The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[Taken]

WPM…I suppose discussing spiritual things is but a flippant game to some…since it is beyond Carnal Understanding.

 

[jeffweeder]

The ONLY PLACE anyone is burned up is the LOF.

I agree. Jesus clearly said this happens at his coming in Matt 25.

Concerning 2 thes 1;4-10, where is there a rapture?

Jesus comes to gather ALL who have believed the Gospel testimony and glorify us then. Paul includes himself in this event in the text and also in 2tim 4.

8 In the future there is reserved for me the [victor’s] crown of righteousness [for being right with God and doing right], which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that [great] day—and not to me only, but also to all those who have loved and longed for and welcomed His appearing.

2Thess 1
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire,

9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day , and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].

I see it through the pretrib rapture TAUGHT IN THE BIBLE.
I have pretrib rapture verses

Chapter and verse please.

Postribbers have no postrib rapture verses

Jesus said he comes after the tribulation..,

27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming [in glory] of the Son of Man [everyone will see Him clearly]. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will flock together.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not provide its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And at that time the sign of the Son of Man [coming in His glory] will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth [and especially Israel] will mourn [regretting their rebellion and rejection of the Messiah], and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliance and splendor]. 31 And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet and they will gather together His elect (God’s chosen ones) from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Take the "one coming" for example.
That is no where near any truth.
Mat 24 has 2 DISTINCT COMINGS.

Please show us where Jesus makes a distinction about him speaking of 2 different comings. Chapter and verses.

 

[Taken]

Jesus clearly said this happens at his coming in Matt 25.

Hi Jeff~

What say you “at his coming means” ….
Where does he come from where to where?

Jesus comes to gather ALL who have believed the Gospel testimony …

what say you…Jesus comes from where, to where to gather…?


Thanks.
God Bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

What verse in Revelation does it say that Moses struck the rock three times, Noah escaped in an ark and water was changed to wine.

I'm betting you have no answer. Crickets. Not a verse one.

Where in Revelation does it teach "the 1 year Day of the Lord"?

 

[jeffweeder]

Hi Jeff~

What say you “at his coming means” ….
Where does he come from where to where?

Hi.
He comes to receive us as promised.
He ascended to the Father, he comes in like manner so that where he is we may be also.

Jn 14
2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places. If it were not so, I would have told you, because I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back again and I will take you to Myself, so that where I am you may be also. 4 And [to the place] where I am going, you know the way.” 5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going; so how can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the [only] Way [to God] and the [real] Truth and the [real] Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

This would have to be the promise that 2Peter 3 is referring to. We look forward to a NHNE where righteous dwells.


13 But in accordance with His promise we expectantly await new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
14 So, beloved, since you are looking forward to these things, be diligent and make every effort to be found by Him [at His return] spotless and blameless, in peace [that is, inwardly calm with a sense of spiritual well-being and confidence, having lived a life of obedience to Him]. 15 And consider the patience of our Lord [His delay in judging and avenging wrongs] as salvation [that is, allowing time for more to be saved]; just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given to him [by God], 16 speaking about these things as he does in all of his letters.


What he is preparing for us is the NJ, and it is there the Father will dwell with us forever and we shall see his face.

what say you…Jesus comes from where, to where to gather…?

See above

Thanks.
God Bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

You're welcome.
May God bless you also.

 

[The Light]

Where in Revelation does it teach "the 1 year Day of the Lord"?

It's not in Revelation. It's in Isaiah 34.

 

[WPM]

It's not in Revelation. It's in Isaiah 34.

Where?

 

[MA2444]

Where?

Did you watch the video I posted? You keep asking for scriptures and he gives a lot of scriptures! You keep asking for exgis od the scriptures and that's what he does!

So surely you would watch the video, right? It's not even an hour long, lol.

 

[CadyandZoe]

HELLO! Exactly David! They lived (past tense) and reigned (past tense) with Christ during this period of time John writes a thousand years!

This is not in the past tense, it is in the aorist tense speaking of a future event.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Which one of us really avoids answering posts. You do. The reason you claim avoidance is because you hope someone is stupid enough to listen to your nonsense and not read the other posts.

If they did they would know your MO.

Deny you were answered when you were.
Deny there was scripture presented when there was
Deny there was exegesis when there is none needed.

They didn't answer my simple questions.

 

[WPM]

Did you watch the video I posted? You keep asking for scriptures and he gives a lot of scriptures! You keep asking for exgis od the scriptures and that's what he does!

So surely you would watch the video, right? It's not even an hour long, lol.

No, i did not. I have no interest in video links, outside websites or man-made charts. These are a smokescreen when posters run out of arguments. One cannot challenge the error being promoted.

 

[WPM]

They didn't answer my simple questions.

Please do not go there. There are multiple detailed biblical posts above that you have avoided that expose your teaching. The reader can observe that if they wish.

 

[MA2444]

No, i did not. I have no interest in video links, outside websites or man-made charts. These are a smokescreen when posters run out of arguments. One cannot challenge the error being promoted.

You could challenge it to me Wilma but I guess you aint that bright?

99.9% of what that man says is what I know and have been saying. Only he is orderly and organized and has all his ducks in a row and answers every one of the questions that you keep asking for...

But oh no you dont want to discuss any doctrine all you want to do is to sling insults. Just like a Wilma.

 

[WPM]

You could challenge it to me Wilma but I guess you aint that bright?

99.9% of what that man says is what I know and have been saying. Only he is orderly and organized and has all his ducks in a row and answers every one of the questions that you keep asking for...

But oh no you dont want to discuss any doctrine all you want to do is to sling insults. Just like a Wilma.

More projection.

I refuse to give credence to all your pettiness, name calling and insults. You have no rebuttal to Posttrib. This is all you have, along with avoidance.

 

[rebuilder 454]

So Pretribbers want a post trib verse? The following is what initially helped change my mind about the timing of the rapture. For decades my position was that the rapture was Pretrib. That changed when I began reading the following more carefully and then dissecting it, so to speak.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Verse 1 obviously pertains to the rapture. And that the day of Christ in verse 2 is involving this same coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in verse 1. That much is clear thus far.

Then when we get to verse 3 Paul makes a very important point first, where, IMO, Pretribbers pretty much disregard--Let no man deceive you by any means


It begs the question, in what way might someone deceive someone? Let's read on in verse 3.

for that day shall not come. What day shall not come? Obviously, at this point in the text, the answer to that has to be found in either verse 1 or verse 2, or both verses combined. My position is the latter. Which then means this part---for that day shall not come--can basically be understood like such.

the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, thus the rapture, which also pertains to the day of Christ, shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

I don't know what 'first' might mean to Pretribbers, but I know what it means to me. It means the rapture cannot come until there has first been a falling away, which then reveals that man of sin, the son of perdition. IOW, those that fall away are meaning the son of perdition the same way Judas fell away and was meaning the son of perdition.

If you disagree, simply compare the following.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth--compare with---And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth

The bad thing about it, even some of those that oppose Pretrib, some of them can't even see that the son of perdition is meaning those in the church that fall away. They are false teachers instead and teach that NOSAS is not Biblical, that once one is saved they remain saved forever, regardless. That is a lie from the pit of hell that NOSAS is not Biblical, and one day these false teachers will have to answer for all these lies they spread at the time.

Lol
Re read it.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Falling away. Yes we are in that now.
Antichrist REVEALED.
NOT IN POWER
NOT RULING
Ahem....Obama was REVEALED long before he took power.
The irony is strong because you just MADE A CASE for a pretrib rapture.

I firmly believe the AC will gather up all believers as his first action , in huge outdoor compounds, and then the rapture occurs PRETRIB.

But I know you guys need a verse desperately.

Keep trying. I am here to help bring God's word to the table.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Be less of a sniffing whiney baby, lazy person and more like a Berean accounted noble for searching the scriptures regarding what they were told. Acts 17: 10-11

He is a glorified troll

 

[rebuilder 454]

LOL. Another 3 posts of nothing but rambling and no Scripture. You are doing more to support the Op than I can do by your avoidance. This sums up Pretrib. It is extra-biblical nonsense. It has no source in God's truth.

Quote for us a postrib rapture verse.

Just one verse.
Should be a real easy one for a man so studious in his bible.

 

[rwb]

I firmly believe the AC will gather up all believers as his first action , in huge outdoor compounds, and then the rapture occurs PRETRIB.

What exactly will the gathering up all believers look/feel like if not great tribulation before being caught up to meet the Lord in the air?

 

[rebuilder 454]

WHere in Revelation does it say that we are not subject to the wrath of God? MMM?

Oh yeah, Revelation 3:10.

Now watch the big pastor man respond intelligently to a scripture...wait for it....wait for it....

Wanna know what is interesting?
Postribbers say they are protected during the trib. (Holding back a chuckle).
The innumerable number before the throne around Revelation 6 or 7 is most likely millions or billions that have been executed right at the start of the Great Tribulation. These are martyrs. Martyrs are those killed by the devil for the cause of Christ. And yet these post-tribbers think there is no such thing happening ,and they are blissfully protected, running from cave to cave, with the AC Boogeyman chasing hot after their heels.

It is complete Fantasy.
Made Up in their minds.
It says that power is given to the Antichrist. Even the Christians that are in the Great Tribulation, which are those left behind, it is said of them," they overcame by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony and they love not their lives unto death".

In other words ,every single one of them died. I have no idea how post tribs can possibly have any traction at this late hour. It is so plain that there isn't a single Christian Survivor of the Great Tribulation I don't know how much more plain the Bible could make it.

 

[WPM]

Quote for us a postrib rapture verse.

Just one verse.
Should be a real easy one for a man so studious in his bible.

I Thessalonians 4:15-5:5: “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”