The Rapture Cover-up

[rebuilder 454]

Good luck finding a pretrib rapture in the scriptures I posted, right? Pretribs never use scripture to interpret scripture. They interpret each verse or passage in isolation without considering context and without taking the rest of scripture into account.

Good luck finding a LOF in the virgin parable

Postribber dictionary
"Know"
As in Mary "knew not a man"
Postribber wisdom= she had no male friends or acquaintances.

Jesus said " depart from me I know you not"
Those foolish were mental believers. What tiny bit of oil they had was all gone.
Jesus was a side issue.
They were not intimate like Mary Magdalene.
"Know"..."knew" speaks of intimacy.

Jesus addressed this in the seven letters to the seven churches
he called them lukewarm and he said he would spew you out of his mouth.

But postrib amils will never unpack the virgin parable.
Way too damaging .... cue chubby checkers twist music.
Oh yes yes yes ...anything but the plain word of God.

 

[David in NJ]

Note carefully the martyrs are confined to under the altar.
Later, we see the innumerable number before the throne
Not under the altar.
Note that they were confined until "their number is fulfilled"

Yet another dynamic that ONLY FITS pretrib rapture.
Billions beheaded at the start of the gt.
They were left behind and NOT PROTECTED as postribbers have erroneously and falsely believed.
All believers are killed for not taking the mark.
No postrib rapture at all.
No postrib rapture verses

Note that they were confined until "their number is fulfilled"

CORRECT

Their number is fullfilled, just as the FATHER said and we SEE their number fullfilled in chapter 7

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[rebuilder 454]

This is pure nonsense. Nothing but babbling. No exegesis of scripture to ever be found from you. Your doctrine is based only on assumptions and speculation and not on scripture. Back up these claims with scripture if you want to be taken seriously. Show exactly how you're coming to these conclusions instead of just making all these claims.

Oh yeah.
That Ole bible hit a nerve.
You can not handle they were confined, and now, after the time of their number fulfilled , they are in the general population

Your only avenue is to go into your false preaching and personal attacks

You have so little knowledge
You are not unpacking anything as you just demonstrated

 

[David in NJ]

This is pure nonsense. Nothing but babbling. No exegesis of scripture to ever be found from you. Your doctrine is based only on assumptions and speculation and not on scripture. Back up these claims with scripture if you want to be taken seriously. Show exactly how you're coming to these conclusions instead of just making all these claims.

Drop the comment of "pure nonsense" and only use it when it REALLY calls for it.

You are speaking to your Brother in Christ.

"Let us encourage one another in LOVE"

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching." - Hebrews ch10

 

[David in NJ]

@rebuilder 454 @IndianaRob @Spiritual Israelite

Gotta go for now - May the Peace of Christ and the Holy Spirit be unto you my Brothers.

 

[rebuilder 454]

CORRECT

Their number is fullfilled, just as the FATHER said and we SEE their number fullfilled in chapter 7

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Exactly.
Not protected
Not making it through the gt.
Killed by the devil.
At the start of the gt.
" every man, woman and child has the mark not written in the Lamb's book of life"
The world's population has the mark.
No postrib rapture.
Postrib rapture impossible
Only pretrib rapture fits

Pretrib rapture only fits

 

[MA2444]

Question of the DAY: Why did God do this with Enoch and Elijah???

Some think that Enoch & Elijah will be the two witnesses and will get their time to die then. They say it's somehow confirmed because it was Enoch & ELijah at Jeus transfiguration? Something like that.

 

[MA2444]

It is both.
It is both future and now.
It is both us and heaven.

I think so too. As above so below. On earth, as it is in Heaven.

...hey come look I think it's Jesus in the sky!
Huh? He's been with me the whole time. Within me, beside me. I dont need to come look! He never left me or forsaked me, lol.

 

[Wick Stick]

People please stop spreading the rapture heresy.

The rapture is a lie and it’s covering up one of the most important and uplifting doctrines in the Bible. That doctrine is BELIEVERS IN CHRIST NEVER DIE.

Enoch is the model for how all believers leave this world. ENOCH DIED but he did not SEE his death because he was taken to heaven and then his body fell to the ground DEAD.

We’re told in Hebrews that Enoch did not SEE death.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Then a few verses later we are told that ENOCH DIED along with all the other saints mentioned in Hebrews 11.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

We should comfort one another with these words not turn those words into a lie.

I don't believe in a rapture, but... I don't think you've made a compelling argument here.

It's pretty clear to me that Enoch DIDN'T die. Certainly the Jews thought he hadn't died.

 

[IndianaRob]

I don't believe in a rapture, but... I don't think you've made a compelling argument here.

It's pretty clear to me that Enoch DIDN'T die. Certainly the Jews thought he hadn't died.

It’s a very compelling argument but very few people read the Bible for what it says, everyone brings in their preconceived notions and the twisting begins.

None of us have the right to interpret whether or not Paul THOUGHT he would be alive for “the rapture”.

 

[David in NJ]

Some think that Enoch & Elijah will be the two witnesses and will get their time to die then. They say it's somehow confirmed because it was Enoch & ELijah at Jeus transfiguration? Something like that.

Well, it was Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration, so that is who they assume it is.

But we know that Moses died and God hid his body from the idol worshippers.

Deuteronomy 34:5 - So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day.

 

[David in NJ]

Exactly.
Not protected
Not making it through the gt.
Killed by the devil.
At the start of the gt.
" every man, woman and child has the mark not written in the Lamb's book of life"
The world's population has the mark.
No postrib rapture.
Postrib rapture impossible
Only pretrib rapture fits

Pretrib rapture only fots

my Brother,
Those Saints in Rev ch7 came "out of the Great Tribulation" were martyred = "they washed their robes in the Blood of Christ"

Rev 7:14 = "out of"
ἐκ (ek)
Preposition
Strong's Greek 1537: From out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.
A primary preposition denoting origin, from, out.

Not the beginning(pre-trib) but from INSIDE/DURING the Great Tribulation

These are the saints whom God said: "until the rest of your brethren are killed as you were" = Rev 6:11

 

[David in NJ]

It’s a very compelling argument but very few people read the Bible for what it says, everyone brings in their preconceived notions and the twisting begins.

None of us have the right to interpret whether or not Paul THOUGHT he would be alive for “the rapture”.

None of us have the right to interpret whether or not Paul THOUGHT he would be alive for “the rapture”.

Well, the Holy Spirit gave me the "right" to believe the scriptures which the Apostle Paul wrote.

No interpretation necessary for = "It is written"

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Good luck finding a LOF in the virgin parable

It's called interpreting scripture with scripture, which is a foreign concept to you. I showed, using scripture, what happens to those who will say "Lord, Lord, open to us" when He comes. You just want to keep each passage of scripture in isolation from the rest of scripture, but that is a horrible method of interpreting scripture. If one passage indicates that those who will say "Lord, Lord, open to us" will end up in the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, as can be seen in Luke 13:25-28, there is no basis for saying that another passage referring to those who will say "Lord, Lord, open to us" has them experiencing something else besides that.

Postribber dictionary
"Know"
As in Mary "knew not a man"
Postribber wisdom= she had no male friends or acquaintances.

Your foolish childishness, as you displayed here with your misrepresentation of post-trib, does nothing to support your case. It just shows that no one can take you seriously.

Jesus said " depart from me I know you not"
Those foolish were mental believers. What tiny bit of oil they had was all gone.

That means they are not believers at the time Jesus comes regardless of whether they were at one time or not. All that matters is whether someone belongs to Him when He comes or not. If they don't then He will say He doesn't know them and they will be cast to the place where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. That can be clearly seen in Luke 13:25-28. But, you don't want to use other scripture to help in your understanding of Matthew 25:1-13. You'd rather just interpret it in isolation and not care if your interpretation contradicts other scripture or not.

Jesus was a side issue.
They were not intimate like Mary Magdalene.
"Know"..."knew" speaks of intimacy.

For someone to not know Jesus means they do not have a personal relationship with Him and are not saved. Jesus said "He who is not with me is against me". Such people who He doesn't know are considered to be against Him and they will be punished and removed from His presence forever when He comes.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Jesus addressed this in the seven letters to the seven churches
he called them lukewarm and he said he would spew you out of his mouth.

And they will then get another chance to repent? No. That is not what will happen. It will be too late for them at that point. They will be cast into the fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, as I showed using scripture. Your opinions are based on your imagination and not on scripture.

But postrib amils will never unpack the virgin parable.

LOL! I already did. You just don't like what it actually teaches, as I showed, because it contradicts your false pretrib rapture doctrine.

Way too damaging .... cue chubby checkers twist music.
Oh yes yes yes ...anything but the plain word of God.

You're all talk and no substance. The next time you actually exegete scripture and back up your claims clearly with scripture will be the first time.

 

[IndianaRob]

Well, the Holy Spirit gave me the "right" to believe the scriptures which the Apostle Paul wrote.

No interpretation necessary for = "It is written"

Can you point out where Paul thought he would be in the rapture in this verse?

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Wick Stick]

if it says we rapture up into the air and then come right back down again with Jesus...I cant find that in my bible.

You're definitely familiar with these verses:

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Th 4:15-17

I see where the Lord is descending... and where the resurrected are meeting Him... on His way down. It doesn't say He hangs a U-turn and goes back up. So I think one can reasonably interpret these verses to mean that "we rapture up into the air and then come right back down again with Jesus."

That isn't the only possibly interpretation, but it doesn't seem out-of-pocket to read it that way.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Drop the comment of "pure nonsense" and only use it when it REALLY calls for it.

I won't drop it. I can see he's a buddy of yours, so you're trying to defend your buddy. But, you can't tell me what to do. It REALLY did call for it. He thinks he is proving something by just making one liner claims without backing them up with scripture. And he's misrepresenting and mocking amil without even really understanding what we believe. That is pure nonsense and I will not say otherwise. He needs to start backing up his claims with scripture.

You are speaking to your Brother in Christ.

And I am rebuking him for his nonsense.

"Let us encourage one another in LOVE"

I don't need a lecture from you. There is such thing as tough love. He needs to understand that he can't make all these claims that he does without backing them up with scripture and showing exactly how he is coming to his conclusions. There's nothing that says we can't rebuke fellow Christians when they are acting foolishly and should know better. We don't need to treat each other with kid gloves when someone is in the wrong.

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching." - Hebrews ch10

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

He sins by mocking post-trib and amil beliefs and misrepresenting our beliefs, so I will continue to rebuke him when he does that. And it's wrong to claim that scripture teaches something without actually showing it, too. That is unacceptable.

 

[David in NJ]

Can you point out where Paul thought he would be in the rapture in this verse?

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Can you point out where Paul is in this rapture verses/passage? Matthew chapter 24

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Exactly.
Not protected
Not making it through the gt.
Killed by the devil.
At the start of the gt.
" every man, woman and child has the mark not written in the Lamb's book of life"
The world's population has the mark.
No postrib rapture.
Postrib rapture impossible
Only pretrib rapture fits

Pretrib rapture only fots

Do you imagine that you are making a strong, coherent argument when you post like this? You do NOTHING to back up your claims with scripture. How can you expect to be taken seriously when your posts are only filled with one liner claims that you don't back up with scripture?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Can you point out where Paul thought he would be in the rapture in this verse?

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Since he was alive at the time, he included himself among those who are alive and remain. There's no reason to read anything into that as if he was claiming that he would be alive when Jesus came. He didn't know when Jesus was coming because no one knew the day or hour of His coming (Matt 24:36, Matt 25:13). And he clearly indicated that all believers, including all of the dead in Christ and all who are alive and remain when He comes, would be caught up to meet the Lord in the air at the same time, which you deny. That has clearly not happened yet.