How is the Woman saved through childbirth?

[face2face]

You posted about being saved in childbirth and I answered it!

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

this verse simply says if a woman is godly- she will be kept safe during childbirth- no more, no less.

Interesting you placed a condition on salvation - well done Ronald!

But no Ronald, Paul is not speaking about a woman being kept safe during child birth (the act) because she is godly.

F2F

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Interesting you placed a condition on salvation - well done Ronald!

But no Ronald, Paul is not speaking about a woman being kept safe during child birth (the act) because she is godly.

F2F

did not place a condition on salvation! I explained that earlier. And as for verse 15- He is! If a woman is godly she will be kept safe while she is delivering a child, just like it says. No secret meanings or hidden revelations. god is practical too! Childbeaqring was a great cause of death in women. God provided protection (sozo to be kept safe) for His daughters while they were giving birth.

Stop trying to read more intro Scripture than what is there.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If I were a women and I'm not, but if I were Proverbs 31 would be very high on my list of Scriptures that teach a women how she can be saved:

View attachment 51545

I wouldn’t exclude it because you are a man.

 

[face2face]

did not place a condition on salvation! I explained that earlier. And as for verse 15- He is! If a woman is godly she will be kept safe while she is delivering a child, just like it says. No secret meanings or hidden revelations. god is practical too! Childbeaqring was a great cause of death in women. God provided protection (sozo to be kept safe) for His daughters while they were giving birth.

Stop trying to read more intro Scripture than what is there.

Ronald, you seem agitated; is all well with you today?

"If a woman is godly she will be kept safe while she is delivering a child"

Rachel died while giving birth to the son. Before dying, she named the boy Benoni. But Jacob called him Benjamin.

Was Rachel ungodly not receiving this protection from God that you speak of?

F2F

 

[face2face]

I wouldn’t exclude it because you are a man.

I love that chapter - its a favorite of mine as I've been on the receiving end of godly women my entire life!
Paul understood their power and influence!
F2F

 

[FaithWillDo]

Thank you for sharing.

Dear VictoryinJesus,
You said:
This explains the below. Of submitting to please these elemental spirits who have no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh…having an appearance of wisdom(but this wisdom is from below and devilish) promoting self-made religion.

I agree. The spirit of the world is the spirit of anti-Christ. It teaches "babes" (Early Rain only, unconverted) to mix works with faith. This is the crooked way and is why Satan is called the crooked serpent. This is the false gospel that that apostate believers follow and teach.

You said:
Consider the above. He who is married to the spirit of the world …cares for the things of the world…yes how he may please his wife.
^which flesh can and will never be pleased. You can not please self- made religion. You can not please human precepts and teachings. They themselves are in the bondage of sin.

Likewise
1 Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married cares for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

This verse is in reference to the marriage analogy used in scripture.

A virgin is a "babe" who has only been given the Early Rain of the Spirit. She remains unconverted and is waiting to marry Christ when He returns to her. When Christ returns, He will pour out the Latter Rain and the marriage will take place. The virgin will then be the bride (wife) of Christ and will be converted. During Paul's lifetime, the virgins in the church were remaining faithful while they waited for Christ to return. This is what Paul was referencing in the verse below:

2Cor 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

However, shortly after Paul's death, the spirit of anti-Christ came into the world and devoured the virgins (babes) in the churches. After a virgin has been indwelt with the spirit of anti-Christ, she becomes married to Satan and will care for the things of this world - the things that are pleasing to her husband (Satan).

Most of the church (the "many") will remain in this apostate condition until they die. They will continue to follow the ways of Satan which includes following Satan's false gospel of mixing works with faith. For the "few" unfaithful virgins who have been chosen, Christ will come to them a second time and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, the unfaithful virgin will be restored. Christ will then appear to her and the marriage will take place. Judgment will then fall on the believer. This judgment will remove and destroy the spirit of anti-Christ (cast into the Lake of Fire).

You said:
So how does Christ restore His marriage relationship with mankind?

Romans 7:3-4 KSo then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. [4] Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. (Notice in the parable of the sower, seed, and ground…caring for the things of the world, pleasing man-made religion for men’s praise…it does nothing, it chokes and is unfruitful.

The marriage analogy, which I briefly explained above, teaches the pathway to salvation. Salvation occurs when a believer has both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, followed by judgment. This is also called conversion. After a person is converted, they become the bride (wife) of Christ. This is how Christ is now restoring the marriage relationship with mankind - the one that Adam and Eve lost in the Garden of Eden when they fornicated with Satan (believing Satan over Christ).

This scripture below applies to the marriage analogy:

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. 6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. 7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

The "great mercies" are shown to mankind by the New Covenant of Grace through Faith.

Also, the story of the woman taken in adultery in John 8:3-10 is based on the marriage analogy.

The woman represents mankind who has fornicated with Satan. She was caught in adultery. To restore the marriage relationship, Christ writes in the earth (writes the law of the spirit in the woman). The first time He writes in the earth represents the Early Rain of the Spirit. The second time Christ writes in the earth represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit. After the woman has received both the Early and Latter Rain, she is no longer condemned by the law. The Pharisees then drop the stones and leave because the law can no longer accuse her. The woman is now converted and restored to her former husband (Christ).

Joe

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ronald, you seem agitated; is all well with you today?

"If a woman is godly she will be kept safe while she is delivering a child"

Rachel died while giving birth to the son. Before dying, she named the boy Benoni. But Jacob called him Benjamin.

Was Rachel ungodly not receiving this protection from God that you speak of?

F2F

Well as Paul speaking for God had yet to give this promise- you are forcing unreasonable expectations. It was a promise going forward not backward.

That would be like saying if an OT saint did not believe in the death and physical resurrection Of Jesus they could not be saved!

I am fine and calm as a cucumber. How about you?

 

[doctrox]

did not place a condition on salvation! I explained that earlier. And as for verse 15- He is! If a woman is godly she will be kept safe while she is delivering a child, just like it says. No secret meanings or hidden revelations. god is practical too! Childbeaqring was a great cause of death in women. God provided protection (sozo to be kept safe) for His daughters while they were giving birth.

For context and clarity purposes, I just had an easy read of all 110 appearances of the word sōzō here --> G4982 - sōzō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

Again, this would confirm Ronald and Occam's razor.

 

[face2face]

Well as Paul speaking for God had yet to give this promise- you are forcing unreasonable expectations. It was a promise going forward not backward.

Paul is drawing on Genesis 3 and laying a foundation on how the Women should behave in the House of God - if you don't understand the context simply ask!

That would be like saying if an OT saint did not believe in the death and physical resurrection Of Jesus they could not be saved!

You are on your own with this comment - maybe you need to explain yourself more clearly!

But they did believe!

I am fine and calm as a cucumber. How about you?

Well, lets receive that cool refreshing taste of a cucumber!

F2F

 

[face2face]

So I want younger women to marry, raise children, and manage a household, in order to give the adversary (sins flesh) no opportunity to vilify us
1 Ti 5:13–14.

Paul is giving the same teaching here but in a more direct way.

Again Proverbs 31 applies
Again how women are to behave in the house of God

F2F

 

[face2face]

But for notwithstanding, A.V. through the child-bearing for in childbearing, A.V. love for charity, A.V. sanctification for holiness, A.V. She shall be saved; i.e. the woman generically.

The transition from the personal Eve to the generic woman is further marked by the transition from the singular to the plural, “if they continue,” etc. The natural and simple explanation of the passage is that the special temporal punishment pronounced against the woman, immediately after her sin, “In sorrow shalt thou bring forth children” (Gen. 3:16)—(to which St. Paul here evidently alludes)—and endured by all women ever since, was a set-off, so to speak, to the special guilt of Eve in yielding to the guile of the serpent; so that now the woman might attain salvation as well as the man (although she was not suffered to teach) if she continued in faith and charity

H. D. M. Spence-Jones, ed. 1 Timothy, The Pulpit Commentary (London; New York: Funk & Wagnalls Company, 1909), 36.

@Ronald Nolette try entering the Context of the section and this will lead you to the foundation principles on Paul's mind.

F2F

 

[Taken]

How is the Woman saved through childbirth?

There is a caveat in the text…”If” which aptly applies to the woman’s curse was pain OF childbearing….and the caveat….”IF” as the mother…she remains faithful and helpfully participating in raising the child “according” to Gods order and way.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[face2face]

How is the Woman saved through childbirth?

There is a caveat in the text…”If” which aptly applies to the woman’s curse was pain OF childbearing….and the caveat….”IF” as the mother…she remains faithful and helpfully participating in raising the child “according” to Gods order and way.

Glory to God,
Taken

Wow is that a first?
We agree on something!

 

[face2face]

Imagine saying to a husband who lost his wife through giving birth, she was an ungodly women who didnt have/deserve God's protection.

What an evil and wicked thing to say!

The same goes for suicide! Let God be judge of all things...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You said:
Consider the above. He who is married to the spirit of the world …cares for the things of the world…yes how he may please his wife.
^which flesh can and will never be pleased. You can not please self- made religion. You can not please human precepts and teachings. They themselves are in the bondage of sin.

Likewise
1 Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married cares for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

This verse is in reference to the marriage analogy used in scripture.

A virgin is a "babe" who has only been given the Early Rain of the Spirit. She remains unconverted and is waiting to marry Christ when He returns to her. When Christ returns, He will pour out the Latter Rain and the marriage will take place. The virgin will then be the bride (wife) of Christ and will be converted. During Paul's lifetime, the virgins in the church were remaining faithful while they waited for Christ to return. This is what Paul was referencing in the verse below:

I’m going to have to think about what you said in your whole reply back. It’s confusing. Concerning the wife and the virgin. I thought it was the opposite of what you said. For it’s the married wife who cares for the things of the world. the unmarried woman cares for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit:

not the same “married” as the marriage of the Lamb spoken of in Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

But I thought it’s the Chaste Virgin —the unmarried woman(pronounced clean) whose husband is dead (by the body of Christ), presented to Christ, being free to be joined to another, even Him who raised from the dead.

I’m going to have to think about what you shared.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

How is the Woman saved through childbirth?

There is a caveat in the text…”If” which aptly applies to the woman’s curse was pain OF childbearing….and the caveat….”IF” as the mother…she remains faithful and helpfully participating in raising the child “according” to Gods order and way.

Glory to God,
Taken

I failed.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Imagine saying to a husband who lost his wife through giving birth, she was an ungodly women who didnt have/deserve God's protection.

No kidding…

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I love that chapter - its a favorite of mine as I've been on the receiving end of godly women my entire life!
Paul understood their power and influence!
F2F

@Wrangler laughs when I say this but men are included in the Proverbs 31, as they are included in the woman saved by childbearing (through the body of Christ) to bring forth Fruit unto God.

Brethren, It is God Will that you bear fruit.


Galatians 4:26-27 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. [27] For it is written, Rejoice, you barren that bear not; break forth and cry, you that travail not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

 

[face2face]

@Wrangler laughs when I say this but men are included in the Proverbs 31, as they are included in the woman saved by childbearing (through the body of Christ) to bring forth Fruit unto God.

Brethren, It is God Will that you bear fruit.


Galatians 4:26-27 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. [27] For it is written, Rejoice, you barren that bear not; break forth and cry, you that travail not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

The allegory is so powerful it cannot be ignored!

 

[FaithWillDo]

I’m going to have to think about what you said in your whole reply back. It’s confusing. Concerning the wife and the virgin. I thought it was the opposite of what you said. For it’s the married wife who cares for the things of the world. the unmarried woman cares for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit:

not the same “married” as the marriage of the Lamb spoken of in Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

But I thought it’s the Chaste Virgin —the unmarried woman(pronounced clean) whose husband is dead (by the body of Christ), presented to Christ, being free to be joined to another, even Him who raised from the dead.

I’m going to have to think about what you shared.

Dear VictoryinJesus,
I am a little confused by your comments, especially this one: But I thought it’s the Chaste Virgin —the unmarried woman(pronounced clean) whose husband is dead (by the body of Christ), presented to Christ, being free to be joined to another, even Him who raised from the dead.

I'll try to explain it again in a shorter and more direct way.

One important point before I start: Christ must come to a person TWO times to make His future wife acceptable to Him (a chaste virgin) so that the marriage can occur. If you can't accept this point, the marriage analogy will not make sense.

The marriage analogy begins with Adam and Eve when they were married to Christ in the Garden. But because Adam and Eve were carnally minded, they fell for Satan's deceptions and believed him over what Christ had told them. This resulted in them spiritually fornicating with Satan and sinning. Since the sin of adultery is the only legal grounds for divorce, Christ divorced Adam & Eve and cast them out of His home (the Garden of Eden).

To restore the marriage, Christ will come to a person and give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This small amount of the Spirit will make the person into a "chaste virgin" who is suitable for marriage. But while the chaste virgin waits for the Bridegroom to return for the marriage, she remains carnally minded, spiritually blind and sinful. In this condition, Satan will plant the spirit of anti-Christ within the virgin and deceive her. Since the virgin is spiritually blind, Satan has no trouble causing the virgin to start following his ways instead of the ways of Christ - same as he did with Adam and Eve. With the spirit of anti-Christ indwelling the person, Satan becomes the virgin's husband who she wants to please. This is what Paul is stating below:

1Cor 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

If the unfaithful virgin is one of the Elect, Christ will come to her a second time and give her the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This will kill her husband (Satan) and make her into a chaste virgin again. She has now made herself ready for the marriage to commence:

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

This time the Holy Spirit is given in great measure and comes in strength. It will also heal the virgin's spiritual blindness so that she can receive the truth of Christ (Mark 8:15-25). Christ will then be able to feed His new bride His bread and New Wine. This event is called the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. From the knowledge of the truth the new bride receives, judgment will fall on the wife and remove the chaff from within her. The chaff is everything that has made her carnally minded and sinful. This includes the spirit of anti-Christ and the person's carnal spirit (called the Great harlot). After they are both removed and destroyed, Christ's new bride will be "converted" and empowered by the Holy Spirit to remain faithful to Christ - unlike the time when Adam and Eve were not able to remain faithful.

Joe