Earburner
Well-Known Member
In concentration camps? Yes.
On a larger scale, isn't Gaza a similar situation?
Daniel Chapter 8 - the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy
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No, the concentration camps were holding camps that Jews were placed in to await extermination.
Differently, Gaza is a base of operation from which that terrorists conduct their attacks on the Israeli population.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
You misunderstand that Gog and Magog, in the OT., was a REAL EVENT.
Gog and Magog in Rev. is symbolic of the Glorious and visible return of Christ, in flaming fire, taking VENGEANCE on Satan (Gog) and all the unsaved (Magog). 2 Thes 1:7-10
KJV Dan. 9:27 is about Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection in the 70th week. Then following, that which was "determined" to be accomplished by Jesus, in vs. 24, was then poured out at Pentecost on the desolate, being those who were void of God. Acts 10:45.
There is nothing in those verses that suggest anything of a seven year tribulation on earth.
ITS NOT about anyone confirming anything about an OT covenant, but rather Jesus, who confirms the NEW Covenant.
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
Don't you know that Gaza became the holding area for the Palestinian refugees, after 1948?
Gaza: The History That Fuels the Conflict | HISTORY
This 140‑square‑mile stretch of land located along the Mediterranean coast between Egypt and Israel, has endured decades of protest, military operations and violence.
www.history.com
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Deuteronomy 31:9-13 is about a law that Moses made of all future leaders of Israel to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant every 7 years. It is not implying a seven year tribulation. But points to the Antichrist as the phony King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for seven years, Daniel 9:27.
Bladerunner
Member
Yes you are correct and that would mean 2300 days or about 7 years...On the other hand, "morning and evenings" represents only 1/2 of a day..or 1150 days. This is 3.5 years.
lets share others with the details. Dating backwards (of the #days) from 165BC (the cleansing of the temple by the Maccabees) we get. 2300 days..we come to 171BC...the persecusion days of Antiochus Epiphanes. For the 1150 days, (168-164 BC) the Maccabean Wars which at the end some 3+ years resulted in the cleansing of the temple by John Maccabeus
The Interpretation of Chapter 8 is the History of the Goat and the Ram or rather the Persian/Medo armies against the Greek Armies of Alexander the Great. Of course, one can find that the prophecies of Daniel 9:25-27 uses the same process Year to Days. Here the prophecy correctly predicted the EXACT Day Jesus would ride the donkey into Jerusalem in 32 AD. by use 178,880 days for the 390 years of the Prophecy.
Thanks for the comments. So you don’t believe the 2300 day prophecy could refer to the Messiah as opposed to AE?
Also, are you saying that verses 9-19, and 23-26 are not speaking about the 4th kingdom as opposed to the 3rd?
And the reason I mention this is because the most important kingdom is when the Messiah will arrive and the 70 weeks of years prophecy will end and the results that will take place as a result of the cross.
Look forward to your response.
Bladerunner
Member
No, Daniel 9:24-26 prophecy takes care of that. The 27th verse of course is for the 70th week by itself. The Bible is very accurate...if it seems not to be close then jump in and find what you missed.
this order. 9-19 are the Persian/Medo and Greeks...8:20-21. 8:22 is speaking of the Greecian Army after Alexander dies.His four generals take over ad rule until the Eastern Romans conquer them. however, verses 23-26 are of the Greek generals who are and will be (Antiochus Epiphanes) rise and fall.
Gabriel, the angel again visits Daniel in Chapter 9 and gives Him the coming prophecy in verses 9:25-26. The 27th verse is the prophecy of the 7 years of Tribulation that will end the world as we know it and begin the millennium or 1,000 of Christ's reign on earth.
Bladerunner
Member
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Correct!
Yes, by all means, let's all find out what IS BEING MISSED!!
Here is why the Jews celebrate Hanukkah.
And why we as Christians should pay attention to the fulfilled prophecy of the 2300 literal Days:
Due to human error of recording past events, any attempt to align biblical prophecy with the actual history, could be off just a little bit of maybe only 1.0 percent. "We know in part"- 1 Cor. 13:9-12.
However overall, the accuracy is derived from the tools of correct measurements, being that of the books of Daniel and 1 Maccabees, with the guidance of God's Holy Spirit, and that of a good knowledge of Ancient History.
In the opening of Daniel 11:1-4
"The Four winds of heaven" is symbolic for the four compass points of the earth, being that of the locations of the "four heads"**, the four divisions of the Grecian Empire, after the death of Alex the Great.
**Note: the four Generals of Alex the Great were: Ptolomey, Cassander, Seleucus and Lysichimus. Dan. 8[8] Therefore the he goat [Grecian Empire] waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn [Alex the Great] was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven, aka. the four compass points of the earth.
Using Jewish time of 360 days in a year, the timing of the 2300 day prophecy is found in the words of Daniel 8:13-14.
The 1290 days took place WITHIN the 2300 days, which reveals 1010 days remaining, in which Antiochus Epiphanes IV troddened down both the army of Israel and the temple for 730 days
> Then after, for a period of an additional 280 days, the temple was left in ruins. 1 Maccabees 3:45. But during that time, Judas Maccabeus/Israel continued fighting against king Antiochus Epiphanes, as well as Lysias and Ptolemy. 1 Maccabees 3:27-39
Dan. 8[13] Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation,
to give both the sanctuary [temple] and the host [army of Israel] to be trodden under foot?
[14] And he said unto me, Unto [the end of] two thousand and three hundred [2300] days;
THEN [for 45 days later] shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
> Now, one must to do the math of WHEN Antiochus Epiphanes troddened down the temple and WHEN the "host" (army) of Israel was trodden down also.
(Please see 1 Maccabees ch. 1-4 for the actual dates and times of when and how Antiochus Epiphanes operated in his time of war against the saints of Israel).
> The prophetic time frame of the AoD of the temple, and then it's restoration is understood in Dan. 12:11.
[11] And FROM the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away [for 2 years- 1 Mac. 2:20-29], the abomination that maketh desolate [be] SET UP, [all the while troddening down the temple], there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety [1290] days.
Then came 730 days of war against Israel by king Antiochus Epiphanes, and then additional skirmishes of war for 280 days through Lysias and Ptolemey, while the temple was left in ruins by Antiochus.
All of that war with Antiochus Epiphanes, Lysias and Ptolemy totals: 1290+730+280=2300 days.
> 1290 days- the taking away of the sacrifice and the setting up of the abomination that maketh desolate;
> 730 days- the troddening down of the "host" (army) of Israel;
> 280 days- the continuance of war with Antiochus, and then with Lysias and Ptolemy.
> As for the temple restoration (under Judas Maccabeus-the prince of Israel), that was 45 days later, which when added to the 1290 equals 1335 days. However, the 45 days is AFTER the 2300 days, and is not to be included in the math of 2300 minus 1290. (Dan. 8:13-14)
[12] Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty [1335] days. [Which was the 45 days of the temple cleansing of restoration, and its rededication], of which it is celebrated today as Hanukkah.
1 Maccabees 4:36-56
[36] Then said Judas and his brethren, Behold, our enemies are discomfited [in disarray] let us go up to cleanse and dedicate the sanctuary.
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Bladerunner
Member
The first of many mistakes of the covenmental person. you said: "is symbolic for the four compass points of the earth, being that of the locations of the "four heads"**, the four divisions of the Grecian Empire, after the death of Alex the Great. " SO, you cannot say that GOD Sayeth: No He did not- you did. don't think he is going to like your wordplay on His WORD...He is very jealous, be very afraid if I were you.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
I don't have to say God sayeth. History does, which is the usual way of how God's prophetic words are manifested.
After the death of "Alex the Great", His four Generals divided the Grecian Empire into four sections:
North- Lysimachos
East- Seleucus
South- Ptolemy
West- Cassander
Bladerunner
Member
OK, what is your point.I don't have to say God sayeth. History does, which is the usual way of how God's prophetic words are manifested.
After the death of "Alex the Great", His four Generals divided the Grecian Empire into four sections:
North- Lysimachos
East- Seleucus
South- Ptolemy
West- Cassander
Earburner
Well-Known Member
The 2300 days were fulfilled completely, when Judas Maccabeus, the prince of Israel, cleansed/restored the Temple sanctuary.
1 Maccabees 4:36-59.
Edit: if one does not correctly discern the 2300 day prophecy as being already fulfilled, they are NEVER going to understand the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27, which is primarily about Jesus and what He "finished" on the cross in the 70th week.
Clue: verse 24.
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Hello
If the Little Horn is the fallen beastly angel that is being given earthly armies to trample God's Sancturary and God's earthly hosts then we should consider the following words from Daniel 8: -
What gives me concern is that the time of the Maccabees revolt and the co-incidence that the temple was defiled for 2,300 days, that the described future exploits of the Little Horn spans a time period of more than just 2,300 days. Around 160 years later when Christ was born the Little Horn rose up through King Herod and attempted to have Christ slaughtered in Bethlehem. The influence of the Little Horn can also be seen some 33 years later when Christ was crucified on a cross. Then around 40 years later the little Horn was given another army with which to trample the temple and to destroy it, as well as to trample the Israelites living in and around Jerusalem to begin the scattering of the Jews to the four corners of the earth.
With the Little Horn's cunning and deceit with the trampling of the temple around 160 BC, the Little Horn has been able to disguise the full extent of the 2,300-year prophecy concerning his ability to trample God Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts from around 250 BC up and until the end of this present sixth age with the Maccabees incident.
This is so typical of people trying to force a particular interpretation that simply does not take into account all the parts of the Daniel 8 prophecy.
The deception by the Little Horn is still going on even on this forum.
Shalom
[1] Perhaps, what is being expressed with the Greek word, “ מֶ֣לֶךְ ”, me·leḵ, is the dominion of the first king of Greece, which was Alexandra the Great’s empire.
If the Little Horn is the fallen beastly angel that is being given earthly armies to trample God's Sancturary and God's earthly hosts then we should consider the following words from Daniel 8: -
Daniel 8:13-23: - 13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, "How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?"
14 And he said to me, "For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed."
Gabriel Interprets the Vision
15 Then it happened, when I, Daniel, had seen the vision and was seeking the meaning, that suddenly there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the Ulai, who called, and said, "Gabriel, make this man understand the vision." 17 So he came near where I stood, and when he came, I was afraid and fell on my face; but he said to me, "Understand, son of man, that the vision refers to the time of the end."
18 Now, as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep with my face to the ground; but he touched me and stood me upright. 19 And he said, "Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be. 20 The ram which you saw, having the two horns — they are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the male goat is the kingdom[1] of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king. 22 As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power.
23 "And in the latter time of their kingdom,
When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
A king shall arise,
Having fierce features,
Who understands sinister schemes.
24 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;
He shall destroy fearfully,
And shall prosper and thrive;
He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.
25 "Through his cunning
He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;
And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
He shall destroy many in their prosperity.
He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;
But he shall be broken without human means.
26 "And the vision of the evenings and mornings
Which was told is true;
Therefore, seal up the vision,
For it refers to many days in the future."
What gives me concern is that the time of the Maccabees revolt and the co-incidence that the temple was defiled for 2,300 days, that the described future exploits of the Little Horn spans a time period of more than just 2,300 days. Around 160 years later when Christ was born the Little Horn rose up through King Herod and attempted to have Christ slaughtered in Bethlehem. The influence of the Little Horn can also be seen some 33 years later when Christ was crucified on a cross. Then around 40 years later the little Horn was given another army with which to trample the temple and to destroy it, as well as to trample the Israelites living in and around Jerusalem to begin the scattering of the Jews to the four corners of the earth.
With the Little Horn's cunning and deceit with the trampling of the temple around 160 BC, the Little Horn has been able to disguise the full extent of the 2,300-year prophecy concerning his ability to trample God Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts from around 250 BC up and until the end of this present sixth age with the Maccabees incident.
This is so typical of people trying to force a particular interpretation that simply does not take into account all the parts of the Daniel 8 prophecy.
The deception by the Little Horn is still going on even on this forum.
Shalom
[1] Perhaps, what is being expressed with the Greek word, “ מֶ֣לֶךְ ”, me·leḵ, is the dominion of the first king of Greece, which was Alexandra the Great’s empire.
Bladerunner
Member
I'll not dispute that yet, 2300 days from the beginning of AE (170 BC)of his persecution to the first day of Cleansing/Restoring (164BC) of the temple is very close and should be considered completely fulfilled as it has nothing to do with the the first century AD. While the Little Horn is seen in different kingdoms, it is an idiom for the Anti-christ that is to come. And while Satan Himself was present for the crucifixion of Christ, the temptations in the desert, etc. The anti-Christ was not.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
The trouble with "church-ianity" is that they have not figured it out yet that there is no future LH to come at any time. Antiochus Epiphanes was the ONLY one prophesied of, and he surely did fulfill it.
But didn’t the little horn come out of the 4th kingdom?
And isn’t the 4th kingdom, after Greece, pagan Rome?
And wasn’t pagan Rome slain and its body destroyed by ~ 467 AD (7:11)?
So, does that all mean the little horn HAD to come before pagan Rome was destroyed but after pagan Rome came to power around 63 BC?
Do you really find that AE, a relatively minor thug who came into history AFTER the end of the 3rd kingdom and BEFORE the start of the 4th kingdom fit, not only the timing described in the verses, but also the characteristics found in:
1) Daniel 7:7-8?
2) Daniel 7:11-12?
3) Daniel 7:19-25?
4) Daniel 8:9-12?
5) Daniel 8:23-25?
All of this can be attributed to a minor character that is not found in ANY of the 4 kingdoms?
Wasn’t he the same Syrian general who was completely embarrassed by the Roman general (drawing a line in the sand scene) and put his tail between his legs and ran back home?
Yes, he hated the Jews and disrespected the Temple and murdered many Jews but he could never meet the timing and the truly evil and powerful characteristics of the one identified in the above verses, could he?
Thanks, look forward to your response.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Q. What gives me concern is that no one is focussing on what the "Age" WAS, that was present before God's NEW "Age of Grace", through the shed blood of Christ?
A. It was the OLD "Age of Indignation", of which indeed had an END. Which is exactly what God did do in the day of Jesus' death and resurrection.
The time and date of the prophesy is also important. Cannot isolate a single verse without the others.
And EXACTLY the number of incense offerings missed is the number of days and hours until the sanctuary and altar was set right and the evening offering was made....praying for Israel and for God to send the Messiah.
Meaning....God knows and misses every offering not made by his children.
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