How is the Woman saved through childbirth?

[VictoryinJesus]

when Paul says there is a warring in “My members” does Paul mean his literal body, or within the body of Christ (Many members, One Body) among brothers against brothers? “My Members” has differing meanings as well. Considering the warring among brothers within the body taking others captive to the bondage of sin, I think Paul was speaking on the “My members” being lead captive unto the bondage of sin were his brothers(My members).

James 4:1-3 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [2] You lust, and have not: you kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: you fight and war, yet you have not, because you ask not. [3] You ask, and receive not, because you ask amiss, that you may consume it upon your lusts.

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

That it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body. 1 Corinthians 12:18-26 But now has God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. [19] And if they were all one member, where were the body? [20] But now are they many members, yet but one body. [21] And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. [22] Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: [23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. [24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: [25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. [26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.


Philippians 3:18-21 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: [19] Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) [20] For our conversation is in heaven; from where also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ(Hebrews 5:7-9 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; [8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; [9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
…also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ…
: [21] Who shall change our vile body, (the bondwoman in servitude to earthly Jerusalem?) that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body(the freewoman, New Jerusalem, where there is no more bond or free…), according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I just thought of something that helps.
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Consider all you’ve shared concerning Paul and what Paul is saying here in …warring against Christ (the law of my mind), and bringing me into the captivity (of the bondwoman) to the law of sin which is in my members …and how Paul kept saying “We are of the Freewoman”
*when Paul says there is a warring in “My members” does Paul mean his literal body, or within the body of Christ (Many members, One Body) among brothers against brothers? “My Members” has differing meanings as well. Considering the warring among brothers within the body taking others captive to the bondage of sin, I think Paul was speaking on the “My members” being lead captive unto the bondage of sin were his brothers(My members). —Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: [5] To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

2 Peter 2:19-20 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. [20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. <I do realize you have been speaking on the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Dear VictoryinJesus,
I believe that when Gal 4:25 is translated as saying "corresponds" rather than "answers to", the problem I saw goes away. This change also agrees what Paul said later about the New Jerusalem being the freewoman.

So just as Paul said, the bondwoman & earthly Jerusalem are synonymous terms, just as the freewoman and the New Jerusalem are synonymous terms. Both produce children.

As for what Paul says in Romans 7:23, he is talking about man's carnal spirit that wars against the "law of my mind". In verse 24, Paul asks who can deliver us from this sin problem. In verse 25, Paul gives us the answer: Jesus Christ.

After Christ converts a person into a child of God, the warring ends and the person is at peace.

Psa 29:11 The LORD will give strength (the Holy Spirit) unto his people; the LORD will bless his people with peace.

This is when a believer also enters into the "rest" of Christ. This is the spiritual fulfillment of the physical Sabbath Day Law.

Also from our discussion, I am now seeing something else differently on what happens during the conversion process. I now believe that when a person is converted, their carnal spirit (Great Harlot/bondwoman and other names) is removed and destroyed and not just transformed. The carnal mind of man is transformed but the carnal spirit is destroyed and replaced by the Holy Spirit.

Here's my reasoning: The issue with mankind's spirit is that it is "weak". In this weak condition, man's spirit allows the flesh to control it, whereby making man's spirit "carnal". Before our discussion, I used to believe that it was only the "carnality" of our spirit that was removed and destroyed during the conversion process. But I don't believe that anymore. I believe now that when a person is converted, their carnal spirit is fully destroyed and replaced with the Holy Spirit.

The reason I used to believe as I did was because I thought that our "individual identity" was contained in both our spirit and our mind. But after studying the New Jerusalem during our discussion, I now believe I was wrong. I believe that a person's self identity is only contained in the mind. The "spirit" is what governs the mind but does not contain a person's self consciousness (identity).

All the scriptures which teach about the New Jerusalem can only be understood properly when the New Jerusalem is understood representing the Holy Spirit/Christ. It is within the walls of New Jerusalem that the converted Elect dwell. Once a person is converted, the new spirit which governs their mind (individual consciousness) is the Holy Spirit.

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

A little more on this: After a person receives the Early Rain of the Spirit, a spiritual war develops between the carnal spirit of the person and the Holy Spirit. But since the Early Rain of the Spirit (given in measure) does not heal a person's spiritual blindness, the Early Rain of the Spirit cannot win the war and destroy the carnal spirit of the person. Why? Because "truth" (Sword/Word of God) is the weapon that Christ uses in this war. Since the believer is not able to understand the truth, the Early Rain of the Spirit cannot win the war and convert the person. Then, to make matters worse for the new believer (a babe in Christ), Satan plants is seed (lies/deceptions) within the believer and waters it with the spirit of anti-Christ. The spirit of anti-Christ then makes the carnal spirit 'worse than the first" which also makes the believer's carnal mind "worse than the first". This is when a "babe" becomes an apostate believer (a man of sin).

When the Latter Rain of the Spirit is given to the apostate believer, it will come with strength and power. It will heal the believer's spiritual blindness so that the believer can come out of Satan's deceptions and receive Christ's nourishment of truth. With this truth, the "worse than the first" carnal spirit/man of sin will be destroyed by the brightness of Christ's appearing (Christ/Light is truth).

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Anyway, I am going to make that change in my teachings on my website. I will also be changing my teaching on the birthing analogy to include the New Jerusalem "as the mother of us all".

I really appreciate this discussion that we've had. It has helped to remove some error in my understanding.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

It is confusing to me too. How can it not be! Consider:

Genesis 3:16 …your desire will be to your husband, and he shall rule over you.
And, Genesis 4:6-7 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why are you wroth? and why is your countenance fallen? [7] If you do well, shalt you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And unto you will be his desire, and you will rule over him.
^Maybe you will see something that helps in the above. I keep thinking about those verses with our discussion, but at this point I don’t know why. You said, “how can the bondwoman answer to earthly Jerusalem if they are one and the same?” I do see this with husband and wife being of one body…and I think there is something there in Cain and Abel too.

Let’s keep going…

(Paraphrasing off memory) A new commandment I give unto you, no not a new command I give unto you but the commandment you had from the beginning. But we know the law is spiritual, but I am carnal sold under sin.
^still considering …how can the bondwoman answer to the earthly Jerusalem if they are one in the same? One and the same “carnal sold under sin.”: sin unto death. As in one man…

How can the freewoman answer or be in servitude to New Jerusalem is they are in the same? “obedience unto Righteousness”: Life. As in one Man…

One last thought is:
How the bond woman answer or be in servitude unto “sin unto death”; same as earthly Jerusalem? This appears apparent in how much Paul urged them, saying “why do you desire to go into bondage again?” There is a constant spiritual battle of those being pulled back in by men who want them to answer or be in servitude unto men, and not in service unto God. See…those are of the same body. Within the body of earthly Jerusalem of slaves and masters, but the bondwoman in service to pleasing the flesh and men’s man-made doctrines of earthly Jerusalem, all are under sin unto death, being one of the same. Both the bondwoman and earthly Jerusalem in servitude unto sin unto death. Paul warned they have no liberty themselves but promise you Liberty, Liberty they do not know.

Reminds me of: the bondwoman “Answers or is in servitude” to men who have an infirmity, not able to continue by reason of death.

Where the Freewoman answers and is in servitude of “obedience unto righteousness” which is through Christ. If you take away at least one thing from these points let it be how the bondwoman can answer and be in service to earthly Jerusalem and at the same time be one in the same. As much as those she answers to and is servitude to, they themselves are after the flesh making them also of the bondwoman. Where those having others in servitude unto them and those in servitude unto them, being of the same body; the bondwoman desire to please men, and not God.





One body.

Makes me think of
Jeremiah 5:26-31 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that set snares; they set a trap, they catch men. [27] As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. [28] They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge. [29] Shall I not visit for these things? says the LORD(Jesus Christ told them they should have known this, the time of His visitation, saying “woe unto you, you hypocrites” : shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this? [30] A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; [31] The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: (consider the desire of the bondwoman, and you desire (love to have it so) that the priest—having infirmity not able to continue by reason of death—bear rule by their own means) and what will you do in the end thereof? (When those priest who bear rule over you, are they themselves not able to continue by reason of death?)

Love: The spiritual Jerusalem then has to be the new spirit that is governed by the Holy Spirit.

I love the Proverbs and think of the “wisdom” (this wisdom being devilish) handed down by men. And the “Wisdom” which comes from God—this “Wisdom” that comes from God has the nature of the Fruit of Spirit …first peaceable… Also this “Wisdom” governs, Proverbs 31 speaks of the Woman which has the law of kindness on her tongue, who can find a good wife? Christ? I don’t try to make it too complicated, it is beautiful really. Christ ruling…the Freewoman obedience unto His Governing Spirit (Government) and this shared agreement “Wisdom” like in Proverbs where the Woman honours her husband(the law of kindness on her tongue) and in her, her husbands heart does trust. which all comes from God and is far different governing than that of earthly Jerusalem. Maybe I mixed that up, but to me what matters is how the heavenly Jerusalem where Christ governs, is Hope filled.







No I don’t see any conflicts except I’m still not sure Jesus Christ is the Son or the Father. Only because He always pointed to the Father. And His Father to the Son. If I had one of those brain-exploding emoji’s right now, I would use it. I try not to say for certain on the topic of Father and Son because I don’t know. All I know is they are in agreement as One. That is enough for me right now.

Dear VictoryinJesus,
You also said:
No I don’t see any conflicts except I’m still not sure Jesus Christ is the Son or the Father. Only because He always pointed to the Father. And His Father to the Son. If I had one of those brain-exploding emoji’s right now, I would use it.

I'm not sure if you believe in the Doctrine of the Trinity or not, but it might be causing you some confusion here.

I do not believe the Doctrine of the Trinity is true, nor do I believe that any of the doctrines taught by the apostate church are true.

Here is my understanding - maybe it will help remove some of your confusion.

God the Father is the one supreme God from which everything comes into existence. For that reason, Jesus Christ is called the "Son" of God. At some point before this creation began, God the Father created Jesus as His son. And then later, Jesus' Father blessed Jesus by making Him to be mankind's God, Creator and Savior.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Everything about this creation is about Christ. He is the first and the last. And because Christ created mankind, it is correct to say that Jesus is mankind's God and Father. But at the same time, we must understand that Jesus also has a God and Father.

These verses apply:

1Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

The creation event is how God the Father produces His offspring. Through this birthing process, all mankind will be born as children of god. The birth occurs when God the Father's Spirit indwells a person just as it indwells Jesus Christ making Jesus God's son. The spiritual process that causes the birth of a new child of God is called conversion.

It is God the Father's Spirit that makes God and Christ "one". And it is this same Spirit that will make all mankind "one" with God the Father and Christ.

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

By the end of the final age, God the Father (through Jesus Christ) will have a much larger family.

I hope this helps.

Joe