Does Christian Universalism deny the justice of God?

[St. SteVen]

That verse does not imply that universal reconciliation is biblical. What it means is that these individuals, who were never given the gospel, will be held to the standard in which God had revealed to them through the natural world.

So, you are admitting a salvation caveat? More than one way?
How is that different than Universal Reconciliation?

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[Super Kal]

So, you are admitting a salvation caveat? More than one way?
How is that different than Universal Reconciliation?

I never made that claim.

There are those in the past before the gospel was preached by jesus, that God revealed himself to these people through the natural world, and every human being is given the ability to choose between right and wrong, and according to what God has revealed to them in the natural world, they choose either do right or wrong, and according to that, God will judge them accordingly.. that's not saying that there's another way, that's dealing with the fact that there have been people who have lived on this Earth who had never heard the Gospel of Jesus.

Your universal reconciliation says that everyone will be saved eventually, regardless of what they believe or do.

In essence, you are saying that I don't have to be like jesus, I don't have to accept Jesus as my savior, I don't have to act like jesus, I can be a muslim, or a hindu, or a mormon, or any other heretical religion that you can think of, and in the very end, I'm going to be saved no matter what... That's the problem I have with your universal reconciliation. You take away the need the necessity and the exclusivity of believing in Jesus Christ.

 

[St. SteVen]

I never made that claim.

The previous post AND this one make it clear that you did/do.

There are those in the past before the gospel was preached by jesus, that God revealed himself to these people through the natural world, and every human being is given the ability to choose between right and wrong, and according to what God has revealed to them in the natural world, they choose either do right or wrong, and according to that, God will judge them accordingly.. that's not saying that there's another way, that's dealing with the fact that there have been people who have lived on this Earth who had never heard the Gospel of Jesus.

Before and after the gospel was given there are billions that have never heard. There are still unreached people. IMHO
Does your church support missions to foreign lands? Why? Because there are still unreached people. Right?

In essence, you are saying that I don't have to be like jesus, I don't have to accept Jesus as my savior, I don't have to act like jesus, I can be a muslim, or a hindu, or a mormon, or any other heretical religion that you can think of, and in the very end, I'm going to be saved no matter what... That's the problem I have with your universal reconciliation. You take away the need the necessity and the exclusivity of believing in Jesus Christ.

That's the wrong way to look at it. IMHO
As you said in the quote above, there are those [in the past] who haven't heard the gospel. I would say in the present as well.

Universal Reconciliation says that EVERYONE will have to answer for their lives and be corrected. Every nation, every leader, and every individual.
No one gets a free pass. NOT EVEN CHRISTIANS.

Your universal reconciliation says that everyone will be saved eventually, regardless of what they believe or do.

Actually, Universal Reconciliation says that everyone is ALREADY saved due to the COMPLETE work of the Atonement on behalf of humankind. The realization of this salvation happens in the Age of correction/reconciliation/restoration/redemption. Every knee... every tongue...

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[Beebster]

This is justice:

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:29)

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Rev 20:6)


Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. (Luke 3:5-6)

God will save all of humanity.

 

[St. SteVen]

Lamentations 3:22-23 NIV
Because of the Lord’s great love we are not consumed,
for his compassions never fail.
23 They are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I suppose I wouldn't have launched this topic if I didn't believe that
God's justice would be fulfilled in Universal Reconciliation.

... Mercy triumphs over judgment. - James 2:13 NIV

The tendency in Christianity is to view the judgment as a manifestation of
God's wrath AGAINST humankind, that were created in his image.

But how should the God who commanded us NOT to take revenge act?
Yes, he will repay, but from my perspective, that doesn't have to mean lashing out
at us in unbridled fury. God is love. How does love respond to a wrong done?

What did Jesus teach us about godly behavior? We are to love our enemies.
Turn the other cheek, Go the extra mile. Pray for those who persecute you,
that you may be children of your Father in heaven. - Matthew 5:44-45

How should this GODLY behavior be manifested in God the Father?
Would he tell us to love our enemies while he incinerates his own?
I thought he hated hypocrisy. Is he not abounding in mercy?

That being said, he will certainly deal rightly with us. Every idle word and
every selfish deed will be answered for. We will be required to reconcile with the
one who knows us inside and out. There will be no escape from his inquiry,

The great physician will do major surgery on us to remove every bad thing.
A miracle of restoration for a soul that is literally welded to sin. (body of death)

Therefore I view God's justice as being done in each of us individually.
To the degree that it will satisfy the hurt of others we have caused.
Correction, restoration, healing and redemption for all of humankind.

A triumph of grace.

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[Jack]

Lamentations 3:22-23 NIV
Because of the Lord’s great love we are not consumed,
for his compassions never fail.
23 They are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I suppose I wouldn't have launched this topic if I didn't believe that
God's justice would be fulfilled in Universal Reconciliation.

... Mercy triumphs over judgment. - James 2:13 NIV

The tendency in Christianity is to view the judgment as a manifestation of
God's wrath AGAINST humankind, that were created in his image.

But how should the God who commanded us NOT to take revenge act?
Yes, he will repay, but from my perspective, that doesn't have to mean lashing out
at us in unbridled fury. God is love. How does love respond to a wrong done?

What did Jesus teach us about godly behavior? We are to love our enemies.
Turn the other cheek, Go the extra mile. Pray for those who persecute you,
that you may be children of your Father in heaven. - Matthew 5:44-45

How should this GODLY behavior be manifested in God the Father?
Would he tell us to love our enemies while he incinerates his own?
I thought he hated hypocrisy. Is he not abounding in mercy?

That being said, he will certainly deal rightly with us. Every idle word and
every selfish deed will be answered for. We will be required to reconcile with the
one who knows us inside and out. There will be no escape from his inquiry,

The great physician will do major surgery on us to remove every bad thing.
A miracle of restoration for a soul that is literally welded to sin. (body of death)

Therefore I view God's justice as being done in each of us individually.
To the degree that it will satisfy the hurt of others we have caused.
Correction, restoration, healing and redemption for all of humankind.

A triumph of grace.

[

Have you read about God of the Bible Who burned Sodom alive "making them an example"?

 

[Behold]

I suppose I wouldn't have launched this topic if I didn't believe that
God's justice would be fulfilled in Universal Reconciliation.

Regarding Humanity...

The Cross of Christ is God's Judgement poured out against sin, while we are alive, and Hell is where its found poured out on everyone who didnt go to The Cross of Christ while they were alive, receive Christ, and become born again.

If you die being deceived by the Satanic Doctrine that is ""Universalism"...believing the LIE that you dont have to be born again on earth, you'll go to Hell and discover that no one gets a 2nd chance in Hell, because you can't be born again in Hell.


Regarding the World..

God's wrath is executed against sin, as WAR.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Cross of Christ is God's Judgement poured out against sin, while we are alive, and Hell is where its found poured out on everyone who didnt go to The Cross of Christ while they were alive, receive Christ, and become born again.

That assumes that everyone had an opportunity. (nope)

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[amigo de christo]

Universalism and Christianity are totally incompatible!

many forget the YE MUST BELEIVE PART . And thus they preach and offer up only false hope unto this world .
TIME to preach the ONLY name whereby a man can be saved .
What must i do to be saved . BELEIVE YE IN CHRIST JESUS .
What is condemnation .
HE who beleives is NOT condemned
but he who beleives not IS condemned already .............
SEEING GOD cannot lie . I suggest folks cease and dissest from universalism and fast , lest they continue to call
CHRIST a liar .

 

[Jack]

many forget the YE MUST BELEIVE PART . And thus they preach and offer up only false hope unto this world .
TIME to preach the ONLY name whereby a man can be saved .
What must i do to be saved . BELEIVE YE IN CHRIST JESUS .
What is condemnation .
HE who beleives is NOT condemned
but he who beleives not IS condemned already .............
SEEING GOD cannot lie . I suggest folks cease and dissest from universalism and fast , lest they continue to call
CHRIST a liar .

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED!

 

[amigo de christo]

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED!

Yes indeed my friend . And GOD cannot lie .
He told adam and eve to not eat of that tree for in the day ye do ye shall surely die .
The serpent said nay ye shall not .
GOD has chose how to save the world .
To save those who do BELEIVE .
But again here cometh the sepent , surely ye shall not be damned if ye beleive not .
WE dont heed the serpent . LET GOD be true but every man a liar .

 

[amigo de christo]

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED!

What was the dire warning given at the end of the book of revelation .
He who adds too or takes from . Many do just that . Not looking good for any such who do so either .

 

[Jack]

Yes indeed my friend . And GOD cannot lie .
He told adam and eve to not eat of that tree for in the day ye do ye shall surely die .
The serpent said nay ye shall not .
GOD has chose how to save the world .
To save those who do BELEIVE .
But again here cometh the sepent , surely ye shall not be damned if ye beleive not .
WE dont heed the serpent . LET GOD be true but every man a liar .

And yet the forum has many who attack the Bible and still profess to be Christians.

Satan has been busy.

 

[Behold]

That assumes that everyone had an opportunity. (nope)

I dont limit God to Cell phones, the internet, and whales.

See, God is able to get His Gospel, everywhere, and does.
He was sending it world wide before the invention of RADIO..... or before the Bronze age.

So, "with God all things are possible", and that means that getting the Gospel into those hard to reach areas, is easy for God.

 

[Jack]

That assumes that everyone had an opportunity. (nope)

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You should have read the Bible instead of ATTACKING the Bible.

Romans 1:19-20
19 What may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,

 

[amigo de christo]

And yet the forum has many who attack the Bible and still profess to be Christians.

Satan has been busy.

It sure do my friend . many places , churches and forums have things getting taught they never should have been taught .

 

[AngelicArcher]

This thread after it's initial posting was reposted in the Unorthodox board. And is now closed.

Let us be optimistic this thread can stay civil and active.

Pastor Carlton Pearson,RIP 2023, preached Universal Reconciliation.

Playing the Angels Advocate, if we accept that our father, God The Word in the Old Testament , is The Word made flesh,Immanuel,Jesus, of the New, would there be an eternal punishment in fire? When God's teaching tells us he wrote the name of his saved Elect in his Lamb's Book of Life?

After giving us our fallen human nature in the beginning. Knowing Judaism,to be consistent with our God of the Hebrews teachings in Judaism, where there is no place of eternal torment as is described in the New Testament, would it make sense God's non-Elect would be sentenced by God to suffer eternal Hell? When they were not so in the Old Testament.

Wouldn't wicked people suffer here for their sins?And,if we accept those placed in authority over us are appointed by God, wouldn't God's justice be served through mans?

Life without parole. Capital Punishment.

Do Jews Believe in Hell?

There isn’t one definitive understanding of life after death or heaven and hell.

www.jewishboston.com

 

[St. SteVen]

... would it make sense God's non-Elect would be sentenced by God to suffer eternal Hell?

That's a great question. Thanks.
It would mean that those in hell were predestined by God to end up there.
(for the crime of not being among the predestined Elect)

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[AngelicArcher]

That's a great question. Thanks.
It would mean that those in hell were predestined by God to end up there.
(for the crime of not being among the predestined Elect)

There's plenty of Scripture that tells us,in God's own inspired words, that he is the darkness and the light,the evil and the good,he is all things. Isaiah 45.

And, he,as the potter,creates all things. Even those for the day of destruction.

Proverbs 16:4
Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
All the works of the LORD are for those who will hearken to him; but the wicked are reserved for the day of calamity.

Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
All the works of LORD JEHOVAH are for those that submit to him, and the evil are kept for the day of evil.

OT Translations
JPS Tanakh 1917
The LORD hath made every things for His own purpose, Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
That's a great question. Thanks.
It would mean that those in hell were predestined by God to end up there.
(for the crime of not being among the predestined Elect)

There's plenty of Scripture that tells us,in God's own inspired words, that he is the darkness and the light,the evil and the good,he is all things. Isaiah 45.

And, he,as the potter,creates all things. Even those for the day of destruction.

So, does God indeed predestine humans for destruction?
(retaining only those He elected and predestined for life) ???

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