What becomes of our faith if the Genesis account is NOT literal?

[ElieG12]

Uh, your own words.

Yeah, right?

And I'm sure I wasn't speaking in my native language, which is Spanish.

 

[ElieG12]

Tell me, please: What is an atheist doing trying to graduate from a theological seminary to become a pastor?

 

[TheHC]

So, the atheist scientists believe that the Genesis record concerning Adam is literal even when Christians don't? Wow.

/

I don’t think I understand your point.

Very few scientists take the Genesis account re: Adam as fact. There are some who’ve become JW’s; they would have had to accept it. Because if that isn’t a fact, how could anyone logically explain why Jesus’ sacrifice was needed for human salvation? Or how it works?

Common ancestry to the vast majority of scientists means for all living things. Like descent from a single-celled organism.

But specifically discussing human genetics, it’s interesting that science has discovered what researchers call the “Y-chromosome Adam” & the “Mt-Eve”.

It amounts to two separate “bottlenecks”…

According to science, eons ago there was one female (Mt-Eve) from whom all people living have descended; and quite a bit later, there was one man (Y-chromosome Adam) from whom everyone living has descended!

Since according to science this female preceded the male, I believe science has discovered Eve and Noah.

Of course, i know the chronology is off by thousands of years. But so is a lot that has been dated prior to the Flood. There’s a reason for the time-dating to be inaccurate.

Have a good day, my cousin!

 

[BarneyFife]

Yeah, right?

And I'm sure I wasn't speaking in my native language, which is Spanish.

We can only respond to what you post.

.

 

[ElieG12]

We can only respond to what you post.

Then respond to post#122

 

[PS95]

Faith in Jesus is precisely the confidence we have that all the mistakes we are continually making because we cannot control the behavior we have (whether due to genetics, the local culture in which we were raised, the education we received, by the direct influence of others who corrupt us, by the condition of the world that Satan rules, or for any other reason) will be forgiven and overlooked as we do our best to do the right things and stand for the truth.

We have complete confidence that Jesus sacrificed himself so that we have a clear conscience and can have peace in our sinful condition, and also, trust that the time will come when we have total control of our actions, because we will have matured enough and we will have been educated appropriately by God Himself about how to behave in the proper way, the way God considers appropriate for ourselves. He wants the best for us.

So faith in Jesus, our present sinful nature as imperfect humans, total self-control of our behavior, and the sacrifice of Jesus are inextricably associated with each other.

In all of my life I have never heard a JW say that much about Jesus.
How does your faith in Jesus give you confidence that your sins will be forgiven?
Aren't your sins forgiven when you pay God the wage at your own physical death?

 

[BarneyFife]

Then respond to post#122

But post#122 isn't in your native language. Is it safe?

Hey, you're making up the rules (as you go).

.

 

[TheHC]

Satan was corrupting the god-breathed scriptures in the minds of the writers?

Corrupting the scriptures? Themselves? There certainly have been attempts, some that were successful….

In the KJV, we do have the Comma Johanneum, an obvious addition not found in the oldest manuscripts of 1st John. It’s been removed from most translations.

And the Tetragrammaton, ie., God’s own Name, removed from His own Word.
It started out as a Jewish superstition — that God’s Name was too holy to pronounce (which sounds ridiculous right off the bat, since God wanted His Name to be remembered as a “memorial” (Exodus 3:15) and ”honored” & ‘called on’ by His worshippers (Malachi 3:16; Joel 2:32; Proverbs 18:10)). They followed their man-made taboo so well, that they forgot how to pronounce it!
And here’s the kicker: when Christendom gets established, they follow a Jewish tradition! (Since when did Christendom care what the Jews did?) And did more… instead of just leaving the Tetragrammaton in its over 6800 places in Scripture, they remove it & put “LORD” in its stead!!

I’ve always thought that getting God’s name removed from His own book, was a masterstroke from an ingenious enemy. It’s led to much confusion.

Sounds devilish to me.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you?

Maybe.
But that could be my fault, not being clear enough.

 

[PS95]

Corrupting the scriptures? Themselves? There certainly have been attempts, some that were successful….

In the KJV, we do have the Comma Johanneum, an obvious addition not found in the oldest manuscripts of 1st John. It’s been removed from most translations.

And the Tetragrammaton, ie., God’s own Name, removed from His own Word.
It started out as a Jewish superstition — that God’s Name was too holy to pronounce (which sounds ridiculous right off the bat, since God wanted His Name to be remembered as a “memorial” (Exodus 3:15) and ”honored” & ‘called on’ by His worshippers (Malachi 3:16; Joel 2:32; Proverbs 18:10)). They followed their man-made taboo so well, that they forgot how to pronounce it!
And here’s the kicker: when Christendom gets established, they follow a Jewish tradition! (Since when did Christendom care what the Jews did?) And did more… instead of just leaving the Tetragrammaton in its over 6800 places in Scripture, they remove it & put “LORD” in its stead!!

I’ve always thought that getting God’s name removed from His own book, was a masterstroke from an ingenious enemy. It’s led to much confusion.

Sounds devilish to me.


Maybe.
But that could be my fault, not being clear enough.

Devilish? Do you mean like going to seances with spirit mediums who "correct" the bible

PROOF OCCULT=JW RELIGION

This is a LONG POST- Several pages. It is thorough & documented. Grab a coffee.. Many are familiar with the Jehovah's Witnesses's NWT bible version of John 1:1. ( The Word was a god) However, many aren't aware that the Watchtower Society has lied & is lying to their members about their...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[St. SteVen]

From the OP.

The gospel and the New Testament narrative unravel when these things aren't literal.

- The geologies are meaningless. (or in serious error)
- Who wrote the Books of Moses? (and when)
- If Adam wasn't a literal human then he didn't literally sin.
- If Adam didn't literally sin, then there is no original sin.
- If there is no original sin then being born in Adam's race does not make you a sinner.
- If we are not redeemed from original sin by Christ's payment of the death penalty...
- Then the Atonement was of none effect.
- If the Atonement was of none effect, we are lost in our sin and awaiting judgment of our works.
- We all fall short of the perceived standard (the glory of God) and stand condemned.
- Faith in Christ can't help us, the Atonement is null and void. (as outlined above)
- Where does that leave us?

Alternatively:
- There is anecdotal evidence (and in some cases historical evidence) that faith in Christ can help us.
- And that a renewed relationship with the creator is possible. (assuming we were alienated prior)

But how can this be when church doctrine is a house of cards?
- Is a relationship with the creator of figment of our imagination? (wishful thinking?)
- Might we conjure up our own salvation to quell the fear of the unknown?

It's enough to drive one mad. (as my British friends might say)

I like what some atheists conclude.
Living your life as if there might be a God works better than living your life as if there isn't a God, (just in case?) - LOL

]

 

[St. SteVen]

--- PARODY ---

Christian: Do you believe in the Bible?
Skeptic: Who wrote the Books of Moses?
Christian: Well, Moses obviously. ???
Skeptic: If Adam wasn't a literal human then he didn't literally sin.
Christian: Adam's transgression was the original sin.
Skeptic: If Adam didn't literally sin, then there is no original sin.
Christian: We were all born sinners.
Skeptic: If there is no original sin then being born in Adam's race does not make you a sinner.
Christian: Well... ???
Skeptic: If we are not redeemed from original sin by Christ's payment of the death penalty...
Christian: I suppose, but...
Skeptic: Then the Atonement was of none effect.
Christian: Say what?
Skeptic: If the Atonement was of none effect, we are lost in our sin and awaiting judgment of our works.
Christian: That can't be right... ???
Skeptic: We all fall short of the perceived standard and stand condemned.
Christian: Well, yes, but...
Skeptic: Faith in Christ can't help us, the Atonement is null and void.
Christian: What? !!!
Skeptic: Where does that leave us?
Christian: We need to take the Genesis account as literal history.
Skeptic: Indications are that it is a mythology.
Christian: A mythology means it isn't true!
Skeptic: There is your problem.

[

 

[Bob]

Thank you for questions.

Doesn’t Hebrews 7 explain away your ultimate concerns?

Blessings.

 

[Lizbeth]

There is both the allegorical as well as factual in scripture (God is not a man that He should lie.) This is why we need the Holy Spirit to help us rightly divide between the two.

 

[JohnDB]

In today's Westernized, Post-modern society people read a "translated" selection of Genesis written 5700+ years ago and because they don't recognize the writing style of the poetry they want to assume it's all fiction.

That would be yet another mistake.

Hebrew poetry constitutes between ½-⅔ of the Bible. Where it is difficult to understand for many people today....it's a written record of a skill lost in today's world.

Oral tradition was once the ONLY way history was preserved. Since people forget....it was made as poetry so it could be remembered and handed down generation after generation.

Hebrew is one of the first languages that had actual writing and reading. Most didn't.

 

[St. SteVen]

Doesn’t Hebrews 7 explain away your ultimate concerns?

How so?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

There is both the allegorical as well as factual in scripture (God is not a man that He should lie.) This is why we need the Holy Spirit to help us rightly divide between the two.

Do you consider mythology to be allegorical, or false?

[

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This point causes me a massive amount of cognitive dissonance. (something most won't admit)

The gospel and the New Testament narrative unravel when these things aren't literal.

- The geologies are meaningless. (or in serious error)
- Who wrote the Books of Moses? (and when)
- If Adam wasn't a literal human then he didn't literally sin.
- If Adam didn't literally sin, then there is no original sin.
- If there is no original sin then being born in Adam's race does not make you a sinner.
- If we are not redeemed from original sin by Christ's payment of the death penalty...
- Then the Atonement was of none effect.
- If the Atonement was of none effect, we are lost in our sin and awaiting judgment of our works.
- We all fall short of the perceived standard (the glory of God) and stand condemned.
- Faith in Christ can't help us, the Atonement is null and void. (as outlined above)
- Where does that leave us?

Alternatively:
- There is anecdotal evidence (and in some cases historical evidence) that faith in Christ can help us.
- And that a renewed relationship with the creator is possible. (assuming we were alienated prior)

But how can this be when church doctrine is a house of cards?
- Is a relationship with the creator of figment of our imagination? (wishful thinking?)
- Might we conjure up our own salvation to quell the fear of the unknown?

It's enough to drive one mad. (as my British friends might say)

I like what some atheists conclude.
Living your life as if there might be a God works better than living your life as if there isn't a God, (just in case?) - LOL

]

Why can’t it be both? What I mean is why couldn’t Adam be a man …and also what he saw were not literal trees: the tree of Life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? For example: Hebrews 11:27 Lexicon: By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured, as seeing Him who is unseen.

Do we think a literal snake tempted man in the garden? You asked what does that do to our Faith if the Genesis account is not literal. What does it do to our Faith if it’s only Literal? Unless I’ve misunderstood it’s Faith in that which is unseen or else why do we still Hope? Genesis begins with “Let there be Light”. Jesus Christ also said Men hated the the Light and wouldn’t come to the Light for fear their deed’s would be made known. all throughout its Faith in that which is not yet seen, bringing to nothing that which is seen? Do I have that backwards?

 

[amadeus]

Why can’t it be both? What I mean is why couldn’t Adam be a man …and also what he saw were not literal trees: the tree of Life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? For example: Hebrews 11:27 Lexicon: By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured, as seeing Him who is unseen.

Do we think a literal snake tempted man in the garden? You asked what does that do to our Faith if the Genesis account is not literal. What does it do to our Faith if it’s only Literal? Unless I’ve misunderstood it’s Faith in that which is unseen or else why do we still Hope? Genesis begins with “Let there be Light”. Jesus Christ also said Men hated the the Light and wouldn’t come to the Light for fear their deed’s would be made known. all throughout its Faith in that which is not yet seen, bringing to nothing that which is seen? Do I have that backwards?

What matters to us, that is to believers, is the message God has for us. We do not know all of the answers, but we know in whom we believe... or we do not.

Joh 14:1

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Bob]

How so?

[

Thank you for your post.

To be begin, although God created us in His image, He also created us as social mammals, with the same basic instincts of all other social mammals: naturally self-centered, coveting all sorts of things, rationalizing any means to obtain those things.
(A different perspective from Original Sin, but acting in the same way.)

Although we may be taught to love God and our neighbors, and try our best to do both, our fallen nature causes us to hurt others and thereby disobey God. (You already know all this.)

If we have faith in Jesus, He will plead our case after physical death. (You know this, too.)

The link below explains the Letter to the Hebrews better than I can.

Blessings.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What matters to us, that is to believers, is the message God has for us. We do not know all of the answers, but we know in whom we believe... or we do not.

Joh 14:1

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

“…but we know in whom we believe…or we do not.” Reminds me of where Paul said he knows whom he trusted with all things. I couldn’t find that verse but found this one while looking for it…where they mocked Jesus. ’He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.’ Matthew 27:43.

Encouraging.