Proof of Rapture before Tribulation
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
i watched and LISTENED to the video = thank you
#1- He did not mention a single "pre-trib" rapture verse from Scripture = because none exist
#2 - He did say to yo the SAME thing i said to you of the EVIL of the doctrine of 'pre-trib' rapture = Do you remember?
#3 - TRUTH = only the Day and Hour is a secret, whereas JESUS and the Apostles and OT Prophets said what MUST happen BEFORE His Second Coming.
#4 - TRUTH = Hebrews 9:28
so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a Second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him. = this little Living stone is eagerly waiting for His Second Coming!!!
#5 - Anyone who says there are multiple Comings of the LORD is lying because of ignorance & unbelief of the Holy Scriptures of TRUTH
#6 - "the fear of man is a snare" , "respect of persons" is a SIN in and amongst 'christians' who honor men before God
#7 - JESUS only speaks TRUTH = Gospel. Matt ch24 is TRUTH = "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation..........I COME"
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MA2444
Well-Known Member
That's how I know that you read your Bible Carnally. You know darn good and well that this is a secret of God, so it isnt spelled out in one verse or to your specifications of how God should have wrote it! Srop trying to control the narrative and let God's Word be the narrative. There are a LOT of clues and talk about the Rapture which to understand you have to put a lot of scriptures together and draw a conclusion (One that doesnt contradict evenone verse of scripture.
Consider this,
Dueteronomy 29:29
29 “The Lord our God has secrets known to no one. We are not accountable for them, but we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us, so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions..../NLT
The Rapture was a big mystery in biblical days. God has secrets and He reveals more and more as time goes on. Do you know this? It is a secret and not even the Angels in Heaven know when and Jesus Himself doesnt even know. So you cant demand that it be shown in one verse! That's between you and God, go ask Him why He didnt write it into one verse!
Even Paul talked about the rapture as a mystery:
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed..../KJV
For the details you pretty much have to read the entirety of scripture...and then put it together and form a conclusion. There are clues all through scripture, some are obvious and some are not! Obvious ones are verses like He comes in the air for His bride, next time, He touches down on the Mt of Olives. At the rapture he comes when we least expect it and no one knows when, at the 2nd coming, He returns 1260 days after the abomination os desolation. There's lots more too.
Do we tear Matthew 24:42-44 out of our Bibles? It says it's by surprise so always be ready. I looked up "Always" in the greek, and it means "Always" So it has to be two different trips to earth. One for His bride, one to put down evil and set up His Millenial Reign.
And Again...it is not in a single verse, but they sure do talk about it a lot in scripture!
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 13:4-8 LITV
4) Love has patience, is kind; love is not envious; love is not vain, is not puffed up;
5) does not behave indecently, does not pursue its own things, is not easily provoked, thinks no evil;
6) does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices in the truth.
7) Love quietly covers all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8) Love never fails . . .
Whenever you want to rejoice in the Truth of God's word, i am here for you.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The only SECRET is the Day and Hour = "no man knows"
If it were a secret how then is it REVEALED to us in the Scriptures??? = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and do not forget Elijah
13But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18Therefore comfort one another with these words.
There is no SECRET rapture = It has been REVEALED by the Holy Spirit thru the Apostles
The only SECRET is the Day and Hour = "no man knows"
Furthermore JESUS says that DAY will not come until AFTER the man of sin = Matthew chapter 24
Apostle Paul = 2 Thess chapter 2
Apostle John = 1 John 2:18-19
"we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us,
so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions"
All who hold to pre-trib doctrine are in disobedience and are against the words of Christ,
the Apostles and the OT prophets.
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You shall never learn.Nor receive instruction. Even from the word of God.
You can't reach those whom God does not intend to understand his words.
Meanwhile,it can be a lesson in the truth of scriptures truth. At least thats my take away from their obstinacy and opposition.
God said natural minds cannot understand.
And there he is. Proving it. And often enough being angry when those who do do not agree with his errors.
Thank God for David. He proves 1 Corinthians 2:14.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
"we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us,
so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions" - Deuteronomy 29:29
How can you obey God when you deny His words? = you'll never learn!!!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The LORD Jesus Christ and His Apostles all say His Coming is AFTER the Tribulation
The carnal mind says: 'pre-trib' rapture
How can you obey God when you deny His words? = you'll never learn!!!
Exactly! The rapture/transformation of those "in Christ" was a musterion, which is something not before revealed, and not able to be known except by revelation, which is now being revealed. It's not like our "mystery", that is, something you have to figure out. The point of "musterion" is that you cannot figure it out. It must be revealed. "I show you a mystery", that is, this thing never before revealed is now being revealed.
The teaching from Paul was not given before, therefore anyone who thinks they are finding ANY rapture passage in the Bible before this is mistaken. That's what "musterion" means.
I've noticed such a disregard for the meanings of words in the Bible in some people, it's no way to find truth!
Much love!
That the nations are gathered shortly after the elect are gathered, and that among those of the nations are ones who will be declared righteous shows that the nations are the nations, both wicked and righteous, and the chosen is Israel, the chosen nation, the elect, exactly like what any of them at the time would tell you these mean.
There was no confusion. God chose the nation of Israel from among the others, so you have the elect and the nations.
Yes, Paul used elect of the church, but that was not the same context, not to the same people. Christians do not suddenly become the chosen nation. That distinction belongs to Israel, the descendants of Jacob. And this is clearly portrayed in Jesus' prophecies. He did not prophesy the rapture of the church in Christ, which would not be revealed until many years later through Paul to gentiles churches.
Jesus prophesied the regathering of Isreal, and the gathering of the nations to be judged, as was prophesied throughout the OT. To force fit this to somehow include the rapture of the church is to ignore the plain meanings of these Scriptures. But, there is a lot of that being done!
Much love!
There is a lot of confusion,I agree.
Many confuse Abraham as being a Hebrew or Jew. He wasn't. He was a gentile.
Also,the do called rapture of God's Elect,when God is not a respecter of persons, is described way before Saul. And,in the Old Testament.
It will never make sense,because it isn't Biblical,that those in Christ will suffer God's wrath upon the world as described in Revelation. Though many try.
Those who do suffer yet will come to believe are the unbelieving Jews. And others,who will have their opportunity to be redeemed.
News don't believe now because God made it so. They shall believe during the wrath. Because this time the Savior they denied will be sought to save them,again.
Very true!! And Abraham is the tree we are grafted into, not Israel. The gentiles are branches, Israel is the natural branch, but Abraham is the tree.
Much love!
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Oh nice, use the scripture I found for you that explains that the rapture is a secret. God has secrets there's no way around it. So you should stop cherry picking scripture to twist it into something else.
29 “The Lord our God has secrets known to no one. We are not accountable for them, but we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us, so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions..../
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
No need to be confused.
Gen 14
13 Then a survivor who had escaped [from the invading forces on the other side of the Jordan] came and told Abram the Hebrew.
Now he was living by the terebinths (oaks) of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol and brother of Aner—they were allies of Abram. 14 When Abram heard that his nephew [Lot] had been captured, he armed and led out his trained men, born in his own house, [numbering] three hundred and eighteen, and went in pursuit as far [north] as Dan.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
YEP
So you guys first tried to say that pre-trib rapture is all throughout the scriptures but then fail to produce even just one verse.
Now you go in the complete opposite direction and say: "It is a secret"
However, TRUTH always prevails, and the Scripture REVEALS the Rapture at His Coming in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
You cannot have it both ways boys.
The ONLY secret is that no-one knows the Day or Hour of His Coming = Simple TRUTH for Children who Believe their FATHER.
By The WAY, i just finished prayer and worship for my Brethren in Christ which includes @marks, @MA2444 @Biblepaige and everyone on here who is SAVED by the Precious Blood of our LORD Jesus Christ.
this is were i am = Ephesians 2:4-10 , 1 Thessalonians 1:10 , Hebrews 9:28, 1 John 3:1-3 , Revelation 1:9
Don't miss out!
Ah! Thank you for posting that!
So then yes he is called a Hebrew, that is, a descendant of Eber, though it remains that Abraham was neither Israelite nor Jew.
Much love!
Was Abraham a Jew or Gentile? - BibleAsk
The question of whether Abraham was a Jew or a Gentile is an intriguing one that touches on the foundations of biblical history, theology, and identity...
bibleask.org
Abram,Abraham,was a Gentile.
Biblical Reference: Genesis 12:1-3 (NKJV) states: “Now the Lord had said to Abram: ‘Get out of your country, from your family and from your father’s house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing.'”
- Jew: The term “Jew” originally referred to the members of the tribe of Judah, one of the twelve tribes of Israel. Over time, especially after the Babylonian Exile, “Jew” came to denote all descendants of Jacob (Israel) and those who followed the Jewish religion, regardless of tribal lineage. The Jewish identity is deeply intertwined with the covenantal relationship between God and the people of Israel, which includes adherence to the Law given to Moses.
- Gentile: A Gentile refers to anyone who is not a Jew. In biblical contexts, this term is often used to denote the nations or peoples outside of the covenant community of Israel. Gentiles were typically associated with the worship of false gods and often lived outside the ethical and religious framework established by God for His people.
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Gen 10Was Abraham a Jew or Gentile? - BibleAsk
The question of whether Abraham was a Jew or a Gentile is an intriguing one that touches on the foundations of biblical history, theology, and identity...
Abram,Abraham,was a Gentile.
Biblical Reference: Genesis 12:1-3 (NKJV) states: “Now the Lord had said to Abram: ‘Get out of your country, from your family and from your father’s house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing.'”
- Jew: The term “Jew” originally referred to the members of the tribe of Judah, one of the twelve tribes of Israel. Over time, especially after the Babylonian Exile, “Jew” came to denote all descendants of Jacob (Israel) and those who followed the Jewish religion, regardless of tribal lineage. The Jewish identity is deeply intertwined with the covenantal relationship between God and the people of Israel, which includes adherence to the Law given to Moses.
- Gentile: A Gentile refers to anyone who is not a Jew. In biblical contexts, this term is often used to denote the nations or peoples outside of the covenant community of Israel. Gentiles were typically associated with the worship of false gods and often lived outside the ethical and religious framework established by God for His people.
Descendants of Noah
21 Also to Shem, the father of all the children of Eber [including the Hebrews], the older brother of Japheth, children were born.
25 Two sons were born to Eber; the name of one was Peleg (division), for [the inhabitants of] the earth were divided in his days;
No division in those days, just 1 family
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