Strength and Honor: Triumphing over Feminism

[VictoryinJesus]

A Word on ownership:

Husband and wife are one flesh according to the Bible.

I do still love what your post. But here is where I am. I’ve been married 35 years. you commented it has taken you years …I think you said 10 to overcome feminism. Can I talk openly with you? I think I can without you becoming offended. Your family is still young. When I was where you are now I had hopes also. But a lot of life happens Wynona, I do think you are only at the tip of all that is ahead. My husband and I did okay while I showed interest in the things he had interest in. I think I’ve told you before we flipped homes and I would sweep and run and get things to help him. He would make furniture and I would run and fetch and bring and clean and stain and make what he built beautiful. I stayed home with the little ones. When my husband wanted to make pottery…I jumped in to support it even trying to do things along the same line. When he paints…I support it also trying to paint although I am not good at it. My husband for sure has many talents. I do believe I tried my best to foster those talents and benefited from them having beautiful handmade things for our home over the years. But life happens. You haven’t even come close to years of where this will head and what the fruit of it will be. You mentioned if your husband would ever throw the skittles on the floor, and how you would handle it in the Lord. Can I say the sh*t hasn’t hit the fan yet? I hope it never does. The biggest angst that slapped me in the face was I grew tired of moving when he says “let’s move again”. I grew tired of looking for the next thing to buy …I’m older now and leaning more toward “can we ever stop and just be content”? I do think my husband holds resentment for my not working a job. But at the same he didn’t want me to work. Which has been years of my never being pleasing.

You said the husband and wife are one flesh. I do see a time in the past where my husband and I were one flesh…we thrived together in the world to gain the world and we had a mindset that didn’t much include God, even though we claimed it did include God. I would prefer my husband and I be One in Spirit with the Lord. To me even there are different kinds of flesh…it makes sense to me that there is terrestrial flesh which is two joined in after the earthly things. And there is celestial flesh which is two joined as One after the Heavenly things. The glory of the earthly is different from the Glory of heavenly things. I don’t have all the answers but I do know this …that the fruit I sowed was sin unto death. I’ve tasted of the fruit of sin unto death when my husband and I become enemies bashing in bitterness. I do really believe God can heal relationships but I don’t think it’s by sowing unto the earthly flesh but sowing instead unto that which is joined unto the Lord is One Spirit.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

I don’t think I’ll be here in twenty years…but I do think you may see by then what fruit has come from what you have sown. I do hope it’s good fruit.

Not to bring another belief into question but Jehovah witnesses come to my door. Usually women. They will tell me they are not chosen for heaven. Instead they have been chosen for the earth. Only those selected can go to heaven. I scratch my head at this. But here is what I tell them. I do think they are in a better position saying “I’m content to be chosen for earth”. It’s those who take the highest positions of their being the ones chosen for heaven, I worry the most for. I do worry mostly for those elevated saying they have been told they are chosen of God for the highest seats, in heaven. Same with husbands. To me it’s selfish for me to feed into stoking my husbands ego. I do want him and I to be heirs together of the grace of God. There is a verse where Jesus Christ tells them to go make friends with the unrighteous mammon so that when it fails, they will receive you back into eternal habitations. Tired and sure and true is making friends with the unrighteous mammon, it Will Fail.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Of course I'm talking about the body of Christ. And He gave us a manual to guide us, the Word of God. She has made herself ready (and repaired her own knot holes!) to be a (profitable servant) to the Lord

If @Wrangler comes and likes your post I might scream. After pages of men are not a part of the Woman. I’m sure it will be spun as a metaphor. I’ve never met a metaphor that gives Life. Which tells me it’s more than a metaphor.

 

[Wrangler]

If @Wrangler comes and likes your post I might scream. After pages of men are not a part of the Woman.

You're really tripped over figurative - rather than literal - use of language.

Discernment. A coworker and I talked about the proverb that said it is better for a man to be on the roof than in the home with a nagging wife. This is literally, not figuratively, talking about a nagging wife.

Do you know why Ephesians 5 talks about why men should love their wives and women should respect their husbands? Because they literally struggle more with the specified verb. That is, not equal struggle to love and respect across sexes.

 

[Mink57]

That's a huge statement Sister. If you list yourself as a Christian but we have different Gods, then someone is lying, right?

Or, we believe in the SAME God, but see that God differently. Some see God as a tyrant as from the OT. Others see God as more benevolent.

I am a Christian. Trying to be.

Glad you said, 'TRYING to be'...which means that you're not quite there. NONE of us are.

I believe that Jesus came in the flesh and was killed and that He did rise again on the third day.

Is that ALL you believe? What about everything else that Christ taught?

I also use the word of God as His book of truth for me, to guide me by. The book tells us to, the Lord has has told me to.

Again, it comes down to interpretation.

You cant not believe the bible is true and find the Lord. I am not going to be the guy who stands in front of Him one day to hear Him ask me, did you read my book to you?
Uh well Lord you see, some people said it wasnt reliable and had many errors in it so I didnt bother...Uhhhh, that would be embarassing.

I have mentioned before that I've read the bible from cover to cover TWICE, and yes there DOES appear to be many contradictions.

And it was His words about men, women, submission, and life. How to live what to do. What is your station in life?

It is your interpretation of the bible that's part of the problem. Case in point: As I pointed out to Wynona about submission, I refer to the passage of Ephesians 5:21 that says, that we are to "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." Ephesians 5:22 often begins, "Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord." But I explained to Wynona that the word "submit" in 5:22 was added in later copies; not in the original Greek. Also, the word 'submit' is not the same word in Greek as 'obey.' Therefore, one can't say that Ephesians 5:22 means for wives to 'obey' their husbands.

Ephesians 5:22-33 describes how a wife and husband should submit to one another. A wife's submission to her husband may look (in some ways) different than how a husband submits to his wife. Paul furthers the idea of a marriage of mutual submission in 1 Corinthians 7:3-5:
Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."

I'm sorry that you were dealt the short end of the stick in life. But I didnt do it! Men didnt do it! God wrote those words, so your problem is with Him and not me. What would yo say if the Lord asked you those questions one day?

I wasn't dealt the short end of anything. Again, it's YOUR interpretation that's the problem.

Well Lord men werent being fair to us so I just did what I wanted to and disregarded your word?

That's a chance I wouldnt take. But, to each his own.

And what would YOU say if God told you you were wrong? I know what you'd do.

You'd act like Adam. You'd blame women and blame God.

 

[Wrangler]

To me it’s selfish for me to feed into stoking my husbands ego.

Huh? Did you mean to word it this way? By comparison, it would be selfish for a man to pay his wife a compliment? Not sure what you are getting at there.

 

[Wynona]

I do think my husband holds resentment for my not working a job. But at the same he didn’t want me to work. Which has been years of my never being pleasing.

Since we are being open, I want to point to the fact that this is a major difference in our lives.

I dislike focusing on what husband's should do but part of why I'm bold is because of my husband's encouragement, support, and affirmation in who I am and in my walk with Christ and the life we have together.

I don't think Id be as strong or as confident without this support and Godly covering.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You're really tripped over figurative - rather than literal - use of language.

Discernment. A coworker and I talked about the proverb that said it is better for a man to be on the roof than in the home with a nagging wife. This is literally, not figuratively, talking about a nagging wife.

Do you know why Ephesians 5 talks about why men should love their wives and women should respect their husbands? Because they literally struggle more with the specified verb. That is, not equal struggle to love and respect across sexes.

Do you spend a lot of time up on the roof of your home?

 

[Wrangler]

To me it is about Hearing His Voice.

Why do you keep saying “Appeal to subjectivism”?

Do you see the "to me" part of what you wrote? That makes the sentence subjective.

OBJECTIVE STATEMENT: Coke is the #1 selling soft drink.

SUBJECTIVE STATEMENT: To me, Fresca is the soft drink I prefer.

The 1st is a matter of fact. The 2nd is a matter of how I (the subject) feels or prefers.

Psychologists have conditioned people to make subjective type statements as a means to improve relationships. This is monumentally stupid since conflict resolution involves addressing the facts of action not ones feelings. Dr. Laura wrote a whole chapter in The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands that feelings are not facts. Women tend to want to use what they feel as a fact. It's not.

To say, "To me it is about Hearing His Voice" does not mean that it is, in fact, about hearing his voice.

This is what you are saying ..God’s Voice was heard to speak to wives in unequal ways to husbands.
You hope…

No. Facts. I trust God to know how to use language properly. When he says a rock, I do not dismiss what he says and read into it, he must mean a leather shoe when he says rock OR as you like to make of it, a leather shoe and a rock.

I just take what he says at face value - unless it is figurative use of language. Personally, I struggled with figurative use of language and generally do not prefer it. Yet, that does not change the fact that the Bible is highly figurative. And at the same time, it most certainly makes literal statements as well. It takes discernment.

In another thread (why I wouldn't like Jesus), I spoke of this. Jesus repeatedly used the word bread but in frustration he confessed he is not talking about bread! This goes to show excessive use of figurative language.

 

[Wrangler]

The body joined to Christ is One Spirit.

Huh? Man and woman are still 2 bodies with 2 minds.

Regarding the "one spirit" thing, I suppose this leads into Once Saved Always Saved. Jesus said IF you abide in me, I will abide in you. This implies it is possible to NOT abide in him, aka not keeping the one Spirit.

The "one spirit" notion is an ideal, not a practical reality all the time. Even the Apostles argued with each other. Paul and Silas argued so much about Mark abandoning them before that Paul and Silas stopped doing missionary work together. And there is that we should not quarrel amongst ourselves. Should. The reason this is stated in Scripture is precisely because, in practice, believers do quarrel and are not "one spirit".

 

[Wrangler]

How have you triumphed over feminism?

Did you answer my question on how you triumphed over feminism yet? (I may have missed it).

Funny that you should ask me for every post I've made in this thread shows how I have triumphed over feminism. When I was young, as Rush Limbaugh used to say, "young skull full of mush," I embraced through the ether the cultural norms. As I thought about things, I realized how revolutionary I am. Like Jesus was. I realized how so much of cultural norms are wrong, i.e., cannot hold up to scrutiny.

Early on I saw the double standard of feminism. It claims to be about equality but they don't concern themselves with aspects of society where it is men who have the short end of the stick. Ergo, feminism is a lie. It disguises victory as equality but is, in truth, a fully sexist ideology with communist leanings, a woman's advocacy group. When men advocate for themselves, oh how the vitriol and shaming language comes out. Watch this vid.

 

[Wrangler]

Is the body of Christ divided?

Of course the body of Christ is divided!! There are over 35,000 divisions and still growing. Many don't vote, which is why I started a thread are Christians better off being ruled by unbelievers.

 

[Wrangler]

Does any of this ring a bell? What the Lord has joined…let no man divided. If any man be in Christ …He is a new creature. Where there is no more Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, neither male nor female…yet “God’s Voice was heard to speak to wives in unequal ways to husbands.”

Yea, it rings a bell. I know it well. You keep getting confused. 1st, between literal and figurative. 2nd, between theoretical and practical. Now, between genus and differentia. In general ways, we are the same. In specific ways we are not. Discernment.

 

[Mink57]

Oh, they trust God. Just not YOUR God, YOUR way.

Plus, Feminism was inspired by the Native American Indians Matrilineal way of life. Early Colonists tried to use the bible to get the Indian women out of the fields and ONLY into the home. Nope. The Indians didn't buy it.

I think I agree with that. My God is not your God, and I'm sorry to hear that.

How can they say they trust God and they dont even trust men? They are liars.

Why would they trust men? You think ALL men act according to God? Do you think that ALL "Christian" men behave according to God?

Wow that's some chip you have on your shoulder there. So what's behind those questions?
Did God make men defective?

God made men and women with a free will. Some will use their free will for good, others for evil, even if they claim to be Christian.

Does God hate women so he dealt them a bad hand?

Of course not. It's not God who dealt women a bad hand; it's the arrogance of SOME men who wanted to play God on earth, who did that.

What led you to that conclusion? An ephiniy? A series of poor choices on your part? What?

It was other men who brought me to that conclusion. That is, other CHRISTIAN men. Yes, believe it or not, there are some SMART Christian men who support Feminism.

What makes you think women should have no consequences for being stupid?

I never said that. I believe that men and women BOTH should have consequences for their actions. Eve had consequences for her actions; Adam had consequences too. God never told Adam that he should 'rule' over Eve, nor did He say that men should 'rule' over women. He told Eve THAT would happen. But...BEFORE that...that is, BEFORE then Fall, Adam didn't rule over Eve, nor did men rule over women.

Are you saying that Patriarchy was established because women are stupid?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Huh? Did you mean to word it this way? By comparison, it would be selfish for a man to pay his wife a compliment? Not sure what you are getting at there.

Compliments can have many motives. I want my husband to care about my growth in the Lord. I don’t want to be used to build an earthly kingdom but I want to be used to build something true and real. I don’t want to be encouraged to things that hinder my growth in God. I want to do the same for my husband. Like the verse “provoke one another to love.”

I would like to be profitable above a servant, as A dearly beloved brother(Christ in me) both I flesh and in the lord. I would hope my husband wants the same. That there be Fruit unto God. It would be nice to attend to the Lord without distractions. As I said …as joint heirs in the grace of Christ. Flattery can be deceitful.

Philemon 1:16 Not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both in the flesh, and in the Lord?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yea, it rings a bell. I know it well. You keep getting confused. 1st, between literal and figurative. 2nd, between theoretical and practical. Now, between genus and differentia. In general ways, we are the same. In specific ways we are not. Discernment.

You keep saying your perspective is the only way claiming it is the perspective of God. That remains to be seen. We can claim all we want to, as His word even says every man’s way is right in his own mind. You seem sold on your way. I don’t have to dress over it. I do believe where it says if it’s a work of God, then nothing can overcome it. If it not of God, but of men, it will come to nothing. That is regarding both of us.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Huh? Man and woman are still 2 bodies with 2 minds.

1 Corinthians 6:16-17 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. [17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Philippians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it become the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Philippians 2:3-8 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. [4] Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. [5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

That is the troubled I’ve found in my marriage that our minds …two minds, two bodies..war against each other. To me the more we grow in One Spirit, One Mind …imo I can see the more the Mind of Christ is in us…the more agreement there is in Christ. Paul speaks I have no one to send but Timothy who is likeminded and will naturally care for your well-being.

Just my opinion. If the mind of Christ is in me …not being conformed unto the world but being transformed by the renewal of the Mind. And my husband has the mind of Christ not being conformed unto the world but being transformed by the renewal of the Mind. The more Christ is formed, two minds becoming joined together in One Spirit, One mind in the Lord….it is no long “I” or even “we” but “joined” in Christ. Or at least I hope so. To me this is restoration of relationships where God can heal two against one another so there is peace. I hope so. The only way I see healing and there being obedience unto righteous, instead of sin unto death is by being joined to the Lord(who is the vine) in one Spirit, and One mind which is Christ.

If the mind that was in Christ is being formed in me, How can my husband hate the mind of Christ. if the Mind of Christ is being formed in my husband, then how can I hate the mind of Christ? Especially if we both say we love the mind of Christ. Then wouldn’t we both want to nurture the mind of Christ in each other?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Of course the body of Christ is divided!! There are over 35,000 divisions and still growing. Many don't vote, which is why I started a thread are Christians better off being ruled by unbelievers.

Just because there are 35,000 divisions and still growing …doesn’t make it true. It’s evidence of something divided for sure. Don’t forget He said a house divide m, falls. And great is it’s fall. Yes it’s evidence of division but that doesn’t necessarily equate =Christ is divided. Paul even scolded that it ought not be so. I’m of this man, I’m of that man’s doctrine, I’m this, and I’m that…

1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

 

[Wrangler]

You keep saying your perspective is the only way claiming it is the perspective of God.

There's that Appeal to Subjectivism again. Facts are not subjective, not a matter of perspective.

I had a debate with a friend several years back. He pivoted "wine" to mean fruit juice. I trust the all knowing Creator of the universe to know to use words correctly, wine to mean wine, wife to mean wife, husband to mean husband - when talking literally. Do you?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There's that Appeal to Subjectivism again. Facts are not subjective, not a matter of perspective.

I had a debate with a friend several years back. He pivoted "wine" to mean fruit juice. I trust the all knowing Creator of the universe to know to use words correctly, wine to mean wine, wife to mean wife, husband to mean husband - when talking literally. Do you?

So when you say “appeal to Subjectivism”… you are saying it’s not your perspective but God’s perspective?

 

[Wrangler]

That is the troubled I’ve found in my marriage that our minds …two minds, two bodies..war against each other. To me the more we grow in One Spirit, One Mind …imo I can see the more the Mind of Christ is in us…the more agreement there is in Christ.

Do you hear what you are saying? To grow into something implies you are not yet that thing.

I suppose another pivot is absolute verses degree or actual compared to potential.

If the mind that was in Christ is being formed in me, How can my husband hate the mind of Christ. if the Mind of Christ is being formed in my husband, then how can I hate the mind of Christ? Especially if we both say we love the mind of Christ. Then wouldn’t we both want to nurture the mind of Christ in each other?

As you mentioned the war between you are your husband but there is also a war within each of us. During this formative time, we are not fully in Christ. There remains our individual/selfish/sinful nature.

I've shared with @Mink57 but I don't know if you were active in the thread at the time that my wife has a problem with anxiety. It causes her to make decisions without thinking it through. Normally, this most disturbingly shows itself financially. She realizes after the fact that it was a mistake but in the heat of the moment, she cannot overcome the anxiety to wait until due diligence was done and that I'm on board with it.

Many times, the reason I am not in favor of a decision is the WHEN more than the WHAT. I'm not stating unequivocally that WHAT she wants is bad. What I am saying unequivocally is that WHEN she wants to buy (before considering other options) is why it is bad. Let's consider a car. Maybe she picked out the perfect car. Still, WHERE we buy has many options. There is no good that comes from buying it at the first dealership. She has ruined herself financially time and again this way. Just a couple of weeks ago, to avoid a $1,400 car repair, she made a $33,000 buying decision. Naturally, she blamed me!

She blamed me for not talking her out of it AS IF the default is not buying it unless I am on board. This is a great example of where she should defer to my better judgment. In practice, not one mind, not one Spirit.