Proof of Rapture before Tribulation

[rebuilder 454]

I am appalled that such basic kindergarten Christianity escapes some believers.

They have no idea that there are spiritual versus carnal believers.
I guess they have sat in churches ( most likely Baptist Churches), where every single sermon is on salvation.
they hear things like "eternal security".
"Once saved always saved."
They are fed that every single Sunday and are now programmed and that's all they know.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Dad QUOTE
"""Yes, it is wise to believe in and accept Jesus and get saved! It is foolish not to. Now if you want to talk about intelligence, or gifts, or education, or wealth, etc there are believers that are quite different. When it comes to the gift of God He gives all who come to Him, it is all the same! There is no male or female or rich or bond or etc for us."""

Wow.
You really need to get a basic knowledge of the Bible.
See, this is what I'm talking about. You just have not been exposed to the word of God. You frame every single dynamic of Christianity into saved versus unsaved.
You have never been taught about the BEMA seat rewards that Christians receive.
It completely escapes you that when anybody, whether it's on Earth or in heaven, or just some game or contest, that the reason that the winner receives the reward, is because they are worthy of that reward.

The Bible frames the Walk of the Christian as a race. And that we compete for a prize. We get crowns in heaven.
I don't know how you can think that everything is the same.
Oh wait ....I do ....it's because you incorrectly frame every single thing in the Bible as saved versus unsaved.
You have no concept of wise versus foolish. You have no concept of worthiness versus unworthy IN THE BIBLE.
YOU ARE PROGRAMMED to immediately transpose all dynamics to "saved vs unsaved"
And throw out any verses that blow holes in Baptist doctrine.
You need to do a ton of research and a ton of studying to get out of that trap of ignorance

 

[dad]

If you want to pretend there are not carnal vs spiritual believers that is your business.

I never said that. God chastens every some He receives. Not just the goodie two shoe types. Where I do not allow you to divide His children is when you damn most of them to the wrath of God and to miss the resurrection due to some supposed sin. Jesus died to save us all who come to Him. He promised to raise us up. The bible says believers dead and alive will be gathered in the air in a moment. You cannot say that means that He actually forsake most of them because they had not quite enough works.

Maybe teach postribbers that running out of oil conclusively tells them they never had any, then tell them Jesus and Paul are incorrect depicting two classes of believers in Rev 4 and 1 Corinthians.

Since we are told they brought NO oil, that is not an issue. You just invent some so that you can say they are believers and leave them out!

All believers are wise and spiritual. Roll eyes.

Jesus did not save us and will not raise us from the dead because we are 'wise and spiritual' He saves those who are not wise and few that are! As for being spiritual, that is usually just a buzz word for being hypocritical and self righteous.

They already believe Jesus is wrong in Matthew's 2 comings,

No. One is the Rapture in the air and the other is His return to earth. Nothing wrong about that

and Revelation 14: 14 is not really Jesus on a cloud with a sickle.)

Yes and also it is the second coming/return TO earth.

It does not matter to you guys what the Bible says.

You offer little of that in your 'torture most saints because they are not as perfect as the rest' made up theory.

QUOTE
"""Oh? Name some foolish believers? Peter? David? Noah? Paul? Steven?

I see! So they would be left out of the Rapture in your demented little theory!

let's see a little list of those clearly identified as believers that are foolish?"""
Where do we start?????
Thousands of solid believers voted for Obama. ( not only foolish, but stupid)

Believers in what? Coke and Satanism?

Thousands/millions Of solid believers voted for Biden.( pure foolishness)

So if there were some saved people that did vote a certain way (and should have known better) you think they should miss the resurrection as punishment!? How merciless and weird.

No such thing as foolish believers?
Peter denied Jesus. According to you, that was wise.

No, believing Jesus was the One was wise. Making mistakes was par for the course. Peter will not be left in the grave at the Rapture, sorry to disappoint you.

Paul rebuked Peter for siding with the Jews.
According to you, that was wise of Peter.

Wise means believing in Jesus, coming to Him. Foolish means not doing so. Now if we want to discuss any degrees of either after that definition, fine. It will have nothing to do with the Rapture.

1 Corinthians is a gold mine of foolish believers.
It even says that some are saved "as Through Fire", they're saved, but their works are burned up.

And we can expect to see them in the Rapture raised from the dead! You do not get to keep the majority of dead people's bodies down in the grave! Nor do you get a vote in us being all Raptured if we are His children! All you get to do is expose your heart here and desire to see most sheep tormented and left behind.

It says their works are wood, hay, and stubble.
According to your post-trib workbook of "Truth" those foolish believers are very wise.

Yes they are! They were believers in Jesus, that is why He chastened them (to death maybe in this case so their spirits would be saved). Who is he that
Now I hate to spoil the theme of your post replying here by including the bible, but here goes

Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 

[dad]

Dad QUOTE
"""Yes, it is wise to believe in and accept Jesus and get saved! It is foolish not to. Now if you want to talk about intelligence, or gifts, or education, or wealth, etc there are believers that are quite different. When it comes to the gift of God He gives all who come to Him, it is all the same! There is no male or female or rich or bond or etc for us."""

Wow.
You really need to get a basic knowledge of the Bible.
See, this is what I'm talking about. You just have not been exposed to the word of God. You frame every single dynamic of Christianity into saved versus unsaved.
You have never been taught about the BEMA seat rewards that Christians receive.

Nonsense, of course I know rewards are based on works. If you stopped casting firebrands long enough and take a breath, you might realize that the resurrection and salvation are not the rewards given at that seat! We get Raptured to get there first of all! How dare you accuse others of a weak grasp of Scripture? Your words betray you

It completely escapes you that when anybody, whether it's on Earth or in heaven, or just some game or contest, that the reason that the winner receives the reward, is because they are worthy of that reward.

It escapes you that salvation along with being raised from the dead is not the reward for works talked about. I have to pint that out to you??!

The Bible frames the Walk of the Christian as a race. And that we compete for a prize. We get crowns in heaven.
I don't know how you can think that everything is the same.

Yes rewards vary. Salvation does not. You try to make being raised from the dead as promised to those that have eternal life contingent upon a works trip.

Oh wait ....I do ....it's because you incorrectly frame every single thing in the Bible as saved versus unsaved.
You have no concept of wise versus foolish.

Yes, when Peter said Jesus was the Christ, Jesus told Him it was revealed to him by God. Therefore it was wise. The foolish man built his house on something other than Jesus. The wise man built on Jesus. That is the quintessential definition of wisdom and foolishness!

You have no concept of worthiness versus unworthy IN THE BIBLE.

Yes Jesus is worthy and grants life to us by His sacrifice. Not by works which we have done. As far as rewards for believers go, that is based on works. It have nothing to do with being worthy to be raised from the dead and have eternal life!

And throw out any verses that blow holes in Baptist doctrine.

You are flailing in the dark here, with weird assumptions based on ignorance. (as if I were a Baptist)

You need to do a ton of research and a ton of studying to get out of that trap of ignorance

False. You need to start over and lose the inbred religious slop you have displayed here.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I never said that. God chastens every some He receives. Not just the goodie two shoe types. Where I do not allow you to divide His children is when you damn most of them to the wrath of God and to miss the resurrection due to some supposed sin. Jesus died to save us all who come to Him. He promised to raise us up. The bible says believers dead and alive will be gathered in the air in a moment. You cannot say that means that He actually forsake most of them because they had not quite enough works.

Since we are told they brought NO oil, that is not an issue. You just invent some so that you can say they are believers and leave them out!

Jesus did not save us and will not raise us from the dead because we are 'wise and spiritual' He saves those who are not wise and few that are! As for being spiritual, that is usually just a buzz word for being hypocritical and self righteous.

No. One is the Rapture in the air and the other is His return to earth. Nothing wrong about that

Yes and also it is the second coming/return TO earth.

You offer little of that in your 'torture most saints because they are not as perfect as the rest' made up theory.

I see! So they would be left out of the Rapture in your demented little theory!

Believers in what? Coke and Satanism?

So if there were some saved people that did vote a certain way (and should have known better) you think they should miss the resurrection as punishment!? How merciless and weird.

No, believing Jesus was the One was wise. Making mistakes was par for the course. Peter will not be left in the grave at the Rapture, sorry to disappoint you.

Wise means believing in Jesus, coming to Him. Foolish means not doing so. Now if we want to discuss any degrees of either after that definition, fine. It will have nothing to do with the Rapture.

And we can expect to see them in the Rapture raised from the dead! You do not get to keep the majority of dead people's bodies down in the grave! Nor do you get a vote in us being all Raptured if we are His children! All you get to do is expose your heart here and desire to see most sheep tormented and left behind.

Yes they are! They were believers in Jesus, that is why He chastened them (to death maybe in this case so their spirits would be saved). Who is he that
Now I hate to spoil the theme of your post replying here by including the bible, but here goes

Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Woah

Take a second look at your claim
"No. One is the Rapture in the air and the other is His return to earth. Nothing wrong about that"
You just exposed the postribber fallacy.
You just admitted to 2 comings.
Yes indeed, there are 2 comings exactly as you stated.
That alone destroys the postribbber doctrine.
Thanks for agreeing.
We do agree there.


QUOTE
"Jesus did not save us and will not raise us from the dead because we are 'wise and spiritual' He saves those who are not wise and few that are! As for being spiritual, that is usually just a buzz word for being hypocritical and self righteous."

Those left behind ARE SAVED.

LOOK, I went to great lengths to show you where you are TRANSPOSING salvation into the rewards dynamic.
Basic knowledge training is wasted on you.

Just cut the following verse from your Bible.
" pray that you ARE COUNTRD WORTHY TO ESCAPE the things about to come upon the world and stand before the Son of man."
Psssst that was to his disciples.( telling his own to pray that. In your deal, you are assuming we need not do that)

Then cut this one out.
"because you have kept the word of my testimony I will also keep you from the hour of Temptation about to come upon the whole world"
ahem...keping them "OUT OF", (THE RAPTURE),is conditional FOR BELIEVERS??? The audacity of Jesus.!!!
(exactly opposite what you are assuming in theory. Your error is in thinking , that praying that ,would make Jesus demented ...as you insist)
That passage is what you would file away as false and demented

Call Him that, and just keep believing that rewards to believers means those not receiving them go to hell.

You are not getting the memo.
In order for you to continue in your error, you are now taking a bizarre position, to try and show me the Bible is wrong, and Jesus is forbidden to reward WORTHY ONES.
instead you make the ENTIRE DYNAMIC one of saved vs unsaved.
10 virgins
All end up in heaven as is VIVIDY declared in the Bible.
Half in the rapture
Half via martyrdom.

I suppose you are unaware of martyrs????
Million in the past.
What about them????
Are they also unsaved?
I suppose you are unaware that almost all the diciples were martyred????

 

[rebuilder 454]

Nonsense, of course I know rewards are based on works. If you stopped casting firebrands long enough and take a breath, you might realize that the resurrection and salvation are not the rewards given at that seat! We get Raptured to get there first of all! How dare you accuse others of a weak grasp of Scripture? Your words betray you

It escapes you that salvation along with being raised from the dead is not the reward for works talked about. I have to pint that out to you??!

Yes rewards vary. Salvation does not. You try to make being raised from the dead as promised to those that have eternal life contingent upon a works trip.

Yes, when Peter said Jesus was the Christ, Jesus told Him it was revealed to him by God. Therefore it was wise. The foolish man built his house on something other than Jesus. The wise man built on Jesus. That is the quintessential definition of wisdom and foolishness!

Yes Jesus is worthy and grants life to us by His sacrifice. Not by works which we have done. As far as rewards for believers go, that is based on works. It have nothing to do with being worthy to be raised from the dead and have eternal life!

You are flailing in the dark here, with weird assumptions based on ignorance. (as if I were a Baptist)

False. You need to start over and lose the inbred religious slop you have displayed here.

QUOTE
"""Nonsense, of course I know rewards are based on works. If you stopped casting firebrands long enough and take a breath, you might realize that the resurrection and salvation are not the rewards given at that seat! We get Raptured to get there first of all! How dare you accuse others of a weak grasp of Scripture? Your words betray you"""
Lol
The 2 escape verses are to believers.

Both passages are a worthy vs unworthy dynamic.
As is the virgins parable.
Go against that dynamic of Jesus.
I will wait.

 

[dad]

Woah

Take a second look at your claim
"No. One is the Rapture in the air and the other is His return to earth. Nothing wrong about that"
You just exposed the postribber fallacy.
You just admitted to 2 comings.

One coming to the earth, seen by all. One in the air.

Yes indeed, there are 2 comings exactly as you stated.
That alone destroys the postribbber doctrine.
Thanks for agreeing.
We do agree there.

No, the second coming of Jesus, the return to earth is not what most think of as the Rapture. There is not, at the return of Christ a gathering in the air and the dead in Christ were already raised at the Rapture. So why call it the rapture also?

QUOTE
"Jesus did not save us and will not raise us from the dead because we are 'wise and spiritual' He saves those who are not wise and few that are! As for being spiritual, that is usually just a buzz word for being hypocritical and self righteous."

Those left behind ARE SAVED.

Do we have anything other than your word for it? The bible does not paint a picture of His saved sheep as one where most of them will not be resurrected?

LOOK, I went to great lengths to show you where you are TRANSPOSING salvation into the rewards dynamic.
Basic knowledge training is wasted on you.

There is no transposing/imposing a works trip onto salvation or the resurrection of the saved. You can go to great efforts to swim to the Bahamas if you like, it won't change that.

Just cut the following verse from your Bible.
" pray that you ARE COUNTRD WORTHY TO ESCAPE the things about to come upon the world and stand before the Son of man."
Psssst that was to his disciples.( telling his own to pray that. In your deal, you are assuming we need not do that)

Having fun conflating again? That chapter and passage was about a certain time. That is repeatedly made clear such as in this verse from that chapter
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The things like signs in the sun and moon, the fleeing when the abomination is seen standing, etc etc.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

No one in ancient history needed to escape those things. And as for the people alive near that time spoken about, how do you think they will be worthy?? By being saved!
John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Then cut this one out.
"because you have kept the word of my testimony I will also keep you from the hour of Temptation about to come upon the whole world"
ahem...keping them "OUT OF", (THE RAPTURE),is conditional FOR BELIEVERS??? The audacity of Jesus.!!!

We actually do not know who the Jews in that group and time were. If they were the 12.000 from each tribe, the firstfruits saved in the last years, well, God promised to protect them in that time! If it was some other largely Jewish group around the time of those last years, that really looked to Jesus and were believers, well, they would get Raptured, so they would be kept from it. Etc. I would not hang a cult theory on one verse, especially when we try to take it as contradicting many other verses!

(exactly opposite what you are assuming in theory. Your error is in thinking , that praying that ,would make Jesus demented ...as you insist)
That passage is what you would file away as false and demented

As explained it would not be Jesus that made any mistake there. Guess who that leaves?

Call Him that, and just keep believing that rewards to believers means those not receiving them go to hell.

Noo one said that and in fact I said repeatedly here rewards for believers are based on works. Be honest. Your problem is the inability to make salvation and resurrection a reward rather than a gift!

You are not getting the memo.
In order for you to continue in your error, you are now taking a bizarre position, to try and show me the Bible is wrong, and Jesus is forbidden to reward WORTHY ONES.
instead you make the ENTIRE DYNAMIC one of saved vs unsaved.

Don't blame me if you still have problems knowing which way is up.

10 virgins
All end up in heaven as is VIVIDY declared in the Bible.

The foolish virgins actually missed the wedding. Now if some folks that were not saved miss the Rapture, and later get saved in the seven years, well great! They can catch the next train so to speak. IN fact we know untold multitudes will be saved in the tribulation era

Half in the rapture
Half via martyrdom.

? There will be many martyrs in that time, that has nothing to do with the gathering of the dead and living believers before that time.

I suppose you are unaware of martyrs????

How silly to try to point out the unconnected obvious as if it propped up your 'dump most believers' theory!

Million in the past.
What about them????

If you are talking about believers killed in the past, well they are the dead in Christ that are raised that fraction of a moment along with the living in the Rapture

Here is free tip for you, try not to present your off tangent and unsupportable pet theories and something that should not be laughed at or that agrees with the bible.

 

[dad]

QUOTE
"""Nonsense, of course I know rewards are based on works. If you stopped casting firebrands long enough and take a breath, you might realize that the resurrection and salvation are not the rewards given at that seat! We get Raptured to get there first of all! How dare you accuse others of a weak grasp of Scripture? Your words betray you"""
Lol
The 2 escape verses are to believers.

Both passages are a worthy vs unworthy dynamic.
As is the virgins parable.
Go against that dynamic of Jesus.
I will wait.

What 'escape verses'? As for the foolish women that could not come with the wise to the feast, the only way they could have been worthy is by the blood of Jesus. Try not to post as if you have a point when you do not and can't even be clear about it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

One coming to the earth, seen by all. One in the air.

No, the second coming of Jesus, the return to earth is not what most think of as the Rapture. There is not, at the return of Christ a gathering in the air and the dead in Christ were already raised at the Rapture. So why call it the rapture also?

Do we have anything other than your word for it? The bible does not paint a picture of His saved sheep as one where most of them will not be resurrected?

There is no transposing/imposing a works trip onto salvation or the resurrection of the saved. You can go to great efforts to swim to the Bahamas if you like, it won't change that.

Having fun conflating again? That chapter and passage was about a certain time. That is repeatedly made clear such as in this verse from that chapter
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The things like signs in the sun and moon, the fleeing when the abomination is seen standing, etc etc.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

No one in ancient history needed to escape those things. And as for the people alive near that time spoken about, how do you think they will be worthy?? By being saved!
John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.



We actually do not know who the Jews in that group and time were. If they were the 12.000 from each tribe, the firstfruits saved in the last years, well, God promised to protect them in that time! If it was some other largely Jewish group around the time of those last years, that really looked to Jesus and were believers, well, they would get Raptured, so they would be kept from it. Etc. I would not hang a cult theory on one verse, especially when we try to take it as contradicting many other verses!

As explained it would not be Jesus that made any mistake there. Guess who that leaves?

Noo one said that and in fact I said repeatedly here rewards for believers are based on works. Be honest. Your problem is the inability to make salvation and resurrection a reward rather than a gift!

Don't blame me if you still have problems knowing which way is up.

The foolish virgins actually missed the wedding. Now if some folks that were not saved miss the Rapture, and later get saved in the seven years, well great! They can catch the next train so to speak. IN fact we know untold multitudes will be saved in the tribulation era

? There will be many martyrs in that time, that has nothing to do with the gathering of the dead and living believers before that time.

How silly to try to point out the unconnected obvious as if it propped up your 'dump most believers' theory!

If you are talking about believers killed in the past, well they are the dead in Christ that are raised that fraction of a moment along with the living in the Rapture

Here is free tip for you, try not to present your off tangent and unsupportable pet theories and something that should not be laughed at or that agrees with the bible.

Quote
"""As explained it would not be Jesus that made any mistake there. Guess who that leaves?"""
You claimed unwittingly Jesus is demented, as you decided to go against his Bible.
Then you did it again.

What 'escape verses'? As for the foolish women that could not come with the wise to the feast, the only way they could have been worthy is by the blood of Jesus. Try not to post as if you have a point when you do not and can't even be clear about it.

"Clear" has never been a factor in your low info resposes.
Pretty sure I did post them
BOTH DIRECTLY BY JESUS.
But you would not profit from them anyway.
You are at a point of offense at every word I say.
Note your entire post is against the bible passages I presented, and is simply an uninformed editorial

How silly to try to point out the unconnected obvious as if it propped up your theory!

Here is free tip for you, try not to present your off tangent and unsupportable pet theories, and try to agree with the bible.
Open it, bring verses, try real hard to get out of the offense mode and debate concept vs concept.

Let's go.
Get a bible open.

 

[rebuilder 454]

QUOTE
"""we have anything other than your word for it? The bible does not paint a picture of His saved sheep as one where most of them will not be resurrected?"""
1) the virgin parable has no mention at all of any Resurrection maybe somebody can say it's implied I don't know but I think you're batting the air with that comment.
2) As far as the five foolish not being saved maybe you can go into a bar and find pure undefiled people, (virgins) that are hanging out with Christians, and sleeping with believers ,that have oil in their lamps (The Holy Spirit), (despite your insistence they didn't), and have light before their lamps went out ( ahem..no unbeliever has light), and they are doing the right thing as far as Waiting on Jesus to come and get them.

That is how bizarre you need that parable perverted, into your unsubstantiated, made up, theory.
Unbelievers with the Holy Spirit.
Ok go with that silly mess.

 

[dad]

Quote
"""As explained it would not be Jesus that made any mistake there. Guess who that leaves?"""
You claimed unwittingly Jesus is demented, as you decided to go against his Bible.
Then you did it again.

Not having Jesus be a schizophrenic who contradicts Himself is not going against the bible in any way.

"Clear" has never been a factor in your low info resposes.
Pretty sure I did post them

Lazy? Or pretending?

BOTH DIRECTLY BY JESUS.
But you would not profit from them anyway.

I do not usually profit from fantasy posts.

You are at a point of offense at every word I say.

Seems about right so far

Note your entire post is against the bible passages I presented, and is simply an uninformed editorial

False. Your comment was uninformed and you avoid bible passages like some bugs avoid light. You see if you post a verse, it gets in the light and we can contrast that with your weird theories.

Let's go.
Get a bible open.

That seems like a challenge. Should we quake?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Not having Jesus be a schizophrenic who contradicts Himself is not going against the bible in any way.

Lazy? Or pretending?

I do not usually profit from fantasy posts.

Seems about right so far

False. Your comment was uninformed and you avoid bible passages like some bugs avoid light. You see if you post a verse, it gets in the light and we can contrast that with your weird theories.

That seems like a challenge. Should we quake?

Lol
No way you can debate me.
It ain't gonna happen.
Glad to do so anytime you get a bible.

Take a concept and start .

Probably not.

 

[dad]

Lol
No way you can debate me.
It ain't gonna happen.
Glad to do so anytime you get a bible.

Take a concept and start .

Probably not.

The concept was the topic. Go ahead, make my day

 

[rebuilder 454]

The concept was the topic. Go ahead, make my day

What does oil represent in the Bible?
Does it ever represent the Holy Spirit.?

Is the white horse coming at the rapture?

 

[rebuilder 454]

The concept was the topic. Go ahead, make my day

I gave you two concepts.
Basic and easy.
Go ahead
Make those concepts apply to your beliefs.

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus said that the gates of hell could not prevail over the church. That does not mean many would not be killed or that there would not be persecution in some areas. Yes we can also interpret that this means the church is safe from death because we have eternal life. But obviously the meaning is special and important to the church. The believers of old before the church also had eternal life by believing Jesus would come one day. So Jesus promising that the forces of hell would never prevail over the church includes a special protection for our existence here on earth, to preach the gospel and etc.

During the tribulation, believers are broken as a power and public group and organization. They will be hunted and killed and not allowed to preach or even buy food etc. If the church were still here at that time the words of Jesus would be false and void.

That proves there has to be a gathering of the church together in the air before that time. It will be new believers who face these things and not the church.

(comment removed)

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

 

[dad]

I gave you two concepts.
Basic and easy.
Go ahead
Make those concepts apply to your beliefs.

Regardless of whether basic and easy apply in your mind to the concept of God dumping most believers an having them miss the resurrection, the idea is still the vile little dream that it is.

 

[dad]

(comment removed)

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Right, the second coming will be like that. Do not try to take away from the words elsewhere that tell us of being gathered in the air with Him. Not should you dare trying to add to the bible by suggesting that only the return to earth of Jesus exists and that the gathering of the dead and living believers before this does not exist.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Regardless of whether basic and easy apply in your mind to the concept of God dumping most believers an having them miss the resurrection, the idea is still the vile little dream that it is.

We can leave it at that.
You have ceased.
Most do.

 

[David in NJ]

Right, the second coming will be like that. Do not try to take away from the words elsewhere that tell us of being gathered in the air with Him. Not should you dare trying to add to the bible by suggesting that only the return to earth of Jesus exists and that the gathering of the dead and living believers before this does not exist.

Not should you dare trying to add to the bible by suggesting that only the return to earth of Jesus exists and that the gathering of the dead and living believers before this does not exist.

Let me ask for clarity: you are saying JESUS has 2 Second Comings which then makes it a Second and a Third Coming?

YES to a 3rd Coming after the pre-trib rapture? or NO?