Oddly OSAS
- Thread starter GracePeace
- Start date
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In my view, these irrelevant/non-existent distinctions are made when people try to force "faith alone" into the text, but find verses that contradict that, so then they have to say "well, yes, saved, but not converted", etc.
Taken
Well-Known Member
A person BELIEVING is one thing.
There is NOTHING they have to DO or SAY to anyone.
Their Belief is their own private thoughts.
And “IF” (caveat) they continue to Believe to the day they physically Die…
THEN…at that time…
They SHALL be Saved.
A BELIEVING person WHO….calls out, calls on the Lords Name….AND CONFESSES their Belief “TO HIM”…..
He hears them….
He THEN “searches their Natural spirit (ie their Natural Truth) IN their HEART….
And “IF” (caveat) their CONFESSION of Belief BE TRUE…
** He THEN….does a “series of works”….
Forgives them for having had NOT Believed.
Accepts their BODY as having Been Laid down IN Death, with Him.
Restores their soul, back to “very good” as it was when God gave that body a soul.
Gives them a Circumcised, NEW Heart.
Gives them Gods SEED (ie Christ).
{Gives them Gods SPIRIT of TRUTH (JESUS)
Gives them Gods POWER (Christ) to DWELL IN THEM.}
{“Called BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit”}
Writes the Word of God IN their New Heart.
THAT ^^ does NOT apply to A BELIEVING man who is NOT CONVERTED.
THOSE things WILL APPLY to a BELIEVING MAN…..IF (caveat) he continues believing to the moment of his physical death.
ORDER and WAY…
* CONFESSED Believing man FIRST, (while still bodily ALIVE)
* UN-confessed Believing man who believes to the day of HIS physical death..SECONDLY.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [perfect tense Greek verb, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.
The wording is not - "and you will become (future indicative) partakers of Christ if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, partakers of Christ (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast."
The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers of Christ and of course, the only ones in the end who will be identified as genuine believers/partakers of Christ will have been those who held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end.
What about those faltering Hebrews who depart from God may begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But then later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.
And there is nothing in that passage that would indicate that you can "cease to be a partaker", it's not about that.
Much love!
Nope, "we have become partakers of Christ if we endure until the end" is explained by God's ability to forget righteousness--if you don't persevere, you retroactively never partook, because your righteousness of faith is "forgotten".
Without availing yourself of all the tools in the Biblical toolbox (eg, God forgets righteousness), you'll keep making messes like the one you've made here.
The context does indicate that--sin can harden the heart, and cause people to "fall away" due to the hardening to unbelief. People in the world don't "fall away" from the living God. God's people fall away from Him. And yes that's exactly what the statement means, in context, as explained, but you can't account for any of these things, because, as has been explained to you, you don't acknowledge the plain Biblical fact that God forgets righteousness.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Regarding Salvation........>"falling away from Faith" or "falling from Grace" .. does not mean you've lost your Salvation.
What it means is you dont actually understand it, and because of this your faith is ruined.
A Christian's ruined faith, is a sad situation, but it has no relevance regarding being born again, as you can't stop being born again.
See, if you are born again, then your faith issue, happened after the spiritual birth, so that means your Salvation is secure, but your mind of faith, is become deceived.
So, You can become faith ruined, and a "christian" Forum is a good place for that to happen.
In fact this very Thread is trying to ruin faith, in Real Believers.... and not just this Thread.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Everyone who is born again.........(not the water baptized, hyper religious)....but those who are BORN AGAIN.... have become..
"THE... righteousness of God in Christ".
This means that every born again believer, is "in Christ" and "ONE with God".
God does not forget this, as its completed and eternal.
Matthew 18 (parable of the unforgiving steward) debunks that nonsensical misunderstanding.
It proves God forgets that you had Him as your righteousness (Jer 23:6) if you fall away.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Never use OT parables to try to teach NT "Doctrine of Salvation".
Never try to use OT verses, that are not NT Doctrine, to try to prove that you can lose your salvation.
All that proves, is that you are not a student of the NT, are completely unfamiliar with Paul's Theology.... and you dont understand the Blood Atonement, or the "Gift of Righteousness" that is Salvation.
Listen, Salvation is Jesus.
He is Salvation.
Not your water, not your works, and not your repenting or confessing to try to stay saved, and not your trusting in your behavior as your way to try to earn your way into heaven.
And once a True Believer, is redeemed by the Blood of Jesus, and has received the New Birth...then they have become a "new CREATION, In Christ" as "one with God".
This is not caused by you, nor kept by you, as it ALL of God.
He did it...>He causes it, and its ETERNAL Life.
Salvation is FOREVER, because it is created to be nothing less.
Hmm Jesus says "disciple the nations teaching them to observe all I have commanded you", so it applies to us.
Lol Matthew is in the NT.
Paul agrees with Jesus, and they both teach God forgets righteousness.
You have no answers, just empty assertions.
No thanks.
The result of their apostasy is that they "are counted as having never been saved", which does not necessarily mean they were unsaved anyway. So that comment is a non sequitur i.e. it doesn't address the copious biblical imperatives of believers who fall away.
Bottom line: What the worldly "Oddly" option does is give ppl license to eschew the requirement to walk in righteousness - with its deadly consequences.
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From one point of view, yes, they were saved; from another perspective, no, they were never saved.
Not at all. I don't believe in that.
No doubt, there are make-believers. But they do not represent the entirety of those who do not go on to be with the Lord. Your argument isn't with me; it's with the copious scriptures that describe believers who later fall away.
Yes, this thread is about reconciling all those Scriptures together with all the other Scriptures that seem to say we cannot be lost.
I literally just admitted that, yes, from one perspective, they were "truly" saved (not a false salvation), but, from another, they never were.