It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 12:12 says that them in heaven, rejoice.

It does elaborate whether or not them in heaven includes the raptured/resurrected saints in that verse.

.....But in Revelation it does indicate time has come for judgment of the (resurrected) dead for the purpose of giving rewards to them, and the prophets, and to the saints (raptured).

In Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

You're putting a spin on that verse because of your doctrinal bias. It is speaking of judging the dead separately from rewarding the prophets and the rest of the saints. The judgment of the dead is described in Revelation 20:11-15. The reward of believers is described in Revelation 21.

 

[rwb]

Except that's not the way it's going to happen, though. You are not factoring everything in that needs to be factored in.

1 Corinthians 15:28 is key. Christ obviously sets foot back on this earth before 1 Corinthians 15:28 is even fulfilled and Luke 19:27, for one, proves it. That verse is still involving death and is meaning after Christ has returned. To return to somewhere means come back to some place someone was already at earlier. In that parable Christ is not returning to the moon nor mars, He's returning to the earth. We know the timing is before 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled the fact Luke 19:27 still involves death, something that will be impossible once 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled. Meaning death will be impossible. It will no longer exist at that point. But I already have a thread going right now pertaining to Luke 19 and this parable in question.

Christ returns to the earth made new again because He departed from the earth as it exists today. All things that are written to be fulfilled when the last/seventh trumpet sounds shall be complete when Christ returns the Second time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I've never been more sober in my life! What's your excuse? Lol. Whatsamatter? You one of those feminist type christians and get offended easily?

Why dont you ever say anything meaningful? To the topic and not about insulting each other and calling each other names?

So, asking if he's "one of those feminist type christians" is not insulting and not a case of name calling?

 

[WPM]

So, asking if he's "one of those feminist type christians" is not insulting and not a case of name calling?

View attachment 50075

Exactly bro. The guy describes himself to a T every time he hurls charges.

 

[WPM]

No man. I asked you a couple questions and you wouldnt answer me. SO why should I answer to you and let you control the narrative? I wont. If you want to argue, WPM's good at it, go argue with him. He's that style too.

More avoidance. That is all you do, along with insults.

 

[David in NJ]

No man. I asked you a couple questions and you wouldnt answer me. SO why should I answer to you and let you control the narrative? I wont. If you want to argue, WPM's good at it, go argue with him. He's that style too.

Your questions were answered in Post 1,096 and 1,113

i believe @WPM is younger then us, since you and i are both the same age.

WPM likes to call me "bro"

@WPM - Yo bro, wuz up!

 

[MA2444]

the lie of pre-trib rapture is 'lawlessness'.

The Law of God/Christ/Holy Spirit is "thou shall NOT lie"

This is a Eternal Law that is binding upon all mankind, Jew & Gentile.

my Brother @The Light, please take note so that you are not tempted to sin by adding/changing God's words.

Does that go for me too?

I think it says twice in the NT (when God repeats something, it is important and He wants us to take notice, right? that we are to be led by the spirit.

Galatians 5:16-18
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.../KJV

I count this as saying it once because it's the same conversation. I've been saying that we are to be led by the Spirit. He is our teacher and guide into all truth, our Comforter and our gateway into a relationship with the Lord Jesus.

And at the same time it says, oh and when you do this you are not under the law. So...?? I dunno, I appreciate your concern for my soul but while I am not perfect, I walk by the Spirit as much as I can, and am getting better at it. Jesus even likes small talk sometimes and that's just super cool to me.

Now before you start warning me about errant evil spirits that speak to me and lead me astray (Lol)....doesnt it say in scripture that he who needs wisdom & understand ask God and He will give it liberally to them?
And doesnt it also say that what Father would give his son a serpent when he asks for a fish? So...it's not evil spirits Brother. Plus, I am content and have loads of peace in my spirit about being led by the Spirit, so I have not blasphemed the Lord or His Spirit.

Oh and another one:
Romans 8:14
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.../KJV

There's another one for you there.

And what's this about lawlessness? WHo? Pretribbers? I'm confused brother. What laws do pretribbers break when they believe in a pre trib rapture? (supposing it turns out to be wrong)?

Mr Prosecuter state your case...
Well this guy was watching for Jesus to come back way way waaayyy earier than anyone thought He needed to. and telling people with scriptures that it is a surprise and they have to be ready to meet the Lord at any time....

So what law was broken? Dont forget the scriptures!

Be ever so CAREFUL when you speak of the Holy Spirit for JESUS says "all manner of sin will be forgiven man except the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit."

the LORD Jesus Christ reiterated this as well in Revelation 22:18-19

Is saying the rapture could be any day, blaspheming the Holy Spirit? If yes, why and how? If no, case closed about blaspheming.

 

[MA2444]

The Narrative is TRUTH

The narrative is supposed to be Truth. That's the point of discussion.

JESUS is the Narrator

Not in this thread He hasnt been! You are. You wont answer questions but you demand I answer your questions or you declare I Default...(LOLOL)

I've been tryig to get the Lord & His Spirit into the conversation, but I seem to getting a wee bit of resistance about that.? I dunno if it's a bad connection or it needs new batteries or what?

The rules for engagement are:
JESUS - John 17:14-19 - "Thy word is Truth Sanctify them in the Truth"
Prayer - "Sanctify them in the Truth"
Scripture - "Thy word is Truth"
Commandment #1 - John 15:12 - “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you."
Commandment #2 - Proverbs 30:5-6 - Do not add to God's words
Admonition & Instruction #1 - 2 Timothy 2:25 - Study to shew thyself approved.....accurately handling the word of Truth.

You cant set the rules for How the Lord's Holy Spirit teaches me or anything like that. How could I agree to your rules of engagement anyway? If I had a question, you wouldnt answer it. If I said I know something because the Holy Spirit taught it to me, then you'd reject it and call me names. I dont get Donations from you. I'm not selling you a book or a CD. I'm no Pastor. I've never been to Semitary (Lol). All I do is speak what I know. What is my personal experience with the Lord and what He has taught me! That's all. And yes, I learned how to hear the Lord's still small voice. But that doesnt make me special, I aint Moses or Elijah. I told you before, I am Nobody! So I really dont care if you believe me or not. That doesnt matter to me. WHat did I say? Dont believe me! Go read it and pray for yourself! You can't tell me that all this peace in my spirit is not real, lol. I know better Brother.

So I dont really recognize any rules of engagement that you set down. Dont hog the narrative from Jesus Brother! Can you, would you, tell me what the Lord has done for you in your life? Where is your hope? Where is your faith based? Tell me a story of a testmonial nature about you and the Lord, please?

 

[MA2444]

i did not read ALL the posts last night and did not recognize this.

But now you have entered into SACRED Ground my Brother, which is my favorite Place when i study Scripture.

Be ever so CAREFUL when you speak of the Holy Spirit for JESUS says "all manner of sin will be forgiven man except the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit."

the LORD Jesus Christ reiterated this as well in Revelation 22:18-19

Post 1096 huh? You did not give direct answers to my questions. I dunno what you mean because you didnt answer nothing. That is the post above.

Your questions were answered in Post 1,096 and 1,113

i believe @WPM is younger then us, since you and i are both the same age.

WPM likes to call me "bro"

@WPM - Yo bro, wuz up!

I'll look at 1113 but I havent read an answer yet. Some very skillful dodging of the questions perhaps, but nothing approaching a direct answer.

Come on, Brother. cant we get Jesus into the conversation?

 

[MA2444]

So, asking if he's "one of those feminist type christians" is not insulting and not a case of name calling?

View attachment 50075

I suppose it is. Not exactly fighting words, but what man can't handle some friendly ribbing from his friends and collegues? What are we a bunch of women?

That was my point. We're on here and he's wanting a conversation, so I am a man I will give him some. So he said something that brought out some wit from me, man to man. He told me earlier that he likes the humor. So what seems to be the problem, Mamm?

Oh wait, I remember you, you are the one that said, how are you 'sposed to know if it's humor or not? I dunno bro, maybe you dont get my humor or his? But pleease dont cry about it. There aint no women in this conversation !

See the little girl? She dont understand either and looks like she's looking for a direction to run! But it's not that bad Brother, I promise. He hasnt offended me and I havent offended him, so could you put your victim card away now please? You can handle this,

Would being able to take a shot at me make you feel better? Lol. Take your best shot Brother and we can all laugh together because you can't offend me. Your just some guy on the internet that we're talking back and forth...?? I mean it too, take a shot at me, I dont mind.

I remember once as a teenager I said something I shouldnt say to some stranger. Smart mouth and all that. And this man how can I say it? He cussed me out...but he didnt. He didnt use a single curse word. His vocabulary was such that he didnt need to. And it was one of the most humilaitng and humbling experiences of my life! That guy just chopped me down!

 

[WPM]

I suppose it is. Not exactly fighting words, but what man can't handle some friendly ribbing from his friends and collegues? What are we a bunch of women?

That was my point. We're on here and he's wanting a conversation, so I am a man I will give him some. So he said something that brought out some wit from me, man to man. He told me earlier that he likes the humor. So what seems to be the problem, Mamm?

Oh wait, I remember you, you are the one that said, how are you 'sposed to know if it's humor or not? I dunno bro, maybe you dont get my humor or his? But pleease dont cry about it. There aint no women in this conversation !

See the little girl? She dont understand either and looks like she's looking for a direction to run! But it's not that bad Brother, I promise. He hasnt offended me and I havent offended him, so could you put your victim card away now please? You can handle this,

Would being able to take a shot at me make you feel better? Lol. Take your best shot Brother and we can all laugh together because you can't offend me. Your just some guy on the internet that we're talking back and forth...?? I mean it too, take a shot at me, I dont mind.

I remember once as a teenager I said something I shouldnt say to some stranger. Smart mouth and all that. And this man how can I say it? He cussed me out...but he didnt. He didnt use a single curse word. His vocabulary was such that he didnt need to. And it was one of the most humilaitng and humbling experiences of my life! That guy just chopped me down!

What are you on?

 

[David in NJ]

Does that go for me too?

I think it says twice in the NT (when God repeats something, it is important and He wants us to take notice, right? that we are to be led by the spirit.

Galatians 5:16-18
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.../KJV

I count this as saying it once because it's the same conversation. I've been saying that we are to be led by the Spirit. He is our teacher and guide into all truth, our Comforter and our gateway into a relationship with the Lord Jesus.

And at the same time it says, oh and when you do this you are not under the law. So...?? I dunno, I appreciate your concern for my soul but while I am not perfect, I walk by the Spirit as much as I can, and am getting better at it. Jesus even likes small talk sometimes and that's just super cool to me.

Now before you start warning me about errant evil spirits that speak to me and lead me astray (Lol)....doesnt it say in scripture that he who needs wisdom & understand ask God and He will give it liberally to them?
And doesnt it also say that what Father would give his son a serpent when he asks for a fish? So...it's not evil spirits Brother. Plus, I am content and have loads of peace in my spirit about being led by the Spirit, so I have not blasphemed the Lord or His Spirit.

Oh and another one:
Romans 8:14
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.../KJV

There's another one for you there.

And what's this about lawlessness? WHo? Pretribbers? I'm confused brother. What laws do pretribbers break when they believe in a pre trib rapture? (supposing it turns out to be wrong)?

Mr Prosecuter state your case...
Well this guy was watching for Jesus to come back way way waaayyy earier than anyone thought He needed to. and telling people with scriptures that it is a surprise and they have to be ready to meet the Lord at any time....

So what law was broken? Dont forget the scriptures!




Is saying the rapture could be any day, blaspheming the Holy Spirit? If yes, why and how? If no, case closed about blaspheming.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.../KJV
This is only speaking of the old covenant law, the one that brings death.

There is the Law of Christ that gives LIFE to us under the New Covenant, by the HOLY SPIRIT.

Jeremiah 31:31 -
Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant
this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the LORD.
I will put My law in their minds
and inscribe it on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
and they will be My people.

Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.
Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

NEW Covenant Apostle John says:
Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous

 

[David in NJ]

Post 1096 huh? You did not give direct answers to my questions. I dunno what you mean because you didnt answer nothing. That is the post above.



I'll look at 1113 but I havent read an answer yet. Some very skillful dodging of the questions perhaps, but nothing approaching a direct answer.

Come on, Brother. cant we get Jesus into the conversation?

Answers to you from Post 1096

#1 - to be led of the Spirit is to be led into TRUTH for the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of TRUTH = John 14:15-18

#2 - If you refuse to answer the 3 simple questions , you DEFAULT and you declare that either you are not able to answer in TRUTH or you do not want to be led by the Holy Spirit into ALL TRUTH

#3 - The Holy Spirit will ONLY agree to "It is written" = John 17:14-19

 

[David in NJ]

The narrative is supposed to be Truth. That's the point of discussion.



Not in this thread He hasnt been! You are. You wont answer questions but you demand I answer your questions or you declare I Default...(LOLOL)

I've been tryig to get the Lord & His Spirit into the conversation, but I seem to getting a wee bit of resistance about that.? I dunno if it's a bad connection or it needs new batteries or what?



You cant set the rules for How the Lord's Holy Spirit teaches me or anything like that. How could I agree to your rules of engagement anyway? If I had a question, you wouldnt answer it. If I said I know something because the Holy Spirit taught it to me, then you'd reject it and call me names. I dont get Donations from you. I'm not selling you a book or a CD. I'm no Pastor. I've never been to Semitary (Lol). All I do is speak what I know. What is my personal experience with the Lord and what He has taught me! That's all. And yes, I learned how to hear the Lord's still small voice. But that doesnt make me special, I aint Moses or Elijah. I told you before, I am Nobody! So I really dont care if you believe me or not. That doesnt matter to me. WHat did I say? Dont believe me! Go read it and pray for yourself! You can't tell me that all this peace in my spirit is not real, lol. I know better Brother.

So I dont really recognize any rules of engagement that you set down. Dont hog the narrative from Jesus Brother! Can you, would you, tell me what the Lord has done for you in your life? Where is your hope? Where is your faith based? Tell me a story of a testmonial nature about you and the Lord, please?

Brother, you are not understanding.

When i said "JESUS is the Narrator" it means HE is the WORD, the TRUTH and the LIFE.

His words are the complete Truth and HE is the Narrator of TRUTH.

 

[David in NJ]

The narrative is supposed to be Truth. That's the point of discussion.

Not in this thread He hasnt been! You are. You wont answer questions but you demand I answer your questions or you declare I Default...(LOLOL)

I've been tryig to get the Lord & His Spirit into the conversation, but I seem to getting a wee bit of resistance about that.? I dunno if it's a bad connection or it needs new batteries or what?

So I dont really recognize any rules of engagement that you set down. Dont hog the narrative from Jesus Brother! Can you, would you, tell me what the Lord has done for you in your life? Where is your hope? Where is your faith based? Tell me a story of a testmonial nature about you and the Lord, please?

I've been tryig to get the Lord & His Spirit into the conversation,

My posts are all about the LORD Jesus Christ, His Word, the Holy Spirit and TRUTH = Post 1096

So I dont really recognize any rules of engagement that you set down

The LORD Himself has laid down the rules of engagement!
Which are in my posts and clearly shown as being from God to us!

Did you not see this in Post 1,113 : JESUS says "God's word is Truth - Sanctify them in your Truth"

Did you know that JESUS said this of Himself and of us:
As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

 

[MA2444]

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.../KJV
This is only speaking of the old covenant law, the one that brings death.

There is the Law of Christ that gives LIFE to us under the New Covenant, by the HOLY SPIRIT.

Jeremiah 31:31 -
Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant
this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the LORD.
I will put My law in their minds
and inscribe it on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
and they will be My people.

Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.
Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

NEW Covenant Apostle John says:
Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous

But that doesnt tell me what law was broken. You did it again, no answer from you.

 

[David in NJ]

But that doesnt tell me what law was broken. You did it again, no answer from you.

OK

Have you never read the Gospel account of JESUS speaking on His law

Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

He said to Him, “Which ones?” (this is the question @MA2444 is asking)

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’
Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven;
and come, follow Me.”

Here is more:

And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

 

[Davidpt]

I suppose it is. Not exactly fighting words, but what man can't handle some friendly ribbing from his friends and collegues? What are we a bunch of women?

That was my point. We're on here and he's wanting a conversation, so I am a man I will give him some. So he said something that brought out some wit from me, man to man. He told me earlier that he likes the humor. So what seems to be the problem, Mamm?

Oh wait, I remember you, you are the one that said, how are you 'sposed to know if it's humor or not? I dunno bro, maybe you dont get my humor or his? But pleease dont cry about it. There aint no women in this conversation !

See the little girl? She dont understand either and looks like she's looking for a direction to run! But it's not that bad Brother, I promise. He hasnt offended me and I havent offended him, so could you put your victim card away now please? You can handle this,

Would being able to take a shot at me make you feel better? Lol. Take your best shot Brother and we can all laugh together because you can't offend me. Your just some guy on the internet that we're talking back and forth...?? I mean it too, take a shot at me, I dont mind.

I remember once as a teenager I said something I shouldnt say to some stranger. Smart mouth and all that. And this man how can I say it? He cussed me out...but he didnt. He didnt use a single curse word. His vocabulary was such that he didnt need to. And it was one of the most humilaitng and humbling experiences of my life! That guy just chopped me down!

FWIW, I understood you all along, in that regard. I have been around your type before and have been your type before. Nothing you said were fighting words. I get where you are coming from and why you said what you said. Some around here need to lighten up and not take everything so personal and serious all the time. Of course though, there are some cases where I can see someone taking things personal and serious, except this is not the case in your case.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

That is a modern Pretrib invention. Like all their speculations, it is found in Jesuit deceit, invented in the early 1800s.

Lazy argument from someone who just got destroyed. Paul wrote 2 Thess. 2 in the first century. Now play more dodge ball.

 

[David in NJ]

Lazy argument from someone who just got destroyed. Paul wrote 2 Thess. 2 in the first century. Now play more dodge ball.

How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?


But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.

“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.