Lambano
Well-Known Member
Sometimes I get the same feeling around here. Maybe it's me that is the foreigner, a stranger in a strange land.
What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
OK on the list, but a true believer, born again, may experience none of the 5 you list.
Sad but true. Tragic. IMHO
This is the result of Cessationist doctrine.
2 Timothy 3:5 NIV
having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
1 Corinthians 2:4-5 NIV
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words,
but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power,
5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
[
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Yes there are fellowships that teach that tongues are Satanic like the Plymouth Brethren.
But Bapist churches in the 50's when I came to faith were more 'innocently uninformed' and were enlightened when the revival of the 70's struck.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
● 2Cor 13:5 . . Examine yourselves, whether you're in the faith; test your
own selves. Don't you know of your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in
you, unless you're all reprobates?
* The Greek word translated "reprobates" basically means unapproved,
rejected, and/or worthless. Apparently Paul was suggesting the Corinthians
might actually be make-believers instead of true blue.
Many years ago as a fledgling Christian-- back around 1973 or so --I was
reading a passage in the 8th chapter of the book of Romans that goes like
this:
"You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God
dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His."
At the time, it seemed reasonable to me that were someone inside my body
I should be able to tell; but I could not; and that made me nervous. So I
contacted the pastor of a conservative church in my area and shared my
concerns with him.
Well; he said-- in so many words --that the Spirit of Christ is supernatural,
and as such cannot be detected by means of our five natural senses of taste,
touch, sight, hearing, and smell.
You see; I was expecting the Spirit of Christ to have substance but the Spirit has
no substance.
"The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell
where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the
Spirit." (John 3:8)
Well; in time I discovered that the only proof-positive way for individuals to
know for sure whether Christ is in them is by getting it from the horse's mouth.
● Rom 8:15 . .The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's
children.
The Greek word translated "testifies" means to corroborate; defined by
Webster's as: to support or help prove (a statement, theory, etc.) by
providing information or evidence.
This kind of support usually isn't public: it's private. In other words: it's one
on one, spirit to spirit, heart to heart. Needless to say then, this kind of
corroboration is supernatural rather than academic which is why Paul said to
"test your own selves" rather than testing others because it's on an
individual basis, i.e. no one but you and God together can do this for you.
Smokey the Bear says: Only you can prevent forest fires, whereas Christianity
says: Only you can know whether Christ is in you.
NOTE: Mother Teresa complained in private letters to spiritual counselors
that she felt not the slightest glimmer of the Lord's presence during virtually
her entire five decades of missionary service in India.
In other words: Rom 8:15 never happened for Teresa and were I one of her
admirers I would sure as shootin' want to know why not! I mean: wasn't she
practically a poster child in piety and perseverance? And wasn't she fast
tracked to sainthood? You mean to tell me that the most famous role model
of the 20th century was unsure of her association with Christ?
Heaven's silence was so persistent that the poor woman came to the end of
her life wondering whether there really is a God out there. Well; the only
realistic conclusion I can draw from Teresa's experience is that she was
reprobate and didn't know it because she never thought to follow Paul's
instructions per 2Cor 13:5
_
● 2Cor 13:5 . . Examine yourselves, whether you're in the faith; test your
own selves. Don't you know of your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in
you, unless you're all reprobates?
* The Greek word translated "reprobates" basically means unapproved,
rejected, and/or worthless. Apparently Paul was suggesting the Corinthians
might actually be make-believers instead of true blue.
Many years ago as a fledgling Christian-- back around 1973 or so --I was
reading a passage in the 8th chapter of the book of Romans that goes like
this:
"You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God
dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His."
At the time, it seemed reasonable to me that were someone inside my body
I should be able to tell; but I could not; and that made me nervous. So I
contacted the pastor of a conservative church in my area and shared my
concerns with him.
Well; he said-- in so many words --that the Spirit of Christ is supernatural,
and as such cannot be detected by means of our five natural senses of taste,
touch, sight, hearing, and smell.
You see; I was expecting the Spirit of Christ to have substance but the Spirit has
no substance.
"The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell
where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the
Spirit." (John 3:8)
Well; in time I discovered that the only proof-positive way for individuals to
know for sure whether Christ is in them is by getting it from the horse's mouth.
● Rom 8:15 . .The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's
children.
The Greek word translated "testifies" means to corroborate; defined by
Webster's as: to support or help prove (a statement, theory, etc.) by
providing information or evidence.
This kind of support usually isn't public: it's private. In other words: it's one
on one, spirit to spirit, heart to heart. Needless to say then, this kind of
corroboration is supernatural rather than academic which is why Paul said to
"test your own selves" rather than testing others because it's on an
individual basis, i.e. no one but you and God together can do this for you.
Smokey the Bear says: Only you can prevent forest fires, whereas Christianity
says: Only you can know whether Christ is in you.
NOTE: Mother Teresa complained in private letters to spiritual counselors
that she felt not the slightest glimmer of the Lord's presence during virtually
her entire five decades of missionary service in India.
In other words: Rom 8:15 never happened for Teresa and were I one of her
admirers I would sure as shootin' want to know why not! I mean: wasn't she
practically a poster child in piety and perseverance? And wasn't she fast
tracked to sainthood? You mean to tell me that the most famous role model
of the 20th century was unsure of her association with Christ?
Heaven's silence was so persistent that the poor woman came to the end of
her life wondering whether there really is a God out there. Well; the only
realistic conclusion I can draw from Teresa's experience is that she was
reprobate and didn't know it because she never thought to follow Paul's
instructions per 2Cor 13:5
_
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
What you posted is how the Assembly of God old timers from the '50s and '60's, use to try to sell "tongues" to the easily deceived, and were clueless., and still are, clueless.
If you own a bible, turn to Acts 2:38, and Notice that Peter is speaking/preaching using the "gift of Tongues" and no one is interpreting it, because the Jews there during Pentecost, "all heard in their own language".
So...What will you say now? = ...."""""ooooopss...i meant to say that there is a 3rd use of "tongues", that i forgot to mention, that i never knew before...""".
Ridiculous.
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Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
Mother Teresa's use of words like "slightest glimmer" suggests to me that
either way would've been appreciated
_
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
I don't see Acts 2:38 saying that...
Certainly when the Spirit initially fell, believers gave utterance in many tongues as a sign to the Jews.
But when Peter preached it would have been in the common language of the time, understood by all.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Here is the rule for interpreting what happened on the Day of Pentecost and for either type of tongues (Mark 16, 1 Cor. 12).
1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
Those who stretch the truth to what they've been told do not rightly divide the Word of God.
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
On the Day of Pentecost the Jews listening were not hearing their own languages naturally, but supernaturally. The emphasis was on the hearing. The Holy Spirit allowed the 3,000 Jews to have the gift of interpretation of tongues to draw them to Christ. So, it wasn't a third use. The 120 disciples were heard like a choir, not a cacophony of different languages causing confusion.
Behold, I see you have not overcome your habit of provoking fellow Christians. Paul doesn't want us to even have lunch with provokers. Jesus is coming very soon, so you best overcome that habit.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Other way around. Cessasionist doctrine exists because, for whatever reason, God chose not to distribute the Gifts as often as in the first century.
Think about it: Since when does ANY of us have any say in what gifts God decides to give us? Does the gifts God gives depend on our doctrine?
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Chapter 12 indicates that divers kinds of tongues is of the nine gifts of the spirit. Chapter 14 teaches that unknown tongues is an example of one having the Holy Ghost. It is not one of the nine gifts, but an essential part of understanding that you have the Holy Ghost. Paul says at the end of the chapter to cease not to speak in tongues. He’s speaking of unknown tongues.
Well, 1 Corinthians chapter 12 refers to them as body parts.
Many want to make the church an amputee.
[
That's good. Chapter 14 also says this.
1 Corinthians 14:2 NIV
For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God. ...
[
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Let me show you..
Peter preached, under the anointing of the Holy Spirit.. in Acts 2 (Pentecost).
All those in the Upper Room , including Peter, had received a Gift of the Spirit.
That is Acts 2 :2-3-4
In verse 6, you read that people who were of other languages.. "Heard".... the gift of the Spirit (tongues) that were coming from all those in Acts 2 2-4.
They said this...
....................7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God....................
So, these are the same who heard Peter preach .... So, Acts 2:38 is the resolution, more or less, of Peter's entire message give in "tongues" that they could understand.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is what i showed you, because you stated that this requires an "interpreter".
So, it does not., and i explained that your "old Assembly of God" theology, is not of the Bible.
Its nonsense.
its that Jimmy Swaggart baloney "infilling" theology ... that the AOG denomination puts out to keep their sheep deceived.
Its False.
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