given a spiritual body that's incorruptible but not necessarily immortal. Only believers are given immortality, which means eternal life.
 
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ProDeo

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Ever wonder what a "soul" is, and how it differs from a "spirit"?
My 2 cents again, life gets expensive this way -

Soul - the unique personality.
Spirit - the part we can communicate with God, we can learn and understand God.
Conscience - it's probably part of the soul or spirit. And we can re-program it by Scripture or the indwelling Holy Spirit.
 

ProDeo

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Did it ever occur to you that there is a large army of Satan’s minions who have capabilities of influencing the minds of human beings? Can these spirits invade the thinking of a dying mind?
Not without the express permission of God, the devil is on a leash, see Job.
 
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St. SteVen

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Ritajanice

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Genesis 3

King James Version

3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
 

Ritajanice

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The tree of life now, can only be found in Jesus...

The fact that the tree of life mentioned in Revelation is in heaven is confirmed by Jesus words at Revelation 2:7: Revelation 2:7 NW — Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God

The true vine, we are the grafted in branches.

Only a Born Again is grafted into the true vine...when we become Born Of The Spirit, Gods seed will always remain in us.

Born Again of imperishable / incorruptible seed .
 
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