Is Faith A Person?

[MA2444]

You are confusing converse logic. A noun can be a person does not translate to all nouns are persons.

Ok, perhaps so. So can you show me where this noun in this passage is NOT a person absolutly?

 

[Wrangler]

No one’s opinion/ belief is any more valid than yours or anyone else’s .

Nonsense. If that were true, there wouldn't be such angst about who we marry, elect, hire, appoint as judge. It is why we pay doctor's and business leaders so much, relatively speaking.

Some opinions, objective opinions, are based on facts, logic and moral principles. Other opinions, subjective opinions, are based on emotions, speculations and preferences.

In politics, the majority opinion wins. Winning and losing are not equal. If you think in terms of valid, the majority opinion takes on validity of advancing in politics. This attribute does not apply to the minority, losing, less valid opinion.

 

[Ritajanice]

@Wrangler .you said below.

Nonsense. If that were true, there wouldn't be such angst about who we marry, elect, hire, appoint as judge. It is why we pay doctor's and business leaders so much, relatively speaking.

Some opinions, objective opinions, are based on facts, logic and moral principles. Other opinions, subjective opinions, are based on emotions, speculations and preferences.

In politics, the majority opinion wins. Winning and losing are not equal. If you think in terms of valid, the majority opinion takes on validity of advancing in politics. This attribute does not apply to the minority, losing, less valid opinion.

Ritajanice says.
I stand by what I said on this thread, what your opinion is, what your belief is, on @MA2444 topic....is just that.

No way shape or form can you prove what you say is truth...it’s “ your” opinion/ truth.

Which you have now voiced above to me...no problem...I welcome your opinion and your truth.it belongs to you , therefore entitled to voice it, all in my opinion of course,lol.

Ps...I wish I understood your logic.....it makes no sense to me, with respect.

 

[MA2444]

I have done it. You came back with Appeal to Ignorance, which is no proof for your claim.

You asked a question in response to my question. I'd like you to answer it.

One can have faith, just like any characteristic virtue like courage, punctuality, perseverance. How can faith be a person if another person can have it? Are all virtues and vices a person? If not, why not?

Is that the question? I think it is so I'll answer it.
Can I ask a question as my answer?

Let's change a few of your words just for the sake of discussion, for a moment, ok?

How can Jesus be a person and me be "in christ" if everyone else can too? I am in Christ. Christ is in me. I believe that. I believe that you are in Christ also and Christ in you. Do you? I dont understand that but is anything too hard for God? Why wouldn't Faith be the same as Jesus in His (her?) abilities. Faith is of the Kingdom of God. DO I know how He does it? No of course not. But either you have Faith or you dont! (Lol) I'm working on it Brother.

I wonder what would happen if I began speaking to Faith as a person within me?

 

[MA2444]

Some opinions, objective opinions, are based on facts, logic and moral principles. Other opinions, subjective opinions, are based on emotions, speculations and preferences.

Emotions? Prefrences?

So you have facts, logic and objective opinions? Good! Let's hear them!

I thought you might list revelation from the Holy Spirit also, but for some reason, you didnt. ??

 

[MA2444]

Ps...I wish I understood your logic.....it makes no sense to me, with respect.

Me too. What we're talking about is a very spiritual (theory) and so I dont think that Objective opinions, logic, and Emotions & Prefrences can discern the truth in such a subject, for those things he mentioned are of the flesh so are unable to be discerned by the flesh for they are spiritually discerned.

You make a lot of sense in your posts. Yay! I have someone in my corner which my ramblings make sense to! But it's not about being right or wrong. It's about getting to the truth is all.

He didnt write lean not to your own understanding in Proverbs for nothing.

 

[Ritajanice]

@MA2444 ...said.

Me too. What we're talking about is a very spiritual



RJ....says Amen!!

Short commentary.

What happens when God removes the veil?
The “eyes of our heart” are opened when the veil is removed from our heart by Jesus and we can clearly see His hope, our inheritance, which is incredible; and the power He has made available to us who know Him intimately – the same power that raised Jesus from the dead!

 

[Wrangler]

No way shape or form can you prove what you say is truth

Nope. Some theories (opinions) get us to the moon. Others do not. If you deny this is proof, then you are denying what constitutes proof.

Said differently, it is not the evidence but the acceptance criteria of what evidence constitutes proof. The proof is in the pudding. In this case, the pudding is Scripture. Personification is a literary device not suggesting the existence of an actual person. Winter is coming. Do you suppose Jack Frost is a person nipping at your nose?

 

[Wrangler]

Can I ask a question as my answer?

No.

 

[Wrangler]

So you have facts, logic and objective opinions? Good! Let's hear them!

I already shared them. I'll give you two other examples.

Objective opinion. Coke is the best selling soft drink in the world.
Subjective opinion. My wife likes Pepsi better than Coke.

 

[Ritajanice]

Nope. Some theories (opinions) get us to the moon. Others do not. If you deny this is proof, then you are denying what constitutes proof.

Said differently, it is not the evidence but the acceptance criteria of what evidence constitutes proof. The proof is in the pudding. In this case, the pudding is Scripture. Personification is a literary device not suggesting the existence of an actual person. Winter is coming. Do you suppose Jack Frost is a person nipping at your nose?

We’re talking faith/ Spirit here, we’re not talking about theories on going to the moon.

All I see from you with respect, is intellect talk...nothing spiritual whatsoever..

Therefore I believe I am being led to cease discussion with your “own intellect” not meaning to offend, just being truthful and honest in my opinion of you.

On different pages 100%

I love to be fed the word...Praise God!

 

[Ritajanice]

@MA2444

Just my thoughts.

The parable Of The sower.

The seed of faith if planted by God, it will grow into a beautiful tree, the tree of life..

Now, when the Spirit plants that seed, for it to grow, the soil which represents the heart/ spirit ,it first must be fertile for the seed to take root?
In other words God opens the heart to receive his seed, remember Lydia in the word?

God made the soil/ heart fertile to receive the seed of faith,....therefore we are partakers Of the divine nature....our old man will eventually die as our new nature starts to grow in Christ.

We surly can’t have two natures when we are in Christ?
Or do we have 2 natures?

Short commentary.

The old man represents our solidarity with Adam, our old sin nature. It is variously translated as "old man," "old self," "old humanity," "old sinful selves," "old nature," and "old way of life."






Are we still in the flesh, is that ,what is in us ,at war with the Spirit....the flesh wants or desires what is contrary to the Spirit.....

◄ Galatians 5:17 ►
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

New Living Translation
The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions.

English Standard Version
For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

Berean Standard Bible
For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want.

Therefore the Spirit will eventually overcome our flesh...that I believe 100%.....Gods will be done in us, it cannot be thwarted.
Is that making sense?

Short commentary.

Jesus said, “The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.” The flesh is our old, carnal nature. It must be dealt with. Think of it as the weak-willed man within us. Our fallen nature has a side to it that has no character, no resolve, no backbone, and no self-control.

 

[Grailhunter]

2 Corinthians 5:7
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:).../KJV

I watched an interesting video yesterday in which statements were made that Faith is a person, a spirit of the Lord's in His Kingdom. That many dont realize that when scripture says walk by faith, it means literally in faith and belief but also by faith, beside him.

That was very intriguing to me and I've been mulling it over and I think they may have been right! But I dont really know for sure so dont think I'm being dogmatic about it. I wondered if anyone else has ever heard such a thing?

Comments?

Is Faith a person or being? I do not think so.
I had the opportunity to attend a seminar at Cambridge University by a female professor. She had done an in depth study on Faith and the Power thereof.

She had a lot to say and I took notes. Here are some of the talking points.

Take a look at the number of times the word faith is in the Old Testament compared to the New Testament.

In the Old Testament scriptures the word “faith” appears twice. And one pertains to no faith. Then again the word faithful pertaining to obedience to God is about 25 times. And then again faith in the Old Testament is categorically different. As in what can faith do for a person? Does the Old Testament indicate that a miracle can occur because of faith? Could they be saved by faith? Could they go to Heaven because of their faith?
The answer is no. There was no salvation in the Old Testament. Look at the prophecies of the Messiah in the Old Testament. Nothing about faith in the Messiah providing salvation, in that we will go to Heaven. It is a little shocking.

Word Counts: How Many Times Does a Word Appear in the Bible?

On the other hand faith in the New Testament which is about a third of the size of the Old Testament, the word “faith” appears around 246 times and faithful around 27 times. So the question is why? Is the OT faith different than the NT faith? Yes. Faith in the OT is about obedience to God, faith in the NT is about God and you and what can happen if you have faith in Yeshua. You can be saved from Hell and have a place in Heaven. Miracles can happen if you have faith.

Think about it, you have faith and that fact is observed by God and because you have faith a miracle happens. Functionally it is a power. You cannot save yourself, but because you have faith, you are saved. It works the same way for miracles. You have faith and because of that miraculous things happen. You do not have the power to cause them to happen….you initiate them.

Christ described it this way…..if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. Matthew 17:20…..the power of faith that starts with you.

So in the New Testament faith is a power, a power that starts with you. Not that we have any power, but it is a fact that we have faith that causes a divine reaction from Yeshua. In some ways it can be described as a conduit of power because of our relationship with Yeshua.

And a woman who had been suffering from a hemorrhage for twelve years, came up behind Him and touched the fringe of His cloak; for she was saying to herself, “If I only touch His garment, I will get well.”But Jesus turning and seeing her said, “Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well.” At once the woman was made well. Matthew 9:20-22

“your faith has made you well.” Did she have any power to heal herself? No. But she had the power of faith that caused her to be healed through the power of Christ. So we can say and observe the power of faith. Faith is the power of Christianity and faith is the foundation of Christianity and is part of our relationship with the Trinity.

 

[Wrangler]

We’re talking faith/ Spirit here, we’re not talking about theories on going to the moon.

Yea, the object of analysis is different, not the method.

Other than deny it, you really didn’t address IF what you are saying is true why is their all the angst with choosing a spouse, candidate for job, elected office, judge, if their opinions are all the same?

 

[Ritajanice]

@MA2444 .

When I became Born Again, straight away I had the faith to believe , that God would bring me a husband ,all in his timing.

I can’t go into full detail, but, I know/ believe in my heart/ spirit , that my husband is on his way ...God has shown me my hearts desire, that’s all I can share on the matter, hope to be able to share the whole truth of the matter one day.

In Jesus Name!..Amen!

How pleasing to God is walking in faith, trusting and believing Him?

So pleased you started this topic....

Also, have you ever experienced the peace of God in certain situations?

It’s a peace like no other, you just know in your spirit that you are on the right path with God....what does he say, about, be anxious for nothing, ...that took a long time for those words to penetrate my heart.

All in God’s timing, everything for us happens in his perfect timing..imo.

 

[Ritajanice]

◄ Romans 5 ►
Berean Standard Bible Par ▾
The Triumph of Faith
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we havea peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we stand. And we rejoiceb in the hope of the glory of God.

3Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us.

Christ’s Sacrifice for the Ungodly
(John 3:1–21)
6For at just the right time, while we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him! 10For if, when we were enemies of God, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His life! 11Not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Death in Adam, Life in Christ
(Genesis 3:1–7)
12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned. 13For sin was in the world before the law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who did not sin in the way that Adam transgressed. He is a pattern of the One to come.

15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many! 16Again, the gift is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment that followed one sin brought condemnation, but the gift that followed many trespasses brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

18So then, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20The law came in so that the trespass would increase; but where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[MA2444]

Does the Old Testament indicate that a miracle can occur because of faith?

That might be a good question for Isaac! He might say yes because it was him on the chopping block.

Galaitians 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham..../KJV

So it sounds like Abraham broke the curve. He had the Gospel message preached unto him, Abraham believed God, he trusted God. That's having faith in God. Do you have faith? You must be blessed thru Abraham! Abraham may not have understood what Faith is, but he had it because he believed God and trusted Him.

And a woman who had been suffering from a hemorrhage for twelve years, came up behind Him and touched the fringe of His cloak; for she was saying to herself, “If I only touch His garment, I will get well.”But Jesus turning and seeing her said, “Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well.” At once the woman was made well. Matthew 9:20-22

This is a great passage. They were still under the old covenant law. But Jesus had not been crucified yet so the price had not been paid yet, hence, old testament.

And still, that lady had faith and reached into the future for the promise that was coming and grabbed hold of it and held it to her heart! She was kind of like a time traveler that way, lol.. Jesus recognized that as Faith so said to her, your Faith has made you well...

So just because it was old covenant still doesnt mean that Faith didnt exist yet. Are you saying that Faith is a non personified "power" in God's control? I have a hard time accepting that because God is the Creator of Life. God is the God of the Living and not a God of the dead. So Faith could easily be a person. The one that keeps whispering, Trust God...

Nothing personal to the lady who did all that studying and teaching about Faith, I have to be skeptical of the things that women say. Many times, they are illogical.

God is the God of the Living. We are all a part of the body of Christ, right? You may be a part of the hand whereas I may be a part of the foot, Christ is the head (That's code talk for He makes the decisions!)

So you are a finger on His hand. You have a name. What if you were a mere unconscious power in Gods control? No, my friend. Faith is more likely to be a person than a "power". Faith may have power and it may be significant, but the power He has is not him, but an attribute of Him. What his skills and talants are.

As above so below? So we are of the body of Christ, with a name, talants and skills that the Lord has provided for us. Along with our "personality".

If I seem to be stretching the envelope with this idea of Faith being a person it is because I seek to understand the ways and thoughts of God that are so far above mine and yours. (Colossians 3:2)
Besides, all I stretch out is a concept, the Lord stretched out the Heavens. Yeah. Tat's a bit bigger! And it's true that God works in (Twilight Zone) mysterious ways

 

[MA2444]

Objective opinion. Coke is the best selling soft drink in the world.

That's it! Now tell me, what facts make this (Theory/Opinion) Objective?

You stated what you say is an objective opinion, but you didnt really say what it was based on. Will you do that for us, to bolster your position?

I gave what my theory/opinion was based on. Scripture and Strongs Concordance.
So now it's your turn.

 

[MA2444]

@MA2444

Just my thoughts.

The parable Of The sower.

The seed of faith if planted by God, it will grow into a beautiful tree, the tree of life..

Now, when the Spirit plants that seed, for it to grow, the soil which represents the heart/ spirit ,it first must be fertile for the seed to take root?
In other words God opens the heart to receive his seed, remember Lydia in the word?

God made the soil/ heart fertile to receive the seed of faith,....therefore we are partakers Of the divine nature....our old man will eventually die as our new nature starts to grow in Christ.

We surly can’t have two natures when we are in Christ?
Or do we have 2 natures?

Short commentary.

The old man represents our solidarity with Adam, our old sin nature. It is variously translated as "old man," "old self," "old humanity," "old sinful selves," "old nature," and "old way of life."






Are we still in the flesh, is that ,what is in us ,at war with the Spirit....the flesh wants or desires what is contrary to the Spirit.....

◄ Galatians 5:17 ►
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

New Living Translation
The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions.

English Standard Version
For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

Berean Standard Bible
For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want.

Therefore the Spirit will eventually overcome our flesh...that I believe 100%.....Gods will be done in us, it cannot be thwarted.
Is that making sense?

Short commentary.

Jesus said, “The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.” The flesh is our old, carnal nature. It must be dealt with. Think of it as the weak-willed man within us. Our fallen nature has a side to it that has no character, no resolve, no backbone, and no self-control.

The way I figure it,, it's probably very similar to what happened in Genesis. When it came time to create the flora (plants) He didnt create them out right. He commanded the earth to bring for all types of plants onto the earth. So all that was needed for those tall trees to grow had already been out into the soil. Sort of like that.

Every man gets a measure of faith either before he was born on earth or at the same time as they was born? God gave a case of amnesia so we couldnt remember heaven, so how is a man supposed to seek God and to do what is right when there was no seed yet? But pershaps there was of a sort! Man is born with a conscience so you might say, the seed was already there. It just needed to hear the word before it sprouted. Watered so to speak. That's our job I tink, to water it and make it sprout.

The diagrams of a human circulatory system looks like a tree growing. Neural pathways in the brain all look like trees too. Do we think that's an accident? I doubt it.

But our flesh says, no dont water him, water me! Contrary to the spirit always. So you get the two cherokee wolves fighting. Which one wins? The one you feed.. Now Jesus has already won the victory, we have to enfore the victory until He arrives. So we are prudent to identify with our spirit as being "us" and a dominant spirit, he is in charge of what we do. Will we follow our spirit or follow our flesh and soulish nature?

Sometimes when I am fasting and I feel hunger inside of me...I tell him to shut up and sit down or I will add another day to my fasting! And this asserts my spirit over my carnal self so it works. I couldnt believe it! But I did believe it. Follow the spirit, be led by the spirit, pray without ceasing. It's all in there. If we always did what our spirit or conscience wants to do, we would all be Pauls and Moses who were both in the ground until they sprotued.

But it takes focus and being constantly aware of the presence of our spirit and the Holy Spirit inside of us. He is always there inside of everyone. And it's our job to acknowledge Him and to identify with Him...instead of our Intellect (lol) or our flesh. We have to start seeing everything as a spiritual situation. The Holy Spirit points us toward Jesus, and Jesus points us towards the Father. All are one and all are seperate persons with different jobs they do. I believe they have a Brother named, Faith!

 

[christsavedme]

2 Corinthians 5:7
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:).../KJV

I watched an interesting video yesterday in which statements were made that Faith is a person, a spirit of the Lord's in His Kingdom. That many dont realize that when scripture says walk by faith, it means literally in faith and belief but also by faith, beside him.

That was very intriguing to me and I've been mulling it over and I think they may have been right! But I dont really know for sure so dont think I'm being dogmatic about it. I wondered if anyone else has ever heard such a thing?

I watched an interesting video yesterday in which statements were made that Faith is a person, a spirit of the Lord's in His Kingdom. That many dont realize that when scripture says walk by faith, it means literally in faith and belief but also by faith, beside him.

That was very intriguing to me and I've been mulling it over and I think they may have been right! But I dont really know for sure so dont think I'm being dogmatic about it. I wondered if anyone else has ever heard such a thing?

Comments?

Comments?

Thanks for sharing that interesting take on faith. It's certainly a novel way to look at 2 Corinthians 5:7!

As someone who's studied both Church history and psychology, I find this interpretation intriguing. It's not a traditional view, it's an imaginative way to think about faith. Psychologically, personifying abstract concepts can sometimes help people connect with spiritual ideas more deeply.

That said, we should be careful about treating this as definitive without solid theological backing. The Church has always been pretty thorough about interpreting Scripture.

Maybe chat with your priest or a theologian about this? It could lead to some fascinating discussions. Either way, it's great that you're thinking deeply about your faith.