What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

[Carl Emerson]

To be clear, I make neither of those claims.

But I do believe the biblical term "praying in the Spirit" is a reference to tongues.

The question remains about the biblical aspect.
Why specify "praying in the Spirit" if all prayer is in the Spirit?
What specifically are the writers asking us to do? See post #456.

[

I wouldn't call it a Biblical term, just a phrase used in the text.

Not all prayer is in the Spirit.

 

[St. SteVen]

I wouldn't call it a Biblical term, just a phrase used in the text.

How would answer the question then?

Why specify "praying in the Spirit"?
What specifically are the writers asking us to do?

• 1 Corinthians 14:15
  So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding;
  I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
  
  
• Ephesians 6:18
  And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests.
  With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
  
  
• Jude 1:20
  But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith
  and praying in the Holy Spirit,

[

 

[St. SteVen]

I wouldn't call it a Biblical term, just a phrase used in the text.

Did you really write that? (seems absurd)

• 1 Corinthians 14:15
  So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding;
  I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
  
  
• Ephesians 6:18
  And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests.
  With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
  
  
• Jude 1:20
  But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith
  and praying in the Holy Spirit,

[

 

[Truther]

Yes it is - but you are assuming that is the only way to pray in the Spirit.

According to Paul, it is.

 

[Truther]

Speaking in unknown tongues is praying WITH the human spirit. If a person doesn’t practice unknown tongues, they don’t pray with the human spirit( with groanings that cannot be uttered).
It is human reasoning prayer only.

 

[St. SteVen]

According to Paul, it is.

Yup. (and Jude)

• Romans 8:26
  In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for,
  but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
  
  
• 1 Corinthians 14:14
  For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
  
  
• 1 Corinthians 14:15
  So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding;
  I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
  
  
• Ephesians 6:18
  And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests.
  With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
  
  
• Jude 1:20
  But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith
  and praying in the Holy Spirit,

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Speaking in unknown tongues is praying WITH the human spirit.

That's an interesting point.
I noticed that earlier, but didn't want to further muddy the waters.

In context this is referring to a message in tongues delivered to the congregation.
(the gift of tongues, preferable with interpretation) A manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
But this says "with my spirit". What is going on here?

1 Corinthians 14:15
So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding;
I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

[

 

[Truther]

Yup. (and Jude)

• Romans 8:26
  In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for,
  but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
  
  
• 1 Corinthians 14:14
  For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
  
  
• 1 Corinthians 14:15
  So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding;
  I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
  
  
• Ephesians 6:18
  And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests.
  With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
  
  
• Jude 1:20
  But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith
  and praying in the Holy Spirit,

[

There is something called praying with the human spirit by the assistance of the Holy Spirit. Two different spirits. A human spirit enabled by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Truther]

That's an interesting point.
I noticed that earlier, but didn't want to further muddy the waters.

In context this is referring to a message in tongues delivered to the congregation.
(the gift of tongues, preferable with interpretation) A manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
But this says "with my spirit". What is going on here?

1 Corinthians 14:15
So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding;
I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

[

Yes, I have been practicing this concept for decades. It is the Holy Spirit using my human spirit to pray things that I cannot utter in my carnal thinking.

 

[Carl Emerson]

According to Paul, it is.

Then you have misunderstood Paul - other scriptures don't agree...

● Gal 4:6 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of His
son into your hearts calling out: Abba! Father.

● Rom 8:15 . . For you have not received a spirit of bondage again to fear;
but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba!
Father.

 

[St. SteVen]

Then you have misunderstood Paul - other scriptures don't agree...

● Gal 4:6 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of His
son into your hearts calling out: Abba! Father.

● Rom 8:15 . . For you have not received a spirit of bondage again to fear;
but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba!
Father.

What does that have to do with praying in the Spirit?

[

 

[Truther]

Then you have misunderstood Paul - other scriptures don't agree...

● Gal 4:6 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of His
son into your hearts calling out: Abba! Father.

● Rom 8:15 . . For you have not received a spirit of bondage again to fear;
but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba!
Father.

That has nothing to do with speaking in tongues. Nor does it have to do with praying with your human spirit as your understanding is unfruitful.

 

[Carl Emerson]

What does that have to do with praying in the Spirit?

[

What causes the elect to cry out to their Father ?

 

[St. SteVen]

What causes the elect to cry out to their Father ?

Things didn't go as planned?

[

 

[Carl Emerson]

Things didn't go as planned?

[

Steve please - I refer to the Scriptures I posted...

The answer is the Holy Spirit and this reference is not about tongues.

● Gal 4:6 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of His
son into your hearts calling out: Abba! Father.

● Rom 8:15 . . For you have not received a spirit of bondage again to fear;
but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba!
Father.

 

[St. SteVen]

Steve please - I refer to the Scriptures I posted...

A failed attempt at humor on my part.

The answer is the Holy Spirit and this reference is not about tongues.

Not about the Holy Spirit.
It's not about prayer either.

● Gal 4:6 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of His
son into your hearts calling out: Abba! Father.

Says "the spirit of His son". Is that the Holy Spirit?
And "hearts calling out: Abba! Father." Is that prayer?
Hearts call out?

● Rom 8:15 . . For you have not received a spirit of bondage again to fear;
but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba!
Father.

Says "a spirit of adoption". Is that the Holy Spirit?
And "we call out: Abba! Father." Is that prayer?
Could be. But not specific.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

Turn the other cheek, or turn over some tables? - When do we do what?

This begs some questions about how to best handle the abuse of others. - When do we turn the other cheek? And... - When do we turn over some tables? Jesus did both. Acts 4:18-20 NIV Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19 But...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[JLB]

In a previous topic we explored why the baptized believers in Samaria hadn't received the Holy Spirit.

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

The typical response to the question about the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, is tongues.
But when I read the book of the Acts of the Apostles, I see it is not limited to tongues.
I conclude that any manifestation of the Holy Spirit could be the initial evidence.

Would you limit the initial evidence to speaking in tongues?

Here are the scriptures that led to my conclusions on this.

Acts 10:46 NIV
For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God. ...

Acts 19:6 NIV
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them,
and they spoke in tongues[a] and prophesied.

/

The “initial“ evidence is speaking in tongues; a beautiful prayer language.

 

[St. SteVen]

The “initial“ evidence is speaking in tongues; a beautiful prayer language.

That is preferable. But what do you make of these examples below?

Would you limit the initial evidence to speaking in tongues?

Here are the scriptures that led to my conclusions on this.

Acts 10:46 NIV
For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God. ...

Acts 19:6 NIV
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them,
and they spoke in tongues[a] and prophesied.

[

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Acts 10:46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God

How would they of the circumcision know Cornelius' household was praising
God unless the tongues they spoke were real-life foreign languages?
_