Define salvation. ( what is "the Gospel")

[MA2444]

This does not mean to try to keep from losing it, as heretics teach.
It means that now that you have it........you have to learn how to exist within it, according to the knowledge of God.
Most never will, and they remain a Hebrews 6:1 baby believer.

Ok, let's take a look at Hebrews 6:1
Hebrews 6:
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.../KJV

Whoops, I slipped and copied extra verses, may as well read them, right? Don't you see it? She is making herself ready. There are things which accompany salvation! Just do it, lol. Whos end shall be burned? Waitamiute weren't they already saved (OSAS)? so how can they burned? Ohh, He is God. And He isnt fond of the lukewarm!

So the Believer, after having received the Holy Spirit must walk in His shoes and make herself ready. Do you want to be the Bride or just a Believer? I dont think that all Christians will be taken in the rapture. Two in the field (same field, both believers!) one is taken, the other left! They still have a chance for salvation though but they will have to endure the great tribulation, they wont be the Bride of Christ but will receive salvation. So the Lord wants those who are zealous for Him and on fire for Him! And they are set aside as the Bride.

Or so it seems to me...

 

[MA2444]

The only thing that is perfected when we are born again, is that we are "made free from sin" and have become "The Righteousness of God... in Christ".


The Bride of Christ is already become "The Righteousness of God in Christ"..

So you're saying that everyone who gets saved is the Bride of Christ. Do she or does she not have to make herself ready?

I can see it the way you say it.

 

[MA2444]

Being born again, isnt a process, its a Birth in the Spirit.
Its instant.

This is true I guess but it is when we receive (the birth of the new spirit) it doesnt have anything to do with the baptism of the Spirit. This is the indwelling, snd there is more after this even. You have to pick up your cross daily and walk in it.

It's not instant, zap nothing else to do now!

 

[mailmandan]

Salvation is deliverance from sin and its consequences. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

 

[Lambano]

To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Trust the means of salvation, or trust the Savior Himself? The two are interrelated, but not interchangeable.

 

[MA2444]

Salvation is deliverance from sin and its consequences. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Exactly, this is after Christs death & Resurrection and in the new Covenant so now we must believe unto salvation! This is what Paul taught to the gentiles.

But all these Baptisms that come after salvation...are transitional. We get baptized into different things and become a wee bit more sanctified and purified. SO what do we do now? Oh, there's another baptism! And we transition from one to the next and each one has its purpose. So we go from glory to glory!

 

[Lambano]

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES..

See how we've subtly allowed the Pauline gospel to subjugate the Gospel of the Kingdom?

And we've made our own salvation, we've made ourselves, the sole objective of "the Gospel".

There's something going on here. I need to think about it for awhile.

 

[Behold]

Ok. After I had some more coffee I discovered that I do have some notes! So I'll try to explain my position.

People who teach a water baptism saves one has not divided the scriptures thoroughly enough.

Yes.
All heresy, is based on "wrongly dividing the word" because the person has not become proficient in Paul's Doctrine.
And if they are not born again, then that is just the worst case of all, as you have someone who isn't of God, trying to read the bible like its a dictionary, and then coming to a forum to try to TEACH the Bible.

Talk about selling confusion.....!! They have it mastered.

So, until the believer becomes a true student of Paul's doctrine, the NT will remain obtuse, confusing, and often incomprehensible.

45,000 worldwide Confused Christian denominations are the Proof.

2 Keys..

1.) When reading a NT verse.. always filter it through the Cross of Christ... in other words.. Does it make sense, according to What Jesus has CHANGED, by His Cross ?
So, if it wont fit.. then you dont try to make it fit......you just realize that its Jesus talking to the House of Israel.. and not to the Body of Christ.....for example.

I think I see the source of the confusion. In Acts 2:38 Peter clearly tals about being baptized in water for the remission of sins,

The way to perfectly understand what you are understanding. is... "If you dont know something, then you can't know it yet". or 'you can't teach it, if you have not learned it yet".

So, in Acts 2, Peter is preaching John the Baptist's message... to Israel.. = "repent and be water baptized".

Why did Peter do that?
Its because its all he knew....at that time.
See, Paul came LATER, with The Gospel.... and Peter learned it Later.......
In Acts 15, all the Apostle were on the same Page as Paul, and that is 15 yrs, after Jesus is back in Heaven.

They were transitioning to the new Covenant!

The entire Bible is a book of "Progressive Revelation"......its a Book of "being revealed".. what is going to happen, next.

The Cross of Christ, Birthed the NT Church, into "the time of the Gentiles"...... and Paul is the "Apostle to the Gentiles".. the only one.
So, HIS Gospel, is OUR Gospel, as we were born in the "Time of the Gentiles" that will end as the Trib begins.
The "Time of the Gentiles" does not proceed into the Trib., nor does Paul's Gospel., as its only for "the TIME.. of the Gentiles"... and that can be defined as "the Church age", of which the Tribulation period is not the Church age nor is it "the Time of the Gentiles".

7 Baptisms.

5. Believers Baptism! (After being saved!)

Yes.

The Eternal Salvation always precedes the Water.
As the reason you get dunked is because you have already become a CHRISTian.
You go into the water baptism AS a Christian.. not to become one., as Catholics Falsely Teach, and some other denominations.

I was water Baptized, 11 yrs after i was born again,..... and i was already seminary Trained, and was a part of the ministry team that was leading a Church, by then.

1 Peter 3:21
21 And that water is a picture of baptism.

A "shadow", a symbol..

Catholics see it as LITERAL, because their demonic bible teaches that Water causes you to be born again.

"Born again. .. .BY Water".... is JOHN 3, in a Douay Rheims, Catholic Bible, and that is a LIE.

So, when you talk to Catholics, or Catholic influenced denominations, then they are all about Water Baptism.

A few of them on this Forum will prove that to you, if you ask them..

"water water water".. its all about that WATER.. they will tell you.

He talking about the old water baptism compared to the new water baptism

John the Baptist was only water baptizing the House of Israel, as Jesus had not died and rose again, to create Christianity yet.

John the Baptist, died before Jesus was Crucified and rose again.

6. Holy Spirit Baptism. (After being saved)
Mark 1:8
8 I baptize you with[d] water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit!”.../KJV

There are a few spiritual baptisms.

The "Born again" baptism, is when the Holy Spirit baptizes you INTO Christ, by spiritual birth.

Another is.....Being anointed by the Holy Spirit, and being filled with the Holhy Spirit, which are the same thing., and that is not being born again.

= Being filled with the Spirit, or anointed with the Spirit, is ON YOU>.. its UPON YOU... its an empowering for Ministry.
Its a "CALL"... to be a : Pastor, Teacher, Apostle, Prophet, or Evangelist.

In the Old Testament.. this "on you" Spiritual filling was... "and the word of the Lord came to..."..
Or "Like a Dove came down and UPON">...
That was their anointing into God's service as a prophet, or a judge, or even a King, like David.

the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, Ghost..../KJV

Yes

See that "ON Him".. but not IN Him ???
That is the anointing of the Holy Spirit.. that came ON HIM>... as That is God empowering Jesus into the Ministry.
That's when it started.

Yet, God was IN Him, and said........ "in Him I AM Well Pleased"...

See that "I am".... ???

That is.. Moses asking the burning bush in the OT......."what is your name".. and God gave it... "I Am that i Am"..

That is Jesus saying..>>>"before Abraham was.......I AM"""

That is John 1.

(That's Jesus. So Jesus decides if you get baptized in the HS!)

Every one who is born again, has been spiritually baptized....... as that is what puts us "IN Christ".

7. Baptism by fire.
Matthew 3:10-11
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Well, that is not "tongues like as a fire, " that you read about in Acts 2:38

Your verse is symbolic.....its related to "i am the True Vine".. .. and all it means is... that those who are in Christ.. are the "branches" and those who are not, are "withered" and will be "burned".
That is a reference to .. John 3:36, and Rev 20:11.

And...."""I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:."""""""

= That is John the Baptist baptizing Jews, and talking about Jesus who is going to give us a different baptism, a Spiritual Baptism, that is to become Born again, by the Holy Spirit.

The "with Fire" is a (KJV) reference to the 2nd Advent that is 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 "In flaming FIRE.. taking Vengeance upon""...

also...

"God is A Spirit"
"Jesus is THAT Spirit".

Where is HE found?

1.) "Christ in you, the hope of Glory".. (Glory is Heaven)

2.) All the born again are become "The Temple OF the Holy Spirit".

 

[mailmandan]

Trust the means of salvation, or trust the Savior Himself? The two are interrelated, but not interchangeable.

By believing the gospel we are trusting in the means of salvation and the Savior Himself.

 

[mailmandan]

See how we've subtly allowed the Pauline gospel to subjugate the Gospel of the Kingdom?

And we've made our own salvation, we've made ourselves, the sole objective of "the Gospel".

There's something going on here. I need to think about it for awhile.

Do you see conflict between the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 4:23; 24:14) and the gospel that Paul preached which he received through a revelation of Jesus Christ? (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Galatians 1:11-12) Do you believe these are two different gospels?

 

[MA2444]

The Cross of Christ, Birthed the NT Church, into "the time of the Gentiles"...... and Paul is the "Apostle to the Gentiles".. the only one.
So, HIS Gospel, is OUR Gospel, as we were born in the "Time of the Gentiles" that will end as the Trib begins.
The "Time of the Gentiles" does not proceed into the Trib., nor does Paul's Gospel., as its only for "the TIME.. of the Gentiles"... and that can be defined as "the Church age", of which the Tribulation period is not the Church age nor is it "the Time of the Gentiles".

That's right, huh?! You just made me realize that the Holy Spirit probably is Not the Restrainer! The Restrainer is the church! We put Trump in office...and thereby have restrained evil to an extent. So it fits. God's work is being done thru believers. That's why after the rapture the tribulation will start so fast. Trump will be gone, we will be gone so there is nothing left on earth with which to restrain the evil from growing.

Now you cant even eat without joining the club so step forward and get your chip! The chip makes one non-redeemable because it changes your DNA.

And we'll be at a BBQ in heaven at the Marriage Supper of the lamb. I wouldn't want to be left behind!

 

[Lambano]

By believing the gospel we are trusting in the means of salvation and the Savior Himself.

I would think we should trust the Savior first. He could use any means He wants to save us.

Behind that is that there at least 6 or 7 models of how the Atonement works: Ransom, Satisfaction, Penal Substitution, Moral Influence, Christus Victor, Governmental, and some add Scapegoat. All are grounded in the Bible; all have problems. And the relevance of the Resurrection is questionable.

So, which means are we counting on to save us? Better just to trust Jesus first and foremost.

 

[Lambano]

Do you see conflict between the gospel of the kingdom ... and the gospel that Paul preached which he received through a revelation of Jesus Christ?

Look at them. Really look at them, not just superficially, but study them in detail. Take your time. Where do they overlap? Where does the Gospel of the Kingdom go beyond Paul's Gospel of Salvation?

 

[Behold]

Ok, let's take a look at Hebrews 6:1
Hebrews 6:
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Notice that Paul is defining the state, the diaper baby stage, of a immature christian.

What he is showing us, is that the carnal baby christian always stays stuck..... doing certain things.

worrying about water baptism
worrying about confessing sin. (repenting from dead works)..
worrying about losing salvation.

Notice Paul says.......there are first principles, of Christ, and we are to LEAVE THEM..

That means Grow up out of the simple minded, baby Christian stage...... where the baby Christian is worried about losing their salvation, and is worried about speaking in tongues.. and is worried about confessing sin.

All that is the "first principles of Christ".. the baby food stage and that is not even understood yet by them..... so that is why the baby Christian is worried about all of that stuff/.

Once they get some UNDERSTANDING, then they stop doing all that.....and most will never get the understanding, because they didnt do what Hebrews 13:9 tol them to do.. so they got trapped by a cult, and that is where their Christianity., and the Christian... became a deceived nothing, till the die, unless they can get out of their deception.
Not many will.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,

This is Hebrews.. so, all of this is speaking to Jews, who are resisting their Messiah.

That is Hebrews chapter 6 and 10.
Its explained in Act 28:28.

and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

The Heavenly gift, being given to those Jews, to "taste" so that they are made partakers..

That is 2 Things.

First, its the "sign of an Apostle".. who is preaching to them about their Messiah, they are "willfully sinning">. = Rejecting.
So, this Apostle, is showing these HEBREWS His SIGNS">.. because "Jews require a sign".. Paul teaches, and "Signs are for the JEWS" .. Paul teaches.
So, this Apostle is MANIFESTING in front of them.. His "signs of an Apostle" and they are just spitting... hating... refusing to believe, even when seeing HIS Heavenly Sign Gifts , that are the "Heavenly Gift' that he has.

Next....everyone whose inner eyes are opened to understand that Jesus is Messiah, their Savior, .. is being shown this by the Holy Spirit.

That is them.. "tasting the heavenly Gift"...for themselves.... And In the States, this is often preached as : "conviction of the Holy Spirit".

That is the unbelievers "tasting the heavenly Gift." who is the Holy Spirit.
/

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This is the apostle literally telling these HEBREWS, in the Book of HEBREWS... "listen, if you willingly sin the sin of unbelief, while knowing its true.(Rejecting their Messiah)..... then you are literally nailing JESUS back on the Cross, just as your Father's did it to Him Literally",, You're RE-Crucifying HIM.. with your WILLFUL, unbelief.

"you are committing the UNPARDONABLE SIN"... and therefore there is no more sacrifice for you, as JESUS is the ONLY SACRIFICE, and you are willfully rejecting HIM., you HEBREWS. (Jews).

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Again this is symbolic.

You have the True Vine who is Jesus and the real Branches who are the born again.

Then you have the unbelievers who are not "IN CHRIST".. they are not a part of the True vine... so, they will go to HELL...

"whose end is to be BURNED" = their Eternity after they die.

So the Believer, after having received the Holy Spirit must walk in His shoes and make herself ready. Do you want to be the Bride or just a Believer?

All born again Christians are the :

"Bride of Christ"
"The Body of Christ'
"The Temple of the Holy Spirit"
"The church."

 

[MA2444]

A few of them on this Forum will prove that to you, if you ask them..

"water water water".. its all about that WATER.. they will tell you.

And as a Christian who has been baptized doesnt it say in scripture wash yourselves in the water of the word. And that's for after being saved and baptized. We study His word to be approved and it teaches us that (while we are reading the word, the word is reading us) and we get Rhemas in verses that speak to us and either accuse us or affirm us!

But that's in the water of the word. It transforms us by the renewing of our minds in Christ.

 

[Bob Estey]

I had started another thread earlier and evidently there's not been too much of exposure to the two gospel Theory that seems to be taken hold in several Christian Ministries. But I came across a post where someone was declaring that the gospel is this or that. And so I have a question for the members here do you know what the gospel is? Do you understand what exactly salvation is?

I seem to remember being taught in my junior high church choir, that "gospel" means "good news." But I think generally most people think of "gospel" as meaning the first four books of the New Testament and the message therein.

Do I understand what salvation is? I think most think of "salvation" as not going to hell after they die. However, I think we can find ourselves in overwhelmingly bad circumstances here on earth, and salvation would refer to how the Lord can step into our lives and rescue us from those circumstances.

 

[MA2444]

Look at them. Really look at them, not just superficially, but study them in detail. Take your time. Where do they overlap? Where does the Gospel of the Kingdom go beyond Paul's Gospel of Salvation?

In Acts.

 

[mailmandan]

A good example of the gospel, the 'good news' and it's message, would be the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8.

Not only was Jesus preached, but obviously, although not overtly stated therein, was sin and the need to be baptized as a remedy. Look at verses 36 and 37 below

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Obviously, sin and the need of baptism was also preached as part of the "good news" message, as well as the need to verbally confess your belief, which is also consistent with Romans 10:9-10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Also, add in the need to repent to the above as the jews were told to do on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:38, and you have "the Gospel".

Read Acts 2:38-47 as well

Let's not complicate the gospel. The eunuch was saved when he believed in Jesus Christ (compare with John 20:31) before he was water baptized. Water baptism is not a part of the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17; 15:1-4) or the remedy for sin.

Repentance is a change of mind and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:21) Two sides to the same coin. Those who have truly repented believe the gospel and those who believe the gospel have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to believe the gospel.

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. (Romans 10:8-10) The word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart TOGETHER. Believers confess that Jesus is Lord BY the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:3)

 

[Behold]

That's right, huh?! You just made me realize that the Holy Spirit probably is Not the Restrainer!

Well, once the Body of Christ is Raptured, then "restraint" ends.

 

[Lambano]

In Acts.

Go on...