What sort of death did A&E die in the day they ate thereof?

[Lambano]

I posit that they died spiritually that day.

Define "spiritual death". Does that mean Adam and Eve no longer had spirits?

RIP, spirit. We're gonna miss you.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Did Adam even understand the consequence? What was death to Adam?

Do you think God would implement a penalty that Adam didn’t understand?

Absolutely.
The narrative bears this out as well.

What knowledge did Adam have of death? (no matter how it is defined)
- Had any other human died at that point?
- Had any animal died?
- Were there even dead leaves on the trees in the garden that needed to be removed?

Furthermore, what about the consequences that God CONCEALED from A&E?
Did Adam (A&E) understand the penalties that God implemented? Nope.
There were even penalties for the serpent.

--- PARODY ---

One day in the garden. (orchard)

God: On the day that you eat thereof, you will surely die.
Adam: Say what?
God: And you will be put out of the garden.
Adam: For eating from a tree?
God: The ground will produce thorns and thistles for you.
Adam: What's that?
God: By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food.
Adam: Not sure why any of this matters, I will be dead, right?
God: No. Basically, you will work yourself to death.
Adam: These consequences are spiraling out of control.
God: You don't know the half of it.
Adam: There's more?
God: There will be consequences for your wife too.
Adam: Who's that?
God: You will meet her soon. You will think she is awesome at first.
Adam: Awesome at first?
God: She will suffer greatly in childbirth.
Adam: Why?
God: Because she gave you fruit from the tree and you ate it.
Adam: Why would she do that?
God: She was deceived by the serpent.
Adam: Say what? I would never let that happen.
God: You'll stand by and watch, speechless.
Adam: Is that it?
God: No. Once you eat, you will be out of your mind.
Adam: Out of my mind?
God: You'll be sewing leaves together to cover your nakedness.
Adam: Nakedness? That's never been a problem before.
God: Needless to say, eating from the tree is a terrible idea.
Adam: Agreed. Let's get rid of it.
God: Time for your nap. I have someone I want you to meet.

[

 

[Brakelite]

St. SteVen said:
This is good. We have a range of understanding on this subject. I certainly don't agree with the idea of death being unconscious nonexistence.

I'm not sure what to call it, but there certainly are clues of an afterlife in the OT.

A search on the term "realm of the dead" finds 29 references in the NIV Bible.
Very interesting to read through what is found. One of the references is in Ecclesiastes 9 and two of them are in Acts chapter 2.

This says that mortals go down to the realm of the dead. A place for mortal souls to go.

Ezekiel 31:14 NIV
Therefore no other trees by the waters are ever to tower proudly on high, lifting their tops above the thick foliage.
No other trees so well-watered are ever to reach such a height; they are all destined for death, for the earth below,
among mortals who go down to the realm of the dead.

[

My suspicions of the NIV are now confirmed.

Death among the animals is part of the cycle of life that God gave them

Nonsense. You have absolutely no evidence to suggest such a thing. God, the life-giver, created creatures to die? A system of creation that relies on death in order to survive? Your church's divine plan of evolution and death is no less satanic than Darwin's weak excuse of an explanation for the beginning of life.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
I certainly don't agree with the idea of death being unconscious nonexistence.

Why not simply accept what scripture declares? Sleep.

You played the "God card" to end the discussion. Congratulations. I guess we are done?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
What do you call a soul that receives life at conception and lives on in the afterlife?

You have evidence for that of course right?

Pretty sure you are familiar with the "evidence".
Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it false.
Unless you are the arbiter of truth?

Where is heaven and hell?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

They wouldn't have died if they had kept on eating it. Their immortality was a potential (or conditional) immortality.

Where does this idea come from that A&E were eating from the Tree of Life?
Indications are they they were put out of the garden to PREVENT them from eating.

Genesis 3:22 NIV
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Indeed. Which means their very lives were contingent on their eating of the tree of life. Whatever their life was, it was conditional. So is ours. We are wholly dependant upon Jesus for life. We are not naturally immortal. Immortality is not innate to our existence. One day when Jesus comes, immortality will be bestowed upon us as a gift. A gift freely given to those who are living by the faith of Jesus and keeping His commandments. Adam and Eve lost that privilege when they disobeyed. It astonishes me that Christians think that they can get that privilege back whilst in a continuing state of disobedience. While eternal life is free, it doesn't come without conditions.

I can see that this topic is a magnet for JWs and Sabbatarians. (sigh)

[

 

[Brakelite]

We're not immortal by nature. If we live on without dying (as Adam would have done) or after physical death, it can only be as a result of God's input. "Eating the fruit of the tree of life" is a metaphor for that.

Yes - that was why God had to banish them from Eden.


They wouldn't have died if they had kept on eating it. Their immortality was a potential (or conditional) immortality.

That entire narrative declares categorically that there is no such thing as an immortal sinner. It's impossible. Even the righteous only receive it as a gift. Sinners living forever in hell? Despite presumed conditions that would normally kill them, therefore it must be God Who is intentionally keeping sinners alive for the sole purpose of tormenting them. It sickens me that Christians actually believe that such a god exists, let alone worthy of worship. Even worse, they call his name Jesus. That isn't the Jesus of the Bible, and it isn't the Jesus I know.

 

[St. SteVen]

Define "spiritual death". Does that mean Adam and Eve no longer had spirits?

RIP, spirit. We're gonna miss you.

That's a good question.

Here's one example. This verse speaks about crossing over from death to life.
It is talking about physical life and death, or something else?
Do believers in Jesus Christ suddenly defeat physical death?
Meaning, they will never die physically?

John 5:24 NIV
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged
but has crossed over from death to life.

[

 

[Brakelite]

I can see that this topic is a magnet for JWs and Sabbatarians. (sigh)

[

The state of the dead is one of the most misunderstood teachings of the Bible and that misunderstanding formed the basis for every pagan belief system on the planet. "Thou shalt not surely die".
The Sabbath, which I have mentioned on any of these threads to date, is equally misunderstood. Both doctrines, Sunday sacredness and spiritualism, will together form the root of the final apostasy manifested in the life and times of Babylon the Great. I know, you don't see that now. But you will. Soon.

 

[St. SteVen]

My suspicions of the NIV are now confirmed.

LOL

Add KJO to the list.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
I can see that this topic is a magnet for JWs and Sabbatarians. (sigh)

The state of the dead is one of the most misunderstood teachings of the Bible and that misunderstanding formed the basis for every pagan belief system on the planet. "Thou shalt not surely die".
The Sabbath, which I have mentioned on any of these threads to date, is equally misunderstood. Both doctrines, Sunday sacredness and spiritualism, will together form the root of the final apostasy manifested in the life and times of Babylon the Great. I know, you don't see that now. But you will. Soon.

My suspicions about topic participants are now confirmed. - LOL

Does the inclusion of the Sabbath prove that the Ten Commandments were for Israel alone?

- To whom were the Ten Commandments given? Deuteronomy 5:3-4 NIV It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. - To whom was the Sabbath...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Ritajanice]

John 5:24 NIV
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged
but has crossed over from death to life.

This to me means, that we are in the resurrected life of Jesus...we are Alive with him in spirit.

We have crossed from the death of the curse, into the Living tree...by becoming Born Of God’s seed. Imo.

The Living tree who feeds our spirit/soul / heart...is Jesus

Jesus responds to Martha in vs25-26 of John 1125“I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, 26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die..

We will never die in spirit, when we die, our bodies will be raised as spiritual ,glorified body, just like Jesus glorified body....Jesus has a glorified Spirit body.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44KJV It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

[Lambano]

It is talking about physical life and death, or something else?

What did he mean by killing and destroying the soul?

(I'm sure there a few folks around here who'll love the graphic.)

 

[St. SteVen]

Define "spiritual death". Does that mean Adam and Eve no longer had spirits?

Thanks.
This is a thought I need to fully develop here.
It always surprises me when readers draw a blank on this.

This passage below is rather wordy, but the thought is captured in the comparison of dead and alive.
Is this referring to physical life and death, or something else?

"...you were dead in your transgressions and sins, ...But... God... made us alive with Christ..."

You were dead, but God made you alive.
- Dead = ?
- Alive = ?

Is this referring to physical life and death, or spiritual life and death?

Ephesians 2:1-5 NIV
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air,
the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts.
Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—
it is by grace you have been saved.

[

 

[Lambano]

we are Alive with him in spirit.

I guess that's the flip-side of the question I asked @St. SteVen: What does "Alive in the spirit" mean?

 

[Ritajanice]

Answer: We should always be careful about adopting terminology that doesn't explicitly appear in the Bible. Sometimes it can be helpful. At other times, it can be misleading. In this case, you're right that the term “spiritual death” doesn't appear in the Bible.

 

[Lambano]

You were dead, but God made you alive.
- Dead = ?
- Alive = ?

He's using physical life and physical death as a metaphor for something else, but what?

 

[Ritajanice]

I guess that's the flip-side of the question I asked @St. SteVen: What does "Alive in the spirit" mean?

Only the Holy Spirit can answer your question..

I came Alive in the Spirit by divine, heart, revelation.

The Spirit witnesses with “ our spirit” that we are Gods children.Born Again/ Spirit gives birth to spirit.

The Holy Spirit is Gods Witness, witnessing to my spirit 24/7 that I am Gods child, he never stops witnessing that truth to my spirit, been doing that for 33 years and counting.

 

[RedFan]

I guess that's the flip-side of the question I asked @St. SteVen: What does "Alive in the spirit" mean?

As contrasted with "dead in the flesh." (Although one can be both simultaneously.)