A few shall be left

[Spiritual Israelite]

2 Pet. 3:10 has to do with the time after the Millennial Kingdom, when the first heaven and first earth, Hades ( and everyone in it), Death itself, Satan and His demons are destroyed in the Lake of Fire ( which to me is more of an event than a place). Viewed from outer space it would look like lake of fire.

So, as a premil, you are saying that 2 Peter 3:10-12, which describes destruction occurring in conjunction with the day of the Lord, has to do with a time 1,000+ years after Christ's second coming.

Do you believe the following occurs 1,000+ years after Christ's second coming, also?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The day of the Lord refers to the time of His visitation with His heavenly host to judgment, which comes upon the world like a thief in the night.

Joel 2​

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King James Version​

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2 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11 And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it”

I agree that He will come as a thief for judgment but a day is as a thousand years kinda includes His Millenniel Kingdom too.
Not much more I can say, just my opinion.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Paul also knew who were reprobates among them according to their works.

2 Corinthians 13​

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King James Version​

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13 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
2 I told you before, and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare:”

So Paul, depending on his audience could come in love and in the spirit of meekness, or with the rod.

1 Corinthians 4:21
What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

Would you rather I come unto with a rod…is a question. Like where Paul pointed out they prefer those over them that make merchandise of them, but I come to you as those who do not overcharge you(paraphrasing what it means to me) not as Lords over the heritage of God but as helpers with your faith. I get Paul became frustrated but even when those within the body were glorying over the man who had his fathers wife, he said to put not only their glorying in it without the body; but also to put all the back biting and gossiping and slander outside with the adultery they are glorifying over …to put it without for satan to destroy the flesh. As God hands them over to a reprobate mind. Or those who blaspheme are handed over to satan that they may learn not to blaspheme God. To me that tells me when Paul said he wouldn’t use the Grace given unto him of God for their destruction, but Grace was given unto him for their edification . It seems important to Paul to remember this “not for your destruction but for your edification” saying he would not misuse the Grace of God to destroy. Instead …yes, “hand it over to satan”. Yet the Hope (love, mercy, Patience, longsuffering) is for the destruction of the flesh, so the spirit may be saved. To me it’s what Jesus Christ said unto them in …go make you friends with the unrighteousness mammon, so that when it fails, They will receive you into everlasting (that which does not fail) habitations. Who are “they” receiving you after “it fails” unto what does not fail?

I see now why we have such different views on end times. I noticed you didn’t highlight “but you are of the day, you are of the light not to be caught unaware, of the thief in the night”

Strange…wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, having done all to stand.

The night is far spent, the day is at hand, let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of Light.

Strange is God prepares unto battle a people not of the darkness but of the Light, preparing them against the day of evil …so they be not overcome by the thief. Yet we say the thief is Christ in preparing a people not to be overcome by the thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy. Remember you are not of the night but of the day where the thief does not catch you unaware and overcomes you. Stand up …put on the whole armor of God against the night, against the thief for in Him is NO thief. Stand up, put you on the armor of Light that you may stand against the darkness that it not overtake you as “a thief in the night” …does Christ prepare a people not of the night but of the day to fight against Himself?

They asked him the same and knowing their thoughts He said unto them… every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; a house divided will not stand. (Stand, Put on the armour of Light that you may stand in that evil day) …you are not of evil but of Light. Where not thief can approach.

Because you say I cast out devils by Beelzebub. If I cast out devils through Beelzebub. Whom do your sons cast them out? …if I with the finger of God cast out devils. No doubt the kingdom of God has come upon you. When a strong man armed (arm yourself with this same Mind that was in Christ) keeps his palace his goods are at peace. (That you be caught not unaware by the thief). BUT when one stronger than him, comes upon him and overcomes him..He takes his armor that he trusted in, and divides the spoil.

Proverbs: it’s better to be of a humble spirit, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

He that is NOT with me (a thief in the night) is against me, He that gathers not with Me scatters. …you are not of the Night to be caught unaware by the thief, put you on the whole armor to stand against the night, being of the day and not of the darkness, not of the evil but having passed from darkness unto to Light. Why put on the whole armor of God that we stand against the thief?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree that He will come as a thief for judgment but a day is as a thousand years kinda includes His Millenniel Kingdom too.
Not much more I can say, just my opinion.

Where do you see a thousand years fitting in these descriptions of the day of the Lord?

1 Thess 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

These passages indicate that upon the arrival of the day of the Lord "sudden destruction" by fire will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night upon the earth from which the Lord's enemies "shall not escape". I don't see where a thousand years fits in there anywhere. Please explain how that can be the case.

Notice that Peter says to his readers in relation to the coming destruction on the day of the Lord "Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God". This means that Peter expected that the destruction he described would happen at some point within the lifetimes of his readers. If the destruction didn't even occur until 1,000+ years after the return of Christ then it would've made no sense for Peter to indicate that he believed it would happen some day when people reading his message were alive.

The context of 2 Peter 3:3-13 is about the return of Christ and how people have been scoffing about the promise of His second coming. Peter's warning about what will happen on the day of the Lord is in relation to what will happen to people like those scoffers when Christ returns. They will be destroyed. So, Peter is telling his readers to be careful about their spiritual status and behavior while waiting for Christ to come so that we are not among those who are destroyed on that day He returns. That is the same message Paul gives in 1 Thess 5:2-9 when talking about the need to be in the light rather than in spiritual darkness while waiting for Jesus to come.

Seeing the day of the Lord as lasting a thousand years contradicts the fact that it will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night and will bring "sudden destruction". There is nothing unexpected or sudden about your understanding of the day of the Lord.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

They are the unbelievers who are destroyed by fire at His second coming (2 Thess 1:7-9, 2 Peter 3:10-12). The few men left who survive His second coming are believers! The few who are chosen and few who travel the narrow way are believers (Matt 22:1-14). I've asked you multiple times what qualifies any unbelievers to survive His second coming and you don't even attempt to answer the question, which is quite telling.

Before the millennium God’s people are scattered, during they are gathered.

Here is another way to prove the “Amil” doctrine is false. Before the millennium Gods people were prophesied to be scattered to all Nations, and from one corner of both heaven and earth. At the first resurrection of the dead in Christ all of God’s saints shall be gathered together. Matthew...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I agree that He will come as a thief for judgment but a day is as a thousand years kinda includes His Millenniel Kingdom too.
Not much more I can say, just my opinion.

I do believe the thousand years is literal, but it is also symbolic of the Lords Big Sabbath “Day”of Rest as mentioned in

Hebrews 4

King James Version

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4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Before the millennium God’s people are scattered, during they are gathered.

Here is another way to prove the “Amil” doctrine is false. Before the millennium Gods people were prophesied to be scattered to all Nations, and from one corner of both heaven and earth. At the first resurrection of the dead in Christ all of God’s saints shall be gathered together. Matthew...

www.christianityboard.com

Weak response, as usual. Nowhere does anything you said there in that post prove that any mortal unbelievers will survive Christ's return. The few left refer to the few chosen believers which are the few who follow the narrow path to salvation. You ignore all these passages which show all unbelievers being destroyed at His return. You just rip those passages out of your Bible, apparently.

And you make no attempt to explain what exactly would allow them to survive? Do you not see how weak it makes your doctrine look when you won't even bother trying to explain that? You try to create an imaginary third group of people who are neither with nor against Christ and are allowed to survive His return even though Christ Himself said "he who is not with me is against me" (Matthew 12:30). He did not place anyone in a third group as you do.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

To me it’s what Jesus Christ said unto them in …go make you friends with the unrighteousness mammon, so that when it fails, They will receive you into everlasting (that which does not fail) habitations. Who are “they” receiving you after “it fails” unto what does not fail?

I believe you misunderstand that parable. Jesus said when YOU fail….
Luke 16:9
And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.”

Their everlasting habitations is eternal destruction, not eternal life.

I see now why we have such different views on end times. I noticed you didn’t highlight “but you are of the day, you are of the light not to be caught unaware, of the thief in the night”

I was talking about the wicked being destroyed, they are the ones who are not watching. Therefore the Lords coming will be like a thief in the night for those who are not watching.

Matthew 24:43
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

believe you misunderstand that parable. Jesus said when YOU fail….
Luke 16:9
And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.”

Their everlasting habitations is eternal destruction, not eternal life.

We just see it differently…Jesus Christ telling them to go make friends with the uprightness mammon …so that when okay “they fail” … where they are received of after “they fail” …for it’s impossible to please the flesh…personally I think you have it backwards because even in God when they diapers (not diapers but desire not) to retain Him in their knowledgeable God gives them over to satan so that they may learn and return unto Him, that which doesn’t fail. You would have a hard time convincing me otherwise since this is seen in life. When it fails …as the son who wasted all his goods on rioting and came to nothing returned home and was received of the Father. I can relate to wasting everything and failing …to me Jesus Christ’s instructions for “go make you friends with the unrighteousness mammon” is merciful in opportunity to get full enough that you learn it fails. To be fully persuaded after you lived in and walked in those things you are now ashamed of…persuaded of God of better things which do not fail. Countless times Paul spoke on receiving one (or those)back who were once unprofitable now becoming profitable in God… that is what I’m persuaded of. I truly don’t think Jesus Christ was cursing those he said to go make friends with the unrighteousness mammon but said the same to Peter …Peter satan has asked to have you to sift as wheat. BUT when you return again, strengthen your brothers.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Weak response, as usual.

It’s not weak, but mighty in pulling down the “Amils”false doctrine stronghold.

You say the first resurrection is past already and we saints are already reigning with Christ as is shown in Rev. 20.

BUT all the scriptures agree that God ‘s people are all scattered to the 4 corners of heaven and earth BEFORE the first resurrection. Only AFTER the second coming of Christ and the first resurrection of the dead in Christ are ALL the saints gathered together.

That is why you see all the congregation (camp) of the saints at the Holy City in Rev. 20:9

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

Presently all the saints are still scattered to the 4 corners of heaven and earth, which proves AMIL doctrine is false.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

We just see it differently…Jesus Christ telling them to go make friends with the uprightness mammon …so that when okay “they fail” … where they are received of after “they fail” …for it’s impossible to please the flesh…personally I think you have it backwards because even in God when they diapers (not diapers but desire not) to retain Him in their knowledgeable God gives them over to satan so that they may learn and return unto Him, that which doesn’t fail. You would have a hard time convincing me otherwise since this is seen in life. When it fails …as the son who wasted all his goods on rioting and came to nothing returned home and was received of the Father. I can relate to wasting everything and failing …to me Jesus Christ’s instructions for “go make you friends with the unrighteousness mammon” is merciful in opportunity to get full enough that you learn it fails. To be fully persuaded after you lived in and walked in those things you are now ashamed of…persuaded of God of better things which do not fail. Countless times Paul spoke on receives one back … that is what I’m persuaded of. I truly don’t think Jesus Christ was cursing those he said to go make friends with the unrighteousness mammon but said the same to Peter …Peter satan has asked to have you to sift as wheat. BUT when you return again strengthen your brothers.

The sad truth is, many are prophesied to fail and fall away from the faith unto perdition.

Many are called, but few are chosen.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The sad truth is, many are prophesied to fail and fall away from the faith unto perdition.

Many are called, but few are chosen.

What is sad is we call the eternal habitations that receives those who failed in the unrighteousness of mammon …hell waiting to welcome them home.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It’s not weak, but mighty in pulling down the “Amils”false doctrine stronghold.

LOL. Hardly. You are quite delusional.

You say the first resurrection is past already and we saints are already reigning with Christ as is shown in Rev. 20.

Don't misrepresent my view. I say having part in the first resurrection occurs throughout the thousand years and that having part in the first resurrection occurs by way of spiritually having part in Christ's resurrection, which was the first resurrection.

Do you deny what Paul said here:

Acts 26:23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

Do you not believe that Jesus was the first to rise from the dead, as Paul said? The context of that is that He was the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality, which can be seen in 1 Cor 15:20-23.

Do you deny that we spiritually have part in Christ's resurrection when we're born again/saved?

Colossians 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

How can you deny that saints are already reigning with Christ in light of scripture saying we ARE a royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9) and have been MADE His priests in His kingdom who serve God?

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

What is written in the above passage makes the following verse a current reality:

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

The second death currently has no power over those who belong to Christ because we share in His resurrection. And we currently are "priests of God and of Christ" and He currently reigns as "ruler of the kings of the earth" as Revelation 1:5-6 indicates.

BUT all the scriptures agree that God ‘s people are all scattered to the 4 corners of heaven and earth BEFORE the first resurrection. Only AFTER the second coming of Christ and the first resurrection of the dead in Christ are ALL the saints gathered together.

I don't know what you're saying here. All the saints from heaven and earth will be gathered to Christ "in the air" when He comes (1 Thess 4:14-17).

That is why you see all the congregation (camp) of the saints at the Holy City in Rev. 20:9

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

Presently all the saints are still scattered to the 4 corners of heaven and earth, which proves AMIL doctrine is false.

The holy city, according to Revelation 21:9, is "the bride, the Lamb's wife". It symbolically represents the church. You're not interpreting scripture with scripture here. Your inability to discern symbolism is your downfall. You're taking symbolic text literally. Why? You are reading that text like "the natural man" would.

Do you really think that it's talking about a number of people "as the sand of the sea" all literally traveling to one geographical location on earth and that all saints on earth would be together in that location? I'm sorry, but that is just ridiculous. How could that even be possible logistically? Please explain that to me.

No, what is being symbolized there is no different than what is being symbolized in passages like Revelation 16:12-16 and Revelation 19:11-21. It symbolizes unbelievers opposing Christ and His church and persecuting the church throughout the world with the intention of destroying it. But, Christ will return "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" and that is what is being symbolized in Revelation 20:9.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I was talking about the wicked being destroyed, they are the ones who are not watching. Therefore the Lords coming will be like a thief in the night for those who are not watching.

Matthew 24:43
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Yet, you think some who are not watching will somehow survive. What is the difference between those who are not watching and supposedly survive and those who are not watching and are destroyed? Please answer this question. You can't be expected to be taken seriously that there will be mortal survivors of His second coming if you can't even explain why they would be allowed to survive.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

What is sad is we call the eternal habitations that receives those who failed in the unrighteousness of mammon …hell waiting to welcome them home.

The reality is there is more than one eternal destination.

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I say having part in the first resurrection occurs throughout the thousand years and that having part in the first resurrection occurs by way of spiritually having part in Christ's resurrection, which was the first resurrection.

The first resurrection of the dead in Christ happens right before the start point of the thousand years.

Before the start point of the thousand years all the saints are scattered to the 4 corners of heaven and earth. AFTER the first resurrection of the dead in Christ ALL Gods saints both in heaven and earth are gathered together at the start point of the thousand years.

I noticed no Amils have challenged that thread I started on this fact because they know they are wrong, but will not admit it.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Yet, you think some who are not watching will somehow survive.

I don’t think, I know BY the words of God…

Isaiah 24:6
Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The first resurrection of the dead in Christ happens right before the start point of the thousand years.

Yes, I know you believe that. But, you noticeably didn't respond directly to anything I said in my post.

Tell me, do you believe that the bodily resurrection of the dead is what is required for the second death to not have power over someone?

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Before the start point of the thousand years all the saints are scattered to the 4 corners of heaven and earth. AFTER the first resurrection of the dead in Christ ALL Gods saints both in heaven and earth are gathered together at the start point of the thousand years.

We're talking about "a great multitude" of people here. All gathered to one place? Where would that be and how would everyone fit there? Explain the logistics of this to me.

I noticed no Amils have challenged that thread I started on this fact because they know they are wrong, but will not admit it.

LOL. Don't flatter yourself. I have not been on here the last few days and am still getting caught up. I take part in several different threads. If you think any of us are afraid to deal with your weak arguments, you need to get off your high horse and think again.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don’t think, I know BY the words of God…

Isaiah 24:6
Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

You are a robot. You think just saying this over and over again proves anything. You aren't proving who those "few men left" are. Meanwhile, us amils have shown who they are. You also haven't explained why some unbelievers would be allowed to survive with the rest being killed. Are you afraid to even attempt to explain that? How can I take you seriously when you so cowardly all the time? You never want to take the time to back up your claims.

I can use that same verse to prove my view. There are few chosen (Matt 22:14) and few who take the narrow path to salvation, so it's believers who are the ones who survive. That verse is referring to those believers who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (1 Thess 4:15) who will survive because of being changed and having immortal bodies at that point.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I noticed no Amils have challenged that thread I started on this fact because they know they are wrong, but will not admit it.

Post #147 in this thread is my response to what you said there. You responded to my post with a link to that thread and I responded here. So, you can respond to that. I'm not going to post on the other thread when we can just talk about it here instead. I'm already trying to keep track of too many threads.