Romans 11:25 - Partially blinded

[CTK]

Hey CTK, here’s something that might be linked to what your looking at happening prior to the cross. When Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist He received the Holy Spirit. When Jesus died on the cross He asked why hast thou forsaken me.

I would say the Holy Spirit left Jesus at some point prior to His death. Have you looked at when possibly the Holy Spirit left Jesus? Are there any verses that might show this

Yes I have, and that is a great point and I am sure you will read about it in the commentary. This ties way back to the creation of Adam in Genesis 2:7.....


9:24f-Bring in everlasting righteousness

Daniel had recorded the three types of sin in 9:24: c, d, and e. Man has been guilty of these since the fall of Adam. As a result of his sin, Adam (man) was removed from the Garden. His sinful nature could not be found in His presence. There is no individual, organization, church denomination, practice, or society that has been or could approach the definition of righteousness. We might define this enigmatic term in one of two ways: In a worldly manner, it might be termed the quality of being morally true. Others can see our actions, thoughts, and behavior. It applies to our personal relationships as well as the myriad societal relationships we travel through each day, however, there is certainly no righteousness quality to be found in there; we might as well reference the golden rule.

When we delve into the spiritual dimension of righteousness, it takes on a deeper significance and requires a different perspective. In this context, righteousness is not merely about our outward actions or moral behavior, but it encompasses being in right alignment with God's standards, His will, and His character. It implies living in harmony with His divine purpose and reflecting His holiness in our thoughts, attitudes, and actions. And the only relationship we can possibly have with God is one of spiritual righteousness. This is on His terms, not ours. And since the fall, mankind has lost that spirit, that righteousness, and that holiness that was originally breathed into Adam at the time of his creation. In Genesis 2:7, we have the formula for how God created Adam as a living soul.

7And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

There are only two components that made Adam: dust from the ground and God breathing His Spirit into that dust. That was it. A+B=C. C represents the living soul. The living soul is not one of a three-part being that stands alone or exists without A or B. If either A or B is removed, there is no more C; It does not fly away somewhere; it does not go up or down for eternity. It simply means he or she is no longer a living soul (C). Further, B is or was not "air" that God breathed into Adam to jump-start his existence. It is the result of this divine interaction. This union sets humanity apart from the rest of creation and reflects our special status as beings made in the image and likeness of God. God had placed (breathed) His righteousness, His holiness, His Spirit within Adam.

Adam's expulsion from the Garden of Eden following his disobedience illustrates the profound consequences of sin disrupting this divine-human relationship. Sin introduced a separation between humanity and God, tarnishing the purity and righteousness originally bestowed upon Adam. The expulsion symbolizes not only physical removal from the Garden but also a spiritual estrangement from God's presence. Once again, Adam did not have his own righteousness. It was God’s holiness that returned to Him, not the holiness or righteousness of Adam; there was / is no other place outside of God where His holiness was meant to be, or can be found.

And this is exactly what God’s plan of salvation is all about: how will He get His holiness, His righteousness, His Holy Spirit back into us once again so we can be in His presence.

When Adam sinned and disobeyed God, the consequences were not immediate physical death but rather a spiritual separation from God. Adam, though still physically alive, was spiritually dead or separated from God's presence. This spiritual death introduced a state of spiritual darkness and alienation from God's righteousness and holiness. This is exactly what happened to the Jews who rejected and crucified their Messiah, Jesus. This abominable act would cause God to make desolate their spiritual relationship for the next 2000 years (time of the Gentiles). God's plan of salvation, fulfilled through Jesus Christ, aims to reconcile humanity to Himself and restore the broken relationship caused by sin. Through faith in Christ, individuals are reconciled to God and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, who dwells within them and empowers them to live in accordance with God's righteousness and holiness. Ultimately, the restoration of God's righteousness and holiness within believers enables them to experience true spiritual life and communion with God, both in the present age and for eternity.

Everyone born after Adam (outside the Garden) is a living being, not a living soul.

Consequently, we do not have His Spirit, His holiness, or His righteousness within us. Therefore, there is nothing that moves on after we die. Our body goes into the ground. The giving of the Torah, with its sacrificial rituals, served as a temporary means of reconciliation between God and His people. These rituals were a foreshadowing of the ultimate sacrifice that Jesus would make on the cross, bringing everlasting forgiveness and restoration to all who believe. Through the Holy Spirit, believers receive the assurance of God's presence and the power to live transformed lives. God would send His Holy Spirit to the Jews on Pentecost, symbolizing the breathing back of His spirit once again into man. This was God’s way of restoring His righteousness and holiness within us—already, but not yet. It must be restored in man before we are able to be with God, but it will only be consummated or perfected at His second coming. His entire plan of salvation aims to restore each and every one of us to the precise state in which He originally created Adam.

Just before Jesus died, He turned to His Father and said in Luke 23:46,

46And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit. Having said this, He breathed His last.

This final statement from Jesus not only echoed the prayer of distress and trust in His God expressed by David in Psalm 31:5, but it also revealed that Jesus had to relinquish His Holy Spirit to God because He had taken on the sin of the world. Sin and God’s Holy Spirit—given to Him by God on the day of His anointing at His baptism—could not coexist. However, God would restore His Holy Spirit within Jesus on the day of His resurrection. This symbolizes the return of the Holy Spirit to dwell within humanity at His second coming, enabling us to be in God's presence once again. When God beholds His people at the end, He will not see our sin. Instead, we will be clothed in His righteousness. As stated in Isaiah 61:10 and in Titus 3:4-7,

10I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom deck himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Righteousness or holiness will not be attained on this side of heaven. Good works and treating our fellow humans with dignity and care can never reach the heights of righteousness. It is an attribute that solely belongs to God, the lawgiver, and is reflected in His laws. If He desires to infuse His righteousness within us, it remains His righteousness and His gift to us. No individual can be justified by their own works apart from God’s ordinance. Only God has this righteousness to impart; it cannot be purchased, earned, worked for, or acquired in any manner. It is beyond the capability of humanity to generate any form of righteousness, and despite our best intentions, actions, and deeds, all our works are akin to filthy rags. In Isaiah 64:6, he writes,

6But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousness’s are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind,

Only the righteousness of Christ (not our own) will enter His kingdom.

 

[grafted branch]

Yes I have, and that is a great point and I am sure you will read about it in the commentary. This ties way back to the creation of Adam in Genesis 2:7.....


9:24f-Bring in everlasting righteousness

Daniel had recorded the three types of sin in 9:24: c, d, and e. Man has been guilty of these since the fall of Adam. As a result of his sin, Adam (man) was removed from the Garden. His sinful nature could not be found in His presence. There is no individual, organization, church denomination, practice, or society that has been or could approach the definition of righteousness. We might define this enigmatic term in one of two ways: In a worldly manner, it might be termed the quality of being morally true. Others can see our actions, thoughts, and behavior. It applies to our personal relationships as well as the myriad societal relationships we travel through each day, however, there is certainly no righteousness quality to be found in there; we might as well reference the golden rule.

When we delve into the spiritual dimension of righteousness, it takes on a deeper significance and requires a different perspective. In this context, righteousness is not merely about our outward actions or moral behavior, but it encompasses being in right alignment with God's standards, His will, and His character. It implies living in harmony with His divine purpose and reflecting His holiness in our thoughts, attitudes, and actions. And the only relationship we can possibly have with God is one of spiritual righteousness. This is on His terms, not ours. And since the fall, mankind has lost that spirit, that righteousness, and that holiness that was originally breathed into Adam at the time of his creation. In Genesis 2:7, we have the formula for how God created Adam as a living soul.

7And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

There are only two components that made Adam: dust from the ground and God breathing His Spirit into that dust. That was it. A+B=C. C represents the living soul. The living soul is not one of a three-part being that stands alone or exists without A or B. If either A or B is removed, there is no more C; It does not fly away somewhere; it does not go up or down for eternity. It simply means he or she is no longer a living soul (C). Further, B is or was not "air" that God breathed into Adam to jump-start his existence. It is the result of this divine interaction. This union sets humanity apart from the rest of creation and reflects our special status as beings made in the image and likeness of God. God had placed (breathed) His righteousness, His holiness, His Spirit within Adam.

Adam's expulsion from the Garden of Eden following his disobedience illustrates the profound consequences of sin disrupting this divine-human relationship. Sin introduced a separation between humanity and God, tarnishing the purity and righteousness originally bestowed upon Adam. The expulsion symbolizes not only physical removal from the Garden but also a spiritual estrangement from God's presence. Once again, Adam did not have his own righteousness. It was God’s holiness that returned to Him, not the holiness or righteousness of Adam; there was / is no other place outside of God where His holiness was meant to be, or can be found.

And this is exactly what God’s plan of salvation is all about: how will He get His holiness, His righteousness, His Holy Spirit back into us once again so we can be in His presence.

When Adam sinned and disobeyed God, the consequences were not immediate physical death but rather a spiritual separation from God. Adam, though still physically alive, was spiritually dead or separated from God's presence. This spiritual death introduced a state of spiritual darkness and alienation from God's righteousness and holiness. This is exactly what happened to the Jews who rejected and crucified their Messiah, Jesus. This abominable act would cause God to make desolate their spiritual relationship for the next 2000 years (time of the Gentiles). God's plan of salvation, fulfilled through Jesus Christ, aims to reconcile humanity to Himself and restore the broken relationship caused by sin. Through faith in Christ, individuals are reconciled to God and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, who dwells within them and empowers them to live in accordance with God's righteousness and holiness. Ultimately, the restoration of God's righteousness and holiness within believers enables them to experience true spiritual life and communion with God, both in the present age and for eternity.

Everyone born after Adam (outside the Garden) is a living being, not a living soul.

Consequently, we do not have His Spirit, His holiness, or His righteousness within us. Therefore, there is nothing that moves on after we die. Our body goes into the ground. The giving of the Torah, with its sacrificial rituals, served as a temporary means of reconciliation between God and His people. These rituals were a foreshadowing of the ultimate sacrifice that Jesus would make on the cross, bringing everlasting forgiveness and restoration to all who believe. Through the Holy Spirit, believers receive the assurance of God's presence and the power to live transformed lives. God would send His Holy Spirit to the Jews on Pentecost, symbolizing the breathing back of His spirit once again into man. This was God’s way of restoring His righteousness and holiness within us—already, but not yet. It must be restored in man before we are able to be with God, but it will only be consummated or perfected at His second coming. His entire plan of salvation aims to restore each and every one of us to the precise state in which He originally created Adam.

Just before Jesus died, He turned to His Father and said in Luke 23:46,

46And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit. Having said this, He breathed His last.

This final statement from Jesus not only echoed the prayer of distress and trust in His God expressed by David in Psalm 31:5, but it also revealed that Jesus had to relinquish His Holy Spirit to God because He had taken on the sin of the world. Sin and God’s Holy Spirit—given to Him by God on the day of His anointing at His baptism—could not coexist. However, God would restore His Holy Spirit within Jesus on the day of His resurrection. This symbolizes the return of the Holy Spirit to dwell within humanity at His second coming, enabling us to be in God's presence once again. When God beholds His people at the end, He will not see our sin. Instead, we will be clothed in His righteousness. As stated in Isaiah 61:10 and in Titus 3:4-7,

10I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom deck himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Righteousness or holiness will not be attained on this side of heaven. Good works and treating our fellow humans with dignity and care can never reach the heights of righteousness. It is an attribute that solely belongs to God, the lawgiver, and is reflected in His laws. If He desires to infuse His righteousness within us, it remains His righteousness and His gift to us. No individual can be justified by their own works apart from God’s ordinance. Only God has this righteousness to impart; it cannot be purchased, earned, worked for, or acquired in any manner. It is beyond the capability of humanity to generate any form of righteousness, and despite our best intentions, actions, and deeds, all our works are akin to filthy rags. In Isaiah 64:6, he writes,

6But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousness’s are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind,

Only the righteousness of Christ (not our own) will enter His kingdom.

I do disagree about the time of the Gentiles but there probably aren’t two people who agree on everything. I enjoy examining the views of others. I can see this is a well thought out commentary.

 

[CTK]

I do disagree about the time of the Gentiles but there probably aren’t two people who agree on everything. I enjoy examining the views of others. I can see this is a well thought out commentary.

Thank you for your kind words. Would you mind letting me know more of your thoughts regarding the "time of the Gentiles?" Thanks.

 

[rwb]

There are only two components that made Adam: dust from the ground and God breathing His Spirit into that dust. That was it. A+B=C. C represents the living soul. The living soul is not one of a three-part being that stands alone or exists without A or B. If either A or B is removed, there is no more C; It does not fly away somewhere; it does not go up or down for eternity. It simply means he or she is no longer a living soul (C). Further, B is or was not "air" that God breathed into Adam to jump-start his existence. It is the result of this divine interaction. This union sets humanity apart from the rest of creation and reflects our special status as beings made in the image and likeness of God. God had placed (breathed) His righteousness, His holiness, His Spirit within Adam.

If this is true, why does Christ say whoever lives and believes in Him shall NEVER die? Since Christ knew, every mortal body is destined to die, how can all who believe in Him have everlasting life through Him? How does man's spirit return to God who gave it after our body has died? Is our spirit alive, still a living soul if we died in faith, or does our spirit return to God without life, as do the beasts of the earth?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[rwb]

This was God’s way of restoring His righteousness and holiness within us—already, but not yet. It must be restored in man before we are able to be with God, but it will only be consummated or perfected at His second coming. His entire plan of salvation aims to restore each and every one of us to the precise state in which He originally created Adam.

Are you a universalist? Do you believe that ALL humanity without exception shall be saved?

 

[CTK]

If this is true, why does Christ say whoever lives and believes in Him shall NEVER die? Since Christ knew, every mortal body is destined to die, how can all who believe in Him have everlasting life through Him? How does man's spirit return to God who gave it after our body has died? Is our spirit alive, still a living soul if we died in faith, or does our spirit return to God without life, as do the beasts of the earth?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Thanks for considering my comments. I believe that ALL will die once (with of course those who are in Christ at His return and are brought up into the air after the dead in Christ are raised). But at that time, God will once again place His Spirit, His Holiness, His righteousness into those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

We do not have a "spirit" a separate entity... We are a human "being" no longer a human "soul," as He created us in the Garden. When we are resurrected, it will be to be with Him for eternity or without Him for eternity. What determines if He places His Holiness into the human "being" depends on whether we have accepted Jesus as our Messiah.

Again, we have no spirit / holiness / righteousness outside of God. He is the only being in creation that possesses Holiness, righteousness. He imparted that within Adam at his creation and had to take it back when he sinned. Sin and His righteousness cannot be in the same presence. Which of course is why those that have rejected Jesus will not survive His appearance.

When Adam and Even were forced to exit the Garden, they did so without God's righteousness within them. They had no ability to restore it outside the Garden, thus, all their decendants were also born without His righteousness or Holy Spirit within them.

His plan of salvation is to restore that "righteousness" His Holiness, His "Spirit" back into us so we can be with Him no different than when Adam was in the Garden at his creation.

 

[WPM]

Yes I have, and that is a great point and I am sure you will read about it in the commentary. This ties way back to the creation of Adam in Genesis 2:7.....


9:24f-Bring in everlasting righteousness

Daniel had recorded the three types of sin in 9:24: c, d, and e. Man has been guilty of these since the fall of Adam. As a result of his sin, Adam (man) was removed from the Garden. His sinful nature could not be found in His presence. There is no individual, organization, church denomination, practice, or society that has been or could approach the definition of righteousness. We might define this enigmatic term in one of two ways: In a worldly manner, it might be termed the quality of being morally true. Others can see our actions, thoughts, and behavior. It applies to our personal relationships as well as the myriad societal relationships we travel through each day, however, there is certainly no righteousness quality to be found in there; we might as well reference the golden rule.

I believe the return of Christ is the ultimate final glorious fulfillment of it, but from what I see in Scripture His life, death and resurrection actually introduced it. Similarly, He defeated sin, but the second coming will see the consummation of that. But “everlasting righteousness" has already been introduced/secured.

Psalms 119:137-138, 142 outlines, “Righteous art thou, O LORD, and upright are thy judgments. Thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful … Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.”

Christ is the ultimate personification and manifestation of everlasting righteousness. When he came to this earth, He brought “everlasting righteousness” to this sin-cursed world. He was the light in the midst of darkness. Those sinners who embrace Him experience “everlasting righteousness” and become a conduit for His Spirit to reveal Christ (the light of the world) through.

Christ has expressly fulfilled every demand that the Father made of Him in His sinless life, His atoning death and His glorious resurrection. A question that should be considered is: Was that righteousness secured through Christ’s death “everlasting” as predicted or temporal?

2 Corinthians 9:9 addresses our query, saying, “As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.”

The righteousness that flowed from the Cross is expressly “remaineth for ever.” It is eternal in nature and it is effectual in the lives of the redeemed of God. This reading clearly and concisely confirms, as predicted in Daniel 9 of His first Advent, that the righteousness that Christ secured was assuredly “everlasting righteousness,” not temporal as some would try and argue. This is in total keeping with the eternal character of the kingdom He ushered in and the spiritual life that the believer experiences when they encounter Christ. We can therefore deduce, the life within the believer is as eternal as God is.

Psalm 92:15: “The Lord is upright . . . there is no unrighteousness in Him.”

1 John 2:1: “if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”

The Lord is righteous and every act He does or word He speaks epitomises righteousness. In short, He is the absolute personification of righteousness. Righteousness reigns were He reigns and exercises authority. Moreover, the righteousness that we speak of that pertains to God is constantly represented as everlasting. There is no starting point to it and equally there is no end. Where God lives, righteousness exists. The two are inseparable. God is “from everlasting” (Habakkuk 1:12, Psalms 93:2). Therefore, His righteousness is everlasting. At the incarnation, Christ chose to manifest God’s eternal righteousness to sinful through His earthly ministry and the eternal life that He offered men.

In Matthew 6:33 Christ identified the kingdom with Himself, when He said, “seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.” Here the kingdom and Christ are viewed as one. Being part of the kingdom of God is being part of Christ. Being part of Christ means taking on His righteousness.

The great redemption chapter of Isaiah 53 had prophesied of Christ and the great eternal consequence that would emanate from Calvary for God’s elect: "my righteous servant shall make many righteous." How can futurists remotely deny that this great transaction was fulfilled 2,000 years ago at Calvary? Christ rendered many righteous through the redemptive work of the Cross. After all, He is “the Lord our righteousness” (Jeremiah 23:6).

2 Corinthians 5:21 provides the answer, saying, “for he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

 

[CTK]

Are you a universalist? Do you believe that ALL humanity without exception shall be saved?

Hope you do not mind, but I have literally no idea what that means, along with pre-trib, post-trib, pre-med ()or the other hundreds of terms created to place folks in little boxes (and no two people within the same box believe the same thing). I apologize but I do not try to learn of respond to those type of questions (not to be rude).

So, it appears I have not been too clear. ONLY those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior will be saved. Good works, no matter how good are worthless and cannot get anyone into heaven. No other religion or goodness will do!

 

[WPM]

9:24f-Bring in everlasting righteousness

Daniel had recorded the three types of sin in 9:24: c, d, and e. Man has been guilty of these since the fall of Adam. As a result of his sin, Adam (man) was removed from the Garden. His sinful nature could not be found in His presence. There is no individual, organization, church denomination, practice, or society that has been or could approach the definition of righteousness. We might define this enigmatic term in one of two ways: In a worldly manner, it might be termed the quality of being morally true. Others can see our actions, thoughts, and behavior. It applies to our personal relationships as well as the myriad societal relationships we travel through each day, however, there is certainly no righteousness quality to be found in there; we might as well reference the golden rule.

As man’s representative He took upon himself the form of man, living the life that we could never live. He kept and fulfilled the law perfectly, by living a life of perfect obedience. As our guarantor he voluntarily and unconditionally bore the necessary punishment of the penitent sinner. Christ paid our penalty in full by his substitutionary atoning death, this relieving us of our guilt, and purchasing our complete redemption.

When Christ approached John (at the beginning of the final week of Daniel) for him to baptise Him, John immediately refused, to which the Master declared, “Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness” (Matthew 3:15).

Likewise, Hebrews 1:8-9 says, “unto the Son he saith, thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.” Christ ushered that eternal kingdom in at the beginning of the 70th week. Jesus testified, in Luke 16:16, “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the Kingdom of God is preached, and every man ‘presseth’ (or biazetai – or suffereth violence) into it.”

The legal accomplishment of the Cross and the righteousness that was imputed to the penitent sinner was relative equally to the Old and New Testament saints. He was made a curse for us (Galatians 3:13). The shedding of the blood satisfied the Father and reconciled the sinner to God, securing eternal redemption. Christ the sinless Lamb of God was made sin on the sinner’s behalf. 1 John 2:29 declares, “Everyone that doeth righteousness is born of him”

The “everlasting righteousness” that is found in Christ has now been graciously imputed to His elect through mystical union in salvation. Romans 4:20-24 declares, talking about Abraham the father of the faith, “He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.”

The righteousness within us, which we have seen is not our own, is eternal in its makeup. It was accounted to us through the Cross. This righteousness which comes from God through Christ is appropriated by grace through faith. Romans 3:22 declares, “Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe.” The righteousness the believer has is not his own it is imputed (or put into us) of the Lord. Christ is our righteousness. Romans 5:21 says, “as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.” This “imputed” righteousness is also expressly of an “eternal” nature.

David Wilkerson states in a written sermon called Perfect Righteousness, “The only righteousness that is acceptable in God's eyes is the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ our Lord. And it is a righteousness that can be had only by faith!”

He continues, “This imputation comes by faith alone. We can't work for it or merit it in any way. Rather, because of our faith in Jesus and His redeeming work, the Lord credits the righteousness of Christ to us -- and we are reckoned as perfect in Him. That's right -- you and I are credited with the same righteousness that Jesus obtained here on this earth. By confessing our sins and having faith in Him, we stand before God with an imputed righteousness. And it is a perfect righteousness that is of faith and not of works.”

I John 3:7 says, “let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” It was Calvary however that fully realised the imputation of eternal righteousness into the child of God. 1 Peter 2:24 says, “who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.”

Calvary was the event that ensured that God’s elect would enter into the unending rest of “everlasting righteousness.” We therefore stand boldly and solely by faith in the righteousness of Christ and His shed blood, in total and absolute spiritual liberty.

Q. Was not this righteousness that he brought in everlasting?

A. Romans 5:17-21 says, “For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Calvary was the specific event that brought “in everlasting righteousness” for mankind. Our sin was imputed to Christ; His righteousness was imputed to us! Christ’s perfect once all-sufficient self sacrifice secured a full, real and perfect redemption for his own, whether Old or New Testament saints. The awful “condemnation” that afflicts every man since the fall through inherited sin is completely removed “in Christ” through the new birth experience. Through salvation the penitent is fully justified and “made righteous” in the eyes of God. He is taken instantly from spiritual death into spiritual life by being raised from a horrible spiritual grave. Romans 3:24-25 declares of His elect, “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.”

Calvary secured the imputation of that righteousness. This eternal or everlasting righteousness is contrasted to the old sacrifices under the law, which were only of a temporary nature. But Christ, once for all time, offered himself thus providing, as the prophecy of Daniel had said, "everlasting righteousness." Galatians 2:21 affirms, “if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

Christ’s death 2,000 years ago is again presented as the occasion that realised the eternal imputation of God’s elect with heaven’s righteousness. There is therefore absolutely no basis for the futurist teaching that none of these things have yet been fulfilled. To teach such is highly unscriptural and totally undermines the great redemptive work that Christ wrought at Calvary.

Paul the Apostle testified in Philippians 3:9, “not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.”

We are not justified by our “own righteousness” or our strict adherence to “the works of the law” (because no can truly attain to that), we are justified by walking “by faith” in “the righteousness of God” which was made possible by the substitutionary work of Jesus Christ on the Cross. A righteousness that we could never attain has been placed within us through the life and work of Christ. The righteousness that the believer now owns is therefore not his own it is imputed (or put into him) of Christ.

The righteousness that Christ ushered in was undoubtedly eternal or everlasting. It is perpetually effectual, and will last forever.

There is no other future event that can fulfil this wonderful prophecy but the cross. The one alone that was qualified to fulfil this did it perfectly and finally.

Romans 10:3-4 says of the religious who trust in their own innate righteousness: "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

He brought in everlasting righteousness, we seek none other.

 

[CTK]

I believe the return of Christ is the ultimate final glorious fulfillment of it, but from what I see in Scripture His life, death and resurrection actually introduced it. Similarly, He defeated sin, but the second coming will see the consummation of that. But “everlasting righteousness" has already been introduced/secured.

Psalms 119:137-138, 142 outlines, “Righteous art thou, O LORD, and upright are thy judgments. Thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful … Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.”

Christ is the ultimate personification and manifestation of everlasting righteousness. When he came to this earth, He brought “everlasting righteousness” to this sin-cursed world. He was the light in the midst of darkness. Those sinners who embrace Him experience “everlasting righteousness” and become a conduit for His Spirit to reveal Christ (the light of the world) through.

Christ has expressly fulfilled every demand that the Father made of Him in His sinless life, His atoning death and His glorious resurrection. A question that should be considered is: Was that righteousness secured through Christ’s death “everlasting” as predicted or temporal?

2 Corinthians 9:9 addresses our query, saying, “As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.”

The righteousness that flowed from the Cross is expressly “remaineth for ever.” It is eternal in nature and it is effectual in the lives of the redeemed of God. This reading clearly and concisely confirms, as predicted in Daniel 9 of His first Advent, that the righteousness that Christ secured was assuredly “everlasting righteousness,” not temporal as some would try and argue. This is in total keeping with the eternal character of the kingdom He ushered in and the spiritual life that the believer experiences when they encounter Christ. We can therefore deduce, the life within the believer is as eternal as God is.

Psalm 92:15: “The Lord is upright . . . there is no unrighteousness in Him.”

1 John 2:1: “if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”

The Lord is righteous and every act He does or word He speaks epitomises righteousness. In short, He is the absolute personification of righteousness. Righteousness reigns were He reigns and exercises authority. Moreover, the righteousness that we speak of that pertains to God is constantly represented as everlasting. There is no starting point to it and equally there is no end. Where God lives, righteousness exists. The two are inseparable. God is “from everlasting” (Habakkuk 1:12, Psalms 93:2). Therefore, His righteousness is everlasting. At the incarnation, Christ chose to manifest God’s eternal righteousness to sinful through His earthly ministry and the eternal life that He offered men.

In Matthew 6:33 Christ identified the kingdom with Himself, when He said, “seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.” Here the kingdom and Christ are viewed as one. Being part of the kingdom of God is being part of Christ. Being part of Christ means taking on His righteousness.

The great redemption chapter of Isaiah 53 had prophesied of Christ and the great eternal consequence that would emanate from Calvary for God’s elect: "my righteous servant shall make many righteous." How can futurists remotely deny that this great transaction was fulfilled 2,000 years ago at Calvary? Christ rendered many righteous through the redemptive work of the Cross. After all, He is “the Lord our righteousness” (Jeremiah 23:6).

2 Corinthians 5:21 provides the answer, saying, “for he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

I agree. Jesus certainly fulfilled all 6 elements of His God given mission revealed in 9:24. He brought in righteousness, put an end to sin by those who would accept Him and at His second coming, He will not remember their sins. Consequently, just as He came to "set up" His kingdom, our sins are forgiven "Already, but not yet." He has / will remove all of our sin but He did not come to remove our "sin nature." Which is why the 10 commandments have not been done away with. All will continue to sin but for those that accept the Messiah and bring His Holy Spirit within us, He will not see or remember our sins at the resurrection. For those that have rejected the Messiah, at their resurrection they will be judged by these same 10 commandments and not have the opportunity to pay for their sins with the sacrifice of the cross.

 

[rwb]

Thanks for considering my comments. I believe that ALL will die once (with of course those who are in Christ at His return and are brought up into the air after the dead in Christ are raised). But at that time, God will once again place His Spirit, His Holiness, His righteousness into those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

We do not have a "spirit" a separate entity... We are a human "being" no longer a human "soul," as He created us in the Garden. When we are resurrected, it will be to be with Him for eternity or without Him for eternity. What determines if He places His Holiness into the human "being" depends on whether we have accepted Jesus as our Messiah.

Again, we have no spirit / holiness / righteousness outside of God. He is the only being in creation that possesses Holiness, righteousness. He imparted that within Adam at his creation and had to take it back when he sinned. Sin and His righteousness cannot be in the same presence. Which of course is why those that have rejected Jesus will not survive His appearance.

When Adam and Even were forced to exit the Garden, they did so without God's righteousness within them. They had no ability to restore it outside the Garden, thus, all their decendants were also born without His righteousness or Holy Spirit within them.

His plan of salvation is to restore that "righteousness" His Holiness, His "Spirit" back into us so we can be with Him no different than when Adam was in the Garden at his creation.

CTK, you must prove from the Scriptures what you allege. If you cannot, then this is simply your opinion. I cannot/will not accept an opinion from any man unless his opinions can be supported from the Word of God. Prove that when a man in Christ breathes his last, his living spirit, as living soul does not return to God alive through the Spirit of Christ in us. Because Christ has given us assurance that when we have the Spirit of Christ in us, He shall be with us until we receive the redemption of our physical body changed from mortal to immortal and corruption to incorruptible.

Ephesians 1:12-14 (KJV) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[grafted branch]

Thank you for your kind words. Would you mind letting me know more of your thoughts regarding the "time of the Gentiles?" Thanks.

When the beast kingdoms in Daniel begin their reign, or really when Babylon captivity of the Jews occurred is when the times of the Gentiles started. The times of the Jews ended with the captivity.

When the kingdom of God began the times of the Gentiles ended. Once Christ was the King He never ceases to reign which means there are no longer any other “times”, Jew or Gentile.

The final act of the Gentiles destroying Jerusalem had not occurred before Christ began to reign in the kingdom of God. We have the statement in Luke 21:24 about Jerusalem being trodden down until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. The Daniel 9:26-27 act of destroying Jerusalem was fulfilled in 70AD which brought about the closure of the times of the Gentiles. That is why Luke 21:22 says that all things written may be fulfilled, meaning this is where all things prophesied for the Gentiles gets fulfilled.

 

[CTK]

CTK, you must prove from the Scriptures what you allege. If you cannot, then this is simply your opinion. I cannot/will not accept an opinion from any man unless his opinions can be supported from the Word of God. Prove that when a man in Christ breathes his last, his living spirit, as living soul does not return to God alive through the Spirit of Christ in us. Because Christ has given us assurance that when we have the Spirit of Christ in us, He shall be with us until we receive the redemption of our physical body changed from mortal to immortal and corruption to incorruptible.

Ephesians 1:12-14 (KJV) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Well, when Jesus was baptized in the Jordan and anointed by His Father, He received His Holy Spirit, His righteousness, within Him. When He took on the sin of the world, do you believe He had to give up "that Spirit" that was given to Him by His Father. It had to return to His Father since sin and His Spirit cannot coexist. But, on the 3rd day, Jesus was resurrected and His Father placed His Holy Spirit back witin Him and He was able to return to His Father where He wouls sit at His right hand. This, I believe is symbolic of what our experience will be. Certainly, we are or will receive His Holy Spirit within us as demonstrated at the time of Pentecost... but that was not THEIR Holy Spirit but still the Holy Spirit of God that returned to God after their death. This is the "already but not yet" concept where we elect to receive His Holy Spirit but it will not be fully consumated until our resurrection. Just as our sin is or will no longer be remembered once we accept Jesus as our Messiah, the righteousness of God will not be fully removed or placed within us until His return and it is fully consumated.

In the OT, it seems clear (to me) there are more than a few passages that tell us "the dead know nothing." All will die and go to the dust of the earth. They will never see, hear, or experience anything more under the sun. Then, all will be resurrected to either be with God or be without God for eternity. There are also passages in the Bible that speak of individuals after death, like the parable of the man who is standing across the wide cavern of gulf pleading that they might go back to his brothers to tell them to obey God and so as to not join him in the hellest place of torment where he is.... but that is a parable not a passage about after death... there is purgatory or places one goes before the resurrection... the dead know nothing under the sun anymore. And again, I belive the Holy Spirit does not belong to us when we receive Him when we express our faith in Jesus... we can not posibly have our own righteousness or Holiness. It is only God's to give and it is given to us when we accept Jesus as our Messiah - but again, and although it definitely will change us for the better and give us the power to obey His commands and try to live a righteous life until we die, it is not permanent, just as our ability to sin is not permanent while we are on the earth.

Do you still sin after we receive His Holy Spirit? Certainly, but we will die in Christ and be raised in Christ had we accepted Jesus as our Messiah and Savior. We will not put on the righteousness of His clothes until we are resurrected.... that cannot happen on this earth.

Look forward to hearing from you again!

 

[CTK]

When the beast kingdoms in Daniel begin their reign, or really when Babylon captivity of the Jews occurred is when the times of the Gentiles started. The times of the Jews ended with the captivity.

When the kingdom of God began the times of the Gentiles ended. Once Christ was the King He never ceases to reign which means there are no longer any other “times”, Jew or Gentile.

The final act of the Gentiles destroying Jerusalem had not occurred before Christ began to reign in the kingdom of God. We have the statement in Luke 21:24 about Jerusalem being trodden down until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. The Daniel 9:26-27 act of destroying Jerusalem was fulfilled in 70AD which brought about the closure of the times of the Gentiles. That is why Luke 21:22 says that all things written may be fulfilled, meaning this is where all things prophesied for the Gentiles gets fulfilled.

Okay, I understand..... If you do not mind, please let me share my two cents on this... not that it is right, but it is what I believe.. Would you say that when Babylon conquered Israel in 606 BC, it was the "time of the Gentiles?" Personally, I would not. This was the time after Soloman constructed the first Temple and over time, the Jews would repeadedly disobey their God. They would also turn to idolarty during the next XXX years until Jeremiah warned them about the coming destruction by the Babylonians - unless they repented. But of course, they did not and it was indeed a pagan or Gentile nation that was given the assignment to punish Israel and take them captive for 70 years. But God would also promise to restore His people after 70 years. He would reveal His plan of restoration and salvation for them in His 70 weeks of years prophecy in Chapter 9. Therefore, God was still only dealing with His people... He was not focusing on the Gentile nations allthough they would have a part in His plan of salvation and restoration for His people and His city for the next 700 years or so.

Everything in Daniel is running through the 4 kingdoms but up until the cross, God is very active with His plan to restore His city and His people. The 70 weeks of years prophecy is all about the city, His people and the coming of the Messiah in the 70th week of the prophecy. It is found a couple of times in Daniel - this is written for your city and your people (Daniel's) not the Gentiles.

It is only when His people reject Him and crucify Him will the "Time of the Gentiles" begin. This is not synonymous with the physical existence of the 4 kingdoms, it speaks of the time when He will turn to the Gentiles to reveal He is their Messiah and the only way to eternal salvation. The Jews have made their decision and turned away from Him.... This is in concernt with God telling His disciples, that "when you see the "abomination of desolation"....... it was His people who rejected and crucified Him and thus God would once again punish them by turning His face away from them - He would "make desolate" Him from His people UNTIL THE"times of the Gentiles" are fulfilled. Then, He will remove the blindness from their eyes (a Paul like Damascus experience) and they recognize the One they had pierced.

Again, this is just my view on the "time of the Gentiles." It is not a "physical thing related to the 4 kingdoms or their beginning, but the time where the Jews, like Paul, will preach the Good News to the pagan / Gentile world.

 

[grafted branch]

Okay, I understand..... If you do not mind, please let me share my two cents on this... not that it is right, but it is what I believe.. Would you say that when Babylon conquered Israel in 606 BC, it was the "time of the Gentiles?" Personally, I would not. This was the time after Soloman constructed the first Temple and over time, the Jews would repeadedly disobey their God. They would also turn to idolarty during the next XXX years until Jeremiah warned them about the coming destruction by the Babylonians - unless they repented. But of course, they did not and it was indeed a pagan or Gentile nation that was given the assignment to punish Israel and take them captive for 70 years. But God would also promise to restore His people after 70 years. He would reveal His plan of restoration and salvation for them in His 70 weeks of years prophecy in Chapter 9. Therefore, God was still only dealing with His people... He was not focusing on the Gentile nations allthough they would have a part in His plan of salvation and restoration for His people and His city for the next 700 years or so.

Everything in Daniel is running through the 4 kingdoms but up until the cross, God is very active with His plan to restore His city and His people. The 70 weeks of years prophecy is all about the city, His people and the coming of the Messiah in the 70th week of the prophecy. It is found a couple of times in Daniel - this is written for your city and your people (Daniel's) not the Gentiles.

It is only when His people reject Him and crucify Him will the "Time of the Gentiles" begin. This is not synonymous with the physical existence of the 4 kingdoms, it speaks of the time when He will turn to the Gentiles to reveal He is their Messiah and the only way to eternal salvation. The Jews have made their decision and turned away from Him.... This is in concernt with God telling His disciples, that "when you see the "abomination of desolation"....... it was His people who rejected and crucified Him and thus God would once again punish them by turning His face away from them - He would "make desolate" Him from His people UNTIL THE"times of the Gentiles" are fulfilled. Then, He will remove the blindness from their eyes (a Paul like Damascus experience) and they recognize the One they had pierced.

Again, this is just my view on the "time of the Gentiles." It is not a "physical thing related to the 4 kingdoms or their beginning, but the time where the Jews, like Paul, will preach the Good News to the pagan / Gentile world.

I can really appreciate having a conversation where we can express differences without having to think it’s some kind of debate where there has to be a winner and a loser, and I think we can do that here.



Let me think about what you said and I’ll respond tomorrow, I have a few things I need to get done this evening.

 

[rwb]

Well, when Jesus was baptized in the Jordan and anointed by His Father, He received His Holy Spirit, His righteousness, within Him. When He took on the sin of the world, do you believe He had to give up "that Spirit" that was given to Him by His Father. It had to return to His Father since sin and His Spirit cannot coexist. But, on the 3rd day, Jesus was resurrected and His Father placed His Holy Spirit back witin Him and He was able to return to His Father where He wouls sit at His right hand. This, I believe is symbolic of what our experience will be. Certainly, we are or will receive His Holy Spirit within us as demonstrated at the time of Pentecost... but that was not THEIR Holy Spirit but still the Holy Spirit of God that returned to God after their death. This is the "already but not yet" concept where we elect to receive His Holy Spirit but it will not be fully consumated until our resurrection. Just as our sin is or will no longer be remembered once we accept Jesus as our Messiah, the righteousness of God will not be fully removed or placed within us until His return and it is fully consumated.

In the OT, it seems clear (to me) there are more than a few passages that tell us "the dead know nothing." All will die and go to the dust of the earth. They will never see, hear, or experience anything more under the sun. Then, all will be resurrected to either be with God or be without God for eternity. There are also passages in the Bible that speak of individuals after death, like the parable of the man who is standing across the wide cavern of gulf pleading that they might go back to his brothers to tell them to obey God and so as to not join him in the hellest place of torment where he is.... but that is a parable not a passage about after death... there is purgatory or places one goes before the resurrection... the dead know nothing under the sun anymore. And again, I belive the Holy Spirit does not belong to us when we receive Him when we express our faith in Jesus... we can not posibly have our own righteousness or Holiness. It is only God's to give and it is given to us when we accept Jesus as our Messiah - but again, and although it definitely will change us for the better and give us the power to obey His commands and try to live a righteous life until we die, it is not permanent, just as our ability to sin is not permanent while we are on the earth.

Do you still sin after we receive His Holy Spirit? Certainly, but we will die in Christ and be raised in Christ had we accepted Jesus as our Messiah and Savior. We will not put on the righteousness of His clothes until we are resurrected.... that cannot happen on this earth.

Look forward to hearing from you again!

While I agree with much of what you say, but I believe Christ when He tells us that whosoever lives and believes in Him shall NEVER die.

John 11:24-26 (KJV) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Christ spoke these words after Lazarus had died. Martha, like you, believed her brother would not live again until the resurrection on the last day. So, Christ raised him from the dead to prove He has all power and authority over life and death. Telling her and us that physical death of our body cannot kill our soul. That's why Christ says, "fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul" (Mt 10:28).
Because the life believers have in the flesh is mortal and destined to die, but since the life we have in Christ is eternal our spirit returns to God in heaven a living soul.

I believe that Christ raised Lazarus from the dead that we might know that death of our body for all who trust in Him is not the end of life, but the beginning of life in another realm. Paul would not have been looking forward to physically dying, except that he knew, with blessed assurance that when his flesh was dead, he in spiritual body would be a living soul in the realm of heaven, the spiritual Kingdom of God where Christ is.

All the verses that say the DEAD know nothing, speak of our mortal bodies of flesh & blood. Because when our living spirit departs our dead flesh it ascends to heaven a living soul through the power of God, the Holy Spirit in us. And the Holy Spirit in all who are of faith will not leave us after our body is dead, He shall be with us until we are re-united with immortal & incorruptible body fit to inhabit the new earth. The dead in Christ, as a spiritual body will return with Christ to once again give physical life to our new body. Then we will once more be body + spirit (breath of life) = complete living souls.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 (KJV) Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 (KJV) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

We, who have been made alive through Christ, have no more fear of death. Because death cannot take away our everlasting life we have through Him. Our physical flesh is NOT us. It is what Paul calls a tabernacle, or outward form that houses out spirit. Because in Christ we are spiritual body that shall outwardly made new again, glorified when the last trumpet sounds that Christ has come again. Then our body with spirit as living soul will be where there is no more hell (grave) and no more death.

 

[grafted branch]

Okay, I understand..... If you do not mind, please let me share my two cents on this... not that it is right, but it is what I believe.. Would you say that when Babylon conquered Israel in 606 BC, it was the "time of the Gentiles?" Personally, I would not. This was the time after Soloman constructed the first Temple and over time, the Jews would repeadedly disobey their God. They would also turn to idolarty during the next XXX years until Jeremiah warned them about the coming destruction by the Babylonians - unless they repented. But of course, they did not and it was indeed a pagan or Gentile nation that was given the assignment to punish Israel and take them captive for 70 years. But God would also promise to restore His people after 70 years. He would reveal His plan of restoration and salvation for them in His 70 weeks of years prophecy in Chapter 9. Therefore, God was still only dealing with His people... He was not focusing on the Gentile nations allthough they would have a part in His plan of salvation and restoration for His people and His city for the next 700 years or so.

Everything in Daniel is running through the 4 kingdoms but up until the cross, God is very active with His plan to restore His city and His people. The 70 weeks of years prophecy is all about the city, His people and the coming of the Messiah in the 70th week of the prophecy. It is found a couple of times in Daniel - this is written for your city and your people (Daniel's) not the Gentiles.

It is only when His people reject Him and crucify Him will the "Time of the Gentiles" begin. This is not synonymous with the physical existence of the 4 kingdoms, it speaks of the time when He will turn to the Gentiles to reveal He is their Messiah and the only way to eternal salvation. The Jews have made their decision and turned away from Him.... This is in concernt with God telling His disciples, that "when you see the "abomination of desolation"....... it was His people who rejected and crucified Him and thus God would once again punish them by turning His face away from them - He would "make desolate" Him from His people UNTIL THE"times of the Gentiles" are fulfilled. Then, He will remove the blindness from their eyes (a Paul like Damascus experience) and they recognize the One they had pierced.

Again, this is just my view on the "time of the Gentiles." It is not a "physical thing related to the 4 kingdoms or their beginning, but the time where the Jews, like Paul, will preach the Good News to the pagan / Gentile world.

I can see you are saying that the times of the Jews are the times or time span that God focuses on the Jews and the times of the Gentiles is when the Gentiles are in focus, and the focus has to do with the plan of salvation.

I don’t think there can be any definitive explanation of what the “times of the Gentiles” is by looking at other “times”. The Bible doesn’t mention a times of the Jews or a time of any other group of people.

We do have things like the time of Jacob’s trouble but not the time of Jacob. The word trouble defines what time period we’re looking at in this case. We also have 2 Corinthians 6:2, now is the day or time of salvation but no mention of whether it should be classified as the time of the Jews or time of the Gentiles.

So I think initially the times of the Gentiles could fit into your category of the time Gentiles are being saved or my category of the times the Gentiles rule.

I think our biggest difference is that you have the Jews being restored and currently a distinction is made between Jew and Gentile. Let’s look at Jeremiah 31 which talks about the new covenant. I think we both agree that we are currently under the new covenant, and Jeremiah 31:36 has a conditional promise that if the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars depart from before God, the seed of Israel ceases from being a nation forever.

The ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars is given in Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

In the new heaven new earth the Genesis 1:14 ordinances are not being obeyed by the sun and moon, as seen in Isaiah 60:20.

Isaiah 60:20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

So, we can see that the seed will be cast off and cease from being a nation forever at some point. This means there can be no unconditional eternal promises made to the nation of Israel.

Do you see Israel becoming a nation before God again once the times of the Gentiles are over?

 

[CTK]

I can see you are saying that the times of the Jews are the times or time span that God focuses on the Jews and the times of the Gentiles is when the Gentiles are in focus, and the focus has to do with the plan of salvation.

I don’t think there can be any definitive explanation of what the “times of the Gentiles” is by looking at other “times”. The Bible doesn’t mention a times of the Jews or a time of any other group of people.

We do have things like the time of Jacob’s trouble but not the time of Jacob. The word trouble defines what time period we’re looking at in this case. We also have 2 Corinthians 6:2, now is the day or time of salvation but no mention of whether it should be classified as the time of the Jews or time of the Gentiles.

So I think initially the times of the Gentiles could fit into your category of the time Gentiles are being saved or my category of the times the Gentiles rule.

I think our biggest difference is that you have the Jews being restored and currently a distinction is made between Jew and Gentile. Let’s look at Jeremiah 31 which talks about the new covenant. I think we both agree that we are currently under the new covenant, and Jeremiah 31:36 has a conditional promise that if the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars depart from before God, the seed of Israel ceases from being a nation forever.

The ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars is given in Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

In the new heaven new earth the Genesis 1:14 ordinances are not being obeyed by the sun and moon, as seen in Isaiah 60:20.

Isaiah 60:20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

So, we can see that the seed will be cast off and cease from being a nation forever at some point. This means there can be no unconditional eternal promises made to the nation of Israel.

Do you see Israel becoming a nation before God again once the times of the Gentiles are over?

Very nice comments. Israel will always be His chosen people and they will have such an important and necessary final assignment to complete before the end. This is long... apologize, but I cut / pasted this section from my commentary....

Because of limitations, this has to be sent in two separate postings....

Part 1

Loose ends-the last 3.5 years of the seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy

In Chapter 8, Daniel had little chance of understanding the 2300 evening and morning visions found in 8:13–14. These two verses seemed isolated with no supporting context. However, in Chapter 9, Gabriel attempts to bring understanding to Daniel and confirms that this period is the most important time element within the seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy. Gabriel reveals the significant accomplishments to be fulfilled by the Messiah within the mareh vision period. Jesus’s ministry, spanning only 3.5 years—half of the seven-year period of Daniel’s final week—would end at the cross. During this period, Jesus would fulfill four of the seven holy feast days. His ministry began on the day of His baptism, marking the first day of the seventieth week of the prophecy, and ended on the fourth Passover festival, the day of His death.

He then sent His Holy Spirit fifty days later on Shavuot (Pentecost). Thus, the Messiah fulfilled each of the spring feast days. He will fulfill the remaining three fall feast days at His second coming, starting with the Day of Trumpets. Jesus's ministry and sacrifice on the cross to atone for humanity's sins were not dependent on His attendance during the full 2520 days (7 years @ 360 days) of the last week. His mission was accomplished within the designated 3.5 years, fulfilling the prophecy's requirements and ensuring the salvation plan set forth by God. Still, there are interpretations seeking to fill the perceived gap in the seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy, often attributing the unaccounted-for time to events like Stephen's martyrdom. However, such attempts are unnecessary and unsupported by the prophetic framework. The seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy focuses specifically on the Messiah's redemptive work and its culmination within the designated timeframe. Stephen's martyrdom, while significant in Christian history, does not serve as a marker for the end of the prophetic period. The prophecy's fulfillment revolves around the life, ministry, and sacrificial death of Jesus as the Messiah.

While Stephen's death occurred relatively soon after Jesus's crucifixion, it does not align with the prophetic timeline in the same manner. Searching for events or individuals to fill perceived gaps in prophecy risks straying from the intended focus and significance of the fulfillment of God's plan through Jesus.

It's understandable that some may still seek to reconcile the remaining 3.5 years of the prophetic timeline. However, the notion of these years being fulfilled in a future seven-year tribulation period, as promoted by certain interpretations, lacks scriptural support and veers into speculative territory. While Stephen's death holds significance within Christian history, it serves a different purpose than marking the end of the prophetic period. Instead, it underscores the ongoing persecution faced by early Christians and the spread of the Gospel beyond Jerusalem.

Every detail of God's plan, including the timing of the 2300 days and the fulfillment of the holy festivals through Jesus's ministry, was meticulously orchestrated. Nothing was left to chance or coincidence. The significance of these events extends beyond mere historical occurrences; they reveal the depth of God's love and His commitment to redemption. Even before the foundation of the world, God had mapped out His plan of salvation, ensuring that every aspect would ultimately point to the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Despite the clarity of these prophecies, it's possible for individuals to miss their significance if they choose not to see or accept them. However, God has granted each person the ability to recognize and respond to His truth. As Deuteronomy 30:19 reminds us, the choice to accept or reject God's Word ultimately lies with each individual.

19I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swear unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Stephen's death served a significant purpose in God's plan, although it wasn't intended to mark the end of the seven-year period. In Acts, Stephen boldly addresses the High Priest and the Pharisees, recounting the history of the Jews from Abraham to the Messiah. He confronts them with the truth of their rejection and betrayal of the "Just One," Jesus Christ, which stirs intense anger among his audience.

As Stephen stands before them, filled with the Holy Spirit, he becomes a powerful witness for Christ. His words pierce the hearts of his listeners, exposing their guilt and hypocrisy. In their fury, they seize Stephen and drag him outside the city to stone him to death. Stephen had indeed hit a nerve, and we read in Acts 7:54–58,

54When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. 55But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

 

[CTK]

I can see you are saying that the times of the Jews are the times or time span that God focuses on the Jews and the times of the Gentiles is when the Gentiles are in focus, and the focus has to do with the plan of salvation.

I don’t think there can be any definitive explanation of what the “times of the Gentiles” is by looking at other “times”. The Bible doesn’t mention a times of the Jews or a time of any other group of people.

We do have things like the time of Jacob’s trouble but not the time of Jacob. The word trouble defines what time period we’re looking at in this case. We also have 2 Corinthians 6:2, now is the day or time of salvation but no mention of whether it should be classified as the time of the Jews or time of the Gentiles.

So I think initially the times of the Gentiles could fit into your category of the time Gentiles are being saved or my category of the times the Gentiles rule.

I think our biggest difference is that you have the Jews being restored and currently a distinction is made between Jew and Gentile. Let’s look at Jeremiah 31 which talks about the new covenant. I think we both agree that we are currently under the new covenant, and Jeremiah 31:36 has a conditional promise that if the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars depart from before God, the seed of Israel ceases from being a nation forever.

The ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars is given in Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

In the new heaven new earth the Genesis 1:14 ordinances are not being obeyed by the sun and moon, as seen in Isaiah 60:20.

Isaiah 60:20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

So, we can see that the seed will be cast off and cease from being a nation forever at some point. This means there can be no unconditional eternal promises made to the nation of Israel.

Do you see Israel becoming a nation before God again once the times of the Gentiles are over?

Part 2

Stephen's encounter with the Anointed Messiah in heaven was a deeply significant moment, surpassing earthly understanding. Chosen by God for a special mission, Stephen's vision confirmed the truth of Jesus as the Son of Man, standing at the right hand of God, as prophesied in Daniel 7:13. His witness affirmed the "Anointing of the Most Holy in the Holy Place," signifying the acceptance of his sacrifice and the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary. Through Stephen's witness, God's plan of redemption was reaffirmed, demonstrating the victory of righteousness over sin and death. In Hebrews 9:23–25,


23It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest enter into the holy place every year with blood of others.

The decree by Artaxerxes in 457 BC marks the beginning of the fourth and final Great Jubilee cycle, which would culminate in 33/34 AD, just 3.5 years after the crucifixion of the Messiah.

From a literal or physical standpoint, Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy finds fulfillment in the events surrounding the crucifixion. There is no "unaccounted" or "unfinished" time that needs resolution at the end of time. However, there remains one element yet to be fulfilled. The significance of the final 3.5 years will indeed be addressed, but not necessarily in the manner most anticipate. It is essential to understand that these 3.5 years hold a crucial role in concluding the fourth and final Great Jubilee cycle.

In reconciling the third Great Jubilee, there existed 560 literal years between the second and the third Great Jubilee. This duration comprised the 490 years (10 x 49 years) stipulated between each Great Jubilee cycle and the additional seventy years that the Jews spent in captivity in Babylon. Alternatively, one could entertain the other interpretation where the reconciliation was contingent upon the availability of the Temple and the presence of Jews in Jerusalem. In this scenario, the 410 years corresponding to the existence of the first Temple and the 80 years from 538 BC to 457 BC would satisfy God’s requirement for the stipulated 490 years.

Regardless of the chosen approach, the third Great Jubilee period was duly reconciled and brought to completion. The situation we find ourselves in currently mirrors that of the past. The fourth and final Great Jubilee remains unfinished due to the events surrounding the crucifixion. Since then, the Jews have been separated from their God, experiencing a spiritual desolation. From the time of the cross in 30 AD, there have been 1994 unreckoned years, leading up to 2024 as the end date (2024–30=1994 years). Consequently, out of the total 490 years required to fulfill the fourth and final Great Jubilee, only 486.5 years have been completed (from 457 BC to the time of the cross in 30 AD). This leaves 3.5 years remaining before the conclusion of this fourth Great Jubilee Sabbatical cycle, which, upon completion, will herald the return of the Messiah.

The only time element specified by God within the last week of Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy that remains to be completed is set for the end of time. This will be elaborated on in Chapter 12, but it may allude to Revelation 11:3, where the Word of God and the testimony of their Messiah will be proclaimed to the world (clothed in sackcloth) by His people for 3.5 years.

3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

These last 3.5 years are not a requirement to be fulfilled by the Lord, as He has already fulfilled the mission given to Him by His Father. Rather, these 3.5 years represent the time frame needed for the Jews to fulfill their Great Jubilee cycle. God will open the eyes of the Jews to recognize Jesus as their Messiah, whom they had pierced, leading them to preach the Good News to the entire world, much like Paul did after his Damascus experience. In this way, they will complete their unique assignment given to them by God, spreading the message of the One true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, along with His Messiah, Jesus, to the entire world.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

As man’s representative He took upon himself the form of man, living the life that we could never live. He kept and fulfilled the law perfectly, by living a life of perfect obedience. As our guarantor he voluntarily and unconditionally bore the necessary punishment of the penitent sinner. Christ paid our penalty in full by his substitutionary atoning death, this relieving us of our guilt, and purchasing our complete redemption.

When Christ approached John (at the beginning of the final week of Daniel) for him to baptise Him, John immediately refused, to which the Master declared, “Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness” (Matthew 3:15).

Likewise, Hebrews 1:8-9 says, “unto the Son he saith, thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.” Christ ushered that eternal kingdom in at the beginning of the 70th week. Jesus testified, in Luke 16:16, “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the Kingdom of God is preached, and every man ‘presseth’ (or biazetai – or suffereth violence) into it.”

The legal accomplishment of the Cross and the righteousness that was imputed to the penitent sinner was relative equally to the Old and New Testament saints. He was made a curse for us (Galatians 3:13). The shedding of the blood satisfied the Father and reconciled the sinner to God, securing eternal redemption. Christ the sinless Lamb of God was made sin on the sinner’s behalf. 1 John 2:29 declares, “Everyone that doeth righteousness is born of him”

The “everlasting righteousness” that is found in Christ has now been graciously imputed to His elect through mystical union in salvation. Romans 4:20-24 declares, talking about Abraham the father of the faith, “He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.”

The righteousness within us, which we have seen is not our own, is eternal in its makeup. It was accounted to us through the Cross. This righteousness which comes from God through Christ is appropriated by grace through faith. Romans 3:22 declares, “Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe.” The righteousness the believer has is not his own it is imputed (or put into us) of the Lord. Christ is our righteousness. Romans 5:21 says, “as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.” This “imputed” righteousness is also expressly of an “eternal” nature.

David Wilkerson states in a written sermon called Perfect Righteousness, “The only righteousness that is acceptable in God's eyes is the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ our Lord. And it is a righteousness that can be had only by faith!”

He continues, “This imputation comes by faith alone. We can't work for it or merit it in any way. Rather, because of our faith in Jesus and His redeeming work, the Lord credits the righteousness of Christ to us -- and we are reckoned as perfect in Him. That's right -- you and I are credited with the same righteousness that Jesus obtained here on this earth. By confessing our sins and having faith in Him, we stand before God with an imputed righteousness. And it is a perfect righteousness that is of faith and not of works.”

I John 3:7 says, “let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” It was Calvary however that fully realised the imputation of eternal righteousness into the child of God. 1 Peter 2:24 says, “who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.”

Calvary was the event that ensured that God’s elect would enter into the unending rest of “everlasting righteousness.” We therefore stand boldly and solely by faith in the righteousness of Christ and His shed blood, in total and absolute spiritual liberty.

Q. Was not this righteousness that he brought in everlasting?

A. Romans 5:17-21 says, “For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Calvary was the specific event that brought “in everlasting righteousness” for mankind. Our sin was imputed to Christ; His righteousness was imputed to us! Christ’s perfect once all-sufficient self sacrifice secured a full, real and perfect redemption for his own, whether Old or New Testament saints. The awful “condemnation” that afflicts every man since the fall through inherited sin is completely removed “in Christ” through the new birth experience. Through salvation the penitent is fully justified and “made righteous” in the eyes of God. He is taken instantly from spiritual death into spiritual life by being raised from a horrible spiritual grave. Romans 3:24-25 declares of His elect, “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.”

Calvary secured the imputation of that righteousness. This eternal or everlasting righteousness is contrasted to the old sacrifices under the law, which were only of a temporary nature. But Christ, once for all time, offered himself thus providing, as the prophecy of Daniel had said, "everlasting righteousness." Galatians 2:21 affirms, “if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

Christ’s death 2,000 years ago is again presented as the occasion that realised the eternal imputation of God’s elect with heaven’s righteousness. There is therefore absolutely no basis for the futurist teaching that none of these things have yet been fulfilled. To teach such is highly unscriptural and totally undermines the great redemptive work that Christ wrought at Calvary.

Paul the Apostle testified in Philippians 3:9, “not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.”

We are not justified by our “own righteousness” or our strict adherence to “the works of the law” (because no can truly attain to that), we are justified by walking “by faith” in “the righteousness of God” which was made possible by the substitutionary work of Jesus Christ on the Cross. A righteousness that we could never attain has been placed within us through the life and work of Christ. The righteousness that the believer now owns is therefore not his own it is imputed (or put into him) of Christ.

The righteousness that Christ ushered in was undoubtedly eternal or everlasting. It is perpetually effectual, and will last forever.

There is no other future event that can fulfil this wonderful prophecy but the cross. The one alone that was qualified to fulfil this did it perfectly and finally.

Romans 10:3-4 says of the religious who trust in their own innate righteousness: "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

He brought in everlasting righteousness, we seek none other.

Well said. Daniel 9:24 is definitely fulfilled. Who else could have made an end of sins (forgave and covered sins), made reconciliation for iniquity, brought in everlasting righteousness, etc. except for Jesus Christ? If people think that Daniel 9:24 could be fulfilled any other way but by the blood of Christ, they are sadly mistaken. I like that quote from David Wilkerson, also. That sums it up very well.