Are Tarot cards okay?

[Lambano]

If you have a full tarocchi deck, then yes. But most "tarot" decks only include the major arcana, and are used for "fortunetelling" rather than to play a card game.

So, you're saying most fortune tellers aren't playing with a full deck?

 

[Wick Stick]

Anybody who uses those things isn't playing with a full deck anyway.

For fortune-telling? I agree.

However, Tarot are also an art-form. There's an art-style (perhaps several) based on them... they originate from Italy during a period known for its art. It's fairly common for artists even today to create a set of drawings/painting giving their own take on them, or putting them into a different style. I don't see a problem with this.

 

[Rockerduck]

But they can't just overpower any person they want and take over, can they? Some people are vulnerable and some aren't.

It almost predictable. Kids going to rap, rock, hard rock concerts. Families with alcoholism. Families watching Porn together. There is a sizable population in the US that do darkness together. Growing up, I knew a friend in high school, good kid. After high school I saw him and he was different. He met a friend that his dad owned a porn business. I met them both, but they were strange and you could feel it. I was too young to spot it.

 

[Wick Stick]

It almost predictable. Kids going to rap, rock, hard rock concerts. Families with alcoholism. Families watching Porn together. There is a sizable population in the US that do darkness together. Growing up, I knew a friend in high school, good kid. After high school I saw him and he was different. He met a friend that his dad owned a porn business. I met them both, but they were strange and you could feel it. I was too young to spot it.

Yes, this. Demonizing seems to happen when a person (or group) latches onto some form of sinning and makes it their identity. They do it to themself. They hold onto the demon as much as it holds onto them.

 

[MA2444]

Is owning tarot cards sinful even if you don’t intend to use them?

I don't think it is sinful but these objects may attract demons. I wouldn't leave them lying around.

What about crystals and gemstones?

They are okay as long as you don't attribute superstitious or supernatural powers to them.

Are you nuts?
...may attract Demons? That's correct. Why would you want to attract Demons?

 

[MA2444]

Have you ever done the deep-dive on the word devils and demons in the Bible? It's interesting.

What we usually think of as demons (external malevolent entities exerting influence on people) is comparatively rare in Scripture. Where Scripture does talk about them, it's usually applied to foreign gods, and they're usually called devils rather than demons.

There's also a verb form of the word - demonizing - which is far more common in the NT. Grammar suggests that this is something that a person does to themself! If word etymology is an indicator, demonizing happens when a person (attempts to?) set their own fortunes. That seems relevant to a discussion of tarot and fortune-telling.

Anyone who believes in God must believe in Demons. I guess the big question is can Christians be possessed by demon(s)? You basically wrote the answer to that.

I dont think that a spirit filled Christian can be possessed by a demon, because...I *think* that possession implies ownership? But! They can be demonized like you said. They can be enticed by demons and tempted and have thoughts put into their head and all like that. Say for instance the get the thought, hey Ouiji boards arent really evil, lets play around some? So I think that if the christian makes the decision to play around with it (in violation of Gods will) then ...it opens a door for the demon to enter. Why wouldnt it open a door to demons? Scripture is clear on that stuff.

Thats what Jesus did the most of in His ministry, casting out demons!

 

[MA2444]

Yes, this. Demonizing seems to happen when a person (or group) latches onto some form of sinning and makes it their identity. They do it to themself. They hold onto the demon as much as it holds onto them.

I remember someone telling me one time that people in Calafornia have pet demons now. It's becoming a thing.

(I think that was in the 80s or 90s too)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Tarot cards are not okay for fortune telling, Deuteronomy 18:


There was a case of divination in Acts 16:


Paul saw the evil spirit in her and cast it out. This divination and fortune-telling ability was realized by an evil spirit. She had lost that ability:


The last description of casting lots was bright and early in Acts 1:


The next event was the coming of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. After that, no more casting lots. The Holy Spirit would direct us.

Evil spirits have a limited ability to foresee the future. They could communicate through Tarot cards, Ouija, psychics, etc. When you participate in these kinds of activities, you are drawing evil spirits into your midst.

God sees the entire future perfectly. I rather follow the Holy Spirit and practice Hearing from God instead of cards.

Is owning tarot cards sinful even if you don’t intend to use them?

I don't think it is sinful but these objects may attract demons. I wouldn't leave them lying around.

What about crystals and gemstones?

They are okay as long as you don't attribute superstitious or supernatural powers to them.

Very correct!

Cards and crystals and Ouija boards are just things that have no power.

It is people who give them the demonic power by believing that they can summon supernatural entities. That is when the demons come and deceive. but they are not inherentlyu evil of themselves. It is their use as designed that makes them evil

 

[Wick Stick]

Anyone who believes in God must believe in Demons.

Yes, but the immediate follow-up question is "what are demons?" Some think they are fallen angels, while others will say they are things like alcoholism. I believe in both, but I have questions. Like, I'm not completely sure if demons can have a physical body of their own? And does alcoholism invite habitation by an evil spirit, or does the evil spirit drive them to alcoholism? Which is cause and which is effect?

I guess the big question is can Christians be possessed by demon(s)? You basically wrote the answer to that.

I dont think that a spirit filled Christian can be possessed by a demon, because...I *think* that possession implies ownership?

I am certain that an evil spirit CANNOT co-habit with the Spirit of the Lord.

But I'm not sure that every Christian is perpetually filled with the Spirit of the Lord. If that is so, then why do we still sin?

 

[MA2444]

Yes, but the immediate follow-up question is "what are demons?" Some think they are fallen angels, while others will say they are things like alcoholism. I believe in both, but I have questions. Like, I'm not completely sure if demons can have a physical body of their own? And does alcoholism invite habitation by an evil spirit, or does the evil spirit drive them to alcoholism? Which is cause and which is effect?

That's a good questionand I have been studying on that on/off for awhile. And it's all there in scripture. I believe that Demons are not the same as fallen angels but are a product of when some fallen angels began sleeping with our earth women and having babies (Genesis 6) The babies were hybrids, half fallen angel genes and half earth woman human genes.

That got way out of hand and is one of the big reasons that God decided to bring about a worldwide flood in Noah's day. To kill them off was necessary because God's plan was with human beings and not half angel creatures which grew into being giants many of them. They are all unredeemable so when the Nephilims died in the great flood their souls could not go to heaven so they are bound to the earth. These spirits from the Nephilim are where demons came from (The book of Enoch says the same thing).

When Nephilim spirits have a body they are like, super-human. But when they do not have a body, they cant do much is what scritpure says. They wander in dry places and stuff. So they are always looking for a body to inhabit.

That's where demons came from and what they are.

Since the flood they have been trying to possess people which is why Jesus casted so many out, and how long have we been hearing about cattle mutilations? Where organs are harvested with surgical precision and the cows blood drained, right? That is the enemy gathering genetic material to clone for themselves bodys that they can inhabit.

And...those are the so called Aliens! I am guessing that the Greys were the first model and they got better at it after that, lol. Aliens are not extra-terrestrials, they are demonic hyper-dimensional beings from another dimension and that's the spiritual ralm. That's why you dont see pictures of UFO's way out in space on the way here from planet Vulan or whatever. We only see them around the earth & the moon. And they always appear and disappear and all that, right? They jump dimensions.

All you have to remember is that Jesus gave us Authority over unclean spirits in Jesus Name.
(That's why Christians dont get abducted!)

That's what I believe about demons.

 

[Rockerduck]

Yes, but the immediate follow-up question is "what are demons?" Some think they are fallen angels, while others will say they are things like alcoholism. I believe in both, but I have questions. Like, I'm not completely sure if demons can have a physical body of their own? And does alcoholism invite habitation by an evil spirit, or does the evil spirit drive them to alcoholism? Which is cause and which is effect?


I am certain that an evil spirit CANNOT co-habit with the Spirit of the Lord.

But I'm not sure that every Christian is perpetually filled with the Spirit of the Lord. If that is so, then why do we still sin?

John 2:23-25 - Because of the miraculous signs Jesus did in Jerusalem at the Passover celebration, many began to trust in him. 24 But Jesus didn’t trust them, because he knew all about people. 25 No one needed to tell him about human nature, for he knew what was in each person’s heart.

 

[MatthewG]

Satan and his angels had a destination, the Lake of fire. That’s who it was made for. I believe they are all done away with today…

There should be more demons attacking people and people being helped by the “disciples” today, …

Some will claim! I’ve healed someone before or in the name of Christ I did it…

That person is either in on the con or could be mentally handicapped… or have some other type of illness which makes them think they are a demon…

I hate this view, cause it makes no sense today? In Modern time.


Quote Jesus all you want but we don’t even live in his time anymore, but darkness infects peoples hearts just those effected by demons in that day in age… ultimately darkness effects the mind and heart and is in need of renewal.

I believe gods exist, idols exist. But not the devil and demons still roaming around, they are dead and gone. Darkness has been here since the beginning and the devil and his demons are representing life without God.

 

[MA2444]

I am certain that an evil spirit CANNOT co-habit with the Spirit of the Lord.

But I'm not sure that every Christian is perpetually filled with the Spirit of the Lord. If that is so, then why do we still sin?

That's exactly right. Maybe you used to be possessed but your friend drug you down to church and you got born again because the Holy Spirit was on the job! So the Holy Spirit kicked out the evil spirit and you go home filled with the Spirit!

Does the Holy Spirit stay? He does stay because He will never give up on you. But sanctification takes time and when he wakes up tomorrow morning, who's making the decisions? You or the Holy Spirit? Many people dont yet know how to surrender completely and keep the protection of the Holy Spirit. It's true that He will never leave you or forsake you, but if you start making your own decisions instead of consulting with Him...there is going to be consequences, right?

So they cant really possess them but it can oppress them and draw them away from the Lord and when we walk away from the Lord, we lose His spiritual protection. That's why Ephesians 6, put on the full armor of God that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

We are in a blood covenant with the Lord. And from what I understand, blood covenants need reaffirmed every day. What that means to us is...we dont pray Psalm 91 one time over our life and never again! We pray that over our life every day. Perhaps two times a day! Jesus was always sneaking off to pray! We must abide in Him. We dwell in Him. He who dwells in the secret place of the Almighty (The Holy of Holies area within us. We are the Temple now) then we abide under the shadow of the Almighty (We have his Protection).

So pick up your cross daily and walk protected. It's hard to learn but easy to do!

 

[Wick Stick]

That's a good question and I have been studying on that on/off for awhile. And it's all there in scripture. I believe that Demons are not the same as fallen angels but are a product of when some fallen angels began sleeping with our earth women and having babies (Genesis 6) The babies were hybrids, half fallen angel genes and half earth woman human genes.

That got way out of hand and is one of the big reasons that God decided to bring about a worldwide flood in Noah's day. To kill them off was necessary because God's plan was with human beings and not half angel creatures which grew into being giants many of them. They are all unredeemable so when the Nephilims died in the great flood their souls could not go to heaven so they are bound to the earth. These spirits from the Nephilim are where demons came from (The book of Enoch says the same thing).

When Nephilim spirits have a body they are like, super-human. But when they do not have a body, they cant do much is what scritpure says. They wander in dry places and stuff. So they are always looking for a body to inhabit.

That's where demons came from and what they are.

Since the flood they have been trying to possess people which is why Jesus casted so many out, and how long have we been hearing about cattle mutilations? Where organs are harvested with surgical precision and the cows blood drained, right? That is the enemy gathering genetic material to clone for themselves bodys that they can inhabit.

And...those are the so called Aliens! I am guessing that the Greys were the first model and they got better at it after that, lol. Aliens are not extra-terrestrials, they are demonic hyper-dimensional beings from another dimension and that's the spiritual ralm. That's why you dont see pictures of UFO's way out in space on the way here from planet Vulan or whatever. We only see them around the earth & the moon. And they always appear and disappear and all that, right? They jump dimensions.

All you have to remember is that Jesus gave us Authority over unclean spirits in Jesus Name.
(That's why Christians dont get abducted!)

That's what I believe about demons.

I've heard these theories before... and I don't think that I buy into the idea that the spirits of the Nephilim hung around and became what we think of as demons. I don't find that in the Bible. I don't find that in Enoch, either. I've read Enoch several times.

I do find that a few "giants" that exist after the flood in my Bible, but they were all wiped out by the Israelites. It seems that wiping out giants may have been part of God's purpose for a national Israel to exist.

 

[MatthewG]

I've heard these theories before... and I don't think that I buy into the idea that the spirits of the Nephilim hung around and became what we think of as demons. I don't find that in the Bible. I don't find that in Enoch, either. I've read Enoch several times.

I do find that a few "giants" that exist after the flood in my Bible, but they were all wiped out by the Israelites. It seems that wiping out giants may have been part of God's purpose for a national Israel to exist.

It’s not a bandwagon I care to be on, or even address… half the time… I just say “I don’t know” talking about that stuff doesn’t edify nothing. Just move forward shortly after going over it, for me… cause countless theories, keep a person on edge. I just walk away.

 

[MatthewG]

So pick up your cross daily and walk protected. It's hard to learn but easy to do!

If that is so why did so many people walk away? Dying to the self is one of the hardest things to do… saying it’s easy is a lie… eating the flesh of Christ and drinking the blood of Christ are two hard things to do. Not impossible but difficult, go through the narrow (strait) way, difficult to go through.

 

[MA2444]

I've heard these theories before... and I don't think that I buy into the idea that the spirits of the Nephilim hung around and became what we think of as demons. I don't find that in the Bible. I don't find that in Enoch, either. I've read Enoch several times.

I do find that a few "giants" that exist after the flood in my Bible, but they were all wiped out by the Israelites. It seems that wiping out giants may have been part of God's purpose for a national Israel to exist.

I have a digital version of Enoch and it's in there. So you must have just missed it several times. It happens! I've read the Bible cover to cover 5 times now and sometimes I read it and something makes me go, huh? I never read that before, but I have. WHo knows.

I've also heard that there are two or three versions of Enoch (I think) I dunno what version I have or which one you have? My vote says you missed it, lol. I think it was Abraham that God made the Promise to about the coming Messiah in 400 years. So satan knew he had 400 years to lay a minefield and prevent the Messiah from being born. The plan was if satan could contaminate all of the bloodlines of earth with fallen angel DNA then it would stop the Messiah from coming and being born.

But God always has an ace in the hole. It was Noah and his family that time. Direct descendants of the line of David not conatminated by Nephilim genes. When scripture said Noah is perfect in his generations, it means his DNA, his bloodline.

Genesis 6:9
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.../KJV

And apparently some nephilim did make it through somehow? Maybe through Noah's sons wives? One of them was 1/16 Nephilim or something and it came back over time? And that stuff in scripture when God tells the Israelites to kill every man woman children even beasts that everyone seems to get upset about? Says it was genocide? It was necessary satan contaminated the blood lines. We know there were giants. A Goliath of Gath is spoken of and named on some some tablet they found somewhere. And we know OG had to be real because that's scripture.

Is it just a coincidence that, the areas under dispute in Israel are the same areas that Joshua and his men failed to kill them all like scripture says? You can even google The Giant of Kandahar and read about that. Our Marines or army guys were in Afganistan and got attacked by a red haired giant. They killed it with 5000 rounds of 5.56 and their 12 guys or whatever but it killed one of their guys and they had to package the giant up somehow so a helicoptor could fly it out and they kept the body. The story is on youtube.

I think Christians biggest mistake / problem area is they confused who they are. We are not Human Beings on a spiritual journey!

We are spiritual beings on a human journey. That guy in the mirror is not me. I am a spirit. I have a soul. I live in this flesh body. The bible tells us all that.

 

[MA2444]

If that is so why did so many people walk away? Dying to the self is one of the hardest things to do… saying it’s easy is a lie… eating the flesh of Christ and drinking the blood of Christ are two hard things to do. Not impossible but difficult, go through the narrow (strait) way, difficult to go through.

Now waitaminute, dont jump to conclusions. I said it is hard to learn. I didnt even say I had learned to do it yet! So in a way it is very hard. But it is is easy to do once we do learn to fully die to the self in a world that I can see to a being in a world that I can not see. On the other hand, I dont find it difficult at all drinking the blood of Christ or eating the flesh of Christ. Hard to learn, easy to do (once you have learned).

Taking communion is awesome. Being in communion with our Lord Jesus, Our Creator! I learned how to do this good. I normally kkep a bottle of cheap red wine in the refrigerator. I like to use Ritz crackers but I also ordered 1000 of those church type communion wafer just in case I'm out of crackers or a few people show up at communion time. Before I receive Communion I lift up the wafer/cracker in my hand and declare out loud, This is the flesh of Jesus. Then I lift up the wine and make spiritual declaration, this is the blood of Jesus...then I give thanks and partake in it as instructed. The taste of the wine has never changed. The crackers are still crunchy, so it must be that the flesh & blood of Jesus is something that happens in the spiritual realm and not here on earth. And that's fine. WHen I declare that to be Jesus's flesh and blood, I mean it and I do believe it. I dont totally understand it or what it does in the spiritual realm, but it says to do it. So I do in faith. Easy schmeesy.

 

[MatthewG]

Now waitaminute, dont jump to conclusions. I said it is hard to learn. I didnt even say I had learned to do it yet! So in a way it is very hard. But it is is easy to do once we do learn to fully die to the self in a world that I can see to a being in a world that I can not see. On the other hand, I dont find it difficult at all drinking the blood of Christ or eating the flesh of Christ. Hard to learn, easy to do (once you have learned).

Taking communion is awesome. Being in communion with our Lord Jesus, Our Creator! I learned how to do this good. I normally kkep a bottle of cheap red wine in the refrigerator. I like to use Ritz crackers but I also ordered 1000 of those church type communion wafer just in case I'm out of crackers or a few people show up at communion time. Before I receive Communion I lift up the wafer/cracker in my hand and declare out loud, This is the flesh of Jesus. Then I lift up the wine and make spiritual declaration, this is the blood of Jesus...then I give thanks and partake in it as instructed. The taste of the wine has never changed. The crackers are still crunchy, so it must be that the flesh & blood of Jesus is something that happens in the spiritual realm and not here on earth. And that's fine. WHen I declare that to be Jesus's flesh and blood, I mean it and I do believe it. I dont totally understand it or what it does in the spiritual realm, but it says to do it. So I do in faith. Easy schmeesy.

Sorry about that I misread your comment. Once you learn yeah things are a bit easier, when you decide to pick up the cross, its still difficult to fight yourself not to pick it up. More of Christ in you though, he preforms the goodness that comes through. Abide in him, and he will abide in you.

 

[Wick Stick]

I have a digital version of Enoch and it's in there. So you must have just missed it several times. It happens! I've read the Bible cover to cover 5 times now and sometimes I read it and something makes me go, huh? I never read that before, but I have. WHo knows.

Certainly possible... I didn't exactly memorize it... but I don't remember that. Any chance you have a reference? From what I remember, Enoch is actually... several books... and rather long. I don't know if I wanna read the whole thing again.

And apparently some nephilim did make it through somehow? Maybe through Noah's sons wives? One of them was 1/16 Nephilim or something and it came back over time?

They definitely did. The Israelites killed several giants... Og and Sihon the two Amorite kings... Goliath of Gath... the city of Hebron was said to have giants at one point. It's a puzzle/problem for sure.

And that stuff in scripture when God tells the Israelites to kill every man woman children even beasts that everyone seems to get upset about? Says it was genocide? It was necessary satan contaminated the blood lines. We know there were giants. A Goliath of Gath is spoken of and named on some some tablet they found somewhere. And we know OG had to be real because that's scripture.

Hopefully I don't get myself in trouble, but... I don't understand the modern idea of warfare where you DON'T fight to eliminate the opponent. That idea doesn't exist in ancient history.

Is it just a coincidence that, the areas under dispute in Israel are the same areas that Joshua and his men failed to kill them all like scripture says? You can even google The Giant of Kandahar and read about that. Our Marines or army guys were in Afganistan and got attacked by a red haired giant. They killed it with 5000 rounds of 5.56 and their 12 guys or whatever but it killed one of their guys and they had to package the giant up somehow so a helicoptor could fly it out and they kept the body. The story is on youtube.

I was looking at this the other day. The territory that God promised Israel is significantly larger than the modern borders of Israel. It would include all of Lebanon, most of Syria, half of Jordan, a portion of Turkey...

I think Christians biggest mistake / problem area is they confused who they are. We are not Human Beings on a spiritual journey!

We are spiritual beings on a human journey. That guy in the mirror is not me. I am a spirit. I have a soul. I live in this flesh body. The bible tells us all that.

Interesting thought. Science (still) doesn't do a good job of articulating the difference between humans and animals... but there's a clear difference. Someday hopefully understanding will catch up with faith.