Romans 11:25 - Partially blinded

[Spiritual Israelite]

So why do you think it was a mystery that some Jews were saved and some weren’t? Shouldn’t it have been obvious that that was the case?

I don't think that and never said that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But that’s not what SI was talking about, he said the mystery was a fraction of Jews were saved and the other fraction were not saved, they were blinded.

No, I did not. You have very poor reading comprehension skills. I'm saying that the mystery was that Israel would be blinded in part, not just back then in Paul's day, but also all the way up until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, which I believe has not yet occurred. It wasn't a mystery that some Jews were saved and some were not. I'm not saying that. Please read what I say more carefully.

 

[lforrest]

So in this case, God divinely made ALL Jews blinded before the cross, and allowed some to see Him and accept Him as their Messiah after the resurrection, but still keep many Jews “blinded” for another 2000 years… so, if they are still divinely blinded, then that is not their fault and “ALL Israel will be saved after He removes their blindness.

And that might indicate that God would save His people who kept the faith in worshipping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but we’re divinely kept blinded to Jesus- in this manner it might fit the term “blinded in part.”

I don’t know if the above was clear enough to comment on, but I hope some might cut through the confusion and offer their opinion.

This is my understanding about the meaning of those verses.

 

[CTK]

This is my understanding about the meaning of those verses.

Thank you for your response. This is such a difficult “mystery.”

 

[rwb]

Here’s what seems to be kinda off kilter here. If Paul meant Israel will always and forever be blind in part then why even say “that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in”?

Because Israel in blindness believed that salvation was exclusively for the Jews. Paul speaking to Israel and to us is basically saying, not so fast! Salvation if for whosoever is of faith, whether they are Jew or Gentile. And in fact the blindness in part to Israel of the flesh shall continue until the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no longer because that is when the last Gentile to be saved shall be saved. (Mystery finished Rev 10:7) The mystery hidden of Old, and now revealed through Christ is that the Kingdom of God is not limited to any one nation of the world. Whosoever throughout the world that hears the Gospel proclaimed and believes through the power of the Holy Spirit are all part of the same ONE body of faith, called "the Israel of God." Not for Jews only, but for ALL people of faith in Christ.

Since the advent of Christ, Israel is no different than any other nation of the world. Every single nation upon the earth has the same blindness in part. Because there is no nation in the world where every living soul within that nation has been saved.

 

[rwb]

Well take Ephesians 3:9 for example

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Here mystery is something that was hid from the beginning.

It might help you to better understand the mystery revealed since the advent of Christ, if you look at greater context and other passages that speak of the same mystery.

Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles. This is something new, because in times past the message of the Gospel (coming of Christ the Messiah) had not been sent unto the Gentiles. Until the advent of Christ Israel of Old (ethnic Jews) alone had the Word of God, the Law and the Prophets of Old. It was through these that the coming of a Messiah to redeem them was made known onlt to them. Therefore, throughout the Old Covenant ages, Israel believed the Kingdom of God was only for them, that the coming Messiah would only redeem the biological seeds of Abraham.

Ephesians 3:1-6 (KJV) For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles says the mystery that Gentiles too would be saved through the promised Messiah had been revealed to him. Paul wanted his kinsmen according to the flesh, as well as the Gentiles to have this knowledge in the mystery of Christ. That mystery is "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partaker of his promise in Christ by the Gospel."

In Romans 11 Paul again speaks of the mystery, saying we should not be ignorant of this mystery of Gentiles too belonging to the Kingdom of God through the Gospel. And it is only when the fulness or complete number of Gentiles are grafted into the good olive tree of faith together with Israel of faith, that "all Israel shall be saved."

Romans 11:25-26 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Now we just need to know when the fullness of the Gentiles shall be grafted into the Kingdom of God with Israel of faith through the Gospel.

John says when the seventh angel begins to sound "the mystery of God should be finished." And when the seventh angel begins to sound "that there should be time no longer."

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The blindness in part of Israel shall continue until the mystery of God, that Gentiles of faith shall inherit the Kingdom of God with Israel of faith should be finished. That shall be when the seventh trumpet sounds that time given whereby man MUST be saved should be no longer. The Kingdom of God is now being completed as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth. When the last Gentile to be saved has been born again and entered into the Kingdom of God there won't be more time for saving Israel or any other nations that are all in partial blindness to the Gospel.

Romans 16:25-26 (KJV) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Colossians 1:26-29 (KJV) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

 

[CTK]

Because Israel in blindness believed that salvation was exclusively for the Jews. Paul speaking to Israel and to us is basically saying, not so fast! Salvation if for whosoever is of faith, whether they are Jew or Gentile. And in fact the blindness in part to Israel of the flesh shall continue until the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no longer because that is when the last Gentile to be saved shall be saved. (Mystery finished Rev 10:7) The mystery hidden of Old, and now revealed through Christ is that the Kingdom of God is not limited to any one nation of the world. Whosoever throughout the world that hears the Gospel proclaimed and believes through the power of the Holy Spirit are all part of the same ONE body of faith, called "the Israel of God." Not for Jews only, but for ALL people of faith in Christ.

Since the advent of Christ, Israel is no different than any other nation of the world. Every single nation upon the earth has the same blindness in part. Because there is no nation in the world where every living soul within that nation has been saved.

That is so good! So the same reasons they failed to preach the One true God to the world (before the cross), pride and selfulness, continues to be a barrier to recognizing Jesus as their Messiah?

God had indeed blinded, in part, ALL Israel from recognizing Jesus before the cross (everyone, both Jew and Gentile) were at / in the same position as the other, and it would now be an “individual” choice for each man / woman to obtain salvation as opposed to being a Jew.

Israel failed in their God given mission and now God would reveal Himself individually for ALL those who believed in Jesus and accepted the in dwelling on His Holy Spirit. And this ties in with Paul who had his eyesight blinded by God (divinely) and would also remove that blindness (divinely).

I failed to see this to put in my commentary, although I had unequivocally stated that the Jews will be made to experience their own “Damascus” experience after the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled.

If you would accept it, the 70 weeks of years prophecy was fulfilled- the Jews had completed their parts in restoring the walls, streets, the city, Temple, all the feast days, the Levitical ceremonies, as well as the Sabbatical cycles, BY THE END IF THE 69th week had ended.

This was necessary for the arrival of the Messiah on the first day of the 70th week to begin His ministry and fulfill His God given mission (9:24), and set up His earthly kingdom. But, as a result of the cross, which did not prevent Him from fulfilling this 6 requirements, there would remain 3.5 years of the 490 year prophecy. Again, this had no effect whatsoever on those elements, Jew or Jesus, that had to be fulfilled, but there is ONE thing that must still be completed.

And that has to do with the Jews only. Because the 4th and final Great Jubilee was to come to and end exactly 3.5 years after the cross (it began exactly at the time the prophecy began in 457 BC), the counting of the clock would cease - Israel, as a result of their rejection and crucifixion of their Messiah, would no longer be in good standing with their God. Just as in the earlier 3 Great Jubilee periods, when Israel was not in covenant with their God, the would be punished and that time would not allow the clock to continue. For example, it would take 560 literal years to complete the 3rd Great Jubilee cycle because they would be punished in exile for 70 years in Babylon.

So, as a result of the cross, the Jews, since 457 BC, would have completed exactly 486.5 years of the 490 at the time of the cross or the 3.5 years remaining of the 490.

Thus, God would “make desolate” Him from His people as punishment. This would become known as the “time of the Gentiles. When God deems it over, He will divinely restore their sight just as He did for Paul. He will cause a current day “Damascus” experience for His people for them to complete THEIR last mission on earth. They must complete the 4th and final Great Jubilee BEFORE the Messiah can return.

Therefore, He will remove their blindness and they will mourn for 30 days in sackcloth and ashes. And then they do exactly what Paul had done after His Damascus experience: They will go out into the world preaching the Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus for exactly 3.5 years. This will fulfill / complete the 490 year 4th Great Jubilee cycle, it will bring in the return of Jesus.

Also, when the world witnesses that Israel has accepted Jesus as the Lord and Savior, the world and especially the little horn (papacy) will explode in anger and hate. This will be a time of trouble that has never been seen before.

Israel will preach God’s Word and the Testimony of Jesus ad Paul had, and that looks nothing like today’s Christianity (RCC). Once again, every individual will have to make their own choice - accept the God (Jesus) of their Fathers (Jews), or a false gospel preached over the past 1500 years by the little horn.

This is when we will see father against son, mother against daughter, etc. Just as it was before the cross, salvation does not belong to the Jews because of birth. And now, salvation does not belong to those born into a Christian (RCC) family. The world will turn upside down during this 3.5 years of choice.

This is what is meant in Daniel 11:44-45; ‘news shall trouble him (little horn) from the east and the north and he shall go out with great fury.’ Their Empire is being attacked by the true Word of God through the people (Israel) that God had turned away from for over 2000 years. And in 11:45, it is the same little horn who will plant “his tents” between the seas and the Glorious Land. Meaning, the little horn (RCC) and those who continue to follow him, will still place their church between the seas (all peoples and nations) and the Glorious Land (way to salvation).

The little horn claims the only way to salvation is through their Roman Catholic Church- they have the “keys to the kingdom (Glorious Land).” They, with great fury and hate will do whatever is necessary to stand fight against this Gospel now preached by their true enemies (His people). But they will not succeed and will be destroyed without human hands.

 

[WPM]

The blindness in part is seen in 2 Corinthians 3:13-16.

13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

This blindness ended when the old covenant vanished, and Hebrews 8:13 said it was ready to vanish away, and that was at the time Hebrews was written.



To understand the fullness of the Gentiles, which coincides with the times of the Gentiles, it really needs to be looked at beginning with the times of the Jews.

The Jewish kingdom began at Sinai, when the Shekinah glory dwelt in the Tabernacle and later in Solomon's Temple. This was when the times of the Jews started, time was not based on how old the earth was but based on the reigns of the Jewish leaders at the time.

For example 1 Kings 16:8 In the twenty and sixth year of Asa king of Judah began Elah the son of Baasha to reign over Israel in Tirzah, two years.

Time is based on who is ruling which was an extension of the authority of God. When the Babylonian captivity occurred the Shekinah glory departed the temple and the times of the Jews ended.

After the times of the Jews, Daniel gives us the images of the reigning Gentile powers on earth as animals, which one day would end. The times of the Gentiles started with Babylon and the last act that the Gentiles were prophesied to perform was the sacking of Jerusalem in Daniel 9:26-27, this happened in 70AD. We see the statements such as the fullness of the Gentiles or times of the Gentiles be fulfilled because the Gentiles didn’t fully complete all that they were prophesied to do when Romans was written. Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. The times of the Gentiles came in when the fullness or completion of all things prophesied for them occurred.

We have now come to mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels. Jesus is now reigning and the Shekinah glory is in New Jerusalem as seen in Revelation 21:22-23.

It is interesting to note that the words IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD is sometimes used when expressing a date, nobody says IN THE YEAR OF THE GENTILES.

The mystery is that it is only a small remnant of the once elect nation of physical Israel that are now God's elect. The overwhelming majority are totally blind. They're ignorant. They do not get it. They reject Christ and the cross-work and therefore reject God and eternal life. They belong to the damned. They are unredeemed. They are of their father the devil.

And equally, and amazingly, a people who were previously blind, ignorant, and in darkness, have now been enlightened by the glorious Gospel of Christ and have now been integrated into the good olive tree, to be God's elect today to be one with the great Patriarchs, Moses and the prophets, and all the redeemed from thebeginningoftime.

This was a great mystery to Israel.

 

[grafted branch]

The mystery is that it is only a small remnant of the once elect nation of physical Israel that are now God's elect. The overwhelming majority are totally blind. They're ignorant. They do not get it. They reject Christ and the cross-work and therefore reject God and eternal life. They belong to the damned. They are unredeemed. They are of their father the devil.

In Romans 11:2-4 Paul uses the example of Elias and the seven thousand men that hadn’t bowed the knee to show that at that time a similar situation was happening where there was a remnant according to the election of grace. I don’t think that was a mystery, it was a reoccurring event.

In the old covenant or contract if you will, God had obligations and the Jews had obligations. If a Jew didn’t perform their obligations then it was not a mystery that their relationship with God was broken.

And equally, and amazingly, a people who were previously blind, ignorant, and in darkness, have now been enlightened by the glorious Gospel of Christ and have now been integrated into the good olive tree, to be God's elect today to be one with the great Patriarchs, Moses and the prophets, and all the redeemed from thebeginningoftime.

This was a great mystery to Israel.

Yes, in Ephesians 3:1-6 Paul says it was a mystery that the nations be fellow-heirs and of the same body and partakers of His promise.

However I don’t think that’s was the mystery Paul is referring to in Romans 11:25. I can see how, at first glance, it can be said that the Jews were partially blinded because they didn’t see the mystery that the Gospel would go to the Gentiles. Peter was obviously clueless to this until his vision, and even after he went to the house of Cornelius it seems he still struggled with the idea.

But at some point it was accepted by many as there was a discussion about the Gentiles and an agreement was made that different burdens were placed on the Gentiles than the Jews in Acts 15.

So, if partial blindness was the Gospel going to the Gentiles then the blindness started being removed with Peter, which would mean the statement “blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in” isn’t accurate as blindness in part only remained for a brief period of time while the fullness of the Gentiles didn’t come in.

 

[WPM]

In Romans 11:2-4 Paul uses the example of Elias and the seven thousand men that hadn’t bowed the knee to show that at that time a similar situation was happening where there was a remnant according to the election of grace. I don’t think that was a mystery, it was a reoccurring event.

In the old covenant or contract if you will, God had obligations and the Jews had obligations. If a Jew didn’t perform their obligations then it was not a mystery that their relationship with God was broken.


Yes, in Ephesians 3:1-6 Paul says it was a mystery that the nations be fellow-heirs and of the same body and partakers of His promise.

However I don’t think that’s was the mystery Paul is referring to in Romans 11:25. I can see how, at first glance, it can be said that the Jews were partially blinded because they didn’t see the mystery that the Gospel would go to the Gentiles. Peter was obviously clueless to this until his vision, and even after he went to the house of Cornelius it seems he still struggled with the idea.

But at some point it was accepted by many as there was a discussion about the Gentiles and an agreement was made that different burdens were placed on the Gentiles than the Jews in Acts 15.

So, if partial blindness was the Gospel going to the Gentiles then the blindness started being removed with Peter, which would mean the statement “blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in” isn’t accurate as blindness in part only remained for a brief period of time while the fullness of the Gentiles didn’t come in.

It doesn't matter what you and I think. Christ and the NT writers were always cutting across the in-built racial pride of the Jews trusting in their own flesh. In the OT there was obvious favoritism. That went in the NT era. That is what many never got.

Favor with God can come only through Jesus Christ. He is heaven’s only means of access to God. Acts 4:12 says, “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

This is God’s only way to heaven. Christ is the center-point of salvation. We therefore see that Christ alone is our only way of access to heaven. There is no alternative arrangement pertaining to race or any other distinction. 1 Corinthians 3:11 states, “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”

Of course, Christ is the Rock that the believer stands on. He is the only spiritual foundation for man. Men either build their house upon that Rock or build it upon sand. Sand is self! A house properly built upon the Rock stands firm in the midst of the storm but the house built upon the sand falls apart. 1 Timothy 2:5-6 expressly states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time”

This couldn’t be any clearer! There is no Plan B. There is no back-doors into heaven. There is no alternative salvation. There is no other means of man gaining favor with God! There is no other way to become a child of God. There is no other path to be God’s one of God’s elect.

John the Baptist proclaimed in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

There is nothing vague, ambiguous or complicated here. God only sees those in Christ and those not in Christ. There is also no room for fence-sitting here. If a Jew or Gentile (in the Old Testament or the New Testament) loves the Messiah Christ He is one of God's chosen, if he doesn't he is under the wrath of God. Simple!!! Basically: accept Jesus and God accepts you, reject Him and God rejects you.

Jesus said in John 5:23b-24, “He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

Ok, what does this mean? Simple: those Jews and Gentiles that don’t accept Christ, don’t accept the Father. Christ-rejecting Jews and Gentiles are therefore under condemnation and are of their father the devil.

I John 2:22-23 solemnly asks, “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ (or Messiah)? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”

Q. Does Israel overwhelmingly deny “that Jesus is the Christ” or Messiah?

A. Absolutely. Therefore, Judaism without Christ is a counterfeit religion. It is apostate! Any belief that denies Christ His rightful place as man's sole Redeemer is destined for destruction. Anyone that rejects Christ (1) is antichrist, (2) belongs to Satan, (3) is part of the kingdom of darkness and is (4) bound for the Lake of Fire.

1 John 5:12: “He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”

The teaching of Scripture couldn’t be plainer: Jews who do recognize Christ as Messiah are saved. Jews who do not recognize Christ as Messiah are lost. The only chosen people that God knows and accepts are those that accept His Son. The rest are of their father the devil.

2 John 1:9: “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.”

If a sinner refuses Christ, he refuses the Father. This couldn’t be clearer in Scripture.

Jesus said in Luke 9:48, “whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me.”

So, those that reject Jesus, reject salvation. Those that reject Jesus, reject the Father. Those that reject Jesus, are children of the devil. This is seen throughout the inspired New Testament account.

Jesus said in Matthew 11:6: “blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.”

We don’t need to speculate about what natural Israel currently thinks of Christ.

Jesus said in Matthew 12:30, “He that is not with me is against me.”

There is no neutrality with this Jesus. There is no room for fence-sitting when it comes to Him. You are either for Him or against Him.

Jesus said in John 15:23, “He that hateth me hateth my Father also.”

God does not separate His elect up, He unites them together in Christ. In fact, there is nothing more unbiblical in this new covenant period than trying to divide up the people of God on the grounds of ethnicity. That is spiritual apartheid and runs completely to the New Testament plan of God to bring Jew and Gentile together equally in Christ. The whole mission of Jesus Christ in introducing the new covenant was to unite Jew and Gentile in salvation. Nothing could be clearer in the New Testament!

 

[grafted branch]

It doesn't matter what you and I think. Christ and the NT writers were always cutting across the in-built racial pride of the Jews trusting in their own flesh. In the NT there was obvious favoritism. That went in the NT era. That is what many never got.

Jesus said, in John 10:1, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.” He then goes on to explain, “I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture” (John 10:9).

Favor with God can come only through Jesus Christ. He is heaven’s only means of access to God. Acts 4:12 says, “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

This is God’s only way to heaven. Christ is the center-point of salvation. We therefore see that Christ alone is our only way of access to heaven. There is no alternative arrangement pertaining to race or any other distinction. 1 Corinthians 3:11 states, “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”

Of course, Christ is the Rock that the believer stands on. He is the only spiritual foundation for man. Men either build their house upon that Rock or build it upon sand. Sand is self! A house properly built upon the Rock stands firm in the midst of the storm but the house built upon the sand falls apart. 1 Timothy 2:5-6 expressly states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time”

This couldn’t be any clearer! There is no Plan B. There is no back-doors into heaven. There is no alternative salvation. There is no other means of man gaining favor with God! There is no other way to become a child of God. There is no other path to be God’s one of God’s elect.

John the Baptist proclaimed in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

There is nothing vague, ambiguous or complicated here. God only sees those in Christ and those not in Christ. There is also no room for fence-sitting here. If a Jew or Gentile (in the Old Testament or the New Testament) loves the Messiah Christ He is one of God's chosen, if he doesn't he is under the wrath of God. Simple!!! Basically: accept Jesus and God accepts you, reject Him and God rejects you.

Jesus said in John 5:23b-24, “He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

Ok, what does this mean? Simple: those Jews and Gentiles that don’t accept Christ, don’t accept the Father. Christ-rejecting Jews and Gentiles are therefore under condemnation and are of their father the devil.

I John 2:22-23 solemnly asks, “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ (or Messiah)? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”

Q. Does Israel overwhelmingly deny “that Jesus is the Christ” or Messiah?

A. Absolutely. Therefore, Judaism without Christ is a counterfeit religion. It is apostate! Any belief that denies Christ His rightful place as man's sole Redeemer is destined for destruction. Anyone that rejects Christ (1) is antichrist, (2) belongs to Satan, (3) is part of the kingdom of darkness and is (4) bound for the Lake of Fire.

1 John 5:12: “He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”

The teaching of Scripture couldn’t be plainer: Jews who do recognize Christ as Messiah are saved. Jews who do not recognize Christ as Messiah are lost. The only chosen people that God knows and accepts are those that accept His Son. The rest are of their father the devil.

2 John 1:9: “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.”

If a sinner refuses Christ, he refuses the Father. This couldn’t be clearer in Scripture.

Jesus said in Luke 9:48, “whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me.”

So, those that reject Jesus, reject salvation. Those that reject Jesus, reject the Father. Those that reject Jesus, are children of the devil. This is seen throughout the inspired New Testament account.

Jesus said in Matthew 11:6: “blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.”

We don’t need to speculate about what natural Israel currently thinks of Christ.

Jesus said in Matthew 12:30, “He that is not with me is against me.”

There is no neutrality with this Jesus. There is no room for fence-sitting when it comes to Him. You are either for Him or against Him.

Jesus said in John 15:23, “He that hateth me hateth my Father also.”

God does not separate His elect up, He unites them together in Christ. In fact, there is nothing more unbiblical in this new covenant period than trying to divide up the people of God on the grounds of ethnicity. That is spiritual apartheid and runs completely to the New Testament plan of God to bring Jew and Gentile together equally in Christ. The whole mission of Jesus Christ in introducing the new covenant was to unite Jew and Gentile in salvation. Nothing could be clearer in the New Testament!

Ok, I agree with what you’re saying but maybe I view the covenants a little differently.

The old covenant required both God and Israel to perform obligations or tasks according to the covenant (agreement). Israel didn’t or really couldn’t perform their end of the agreement, which made the old covenant ultimately unachievable.

The new covenant is a one sided covenant in which God or Jesus performs the tasks that make the covenant achievable and He did complete those tasks.

When it comes to free will vs election, the old covenant which required our free will to satisfy its terms, shows the complete failure of our free will and that our free will is not reliable.

After the cross the burden of the old covenant was still being observed by the Jews, while the Gentiles had a different burden, this seemed good to the Holy Spirit in Acts 15:28. Since the old covenant required a persons free will, this is at least part of the vail that or blindness that was happening during the first century.

 

[CTK]

Ok, I agree with what you’re saying but maybe I view the covenants a little differently.

The old covenant required both God and Israel to perform obligations or tasks according to the covenant (agreement). Israel didn’t or really couldn’t perform their end of the agreement, which made the old covenant ultimately unachievable.

The new covenant is a one sided covenant in which God or Jesus performs the tasks that make the covenant achievable and He did complete those tasks.

When it comes to free will vs election, the old covenant which required our free will to satisfy its terms, shows the complete failure of our free will and that our free will is not reliable.

After the cross the burden of the old covenant was still being observed by the Jews, while the Gentiles had a different burden, this seemed good to the Holy Spirit in Acts 15:28. Since the old covenant required a persons free will, this is at least part of the vail that or blindness that was happening during the first century.

The old covenent required the Jews to obey and honor the Levitical ceremonies, sacrifices, offerings, etc. It they kept His laws and commands, their sin would be forgiven - until the next Day of Atonement.

The new covenant requires the Jews and Gentiles to also accept the One true God but if they believe in Jesus, then He will send His Holy Spirit to give us unlimited power to succeed in His ways. But whether it is the old or the new covenant, we still must make that choice to believie and accept the One true God.... He has given us better way to accomplish salvation. Everything has moved from the external to the internal, from the corporate to the individual, from the external Shekinah Glory to the internal Holy Spirit.....

 

[grafted branch]

The old covenent required the Jews to obey and honor the Levitical ceremonies, sacrifices, offerings, etc. It they kept His laws and commands, their sin would be forgiven - until the next Day of Atonement.

The new covenant requires the Jews and Gentiles to also accept the One true God but if they believe in Jesus, then He will send His Holy Spirit to give us unlimited power to succeed in His ways. But whether it is the old or the new covenant, we still must make that choice to believie and accept the One true God.... He has given us better way to accomplish salvation. Everything has moved from the external to the internal, from the corporate to the individual, from the external Shekinah Glory to the internal Holy Spirit.....

The new covenant went into force after Jesus was crucified yet many thousands of Jews remained zealous for the law while believing in Jesus according to Acts 21:20.

What are your thoughts on why the Jews maintained the old covenant burdens, while the Gentiles were not under those burdens, which seemed good to the Holy Spirit in Acts 15:28-29?

 

[CTK]

The new covenant went into force after Jesus was crucified yet many thousands of Jews remained zealous for the law while believing in Jesus according to Acts 21:20.

What are your thoughts on why the Jews maintained the old covenant burdens, while the Gentiles were not under those burdens, which seemed good to the Holy Spirit in Acts 15:28-29?

Well, they have been keeping God’s laws, commandments and Levitical ceremonies and practices for 1500 years. And when reading the time after the cross, is was quite difficult for them to understand what was “done away” with and what may be kept.
Now many Christians today contend the “law” (the 10 Commandments) were also “done away” with…. Not just the ceremonial practices and commands. So, it is not difficult to see just how much confusion there was among them… There was no set of rules telling them what would continue and what was done away with.

The moral laws were never designed to be “done away” with or “fulfilled” by Jesus. But the ceremonial laws and practices were a type and shadow of the coming Messiah. The Temple, the Sanctuary, the offerings and sacrifices pointed to the Messiah. They all were completely destroyed by the Babylonians, but God would restore everything before He arrived on the first day or the 70th week. It is because they were never allowed to be “permanently” destroyed- but they were to be “permanently” fulfilled by the Messiah. God’s 10 commandments can never be destroyed, but will remain until the end of time.

 

[grafted branch]

Well, they have been keeping God’s laws, commandments and Levitical ceremonies and practices for 1500 years. And when reading the time after the cross, is was quite difficult for them to understand what was “done away” with and what may be kept.
Now many Christians today contend the “law” (the 10 Commandments) were also “done away” with…. Not just the ceremonial practices and commands. So, it is not difficult to see just how much confusion there was among them… There was no set of rules telling them what would continue and what was done away with.

The moral laws were never designed to be “done away” with or “fulfilled” by Jesus. But the ceremonial laws and practices were a type and shadow of the coming Messiah. The Temple, the Sanctuary, the offerings and sacrifices pointed to the Messiah. They all were completely destroyed by the Babylonians, but God would restore everything before He arrived on the first day or the 70th week. It is because they were never allowed to be “permanently” destroyed- but they were to be “permanently” fulfilled by the Messiah. God’s 10 commandments can never be destroyed, but will remain until the end of time.

Ok, that difficulty in understanding that the ceremonies were done away with can be considered blindness. Partial blindness could be considered believing in Jesus but continuing the ceremonial practices due to a lack of understanding.

That is exactly what we see in the many thousands of Jews who believed but were zealous for the law in Acts 21:20. The ceremonial practices ended in 70AD which was also, according to Luke 21:22, when all things written were fulfilled, which agrees with the idea that the fullness of the Gentiles comes in when the Gentiles fulfill what is prophesied for them.

This also meshes very well with 2 Corinthians 3:14-16 where we see the reading of the Old Testament is a vail which blinds the mind. I have yet to see any other view on this corroborate all these verses. The other views tend to make everything an isolated event.

 

[rwb]

The new covenant went into force after Jesus was crucified yet many thousands of Jews remained zealous for the law while believing in Jesus according to Acts 21:20.

What are your thoughts on why the Jews maintained the old covenant burdens, while the Gentiles were not under those burdens, which seemed good to the Holy Spirit in Acts 15:28-29?

Those Jews of Old who turned to Christ when He came, although knowing that by His death Christ fulfilled all that was required according to the Law. Even Paul continued to keep the Law (at least partially). He says that to the Jew he became a Jew, that he might win some of them to Christ.

The Laws continues to be a stumbling stone for Orthodox Jews still now. Which is indeed very sad since according to Scripture, before the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD, the new covenant made the first covenant old, and ready to vanish away. But as long as the tabernacle (Temple) was still standing, a figure of that time, the High Priests continued to make sacrifices and offerings there.

Hebrews 8:13 (KJV) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9:8-10 (KJV) The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

 

[grafted branch]

The Laws continues to be a stumbling stone for Orthodox Jews still now. Which is indeed very sad since according to Scripture, before the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD, the new covenant made the first covenant old, and ready to vanish away.

Do you think the old covenant vanished or do you think it is still around and hasn’t vanished yet?

 

[rwb]

Oh my. Their disobedience has led to mercy for us Gentiles; think about what this partial blindness has done. They may also receive mercy for their disobedience on account of God's mercy to us. We are not told how that's going to play out for individuals; we are told to use this as a guide to our mindset. And we are told very specifically in verse 20 not to become arrogant, which historically we have violated all too many times.

Just as Gentiles, being foreign to the mercies of God through Christ, received mercy through the Gospel first proclaimed to them by the Jews, so too those of Israel, then/now in blindness of the mercy that comes through Christ can also turn to the merciful Christ for everlasting life as Gentiles too now proclaim the Gospel to ALL people.

Romans 11:30-31 (KJV) For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

 

[rwb]

Do you think the old covenant vanished or do you think it is still around and hasn’t vanished yet?

It has vanished for all who turn to Christ for everlasting life. Why would one turn again to the repetitive Old Covenant after Christ the true High Priest has come and fulfilled all that the Law demanded?

 

[grafted branch]

It has vanished for all who turn to Christ for everlasting life. Why would one turn again to the repetitive Old Covenant after Christ the true High Priest has come and fulfilled all that the Law demanded?

Well, how can partial blindness be talking about full blindness on only a part of the Jews?

We have the Acts 21:20 many thousands of Jews who were both zealous for the law and believed. Were they in the partially blinded group or in the non-blinded group?