How is the Woman saved through childbirth?

[VictoryinJesus]

That's a great question for another thread. Please start another thread.

1 Timothy 2:11-15 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. [12] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. [13] For Adam was formed first, then Eve; [14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. [15] Yet she will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

how is the woman saved through childbearing?

 

[FaithWillDo]

1 Timothy 2:11-15 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. [12] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. [13] For Adam was formed first, then Eve; [14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. [15] Yet she will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

how is the woman saved through childbearing?

Dear VictoryinJesus,

I believe I have tried to explain this analogy to you before. I will try again. I know it is a difficult subject.

To understand what Paul says in 1Tim 2:11-15, a person must have a spiritual understanding of scripture.

To understand why the woman is saved during child birth, we must start with what scripture teaches about mankind's spiritual makeup.

Mankind's spiritual makeup is this:

MIND + SPIRIT = A LIVING SOUL

Because mankind's spirit is "marred" (Jer 18:4) and "subject to vanity" (Rom 8:20), it became carnal. In turn, the carnal spirit made the mind of mankind carnal, as well. Because mankind has a carnal mind, mankind frequently sins.

Now the formula looks like this:

CARNAL MIND + CARNAL SPIRIT = A SPIRITUALLY DEAD SOUL

So how does the "woman" relate to mankind's spiritual makeup?

Here how:

Adam and Eve are "types" for mankind's spiritual makeup. Adam (the man/husband) represents the head/mind and Eve (the woman/wife) represents the carnal spirit.

Along these same lines, the spirit word "bone" also represents the spirit of a person just as Eve does. For that reason, scripture shows that Eve was created from one of Adam's ribs (bone).

And because the spirit word "bone" represents a person's spirit, scripture says this about Christ's bones:

John 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

Since Christ was spiritually perfect, Christ's spirit (bone) never become carnal and sinful (broken). As a result, none of Christ bones were broken.

So why was Eve the one who Satan tempted and deceived?

It was because Satan tempts mankind through the carnal nature of mankind's spirit (Eve). And since the spirit (also called the "heart") is what governs the mind, the mind will do what the carnal spirit desires.

This is why Paul says this:

1Cor 7:33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

And why Paul says this:

1Tim 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman (carnal spirit/heart) being deceived was in the transgression (guilty of sin).

The verse above is a very profound statement when it is properly understood. It is mankind's carnal spirit that is guilty of sin and that is why mankind's carnal spirit will suffer the penalty of sin (death).

This takes us to the spirit word "harlot".

Remember, in the "type", Adam and Eve represent one flesh. From the beginning, this "one flesh" (Adam/Eve) was spiritually married to Christ. But when Adam/Eve sinned and tried to cover their sin by their own "works" (apron of fig leaves), Eve (the carnal spirit of the one flesh) became an adulteress/harlot.

Because of Eve's spiritual fornication with Satan (believing Satan over Christ), Christ divorced Adam/Eve and the marriage relationship ended. Christ then cast Adam/Eve out of His house (the Garden of Eden). Since that day, Christ has been working to restore His marriage relationship with Adam/Eve and all their offspring.

So how does Christ restore His marriage relationship with mankind?

He does it by holding the woman/harlot/Eve responsible for the sin of adultery and destroys her by His judgment (the penalty of sin is death).

During a person's time of judgment, the harlot (woman) will have become "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. In this condition, the harlot is now called the "great harlot". Her judgment is shown in Revelation chapter 18.

Notice what this verse says about her:

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great (harlot) is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils (spirit of anti-Christ), and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird (false and carnal beliefs of Satan).

This judgment occurs during the conversion process.

Conversion begins when Christ gives an Elect person the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This gift of the Spirit is what creates a "new heart" within the person.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Judgment will then follow and "take away the stony heart". This judgment is the same judgment of the Great Harlot shown in Rev 18.

Now, to what Paul says here:

1Tim 2:15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

The woman is saved when a person is "born again" as a child of God. This happens when the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain) indwells a person. With the Holy Spirit, the carnal and weak spirit is destroyed. The person's spirit is then born again and is governed by the Holy Spirit. This makes the person's spirit new, strong and holy (just like Christ's spirit which could not be broken/made sinful).

Joe

 

[Wrangler]

Wow @FaithWillDo, that was a long answer.

Remember, in the "type", Adam and Eve represent

I reject all categorizations of Plato's forms, ideals and types.

This takes us to the spirit word "harlot".

There are no spirit words, only spirit topics.

@VictoryinJesus, how is the woman saved through childbearing? It is a form of repentence. Eve became a transgressor in GE 3:6 but childbearing was implied in GE 1:28. Therefore, by submitting to childbirth, she will be demonstrating abandoning her God complex, of usurping God's role, and submitting to His Will.

I hope this answers your question. I know you referenced Numbers 5 a lot in the other thread but only referenced 1 Tim 2 in the OP. I take it there is a tie in you want to make, yes?

 

[FaithWillDo]

Wow @FaithWillDo, that was a long answer.


I reject all categorizations of Plato's forms, ideals and types.

There are no spirit words, only spirit topics.

@VictoryinJesus, how is the woman saved through childbearing? It is a form of repentence. Eve became a transgressor in GE 3:6 but childbearing was implied in GE 1:28. Therefore, by submitting to childbirth, she will be demonstrating abandoning her God complex, of usurping God's role, and submitting to His Will.

I hope this answers your question. I know you referenced Numbers 5 a lot in the other thread but only referenced 1 Tim 2 in the OP. I take it there is a tie in you want to make, yes?

Dear Wrangler,
Your answer to VictoryinJesus has zero support from scripture.

Eve has a "god complex"???

If you can't support your statements from scripture, you are violating what Paul says here:

1Cor 4:6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

You said:
There are no spirit words, only spirit topics.

That is not what scripture teaches:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual (words).

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery (by using Christ's spiritual language), even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

Babes who draw milk (Christ and Him crucified) do not understand Christ's spiritual language because they remain carnally minded. Because they cannot understand Christ's New Covenant teachings, their house will be left empty of truth (Mat 12:43-45). Satan will then come to them and deceive them with his carnally pleasing lies. When they accept these lies, they will "fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken".

Joe

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@VictoryinJesus, how is the woman saved through childbearing? It is a form of repentence. Eve became a transgressor in GE 3:6 but childbearing was implied in GE 1:28. Therefore, by submitting to childbirth, she will be demonstrating abandoning her God complex, of usurping God's role, and submitting to His Will.

Do you think the woman is saved through childbearing in a hospital setting, bringing forth children in the literal? Where flesh gives birth to flesh.

Or do you think the Woman is saved through childbearing, bringing forth fruit unto God, Christ the first fruit? where Spirit gives birth to Spirit.

Equally important:
Are you saved by being born of your earthly mother?
Or are you saved by birth from above?

 

[Webers_Home]

Yet she will be saved through childbearing

The Greek word translated "saved" is a mite ambiguous. It doesn't always
pertain to retribution and perdition.

In context the passage is saying-- in so many words --that women are just
as blessed as mothers as men are blessed as teachers, preachers, and
church managers.

* I'd imagine there are some progressive women out there who would
disagree because in their minds, homemaking is a demeaning occupation.
_

 

[Wrangler]

Do you think the woman is saved through childbearing in a hospital setting, bringing forth children in the literal? Where flesh gives birth to flesh.

Or do you think the Woman is saved through childbearing, bringing forth fruit unto God, Christ the first fruit? where Spirit gives birth to Spirit.

Equally important:
Are you saved by being born of your earthly mother?
Or are you saved by birth from above?

No. Women do not save others by giving birth. My answer works as it reads. It is not the material, flesh, fruit by which she is saved but a repentant heart.

Let me say it again. Her fruit does not save her. There is the ends and there is the means. The end is twofold. On her part the end is childbirth. The end for God is saving her. The means by which God saves is her repentant heart.

Let me make an analogy. Your wonderful husband cooks a fantastic and nutritious meal. This is an act of love. You eat it as an act of respect. However, you are not absorbing the nutrition by your choice. That life sustaining activity is the gift of God.

 

[quietthinker]

hmmmm, can't buy any of the explanations given here!

 

[doctrox]

Matthew Henry had this to say:

Here are two very good reasons given for the man's authority over the woman, and her subjection to the man, v. 13, 14. Adam was first formed, then Eve; she was created for the man, and not the man for the woman (1 Co. 11:9); then she was deceived, and brought the man into the transgression.

Though the difficulties and dangers of childbearing are many and great, as they are part of the punishment inflicted on the sex for Eve's transgression, yet here is much for her support and encouragement: Notwithstanding she shall be saved, etc. Though in sorrow, yet she shall bring forth, and be a living mother of living children; with this proviso, that they continue in faith, and charity, and holiness, with sobriety: and women, under the circumstance of child-bearing should by faith lay hold of this promise for their support in the needful time.

 

[quietthinker]

Matthew Henry had this to say:

Here are two very good reasons given for the man's authority over the woman, and her subjection to the man, v. 13, 14. Adam was first formed, then Eve; she was created for the man, and not the man for the woman (1 Co. 11:9); then she was deceived, and brought the man into the transgression.

Though the difficulties and dangers of childbearing are many and great, as they are part of the punishment inflicted on the sex for Eve's transgression, yet here is much for her support and encouragement: Notwithstanding she shall be saved, etc. Though in sorrow, yet she shall bring forth, and be a living mother of living children; with this proviso, that they continue in faith, and charity, and holiness, with sobriety: and women, under the circumstance of child-bearing should by faith lay hold of this promise for their support in the needful time.

nah...cant buy this one either

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This takes us to the spirit word "harlot".

Thank you for sharing. That is a lot to take in. I’ve chosen two comments …change that to three comments you shared that stand out. I’ve been talking on another thread about how the “harlot” includes men and women. Same as a whorish woman the goes astray after another.
The spirit word “harlot”….The spirit of the world
1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

It sounds like “the spirit of the world” is outside of religion …or “the world” religion hates but is that the spirit of the world. Here is clarification on “the spirit of the world”
Colossians 2:20-23 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations- [21] "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch" [22] ( referring to things that all perish as they are used)-according to human precepts and teachings? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

If we pull that out: still alive in the world, having not died to the elemental spirits in the world ….you (men and women) submit to regulations. According to human precepts and teachings.
They have an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion. (Should be obvious by now)
But they have no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.
My thought: is they have you submit to their regulations, but do the same things they forbid.

This explains the below. Of submitting to please these elemental spirits who have no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh…having an appearance of wisdom(but this wisdom is from below and devilish) promoting self-made religion.

his is why Paul says this:

1Cor 7:33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

Consider the above. He who is married to the spirit of the world …cares for the things of the world…yes how he may please his wife.
^which flesh can and will never be pleased. You can not please self- made religion. You can not please human precepts and teachings. They themselves are in the bondage of sin.

Likewise
1 Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married cares for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

We want to make that about our significant other instead of are we married to the spirit of the world? A wife or husband doesn’t control your trying to please the world. You own your double-minded ways which are unstable. Spouses don’t get to point at their spouse and claim they (their spouse) makes them live in the world and submit to the elements spirits, or make them have an appearance of (devilish) wisdom but does nothing towards the (putting off) indulgence of the flesh.


Mark 4:18-19 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, [19] And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

this stands out as true because you can never please a Pharisee. Death is never satisfied. You can never please all the man-made regulations and religions. Yet he warns:
Romans 2:23-29 Thou that make your boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonor you God? [24] For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you be a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26] Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27] And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So how does Christ restore His marriage relationship with mankind?

So how does Christ restore His marriage relationship with mankind?

Romans 7:3-4 KSo then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. [4] Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. (Notice in the parable of the sower, seed, and ground…caring for the things of the world, pleasing man-made religion for men’s praise…it does nothing, it chokes and is unfruitful.

The Woman is saved through childbearing by the body of Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

1 Timothy 2:11-15 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. [12] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. [13] For Adam was formed first, then Eve; [14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. [15] Yet she will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

how is the woman saved through childbearing?

Salutations Victory in Jesus

Women are saved the same way as men that is for sure and certain.

But what is Paul talking about here? It could be about the spiritual aspects of a woman giving birth. It is connected to some of the oldest Jewish beliefs. Men entered the Covenant with God by ritually cutting the foreskin off their penis. Women did not have foreskins….they entered the Covenant with God by delivering children. So there is a spiritual significance to child birthing.

The topic here in these two scriptures is about women, all women and the old sin---the first sin of eating the fruit. There is possibly something unique about this first sin that is held against women that is forgiven through child birth. It is one of those things that is not fully explained in the scriptures that would seem to be significant.

But it is fun to read how those that think they are more spiritually connect attempt to explain this. But as you can see below there are actions we can take that have a unique effect on sins.

And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint. 1st Timothy 2:14-15

Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. 1st Peter 4:8

let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. James 5:20

 

[face2face]

Wow @FaithWillDo, that was a long answer.


I reject all categorizations of Plato's forms, ideals and types.

There are no spirit words, only spirit topics.

@VictoryinJesus, how is the woman saved through childbearing? It is a form of repentence. Eve became a transgressor in GE 3:6 but childbearing was implied in GE 1:28. Therefore, by submitting to childbirth, she will be demonstrating abandoning her God complex, of usurping God's role, and submitting to His Will.

I hope this answers your question. I know you referenced Numbers 5 a lot in the other thread but only referenced 1 Tim 2 in the OP. I take it there is a tie in you want to make, yes?

Morning Wrangler,

For Adam was formed first and then Eve. 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman, because she was fully deceived, fell into transgression. 1 Ti 2:13–15.

Unlike Adam who simply took the fruit - Eve experienced the full process of temptation which leads to sin.

For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

"That the tree was good for food" — The lust of the flesh aroused.
"And that it was pleasant to the eyes" — The "lust of the eyes."
"And a tree to be desired to make one wise" — The pride of life.

2:15 But she will be delivered through childbearing, if she continues in faith and love and holiness with self-control. 1 Ti 2:13–15.

It's clear Paul's mind is in Genesis 3 so the question is this, after teaching the truth about Eve and her sin, what followed in Gen 3?

What came after her sin?

"I (God) will greatly multiply your sorrow and thy conception" "In sorrow you will bring forth children" Genesis 3:16

What's interesting about the Woman is how different she is from the Man and in the judgement of sin, how so?

She felt the pain in the childbirth
She felt the pain of losing Abel more than Adam!

There would be a connection to the child, which would be sorrow upon sorrow and in this she would train up her child in the way it should go, through faith, love and holiness, like all those women who descended from Eve!

Wow Wrangler, consider the Allegory of Rebekah!

Imagine having two babies in you fighting? This would have given Rebekah great pain, as the antagonism of flesh and spirit always does. There was a struggle for priority of birth, anticipating the struggle predicted from the beginning. Gen 25:22

What of the story of Hannah, Elizabeth and Mary and so many more? The Bareness of Sarah and the Promised Son all pointed forward to Sarah being delivered through childbearing - no other way!

Paul also has in mind the allegorical value of the body of Christ, the second Eve (2 Cor 11:1-3), who also experiences travail in bringing forth children.

Paul's message is actually given in the positive - the woman, if she embraces the sorrow God meant for her and in reverence brings offspring into the world and teaches the child the things of God, will save herself in doing so.

It was a powerful way to finish that section on how Women should behave in the body of Christ.

F2F

 

[Ronald Nolette]

1 Timothy 2:11-15 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. [12] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. [13] For Adam was formed first, then Eve; [14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. [15] Yet she will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

how is the woman saved through childbearing?

Despite all the extensive answers so far, it really is simple.

Saved is the root word "sozo" and also means to deliver. What Paul is say8ing is that believing women will be delivered through their child bearing! Dying at childbirth was a very common way women died in Jesus day. but belieiving women for the most part would be kept safe or delivered from death when they gave birth.

sōzō (Key)
Pronunciation
sode'-zo

Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
From a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saoz, "safe")

to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction

1. 1. one (from injury or peril)
      1. to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health
      2. to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue
   2. to save in the technical biblical sense
      1. negatively
         1. to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment
         2. to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance

 

[face2face]

If I were a women and I'm not, but if I were Proverbs 31 would be very high on my list of Scriptures that teach a women how she can be saved:

 

[face2face]

“No man is poor who has had a godly mother.” - Abraham Lincoln

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If I were a women and I'm not, but if I were Proverbs 31 would be very high on my list of Scriptures that teach a women how she can be saved:

View attachment 51545

A woman is saved the same way as a man- through faith in the death and physical resurrectio0n of Jesus as payment for her sin.

 

[face2face]

A woman is saved the same way as a man- through faith in the death and physical resurrectio0n of Jesus as payment for her sin.

This is true but we are speaking to Paul's words in Timothy in relation to a woman's responsibilities while being alive!

You understand that right?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is true but we are speaking to Paul's words in Timothy in relation to a woman's responsibilities while being alive!

You understand that right?

You posted about being saved in childbirth and I answered it!

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

this verse simply says if a woman is godly- she will be kept safe during childbirth- no more, no less.

 

[doctrox]

Despite all the extensive answers so far, it really is simple.

Saved is the root word "sozo" and also means to deliver. What Paul is say8ing is that believing women will be delivered through their child bearing! Dying at childbirth was a very common way women died in Jesus day. but belieiving women for the most part would be kept safe or delivered from death when they gave birth.

...this verse simply says if a woman is godly- she will be kept safe during childbirth- no more, no less.

I think Ronald's got this right, given the context of the passage.

It's Occam's razor.

It was a powerful way to finish that section on how Women should behave in the body of Christ.

Yep, face2face is on with this, as well.

All in all, it's yet another instance of God's awesome grace being offered to us, the undeserving.