Is the Bible the word of God?

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JohnDB

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Have you seen the actual amount of information God has available to us by which we know EXACTLY how to not be in opposition and to be pleasing to God?

If you were to comprehend this volume your estimation of huge would probably be reduced to hardly anything.
Actually I am smart enough to know that the amount of information contained in the 66 books is more than I can ever know or remember.
My estimation of huge is an endless library with volumes the size of whole encyclopedia sets attributed to each naturally formed chapters and not the numbered chapters. (There is a lot of information that is not readily understood by flat reading and proper context is not something so easily understood today by many)

Scriptures are written in a very condensed manner and on several levels at the same time. A level of complexity that has yet to be reproduced by any author to this day. (And not for a lack of trying either)

Paper and ink were VERY expensive materials to where the Torah (5 books of Moses) usually cost a middle class yearly salary equivalent.
They were not cheap by any means.
 

JohnDB

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Give me access to the full array of truth found in the Truth, Jesus the Christ. For sooooo little truth which Jesus taught was ever recorded.
More than enough has been recorded that you obviously do not know. Why are you branching off from the scriptures when you do not know the truth they reveal yet?
 
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? Go "beyond What Is Written" or one is deceived??? = man's idea

God's Plain Command:

"And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and
to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think above

That Which Is Written,
{ Why? } that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."
(1 Corinthians 4:6 AV)​

hmmm...ALL The Rest Of God's Words Will Have To Wait Until ETERNITY, So That Then

we may start "learning Them!" eh?​
Amen.
 

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Yes you will.
But because you don't know scriptures you do not know who said it or where it can be found. And it's in the 66 you so readily dismiss.
I could refer to an earlier closed biblical canon which only had 11 scrolls/books. Or the many many others that had various numbers of books.

The bible or scriptures never provide any numbers that could confirm how many books it is made up of.
The other "books of the Bible" have never, will never, or are ever considered to be scripture.
Who made this determination? Many are confident that the individual or group of humans were carried along by the Holy Spirit when they made the decision on what was in and what should be left out. Also to make the definitive decision to set a closing date for the nominations for the scriptures and then after deliberating on what was presented, make the final decision.

This was undertaken and therefore we have the 73 book bible.

what was the process with your 66 book bible?

And then there are the 81-88 book bibles, refered to as the closed canons.
They are "along side" books used to help explain some references found in scripture.
Again, who determined what are "along side" books?
 

JohnDB

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I could refer to an earlier closed biblical canon which only had 11 scrolls/books. Or the many many others that had various numbers of books.

The bible or scriptures never provide any numbers that could confirm how many books it is made up of.

Who made this determination? Many are confident that the individual or group of humans were carried along by the Holy Spirit when they made the decision on what was in and what should be left out. Also to make the definitive decision to set a closing date for the nominations for the scriptures and then after deliberating on what was presented, make the final decision.

This was undertaken and therefore we have the 73 book bible.

what was the process with your 66 book bible?

And then there are the 81-88 book bibles, refered to as the closed canons.

Again, who determined what are "along side" books?
That would be a study worthy of attention.

Maybe you should. I have. And I'm unwilling to share my research with you. It took a lot of time.

But seek out Jewish sources (midrash, sifre, and Targums) and then Jerome's notes. They will tell you what you what you want to know.
 

One 2 question

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That would be a study worthy of attention.

Maybe you should. I have. And I'm unwilling to share my research with you. It took a lot of time.

But seek out Jewish sources (midrash, sifre, and Targums) and then Jerome's notes. They will tell you what you what you want to know.
That's fine if you don't want to share your findings.

Personally what bibles people decide to use makes no difference to me. As I don't use any of them these days.

The only source I intentionally access is Christ the Truth. Who at this moment has access to ALL TRUTH which is in His Father.

I love the fact that Christ's Spirit and my spirit are connected, one. That we are in constant communication with eachother. Yes, a never ending, constant uploading and downloading via our spirits.

And this is not of my doing but the miracle performed by Christ Himself when He died to cleanse me of all my sin, redeeming me to His Father by His blood. And then, having been reconciled to Father He put His Spirit in me so that we can become one, united, connected. I love this truth. I am so grateful for His mercy and grace towards me a former child of the devil.

Now being carried along by His Spirit because I am His child, I have full confidence that our spirits work in partnership together so I will and do of His good pleasure. Awesome!!!!

This, without the ongoing use of the bible.
 

JohnDB

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That's fine if you don't want to share your findings.
I point you directly to extra-biblical materials worthy of study and you reject it for the imagination in your head....you go on and on about what should we believe about scriptures or not....but you have placed your imagination in preeminence above all printed materials.

Which leaves the average person wondering why you are here? You ask the questions....good solid answers are given and you reject the answers and give preference to your imagination. Are you curious as to why we do not marvel at your relationship with God?

Spirit AND TRUTH! a blend....it is NOT all Spirit because that Spirit is in scriptures as well as truth.

Figure it out elroy....we do not worship the God of our imagination....but a consuming fire of righteousness....where yes, a forgotten dot on an "i" will easily destroy you and not even hiccup along the way.
 

One 2 question

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I point you directly to extra-biblical materials worthy of study and you reject it for the imagination in your head....you go on and on about what should we believe about scriptures or not....but you have placed your imagination in preeminence above all printed materials.

Which leaves the average person wondering why you are here? You ask the questions....good solid answers are given and you reject the answers and give preference to your imagination. Are you curious as to why we do not marvel at your relationship with God?

Spirit AND TRUTH! a blend....it is NOT all Spirit because that Spirit is in scriptures as well as truth.

Figure it out elroy....we do not worship the God of our imagination....but a consuming fire of righteousness....where yes, a forgotten dot on an "i" will easily destroy you and not even hiccup along the way.
Thanks for your reply. You do make some good points. A reduced or lack of emphasis on what is written in order to increase and emphasize what is not.

I guess I was observing the over emphasis of what was written (the scriptures) at the expense of the under emphasising the Spirit.

Maybe a healthy emphasis on both will serve to prevent a minimising or rejection of either or both.
 
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Behold

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Loosely speaking, yes.

Some people think the KJV is the word of God,

Many people who use the KJV, believe its the Bible.

I use a few versions, but i can tell you that every Major Evangelist, Preacher, Pastor, or Teacher, that was called of God to be so, since 1611....was called under the preaching and teaching of a KJV.

I can tell you that every major Revival in this World, since the KJV was created, started under the preaching and teaching of a KJV.

I can tell you that God's word is FREE... and its designed to be FREE......and the KJV is the only Bible in existence that can be FREELY PRINTED, by anyone anywhere, at anytime, ... and any amount.
You , me, Trump, Franklin Graham, Elon Musk, can print for free, as many KJV's as we want to print and never do we have to pay for that "royalty right"..

Try that with a fake bible like the NIV, and the company that owns the NIV copyright will SUE YOU, and take you to court to make you stop.

People who are not bible believers, and who do not recognize any BIBLE as their Final Authority, created a CULT that hates the KJV.
 

JohnDB

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Thanks for your reply. You do make some good points. A reduced or lack of emphasis on what is written in order to increase and emphasize what is not.

I guess I was observing the over emphasis of what was written (the scriptures) at the expense of the under emphasising the Spirit.

Maybe a healthy emphasis on both will serve to prevent a minimising or rejection of either or both.
I am NOT preaching legalism or rigidity in worship. The scriptures teach liberty over legalisms...very succinctly and clearly.

And the ONLY way to know about the liberty is to know the scriptures.

I don't need to know every false religion, theology, or false god to know what to avoid....I only need to know the truth and every phoney religion and theology is instantly exposed for what it is.

"Above all else the heart is the most deceitful"

It's an axiom out of scripture....along the lines of "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"

Meaning that we cannot rely solely or pre-emminantly upon ourselves to know what is right. Our hearts are deceitful. And the most abused book in world history is the Bible. Poor scriptural knowledge has been used as license to perform any number of atrocities and fool's errands.
Such as the guy in the 1800's who so believed he had the gift of tongues that he went to Egypt to preach....he barely made it back home alive because he couldn't communicate with anyone.

The Children's brigade where a young man lured a bunch of children, some ragamuffin and some living in good homes, on a journey to the ocean where God was going to part the waters....most died along the way. The few who survived the cold and didn't starve were taken in by the residents of Cologne.

The list of people who have been consumed by "Jerusalem Fever" is long and interesting....these otherwise "normal" people visiting Israel as tourists wrap themselves up in their hotel bed linen and no other clothes and preach on the streets in front of their hotels. The IDF is accustomed to dealing with them at this point. The Jews, Christians, and Muslims just shake their heads at them.

I much prefer (and I believe God does as well) to sticking to what we know to be true and WHY it's true. Yes, the Holy Spirit is important and God....but many mistake their imagination as the Holy Spirit or believe the Holy Spirit has told them to raise an army or some other nonsense. Crusades killed Christians as well as Muslims....

The list is long of "Spirit filled Christians" doing any number of ridiculous or atrocious activities.
 

JohnDB

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Many people who use the KJV, believe its the Bible.

I use a few versions, but i can tell you that every Major Evangelist, Preacher, Pastor, or Teacher, that was called of God to be so, since 1611....was called under the preaching and teaching of a KJV.

I can tell you that every major Revival in this World, since the KJV was created, started under the preaching and teaching of a KJV.

I can tell you that God's word is FREE... and its designed to be FREE......and the KJV is the only Bible in existence that can be FREELY PRINTED, by anyone anywhere, at anytime, ... and any amount.
You , me, Trump, Franklin Graham, Elon Musk, can print for free, as many KJV's as we want to print and never do we have to pay for that "royalty right"..

Try that with a fake bible like the NIV, and the company that owns the NIV copyright will SUE YOU, and take you to court to make you stop.

People who are not bible believers, and who do not recognize any BIBLE as their Final Authority, created a CULT that hates the KJV.
This is not true.

There are many translations of scriptures that are no longer under any sort of copyright protections for use and are considered "free use". The original NIV is coming up in roughly 30+ years to be "free use". 100 years of copyright is the limit.

You can use up to 500 verses of most translations and be free from copyright infringement...including the NIV's latest translation update. In fact most modern translations encourage the use in this fashion. They want their translation used in this manner as long as you are not denigrating their work.
 

Behold

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This is not true.

There are many translations of scriptures that are no longer under any sort of copyright protections for use and are considered "free use". The original NIV is coming up in roughly 30+ years to be "free use". 100 years of copyright is the limit.

Your obsession to hate the KJV is up and running again, @JohnDB


as of '2024

"""The NIV translation of the Bible is under copyright protection. The translation was first published in 1973, with copyright registered by the International Bible Society, which has since changed its name to Biblica. Subsequent updates have also been registered with the copyright office.""""


Get over your KJV hatred.
Find a real ministry.
 

Skovand

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First thing you have to determine what do you mean by the word of god and what are the preconceived concepts you associate with it. For many the word of god is synomous with the Bible. But some contention arises there for two reasons. The words of God existed as an oral tradition of stories before the ancient Jews and Canaanites developed a written language. Secondly, there has never been one Bible. There has always been several bibles and before they were even written down, there was already several different oral traditions. That’s why we have several different creation accounts in the Bible like Genesis 1,2,6 and Psalms 84. It’s why we have biblical seams sitting two contradictory stories side by side such as 1 Samuel 16 and 17.

We also see a third issue of places where the biblical authors were clearly borrowing literature and stories from other people and faiths. We can see the influence of the epic of Gilgamesh in the Torah and we see Hellenistic influences in the epistles.

We also have to wonder how did these words get here. The word inspired is not actually there but rather god breathed. We must interpret what is that in relationship to scripture. Was it the Holy Spirit hijacking some man placing him into a automatic writing like trance or was it more like a story the man wrestled with internally to express in a way that made sense to him at his time.

Do you presume it’s infallible? I don’t.
 

Augustin56

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Technically speaking, the Bible is not the Word of God. The Word of God is not a book. It is Jesus Christ, Himself. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John is speaking of Jesus Christ here.

The Catholic Church (Apostles and their successors) wrote the New Testament from Holy Tradition (Oral Tradition: 2 Thes 2:15). Jesus didn't write a book, He taught orally. They called Him "Rabbi" (Teacher). Most of the Apostles were illiterate.

A good question would be, why does the Protestant Old Testament have 7 fewer books than the Catholic Old Testament? There were actually two versions of the Old Testament floating around when the Bible was compiled into one book in the late fourth century. One was Hebrew and one was Greek. Before Jesus was incarnated, there was a large contingent of Jews living in Alexandria, Egypt, as merchants. Alexandria was a large port city on the Mediterranean Sea. The common language of the Mediterranean countries with regard to commerce and literature, at that time, was Greek. The Jews, being good merchants, worked there for generations and more or less begin forgetting their Hebrew. But, they knew Greek. So, they contacted Israel and asked for a copy of the existing Scriptures to be translated into Greek, which they did. After Jesus came, and rose to heaven, the Apostles and new Christians begin converting Jews to Christianity, using the Old Testament Scriptures. This, of course, upset the Jewish leaders, who then decided to create an official canon (list of books) for their Old Testament. They purposely left out seven books that had previously been there. So, we now had two versions of Scripture. In the late fourth century, the Catholic Church held three councils to determine which of the 300+ books, documents, letters, etc., that were in circulation were worthy of being considered Scripture. Of all of those, they came up with the 27 that almost everyone agrees are the books of the New Testament. They then chose the Greek version of the Old Testament. Bible scholars have studied both versions of the Old Testament and have determined that 80-85% of the direct and indirect references in the New Testament to the Old Testament point to the Greek version. Therefore, we can conclude that the Greek version was the one Jesus and the Apostles used most often.

Interesting side note about the Hebrew version of the Old Testament that most Protestant bibles use: The seven books that were left out covered the last 400 years before Christ's incarnation. So, if you believe that God purposely and arbitrarily didn't want those 400 years covered, then the Hebew version is for you. If you think that God was consistent in His revelation in the Old Testament and wanted all those years covered, then the Septuagint version is the one you want. That's the version the Catholic Church uses.
 
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Behold

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Technically speaking, the Bible is not the Word of God. The Word of God is not a book.

"Technically speaking " The Holy Bible, the NT and OT, is the "word" of God, and Jesus is the Word, of God.

If you understood this contrast and difference , you would not be proving that you as most "cult of mary" members, have no understanding of this significance.

The Bible is not the WORD as in John 1........its the "word".... as "the Bible".
 

amadeus

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Technically speaking, the Bible is not the Word of God. The Word of God is not a book. It is Jesus Christ, Himself. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John is speaking of Jesus Christ here.
Even so...!
... Jesus didn't write a book, He taught orally. They called Him "Rabbi" (Teacher). Most of the Apostles were illiterate.

...Interesting side note about the Hebrew version of the Old Testament that most Protestant bibles use: The seven books that were left out covered the last 400 years before Christ's incarnation. So, if you believe that God purposely and arbitrarily didn't want those 400 years covered, then the Hebew version is for you. If you think that God was consistent in His revelation in the Old Testament and wanted all those years covered, then the Septuagint version is the one you want. That's the version the Catholic Church uses.
Perhaps the most important thing in our reading and studying and our praying is that we are being led by the Holy Spirit... Are we all led along precisely the same pathway? There are those young in the Lord and those older. There are those with one calling and those with other callings. Let us not presume to know all about someone else when we do not know everything about ourselves.
 

Augustin56

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"Technically speaking " The Holy Bible, the NT and OT, is the "word" of God, and Jesus is the Word, of God.

If you understood this contrast and difference , you would not be proving that you as most "cult of mary" members, have no understanding of this significance.

The Bible is not the WORD as in John 1........its the "word".... as "the Bible".
I should have given more detail. My fault. The Bible is one of the two main expressions of the Word of God. The other being Holy Tradition (aka, Oral Tradition spoken of by St. Paul in 2 Thes 2:15). The Bible interpreted wrongly is not an expression of the Word of God.
 

Augustin56

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Even so...!

Perhaps the most important thing in our reading and studying and our praying is that we are being led by the Holy Spirit... Are we all led along precisely the same pathway? There are those young in the Lord and those older. There are those with one calling and those with other callings. Let us not presume to know all about someone else when we do not know everything about ourselves.
amadeus, that's in interesting thought. It is more a matter of God chasing us (He is often called the "hound of heaven") than us chasing Him. We all suffer from the effects of Original Sin, namely darkness of intellect and weakness of will.

But think about this for a minute... The Baptists claim that infant Baptism is invalid. The Lutherans (and others) claim it is valid. Both groups read the same Bible and both groups claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit. But they come up with contradictory conclusions about what the truth is. The Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Confusion or Contradiction. Where does the authority lie? Evidently not in the individual. I would offer that the authority is in the Church, which St. Paul refers to in 1 Tim 3:15 as the "pillar and foundation of truth." And the only Church St. Paul could possibly have been referring to is the Catholic Church, since it was the only Church for the first 1000 years of Christianity. The Orthodox splintered off in 1054 A.D., but retained Apostolic Succession. And Protestantism didn't begin until the 16th century and has exploded into literally tens of thousands of different-believing/contradicting denominations (and counting) ever since. Hardly the grounding of the fullness of truth Christ desired us to have.
 

amadeus

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amadeus, that's in interesting thought. It is more a matter of God chasing us (He is often called the "hound of heaven") than us chasing Him. We all suffer from the effects of Original Sin, namely darkness of intellect and weakness of will.
A matter perhaps of God chasing all of us... Who is it that turns around to seek His face? Who is it that is able to see His face?
But think about this for a minute... The Baptists claim that infant Baptism is invalid. The Lutherans (and others) claim it is valid. Both groups read the same Bible and both groups claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit. But they come up with contradictory conclusions about what the truth is.

2co 10:12For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
The Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Confusion or Contradiction. Where does the authority lie? Evidently not in the individual. I would offer that the authority is in the Church, which St. Paul refers to in 1 Tim 3:15 as the "pillar and foundation of truth."
The authority lies in the Holy Spirit. Is everyone who says he is, actually always being directed by the Holy Spirit?
And the only Church St. Paul could possibly have been referring to is the Catholic Church, since it was the only Church for the first 1000 years of Christianity. The Orthodox splintered off in 1054 A.D., but retained Apostolic Succession. And Protestantism didn't begin until the 16th century and has exploded into literally tens of thousands of different-believing/contradicting denominations (and counting) ever since. Hardly the grounding of the fullness of truth Christ desired us to have.
Is God not able to see the heart of a person where he is and direct that person who is willing to be directed?
Mt 5:6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
 

Behold

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I should have given more detail. My fault. The Bible is one of the two main expressions of the Word of God. The other being Holy Tradition (aka, Oral Tradition spoken of by St. Paul in 2 Thes 2:15). The Bible interpreted wrongly is not an expression of the Word of God.


Look again.

The BIBLE, such as a KJV, will state "W"ord..........See that upper case "W"?
That is JESUS the Word.

And when the bible is talking about the scriptures themselves, then that is the lower case "w"ord of God.

Jesus is the Word made flesh and the Bible is the word of God.