Not ALL the physically dead are raised at the same time, the dead in Christ rise FIRST.

[Davy]

Obviously, some wish... for the Bible Scriptures to say something else, instead of just accepting what is written in simplicity. That happens with them because of their listening to men's traditions not written in God's Word. There's too many false teachers in today's Church which God did not call, and did not reveal His Word to them, so they tend to create doctrines about things that God didn't give them to understand. And because not that many brethren actually study their Bible like they are supposed to, they can't tell the difference either.

I know many brethren struggle with what God's Word teaches about the future resurrection, and what Paul showed with what type of body it comes. That struggle I see many have is because of wrongly applying the 'flesh' in their interpretation of these kind of Bible Scriptures where it is not written. The "spiritual body" Apostle Paul taught for the resurrection has nothing to do with this flesh material world body, except with similar outward appearance. It is a body of 'spirit', not material matter, and that is difficult for many to grasp.

For example, the subject of the "second death" in Revelation 20 is not a second death of the flesh body. It is a death of one's spirit with soul cast into the future "lake of fire". When we die in the flesh, we are done with that flesh body; it goes back to the earthly elements where it came from. But our spirit which God gave us, with our soul, goes back to Him (Eccl.12:5-7).

Thusly at the end of this present world, on the day when Jesus comes, God's consuming fire that Peter taught about on that final day of this world when Jesus returns, will burn man's works off this earth. All peoples and nations still alive on earth will be changed into the "spiritual body" type at an instant when that happens, for the "spiritual body" is the body type of the world to come, even for the wicked who will stand in judgment throughout Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect.

1 Cor 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

 

[Davy]

The first resurrection is the resurrection of this first group of the dead because they resurrect first. The rest of the dead have to wait for their resurrection:

"the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" (Rev 20:5)

No, that above interpretation is a tradition from men's doctrines, not the meaning of the Rev.20:5 Scripture about "the dead".

Jesus said in John 5:28-29 that ALL that are in the graves shall hear His voice and come forth, to either the "resurrection of life", or the "resurrection of damnation". That means the wicked dead are resurrected on the day of Christ's future coming.
So any... suggestion that the wicked dead will have to wait to be resurrected after... Christ's "thousand years" reign is a bogus idea from men's doctrines, and is not written.

Thus because Jesus showed ALL THE DEAD ARE RAISED ON THE DAY OF HIS COMING, it means we have to look deeper for the real meaning of that Revelation 20:5 verse about the "dead".

The actual meaning for Rev.20:5 about the "dead" not living again until after the 1,000 years is simply revealed earlier about the idea of the 1st resurrection which is unto eternal Life in Christ Jesus.

Why would God's Word mention about a FIRST resurrection unto eternal life? Why use the ordinal number of "first"? It's because it automatically implies at least one more, a second one. And since the FIRST resurrection is one unto eternal life, then what type would a 2nd resurrection imply? Yeah, that's right, A SECOND RESURRECTION UNTO ETERNAL LIFE.

That is the meaning about the "dead" of Rev.20:5. Those are the spiritually dead souls that will stand in judgment during Christ's Millennial reign with His elect. They include BOTH souls that were still alive in the flesh on the day of Jesus' coming, and also those of the "resurrection of damnation" that are raised on the day of Jesus' coming, for the START of Christ's 1,000 years reign. Some of them will convert to Lord Jesus Christ during that 1,000 years. And when the books are opened after that 1,000 years, the names of some of them will be found in the book of life, and thus their mortal liable to die souls will be made immortal like the saints of the "first resurrection" were made immortal when Jesus returned. This is the implied 'second' resurrection.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

You didn't really address what I said about Revelation 20:6. Do you believe that someone must have part in the first resurrection in order for the second death to have no power over them? That is what I believe that verse indicates and that lines up with my overall view.

Yes you do have to be born again of the Holy Spirit to partake in the first resurrection. But Rev. 20 is talking about the physical resurrection of the dead in Christ. When Paul says the dead in Christ rise first, he is talking about the physical body being dead because the Spirit is Life if you are in Christ.

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

When someone receives the Holy Spirit it is not a done deal just yet, because many were prophesied to fall away from the faith and extinguish the Holy Spirit.

This group is what I call (and scripture) the twice dead. Being they are now spiritually dead again. So if the Holy Spirit departs then they are no longer among those who the “blessed and holy” who are of the first resurrection.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Why did you omit the 28th verse?...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

All will be raised and judged, but not at the same time. The first judgment and resurrection of the dead begins at the house of God.

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Daniel 7:22
Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

The saints are the ones who judge the world…

1 Corinthians 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters

The first resurrection and judgment is to the saints…

Revelation 20:4-5

King James Version

​

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

No no no. There will be no "first physical resurrection" of the Saints at the Second Coming. The dead in Christ are those who ALREADY took part of the First Resurrection in Christ.

2 Timothy 2:15-18

King James Version

​

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[Davy]

All will be raised and judged, but not at the same time. The first judgment and resurrection of the dead begins at the house of God.

You are still denying the John 5:28 verse where Jesus said ALL... in the graves will come forth at the sound of His voice.

So I suggest you go back to those other verses you posted and find out what they are actually saying, instead of your just reading into them something that isn't there.

1 Peter 4:17 is not about the resurrection; doesn't change what Jesus said in John 5:28-29.

Daniel 7:22 doesn't change what Jesus said about all the dead being raised on the day of His coming either.

1 Corinthians 6:2 does not change what Jesus said in John 5:28-29 either.

All you basically did was to just post a few Scriptures treating it like cannon fodder in attempt to fool the unlearned into thinking you know what you're talking about, your trying not to lose face. But you actually did lose face, and would have been better off not responding at all, than to try and use those Scriptures which do not back up your claim.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

". That means the wicked dead are resurrected on the day of Christ's future coming.
So any... suggestion that the wicked dead will have to wait to be resurrected after... Christ's "thousand years" reign is a bogus idea from men's doctrines, and is not written.

If that was the case then ALL the wicked dead would go directly into the lake of fire, or the second death at that time. But that is not what is shown in scripture.

Revelation 20:12-15

King James Version

​

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

The first ones to go into the lake of fire is those who are of the beast and the false prophet spirit, and they are cast alive into the lake fire when Christ returns.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

None of the dead go into the lake of fire until after the thousands years is complete.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes you do have to be born again of the Holy Spirit to partake in the first resurrection. But Rev. 20 is talking about the physical resurrection of the dead in Christ.

I disagree with it talking about the physical resurrection of the dead in Christ and I have explained why several times. You are not addressing my question. Please do so. Again, do you believe that someone must have part in the first resurrection in order for the second death to have no power over them? Yes or no? It seems that your answer would have to be no, but I'd like you to actually answer the question yourself and give a reason for your answer.

When Paul says the dead in Christ rise first, he is talking about the physical body being dead because the Spirit is Life if you are in Christ.

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Of course that's what he is referring to. I'm not denying that. Please pay closer attention to what I'm actually saying. I'm denying that he is referring to the first resurrection there and NOT denying that he is talking about the dead in Christ being physically/bodily resurrected.

Christ's resurrection itself is the first resurrection according to Paul in Acts 26:23 and 1 Cor 15:20. You are taking 1 Thess 4:16 out of context. The context of the dead in Christ rising first is NOT in relation to the order of bodily resurrections, but rather in relation to the order of events related to believers when Jesus comes.

Here is the order of events for believers given by Paul in 1 Thess 4:14-17 after Jesus descends from heaven:

First, the dead in Christ are resurrected.

Next, the dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain are caught up together to meet Christ in the air.

So, that is the context of what Paul was saying when he said the dead in Christ will rise first. Paul made it clear that the dead in Christ (them) which are asleep) and those who are alive and remain will be caught up to the Lord together. That can't happen unless the dead in Christ are bodily resurrected first.

When someone receives the Holy Spirit it is not a done deal just yet, because many were prophesied to fall away from the faith and extinguish the Holy Spirit.

I never said otherwise. What I'm saying has nothing to do with that.

This group is what I call (and scripture) the twice dead. Being they are now spiritually dead again. So if the Holy Spirit departs then they are no longer among those who the “blessed and holy” who are of the first resurrection.

Right.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, that above interpretation is a tradition from men's doctrines, not the meaning of the Rev.20:5 Scripture about "the dead".

Jesus said in John 5:28-29 that ALL that are in the graves shall hear His voice and come forth, to either the "resurrection of life", or the "resurrection of damnation". That means the wicked dead are resurrected on the day of Christ's future coming.
So any... suggestion that the wicked dead will have to wait to be resurrected after... Christ's "thousand years" reign is a bogus idea from men's doctrines, and is not written.

Agree.

Thus because Jesus showed ALL THE DEAD ARE RAISED ON THE DAY OF HIS COMING, it means we have to look deeper for the real meaning of that Revelation 20:5 verse about the "dead".

The actual meaning for Rev.20:5 about the "dead" not living again until after the 1,000 years is simply revealed earlier about the idea of the 1st resurrection which is unto eternal Life in Christ Jesus.

Why would God's Word mention about a FIRST resurrection unto eternal life? Why use the ordinal number of "first"? It's because it automatically implies at least one more, a second one. And since the FIRST resurrection is one unto eternal life, then what type would a 2nd resurrection imply? Yeah, that's right, A SECOND RESURRECTION UNTO ETERNAL LIFE.

That is the meaning about the "dead" of Rev.20:5. Those are the spiritually dead souls that will stand in judgment during Christ's Millennial reign with His elect. They include BOTH souls that were still alive in the flesh on the day of Jesus' coming, and also those of the "resurrection of damnation" that are raised on the day of Jesus' coming, for the START of Christ's 1,000 years reign. Some of them will convert to Lord Jesus Christ during that 1,000 years. And when the books are opened after that 1,000 years, the names of some of them will be found in the book of life, and thus their mortal liable to die souls will be made immortal like the saints of the "first resurrection" were made immortal when Jesus returned. This is the implied 'second' resurrection.

I couldn't disagree more. Any doctrine which says that the wicked/unsaved dead will get another chance at salvation is a doctrine of demons. You are saying that those who are resurrected unto damnation can still be converted and saved. Nonsense! They are said to be resurrected unto damnation because their fate has been sealed. They will be damned, period. Not given another chance. That's ridiculous. They will be cast into the lake of fire.

KJV:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Davy Doctrine of Demons Translation:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this be resurrected and live for another 1,000+ years with another chance at salvation for those who are lost.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

2 Timothy 2:15-18​

​

King James Version​

​

​

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

You have trouble with reading comprehension. He did NOT say that "the resurrection is past already" as it relates to the physical/bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ, so the passage above does NOT apply to what he said. He believes that will happen when Christ comes in the future. He is only saying he doesn't believe that is the first resurrection. He, like me, understands that Christ's resurrection is the first resurrection, and that all believers have spiritually had part in His resurrection for the past almost 2,000 years.

The first resurrection:

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

How people have had part in the first resurrection (Christ's resurrection) for the past almost 2,000 years:

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

 

[TribulationSigns]

2 Timothy 2:15-18​

​

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

You do not rightly divide the Word of Truth here. You tried to post the above verses as an attempt to discredit my position on the first resurrection. Which is not what Paul is talking about here!

I highlighted your quote in red... do you know who Hymenaeus and Philetus are that Paul warned about? They were members of a class of false teachers under the influence of the Sadducean school who did not believe in the resurrection. So this specific error was their claim "that the resurrection has already happened." They were referring to the general resurrection of the dead they believe is over and done with—Nothing to do with my doctrine on Revelation 20:4-5.

And you need to read the rest of the context:

God will declare, "I never knew you!" Even above their protests of having served him, cast out demons, .

2nd Timothy 2:18-20

• "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
• Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
• But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour."

The foundation of the Church is sealed or secure in the truth that God is not mocked. He knows who are truly His building blocks in the Church, and who are just along for the ride. Some of the Covenant Church are precious unto the Lord, and others in that same Church are vessels unto dishonor.

 

[jeffweeder]

Being born again spiritually is not the first physical resurrection.

I know.
It is when believers pass from death to life.

24 “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the person who hears My word [the one who heeds My message], and believes and trusts in Him who sent Me, has (possesses now) eternal life [that is, eternal life actually begins—the believer is transformed], and does not come into judgment and condemnation, but has passed [over] from death into life.

That is what Rev 20 teaches

6 Blessed (happy, prosperous, to be admired) and holy is the person who takes part in the first resurrection; over these the second death [which is eternal separation from God, the lake of fire] has no power or authority, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and they will reign with Him a thousand years.


All who have ever believed partake of the first resurrection and have this assurance/

 

[PinSeeker]

It was taught to me that, upon death, people are immediately judged by Jesus. Is that teaching correct?

No. <smile>

No... The first resurrection as NOTHING to do with physical resurrection.

Well, it does in the sense that the second ~ physical ~ resurrection, because of the occurrence of the first resurrection ~ and spiritual and physical (with Jesus in the New Heaven and New Earth)... exemption from the second death ~ is ensured and certain. <smile>

The first resurrection consists of all the elect, as they are all BORN AGAIN their spiritual dead inherited from Adam and Eve, having been raised up with Christ... any and ALL believers have a part in His First Resurrection.

Well, His resurrection. He is the firstborn, but in the sense not that He was actually physically born first, but that He is preeminent over all of creation, as Paul says in Colossians 1. Just as David was made the firstborn ~ and thus king ~ over Israel (Psalm 89:27).

First Death = Spiritual Death that applies to all men that no longer reconciled with God.

Not "no longer" in the sense that they were and now are not... We are all spiritually dead even from physical birth; this is the initial condition we are all in... because of Adam's sin in Genesis 3... until we who are in Christ are born again of the Spirit.

First Resurrection = Born again in Christ, made alive from spiritual death, applies to all men who are regenerated.

Indeed.

Second Resurrection = Resurrection for the spiritual dead to stand for judgment. All of them whether they have physically dead or alive by the time of Christ's return.

The second resurrection is general and all experience it, but what people are resurrected to differs... either to eternal life (these are the ones who Jesus puts on His right... Matthew 25:31-40) or to judgment (these are the ones who Jesus puts on His left (Matthew 25:41-46).

Second Death = All those people who have not born again and their name not found in the Book of life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Indeed. They will depart, will not enter into the New Heaven and New Earth but go to a place away from the One Who is life, Jesus, and will be immersed for eternity in the judgment of God... <shudder>

Yes you do have to be born again of the Holy Spirit to partake in the first resurrection.

Actually, being born again of the spirit... and "raised us up with Him and seated ...with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" is the first resurrection. And all of us who have experienced it are "blessed and holy..." (to have shared and are sharing) "...in..." (this) "...first resurrection...", as Revelation 20:6 says.

But Rev. 20 is talking about the physical resurrection of the dead in Christ.

There are two resurrections in view in Revelation 20, the first spiritual, in Revelation 20:4-6, and the second physical, after the close of the millennium and Jesus's final defeat of Satan, having just taken place when we get to Revelation 20:11-12.

When Paul says the dead in Christ rise first, he is talking about the physical body being dead because the Spirit is Life if you are in Christ.

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

What Paul is talking about here is that, for believers, there is not a physical death that has taken place, but that we have died unto ourselves and now live to God, in the same sense as he writes in the following two places:

• "For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God" (Romans 6:10).
• "For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God" (Galatians 2:19).

When someone receives the Holy Spirit it is not a done deal just yet...

Ohhhhh... yes it is... As Peter writes:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Peter 1:3-5).​

And Paul writes:

• "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus... we are more than conquerors through Him Who loved us... neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8).
• "...the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29)
• "...He Who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (will, not might; Philippians 1:6)

...many were prophesied to fall away from the faith and extinguish the Holy Spirit.

Ah, but John says of those who do fall away, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us" (1 John 2:19). So, those who fall away, while they may have participated with those in Christ and enjoyed fellowship for a time, were never actually in Christ.

This group is what I call (and scripture) the twice dead. Being they are now spiritually dead again.

Regarding this 'twice,' SOTM, we should understand that in the sense of finality, not an actual second ~ in the sense of multiple occurrences ~ death, either physical or spiritual. To they are "twice dead" in the sense that they have made it outwardly evident, even to other people whom they have come in contact with and taught falsely.

So if the Holy Spirit departs then they are no longer among those who the “blessed and holy” who are of the first resurrection.

Well, again, they never truly had the Spirit; and they never experienced the first resurrection and thus are not sharing in it. And that has become apparent even to us, as John is saying in 1 John 2:19 (cited above).

All will be raised and judged, but not at the same time. The first judgment and resurrection of the dead begins at the house of God.

There is a sense in which we can agree on these things, but a different sense in which we will continue to disagree.

Agreement
Yes, the dead in Christ will be raised first, and then the rest of the dead, who are not in Christ. So in the sense that it is sequential, yes, not at the same time. The same is true of the final Judgment; we see in Matthew 25:31-40 that those on Jesus's right are judged first, and then those on Jesus's left (Matthew 25:42-46) and then depart.

Disagreement
This all takes place in very short order after Jesus's return and final defeat of Satan, and is portrayed (with symbolism, of course) in Revelation 20:11-15. So in that sense, it is one event, a once-and-for-all judgment. Think of it in the sense of a football game. The first and second halves are sequential, of course, and as such, there is a sense ~ or can be anyway ~ in which the first and second halves are two different games, right? But really, it is still one football game, where, in the end, there is a winner and a loser of said game. :) Such is the case with the final Judgment. Yes, as Jesus says:

"an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment" (John 5:28-29; English Standard Version).​

Yes, it will be sequential, as Jesus here indicates and is shown in many places in Scripture, but together one event, as is also very clear; in this passage, what I have bolded above describes the one event, and the rest describes the two differing outcomes, the first for those who have done good and the second for those who have done evil.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[ewq1938]

I know.
It is when believers pass from death to life.

24 “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the person who hears My word [the one who heeds My message], and believes and trusts in Him who sent Me, has (possesses now) eternal life [that is, eternal life actually begins—the believer is transformed], and does not come into judgment and condemnation, but has passed [over] from death into life.

This is the first step, being born again and saved. It ensures a resurrection of life eternal at the second coming.

That is what Rev 20 teaches

6 Blessed (happy, prosperous, to be admired) and holy is the person who takes part in the first resurrection; over these the second death [which is eternal separation from God, the lake of fire] has no power or authority, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and they will reign with Him a thousand years.

This is speaking of that physical resurrection those who were born again shall experience.

Amill merely confuses the two as if they are one, and then denies the physical resurrection Rev 20 is describing.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

There are two resurrections in view in Revelation 20, the first spiritual, in Revelation 20:4-6, and the second physical,

That is where the Amils contradict themselves. They say Jesus is the first resurrection and when each individual is born again they are also spiritually resurrected with him. But the sealing of each individual by the Spirit has been ongoing for a couple of thousand years.

But Revelation 20:4-6 is a single end time event that happens at the last trump at the last day when the dead in Christ rise first and are judged first.

When you say above that Rev. 20:4-6 is “spiritual” you deny that there is a physical resurrection of the dead in Christ at that time, at the last trump at the last day.

This of course is false doctrine.

2 Timothy 2:15-18

King James Version​

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[PinSeeker]

That is where the Amils contradict themselves.

No, John certainly does not contradict himself... <smile>

They say Jesus is the first resurrection and when each individual is born again they are also spiritually resurrected with him.

No, not quite; we who are born again and thus in Christ "share in the first resurrection" (Revelation 20:4-6), which is an aggregate or cumulative description of all believers being born again of the Spirit and raised in Christ individually through God's millennium, which Paul brings down to the individual sense in Ephesians 2:4-6...

"God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus..."​

There's certainly no "contradiction."

...the sealing of each individual by the Spirit has been ongoing for a couple of thousand years.

Well, right, each at his own appointed (by God) time. Sure. Absolutely agreed. See above.

But Revelation 20:4-6 is a single end time event that happens at the last trump at the last day when the dead in Christ rise first and are judged first.

No, you're ~ sorry; no offense intended ~ contradicting yourself here, actually. As I said above, the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 is a cumulative event that happens to individuals as they are raised in Christ, again, each at his/her appointed time, during his/her life on earth, over the course of the millennium (which we are in the midst of now). Even the fact that it is called the "first" resurrection by John irrefutably implies that there is a second. And again, when the scene of the final Judgment opens in Revelation 20:11, we should understand that this second ~ physical ~ resurrection has just taken place.

When you say above that Rev. 20:4-6 is “spiritual” you deny that there is a physical resurrection of the dead in Christ at that time, at the last trump at the last day.

This is a conflation of two very different things. The physical resurrection does not occur at the same time as our rebirth by the Spirit and raising in Christ, which is spiritual. The physical resurrection is the second and happens for all, occurring after the end of this age, upon Jesus's return. And, pending the final Judgment by Christ, which will take place just subsequent to His return and final defeat of Satan, has a different outcome for some as opposed to others. Some will be resurrected to eternal life, but the others will be resurrected to judgment, as Jesus Himself says in John 5:28-29.

This of course is false doctrine.

And this of course is your opinion. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then there is no point in discussing the point over and over again.

​

​

2 Timothy 2:15-18​

​

King James Version​

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15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

What is worth discussing is you falsely accusing me and others of saying that the bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ has already happened when we're not saying that at all. Stop lying!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I know.
It is when believers pass from death to life.

24 “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the person who hears My word [the one who heeds My message], and believes and trusts in Him who sent Me, has (possesses now) eternal life [that is, eternal life actually begins—the believer is transformed], and does not come into judgment and condemnation, but has passed [over] from death into life.

That is what Rev 20 teaches

6 Blessed (happy, prosperous, to be admired) and holy is the person who takes part in the first resurrection; over these the second death [which is eternal separation from God, the lake of fire] has no power or authority, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and they will reign with Him a thousand years.


All who have ever believed partake of the first resurrection and have this assurance/

Amen, Jeff. Premils completely ignore what is indicated in Revelation 20:6. They ignore that the verse teaches us that having part in the first resurrection is a requirement for avoiding the second death. It is NOT the bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ that makes it so that the second death has no power over someone (those alive when Christ comes would be out of luck in that case), it is having part in Christ's resurrection (the first resurrection - Acts 26:23, 1 Cor15:20), by way of going from spiritual death to spiritual life, that makes it so that the second death has no power over us.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is the first step, being born again and saved. It ensures a resurrection of life eternal at the second coming.

Which of those events makes it so that the second death has no power over us? The first one, right? Think about that.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

The physical resurrection does not occur at the same time as our rebirth by the Spirit and raising in Christ, which is spiritual. The physical resurrection is the second and happens for all,

This is the contradiction, you are trying conflate the 2 as one. By saying the first physical resurrection is the really the second physical resurrection you expose the error in that false doctrine.

The dead in Christ rise first, not second. Rev 20:4-6 is talking about a physical resurrection that happens in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump.

These saints that are beheaded were physically dead, but now they live at the first ressurection.

Revelation 20:4-6​

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King James Version​

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4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”