Is the first resurrection physical or spiritual?

[Stewardofthemystery]

The word “order” means rank or class, as in a military rank. So this verse is saying Christ is ranked the highest (the head) all others are rank lower than that.

1Co 15:23 - But every man in his own order: G5001 Christ the firstfruits;afterward they that are Christ's at hiscoming.

G5001…

τάγμα, ταγματος, τό (τάσσω);
a. properly, that which has been arranged, thing placed in order.



Outline of Biblical Usage

1. that which has been arranged, thing placed in order
2. a series or succession:—order.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

First they were not all Israel many died before there was an Israel

A body resurrection yes but a spiritual resurrection when we believe

The OT saints that believed in the Word of God also believed in Christ because He is the Word of God. They also were sealed by the Holy Spirit, as all the anointed saints are today.

You said at the coming of Christ how many more comings will there be?

This will be the second coming of Christ.

 

[grafted branch]

1Co 15:23 - But every man in his own order: G5001 Christ the firstfruits;afterward they that are Christ's at hiscoming.

G5001…

τάγμα, ταγματος, τό (τάσσω);
a. properly, that which has been arranged, thing placed in order.



Outline of Biblical Usage

1. that which has been arranged, thing placed in order
2. a series or succession:—order.

1 Corinthians 15:23 is the only place in the New Testament where <5001> tagma is found. It is also in 2 Samuel 23:13 in the LXX. In 2 Samuel 23:13 it means a body of soldiers, a corps.

If we claim 1 Corinthians 15:23 is a complete list of all who are resurrected then where do you specifically place the wheat harvest? Didn’t this take place in 70AD?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

If we claim 1 Corinthians 15:23 is a complete list of all who are resurrected then where do you specifically place the wheat harvest? Didn’t this take place in 70AD?

There was no harvest in 70 ad, but it began the countdown to the final harvest at 1335 days (symbolic of time).

If you look at the prophetic law there are 3 ingathering feasts, the feast of unleavened bread/Passover is the first. The second that followed directly after was the feast of the first fruits which ended at Pentecost.

Then began the “new meat” offering which is in reference to the start point of salvation coming to the Gentiles. The last harvest is in the fall, which is signified in the feast of trumpets.

 

[IndianaRob]

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruitS; afterward.

Christ the firstfruitS - Old Testament body of Christ aka the Tabernacle of David aka the Dead in Christ.
They that are Christ's at his coming - New Testament body of Christ aka those that are alive and remain.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God - The resurrection of Christ aka the second coming.

 

[Beebster]

Where's that in the Bible?

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul. (Psa 22:29)

For the living know that they shall die: but THE DEAD know not anything. (Ecc 9:5)

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the SOUL that sinneth, IT SHALL DIE. (Eze 18:4)

 

[Beebster]

Nope. The soul and spirit are united, and they return back to God.

That is an unscriptural opinion.

Because thou wilt not LEAVE my soul in hell (hades), neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah. (Psa 49:15)

What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah. (Psa 89:48)

Only the body dies at what's called the first death.

No that's called heresy. There is no such term as "first death" in scripture. Somebody made that up and you parrot it.

 

[rwb]

Time is eternal, it’s at the end of this world/age that the dead are raised.

Matthew 13:49
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

If time is eternal as you say, why does John write "there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound"?

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[rwb]

Luke 20:34-36​

King James Version​

34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

When man has partaken of Christ, the "first resurrection" they are espoused to Christ. We have become the bride of Christ having no need to marry another. In Christ, the "first resurrection" we HAVE eternal life and can NEVER die, being equal to the angels who are spirit beings. Because the eternal life we have through the Spirit of Christ in us is not of flesh but of His Spirit.

Revelation 21:9 (KJV) And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

 

[ewq1938]

That is an unscriptural opinion.

No, it isn't.

Because thou wilt not LEAVE my soul in hell (hades), neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah. (Psa 49:15)

What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah. (Psa 89:48)

Soul has three definitions.


1: The word soul is an old English term that could be used in place of the word "person" or "human being". Basically if you had a soul you could be called a soul.


2: The word soul can be a reference to the human body.


3: The word soul is also the spiritual part of human beings (it's moral and emotional aspect), and survives death and will wait for a physical body to inhabit again at the resurrection.


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Here we have all the parts that comprise a whole person:

body
soul
spirit


The soul here is definition 3.

No that's called heresy. There is no such term as "first death" in scripture. Somebody made that up and you parrot it.

Don't toss around the word Heresy so lightly, especially when you are misusing it.

Before the second death happens, the unsaved dead will be resurrected back to mortal and physical life. When the bible mentions the second death, it is speaking of a literal death (of body, soul and spirit) with nothing left alive. That means first death is the normal death people experience, which also is a literal death except only the body dies.


The spiritual or figurative death Adam experienced is not related to the first and second deaths (the first physical death and the second physical death) ie: it should not be called the first death because that adds confusion since the first death that a mortal body experiences is not a spiritual death.

1. The first death is death of body ie: when someone dies.

2. The second death is the second time a mortal body dies, the soul and spirit will also die and the fire in the lake will consume all three ie: the entirety of a person.


Spiritual death is a figurative type of death so is not numbered. However this type of death can happen to someone who has not physically died the first death of the body.



First death: human body dies, soul and spirit remain alive.
Second death: human body and soul and spirit die, nothing remains alive.

 

[Biblepaige]

All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul. (Psa 22:29)

That's the song of King David. He's looking toward the future when Christ reigns on earth and everyone who is redeemed in him shall feast regardless of status in this life.

For the living know that they shall die: but THE DEAD know not anything. (Ecc 9:5)

That's because the soul is returned to God. What has the imperishable to do within or with that which is perishable?

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the SOUL that sinneth, IT SHALL DIE. (Eze 18:4)

The soul is from God. It cannot be destroyed as we understand destruction. Though it can be cut off from God.

 

[Beebster]

Before the second death happens, the unsaved dead will be resurrected back to mortal and physical life.

And do you have Chapter and verse to prove this? No because it doesn't exist.

When the bible mentions the second death, it is speaking of a literal death (of body, soul and spirit) with nothing left alive.

Chapter and verse? No, there is none.

That means first death is the normal death people experience, which also is a literal death except only the body dies.

There is no mention of a "first death" in scripture.

The spiritual or figurative death Adam experienced is not related to the first and second deaths (the first physical death and the second physical death) ie: it should not be called the first death because that adds confusion since the first death that a mortal body experiences is not a spiritual death.

That paragraph is confusing. What I will say is the second death certainly is NOT physical.

1. The first death is death of body ie: when someone dies.

Opinion. Show scripture that says that.

2. The second death is the second time a mortal body dies, the soul and spirit will also die and the fire in the lake will consume all three ie: the entirety of a person.

No your mortal soul, not body. Your body goes back to the dust never to return.

Spiritual death is a figurative type of death so is not numbered. However this type of death can happen to someone who has not physically died the first death of the body.

We are all spiritually dead from the minute we are born.

First death: human body dies, soul and spirit remain alive.
Second death: human body and soul and spirit die, nothing remains alive.

Unscriptural and not true.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Well that is strange. it begins with seeing thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgement was given unto them…then “I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God”
They had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither received his mark in their forehead.

They reigned with Christ a thousand years.
How do you see the souls of those beheaded? That stands out to me. “I saw the souls of them beheaded for the witness of Jesus”

Do you think there is any connection to Revelation 6:9-11 ? And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? [11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

So …they are told to rest a little season “until” their fellow servants also and their brothers, that they should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Which is it? The dead lives not again until the thousand years were finished. Yet they reign with Him a thousand years. Are they resting for a little season. Or reigning? Are they waiting for their brothers to be killed for the word and the testimony they hold. Or reigning a thousand years?

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

How can John writing the Revelation of Jesus Christ see the souls of them beheaded? ‘And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,…” Revelation 6:9-11 ? And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Two times it’s mentioned souls slain that are seen…both times in relation to “for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God” “for the word if God, and for the testimony which they held”

Do you have an easy explanation for how he saw the souls of those who were beheaded?

Reminds me of
1 Corinthians 4:8-14 Now you are full, now you are rich, you have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God you did reign, that we also might reign with you. [9] For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. [10] We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but you are strong; you are honourable, but we are despised. [11] Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; [12] And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: [13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day. [14] I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.

 

[Beebster]

That's the song of King David. He's looking toward the future when Christ reigns on earth and everyone who is redeemed in him shall feast regardless of status in this life.

Are you saying because it's "the song of King David" it's not the Word of God?

You missed the whole point. A soul must be kept alive else it DIES.

That's because the soul is returned to God. What has the imperishable to do within or with that which is perishable?

No the soul is not returned to God; the soul is in the state of death which is in Hebrew "sheol" and in Greek "hades."

The dead soul, not the physical body, comes forth from this state of death unto judgment.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth (are they resurrected? No, but they're going to be); they that have done good, unto the resurrection (that's Christ) of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection (that's Christ) of damnation. (Joh 5:28-29)

The soul is from God.

In the absolute sense yes, because everything is from God.
But, God does not breathe a soul into you. He breathes his life giving spirit into your body and THEN you become a living soul. Not an immortal soul but a living soul that will die.

Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, (that's the lifeless body) and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (God's life giving spirit - not soul); and man became a living soul (there is the soul).

The spirit and the soul are not synonymous.

It cannot be destroyed as we understand destruction. Though it can be cut off from God.

Your soul must and will be destroyed, else you cannot be saved.

 

[Beebster]

To me all the parables, types …and also even the bible itself …is flesh first, then Spirit. Even “the Word” was manifest in the flesh and suffered the contradictions of sinners. First there is the Old Testament which is flesh, then the New Testament which is Spirit. Do we see a pattern of what is first, and what comes after? Even the way we read the word. First it (the Bible) presents to us as flesh(confusing)…then when the Spirit comes we hear something other than flesh, hearing His Voice and not man’s(untangling the confusion). Still, that which is first is first…and then that which is after. Even the beginning of Genesis where God said “Let there be Light” the Old Testament is the creation of the light of the stars and the moon and the sun…New Testament Christ is the Light where God says “Let there be Light” “Christ” then we have the god of this world blinds them…to prevent …hinder…the Glorious Light of Christ from shining unto them that they might be saved.

Yes.

So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. (Mat 20:16)

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Even when Jesus said He only does what He sees His Father doing, He only says what His Father says. It first is manifest in the physical where Jesus Christ opened (literally)the eyes of the blind, He let the captives go free(although he sent word to John the Baptist to let John know the captives go free), He healed the sick, gave hearing to the deaf, and yes He raised the dead. (We ignore mourn you sinners, be heavy and humble yourselves and Christ will lift you up.) we ignore “will lift you up” which imo is NOT I’ll lift you up out of a casket but I will lift you up in newness of Life and set you in heavenly places (again not literal) all the inheritance better than lifted up out of casket. If there is not Christ lifting you up in newness of Life …until the casket? Then did we miss the Helper?

Yes, Christ's miracles are just as much a shadow as the OT prophecies.

What is our food?

The Word of God.

 

[ewq1938]

And do you have Chapter and verse to prove this? No because it doesn't exist.

All of Rev 20.

There is no mention of a "first death" in scripture.

*YAWN* This isn't a valid response. The first death is very scriptural and I already explained it. A plain denial isn't good enough.

That paragraph is confusing. What I will say is the second death certainly is NOT physical.

Wrong. It's death of all that makes a person a person which is body, and soul and spirit.

Not reading the rest as it is more of the same knee jerk denials.

 

[ewq1938]

The soul is from God. It cannot be destroyed as we understand destruction. Though it can be cut off from God.

God can destroy a soul.

Matthew 10:28
​

28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[Beebster]

All of Rev 20.

Lazy.

*YAWN* This isn't a valid response.

So is unscriptural opinion.

he first death is very scriptural and I already explained it.

Nope. Never found in scripture. Just another false doctrine.

A plain denial isn't good enough.

Neither is a false witness such as your opinion.

Wrong. It's death of all that makes a person a person which is body, and soul and spirit.

More unscriptural opinion.

Not reading the rest as it is more of the same knee jerk denials.

Don't lie, you read it.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

If time is eternal as you say, why does John write "there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound"?

Time no longer for this world/age.

Luke 20:34-36

King James Version
​

34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

 

[Biblepaige]

God can destroy a soul.

Matthew 10:28​

​

28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

:)