Define salvation. ( what is "the Gospel")

[Behold]

And as a Christian who has been baptized doesnt it say in scripture wash yourselves in the water of the word.

THat is Ephesians 5.. its says that Jesus will do that to His Bride.

We study His word to be approved and it teaches us that (while we are reading the word, the word is reading us) and we get Rhemas in verses that speak to us and either accuse us or affirm us!

THe word of God feeds you, cleans you, reveals to you its treasure, heals you, grows you....

But that's in the water of the word. It transforms us by the renewing of our minds in Christ.

Or the word of God can become the Tool of the Devil and lead you into Crazy.

The Devil used the Bible, for example, against John Calvin, and he ended up creating a Cross Denying insane Theology that Has God choosing to not allow some people to Trust in Christ.

How Crazy is that?

Well, for the Calvinist that might read this...


To Say that God wont allow some people to become Christians......is saying that Jesus wont allow some people to trust in Him.

WHAT GOD is that?
WHAT JESUS IS THAT?

So John Calvin's God, and Christ, are not found in the NT., and thats a fact.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Paul preached the Gospel.



Apollos did also, and perhaps taught more.



The seed of the word, that is Paul's Gospel, fell on good ground in many hearts, and God gave the "born again"... increase.

See, WE can't do the literal spiritual birthing.... as only the Holy Spirit, is capable of performing a spiritual birth inside the body of a Human Being.
What we do, is SEED the Gospel, into the hearing of the unbeliever and then "faith comes by hearing".

This means that they HEAR about Jesus dying for them, and why, and now having heard this Gospel SEED, that is Spiritual, that is The Gospel... God then reveals it as TRUTH in their heart.......and then they have to option to take a step of faith, that becomes.. OUR "faith is counted by God as (Christ's) Righteousness". and that is..>>"as many as will BELIEVE".

Peter preached the gospel before Paul
Acts 3
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Same gospel as Jesus, James ,John, and Paul.

Only one Holy Spirit inspires all men of God, but the bible is the final word against any error of 2 gospels.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I seem to remember being taught in my junior high church choir, that "gospel" means "good news." But I think generally most people think of "gospel" as meaning the first four books of the New Testament and the message therein.

Do I understand what salvation is? I think most think of "salvation" as not going to hell after they die. However, I think we can find ourselves in overwhelmingly bad circumstances here on earth, and salvation would refer to how the Lord can step into our lives and rescue us from those circumstances.

yes it is

 

[Behold]

Peter preached the gospel before Paul
Acts 3
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

You posted that Jesus was slain., and that Jesus did miracles., in front of Jews., and that God raised Jesus from the dead.

So, that is not Paul's Gospel.
Its not any Gospel......>Its a history lesson, being given to JEWS..... that ends with a resurrected Jew as the final page of the story.

Paul's Gospel, explains to YOU< that Jesus died for your SIN.., and that is not found in this "history of Jesus" that you believe is the Gospel, and is definitely not. @rebuilder 454 .

 

[MA2444]

Well, once the Body of Christ is Raptured, then "restraint" ends.

Of course. And the Kingdom of God deals with the spiritual portion and earth bound believers do their part in the natural realm and so we (at least help) in restraining. In the natural realm they are hitting us with Government and insanity and evil and madness and we have restrained them this election by the biggest voter turn out in years (maybe ever?!) and Trump won a landslide victory! WHy speciffically? Well because we prayed first and voted for Trump also. I got one person to vote that had never voted before at all!

We did our job. And you're right, once we get raptured, all restraint is gone. The age of grace is over and the church age.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You posted that Jesus was slain., and that Jesus did miracles., in front of Jews., and that God raised Jesus from the dead.

So, that is not Paul's Gospel.
Its not any Gospel......>Its a history lesson, being given to JEWS..... that ends with a resurrected Jew as the final page of the story.

Paul's Gospel, explains to YOU< that Jesus died for your SIN.., and that is not found in this "history of Jesus" that you believe is the Gospel, and is definitely not. @rebuilder 454 .

Nope Peter was there
he saw the death burial and the resurrection.
Peter knew exactly what the gospel is, and was, and that there's nothing else.
You actually have to assume that Peter was completely ignorant of what happened on the cross, of what happened in the Tomb, of what happened at the resurrection.
That is utterly ridiculous.
But it gets worse.
Because the gospel story is one of simplicity.
You seek to complicate it into Oblivion.
It's just so simple.
that's why I asked everybody what is the gospel, and what is salvation.

that's why I'm asking that question.

It started in the garden.
it was the great dilemma of the separation of God and man.
Holy God.... and sinful man.
There was only one remedy .
only one remedy could ever exist.
That remedy has a name.
His name is Jesus.
Psssst...his name means salvation.

That's what salvation is.
it's not the magic words of Paul.
It's not any phrase that you can come up with from the Bible
(which is what you're trying to do).

Salvation is a person .

and his name is Jesus.
Jesus is the remedy.
Jesus is salvation.
Jesus preached of himself.
Jesus came and he showed us he is the only way to the father.
Paul preached the same exact thing. John preached the same exact thing.
Peter preached the same exact thing.
James preached the same exact thing.
What I'm saying is you really don't understand what salvation is, and you really don't understand what the gospel is.
There was never ever any salvation outside of Jesus.
All the animal sacrifices pointed to Jesus.
When Jesus came, John the Baptist said the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.
Under your complicated Doctrine you don't even know that the Old Testament ended at Jesus's baptism .
Jesus himself said the law and the prophets ended with John.
You've got such a complicated gospel that you don't even know what you're talking about.
The beauty of the Gospel is the Simplicity of the Gospel.
It starts with holy God, sinful man.
... and the remedy is Jesus.

it's not any phrase of the Bible that you can come up with it's a person and his name is Jesus.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Christianity has sunk into the level of man's Dogma.
When I got saved it was during the charismatic movement , and Jesus was just as real as anything on this planet.
His presence was so powerful so life-changing, it was just amazing, the transformation that I saw in myself and others.
Me and all my friends came from Heathen families we had no knowledge of any Doctrine, no knowledge of the Bible, and yet ***boom *** we were powerfully saved and transformed and fellowshipping with Jesus and born again.

Man ,when I see these formulas, and this silly two gospel bologna, it just actually sickens me in my spirit, to think that there's two holy spirits one Leading Men astray through Peter James and John into some strange gospel of salvation by works.
And supposedly the only one that had any sense at all was Paul, and his exquisite separate gospel from a different spirit of God, and from a different Holy Spirit, and only he can lead men to Jesus.
Everybody else, such as Peter, James ,and John, are going to lead you into hell cuz it's not the true gospel.
WHat a load of pure garbage.
Who has bewitched you Christians into a lie of the Bible teaching 2 gospels????????

 

[MA2444]

Go on...

Ok.

Look at them. Really look at them, not just superficially, but study them in detail. Take your time. Where do they overlap? Where does the Gospel of the Kingdom go beyond Paul's Gospel of Salvation?

Acts is the book of transition into the new Covenant. In the beginning it is Peter and john and later Paul talking to the the old covenant church

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost..../KJV

Then we have Acts 10
44 Even as Peter was saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who were listening to the message.
45 The Jewish believers[e] who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles, too.
46 For they heard them speaking in other tongues[f] and praising God.
Then Peter asked,
47 “Can anyone object to their being baptized, now that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?” 48 So he gave orders for them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Afterward Cornelius asked him to stay with them for several days..../NLT

Here is the overlap. These gentiles got Baptised by the Holy Spirit so they were already saved and not yet water baptized, but more than that, it is all about being baptised in the name of Jesus

1 Peter 3:21
21 And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from[g] a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ..../NLT

So as the covenants overlap water baptism no longer saves you, it is not for the remission of sins. It is just a shadow now to us but is our response to God that we are with Him. Count me In!

All in the same book. Jesus had already ascended to heaven so the new teaching was coming out of the new covenant. Believe and confess in faith thru grace.

 

[Behold]

Nope Peter was there
he saw the death burial and the resurrection.

You posted that Jesus was slain., and that Jesus did miracles., in front of Jews., and that God raised Jesus from the dead.

So, that is not Paul's Gospel.
Its not any Gospel......>Its a history lesson, being given to JEWS..... that ends with a resurrected Jew as the final page of the story.

Paul's Gospel, explains to YOU< that Jesus died for your SIN.., and that is not found in this "history of Jesus" that you believe is the Gospel, and is definitely not. @rebuilder 454 .

 

[MA2444]

yes it is

I don't know about that. After I got baptized in the Spirit I came to the conclusion that the real reward in heaven is going to be being able to dwell in the Creators very presence at all times. I think all those other things are just...and all these things shall be added unto you...?? That makes more sense to me!

 

[David in NJ]

Well, once the Body of Christ is Raptured, then "restraint" ends.

Not anywhere found in scripture.
And that is how a heresy is born = make things up that God never said, and even worse is to speak against what God says!!!

@MA2444

 

[MA2444]

Not anywhere found in scripture.
And that is how a heresy is born = make things up that God never said, and even worse is to speak against what God says!!!

@MA2444

Lots of things are not i scripture spelled out but it doesnt mean it doesnt exist or there is no truth at all outside of scripture.

Where is cell phone in scripture? Where is remote control? It's not in there.

You don't have to believe that the church is the restrainer. That's fine. But why didnt you post what was said that goes against what God says? What does God say? You cant knee jerk and say something like that without posting what you feel is truth of the matter.

 

[Ritajanice]

I had started another thread earlier and evidently there's not been too much of exposure to the two gospel Theory that seems to be taken hold in several Christian Ministries. But I came across a post where someone was declaring that the gospel is this or that. And so I have a question for the members here do you know what the gospel is? Do you understand what exactly salvation is?

Salvation, means to be saved from eternal damnation.

That is why we must be Born Again.

The gospel is the good news...Jesus the Messiah spread the good news, he also testified of the Holy Spirit ,who will be his witness ,after Jesus death and resurrection,...Jesus is not Alive in body on the earth, but we well know the Holy Spirit is, because those who are his, have been spiritually birthed by Him..

We must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God, Only then do we receive those spiritual eyes/ ears..without the eyes and ears ( spiritual ) one is still in darkness..

Born of the Spirit, then children of God.

 

[Ritajanice]

Lots of things are not i scripture spelled out but it doesnt mean it doesnt exist or there is no truth at all outside of scripture.

This is very true, Gods Living word is Alive active and everywhere, it can’t be contained to what is just written in the Bible... and it’s ridiculous to even think it could be,imo.

 

[MA2444]

This is very true, Gods Living word is Alive active and everywhere, it can’t be contained to what is just written in the Bible... and it’s ridiculous to even think it could be,imo.

Us Christians have to be careful reading the word! Because with an english reading and it says, the word of God, it could mean Logos or Rhema and everybody receives rhemas whether they know it or not. That is beneath the text of the Logos where it can not be seen.

Do the readers even understand what a Rhema is? Next time you read the word of God and it says anything like the "word" of God, go look that up in the Concordance and see if it was translated from Logos or Rhema. It blew my mind to see how many times it was rhema! And that will change the text to bring on a new meaning for the passage, because it's talking about receiving an unseen word from God. It's like intuition sort of but stronger. Something that touches our heart and our thoughts thru our heart and we receive knowledge.

I dont know but perhaps I received a rhema yesterday when I said the other poster made me realize that the church is the restrainer? I dont really know because we weren't thinking about rhemas, just the topic. But it could have been. Who says that was my thought? I thought it was, lol!

I guess the point is that, because it didnt appear in the Logos scripture doesnt detract from it's truth (if it was a rhema). I thought it was my own speculation. I wasnt being dogmatic, but I realized that it fit is all.

So prudent Christians should not knee jerk in rejection of things like that because they do happen. But dont Believe me! Next time it says the Word in scripture while you're reading, stop and goto BlueletterBible.org And look it up and see if what was written was talking about Logos or Rhemas. "The Word" of God is all over scripture, look up every one that says word today and tomorrow and I promise you, you will be surprised and learn something.

It's a fundamental truth that not everything is in scripture! These are the last days Brothers & Sisters, and knowledge has been increased! That wasnt just talking about technology but the knowledge of God too!

 

[Behold]

We did our job. And you're right, once we get raptured, all restraint is gone. The age of grace is over and the church age.

The Born again are "salt and light" within this world.
The CHRISTian is the only JESUS that an unbelieving world is going to WITNESS, and when we are gone.....

= Welcome to the : Tribulation.

 

[Behold]

"The Word" of God is all over scripture,

Yes,


"""" and Jesus is the WORD made Flesh, who dwelt among us and we beheld His glory...."""

And "Jesus walked with them... soon after He was resurrected and they were kept from recognizing Him, and Jesus began to open the scriptures to them... showing them all about Himself"..

And that is the OT... as Jesus didnt have the NT yet...

So what is that??
That is an interesting phenomenon that happens to people who begin to SEE the word of God as "more than just a book."

And once that happens........this will be shown to you.

= You will begin to SEE JESUS, .. all over the bible........NT.. OT.... The verses will begin to show you, JESUS....., and before... you didnt see that, unless the verse was talking about Jesus.

THat's what will happen when a person begins to love the word of God....and "studies (the BIBLE) to show themselves approved unto God"...

 

[MA2444]

The Born again are "salt and light" within this world.
The CHRISTian is the only JESUS that an unbelieving world is going to WITNESS, and when we are gone.....

= Welcome to the : Tribulation.

We wrestle not against people, flesh and blood. But with Evil Spirits and demons who continually entice people to sin in every way and so for sure all the evil spirits feel the presence of the Lord upon earth and will also perceive that the restrainer that was making it tough for them...is gone! Now what's left is easily enticeable people (and perhaps 144,000 fence sitters who caught fire upon realizing they were left behind?)

So the rapture doesnt cause the Tribulation at the same time or anything but they will start making moves very quickly and the world is going to change overnight. Hello Tribulation like you say!

 

[MA2444]

Yes,


"""" and Jesus is the WORD made Flesh, who dwelt among us and we beheld His glory...."""

And "Jesus walked with them... soon after He was resurrected and they were kept from recognizing Him, and Jesus began to open the scriptures to them... showing them all about Himself"..

And that is the OT... as Jesus didnt have the NT yet...

So what is that??
That is an interesting phenomenon that happens to people who begin to SEE the word of God as "more than just a book."

And once that happens........this will be shown to you.

= You will begin to SEE JESUS, .. all over the bible........NT.. OT.... The verses will begin to show you, JESUS....., and before... you didnt see that, unless the verse was talking about Jesus.

THat's what will happen when a person begins to love the word of God....and "studies (the BIBLE) to show themselves approved unto God"...

I can see Jesus on almost every page of the OT! I remember when I started seeing it! I was like whoa, that's Jesus!

You know what else I learned right after that? That He was my Friend and I could ask Him stuff and He would do it for me! Little wonder why scripture says pray without ceasing! He's real, He's personal, He will speak to me and I hear it! A lot of people's problems I think is they let their circumstances dictate their behavior and not the word of God!

 

[DJT_47]

Let's not complicate the gospel. The eunuch was saved when he believed in Jesus Christ (compare with John 20:31) before he was water baptized. Water baptism is not a part of the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17; 15:1-4) or the remedy for sin.

Repentance is a change of mind and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:21) Two sides to the same coin. Those who have truly repented believe the gospel and those who believe the gospel have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to believe the gospel.

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. (Romans 10:8-10) The word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart TOGETHER. Believers confess that Jesus is Lord BY the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:3)

No one ever is or was saved just by believing. No scripture supports that or anything even close to that. "Let's not complicate the gospel" by trying to justify your preconceived notions and unscriptural biases, and simply believe what the scriptures clearly say. Go study some more with an open heart and mind and abandon your biases against baptism and it's absolute need for salvation.

Mk16:15-16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.