The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[Spiritual Israelite]

Something for Amils to consider here. Obviously, they are not beheaded during the thousand years nor are they beheaded during satan's little season. What does that leave left? It means they are beheaded before the thousand years even begin.

Where does it say that? It doesn't. Your doctrine is based entirely on assumptions. The thousand years is an ongoing time during which people die and then go to reign with Jesus in heaven. It is only your assumption that those who reign with Christ all reign with Him for the entirety of the thousand years.

So, unless you or some other Amil can convincingly show that they are beheaded during the thousand years, Amil can not be the correct view in the meantime.

LOL. Obviously, we have been debating with you for many years and you have yet to be convinced, so you obviously will never be convinced. It's not like we have a bunch of new arguments to present that you haven't seen before.

Let's not forget that they have already been beheaded, thus have already been martyred, before satan is ever released from the pit.

Yeah, we all believe that.

This at least tells us that when they are initially beheaded, thus initially martyred, it is before satan is released from the pit.

No kidding. LOL.

Therefore, any saint being martyred after satan is released is not a valid option for any view including Amil.

Again, no kidding. Wow. Why say these things that everyone already knows?

And that presents a major problem for Amil

LOL. No, it does not.

since the 42 month reign of the beast precedes the 2nd coming,

Amil agrees with that. But, we disagree that it's a literal 42 months.

and that during it's 42 month reign, saints are being martyred left and right.

Yep.

Except Revelation 20:4 already shows saints are martyred before satan is released from the pit, therefore, not one single saint can or will be martyred after satan is released from the pit.

We don't relate the 42 months directly with Satan's little season. Satan's little season follows it.

Therefore, Amil is not true, it cannot work.

LOL. You're always thinking you're making strong arguments when they are always weak. Tell me again how your view can be reconciled with passages like Matthew 12:28-30, Matthew 13:36-43, Matthew 13:47-50, Matthew 24:35-39, Matthew 25:31-46, Matthew 28:16-18, Luke 17:26-37, John 5:28-29, John 6:40, John 12:48, Ephesians 1:19-23, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 1 Corinthians 15:22-28, Hebrews 2:14-15, 2 Peter 3:3-13, Revelation 1:5-6 and Revelation 19:17-18? You know, the passages which teach that Christ has been reigning and Satan has been bound since His death and resurrection, which teach that the saved and lost will be judged at the same time, that the saved dead and saved lost will be resurrected in the same hour, and that all unbelievers will be destroyed when Christ returns? Tell me again how Premils works with all of that?

It contradicts what is already recorded in Revelation 20:4, that any and all martyring of saints precedes satan being released from the pit. Look at Revelation 20:7-9. Does it look like any saints are being martyred at the time?

Most of the arguments that you ever make are strawman arguments. You waste so much time doing that. No amil claims that the ones who reign with Christ include those who are martyred during Satan's little season.

 

[WPM]

What verse in Revelation does it say that Moses struck the rock three times, Noah escaped in an ark and water was changed to wine.

I'm betting you have no answer. Crickets. Not a verse one.

It is not there, just like Pretrib. You are unable to prove any of your beliefs.

 

[The Light]

It is not there, just like Pretrib. You are unable to prove any of your beliefs.

Avoidance is all you can muster.

When are you going to address my posts regarding your large cut and paste posts.

 

[WPM]

Avoidance is all you can muster.

When are you going to address my posts regarding your large cut and paste posts.

Projection. Use your own sayings. You have nothing original to bring to the table. You are describing yourself.

 

[WPM]

Avoidance is all you can muster.

When are you going to address my posts regarding your large cut and paste posts.

You continually foist what do you have been taught upon the sacred text. That is why you can neverSupport your teams with heart Scripture.

Where in Revelation does it teach "the 1 year Day of the Lord"?

 

[The Light]

Projection. Use your own sayings. You have nothing original to bring to the table. You are describing yourself.

Which one of us really avoids answering posts. You do. The reason you claim avoidance is because you hope someone is stupid enough to listen to your nonsense and not read the other posts.

If they did they would know your MO.

Deny you were answered when you were.
Deny there was scripture presented when there was
Deny there was exegesis when there is none needed.

 

[rwb]

Scripture is NOT a convoluted mess.
ALL Scripture is True.
ALL Scripture does NOT APPLY to every individual.

Scripture is NOT a host of One Liner EXPLANATIONS!

It is the PROPER passages that speak to the knowledge of an EXPRESS point of topic…
It is multiple passages that expand the knowledge of an EXPRESS point of topic…

It is the Lord God Himself that is the source FOR “UNDERSTANDING”….explaining, interpreting the passages of the knowledge IN Scripture that the Lord God Himself APPROVED!

Rev 3:10 is SPECIFIC to those who HAVE kept Gods Word….if that isn’t you…it doesn’t apply to you.

Rev 3:10 is NOTICE TO those who HAVE kept Gods word…to be EPT from the hour of temptation….if that isn’t you … it doesn’t apply to you.

Rev 3:10 is NOTICE of being KEPT FROM a particular time frame….the hour of Temptation….If you do not KNOW what is the time frame of the HOUR OF TEMPTATION….YOUR duty to read and research and study to discover what the HOUR OF TEMPTATION IS…..
And YOUR DUTY, to decide IF you WANT to be KEPT FROM the HOUR OF TEMPTATION…(or not)…IF so…IT REQUIRES KEEPING the word of God….YOUR OWN freewill choice…regardless of what OTHERS CHOOSE!

Be advised…NOT EVERY individual freely makes the same choices…WHAT YOU do or do not choose SHALL ONLY AFFECT YOU.

YOUR JOB is to KNOW what applies TO YOU (your standing) and WHY…
YOUR JOB is NOT to contort your face in anger and flap your tongue and point your accusatory finger …. Because you are IGNORANT of an others CHOICES to read, study, elections to submit to OPTONS according to Gods Order and Way…and RECEIVE the Blessing of God UNTO THEM for Choosing Gods Offering of HIS KEEPING THEM … WITH Him FOREVER…FROM the HOUR OF TEMPTATION…FROM Gods TRIBULATIONS…FROM WRATH sent down from Heaven…FROM EVIL spirits…FROM Ever being Separated from God…

The same is OFFERED TO ALL MEN….ONLY YOU are accountable for YOUR CHOICES. IF it is YOUR choice to be IGNORANT of Gods “OFFERED CHOICES to forever be with Him”….Embrace it…Stand with it…and stop sticking your nose in what others CHOOSE…
You have ZERO knowledge of what others read, study, accept, regarding “their” one on one relationship with the Lord God…
THEIR one on one relationship with God…IS about them and God…NOT YOU.
Stop pretending you have the qualification or authority to dictate what does and does not “make logical sense to you” or “spiritually applies” to specific individuals…especially that you DO NOT personally KNOW!
Worry about yourself…be-cuz you project yourself as a meddler without being armed with the tools of righteousness.

Rev 3:10
[10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

I can't help but notice that you ignore the questions I put before you??? If your doctrine did not force contradictions into the Word of God, you would be able to answer the questions I put before YOU in posts #3513 & 3516. But you are correct, the Bible is NOT a convoluted, and contradictory mess, it is only your lack of understanding Biblical doctrine forced into the Bible that is.

 

[Taken]

I can't help but notice that you ignore the questions I put before you??? .

No need for me to answer….
* Points that have I have already answered on numerous threads regarding this topic…
* Silly questions…
* Gaslighters who make negative accusations then demand answers.

 

[Taken]

Stop avoiding. There are obviously redeemed during the tribulation period, so, if the tribulation period is the wrath of God, you are saying that the wrath of God is upon the righteous.

No the wrath during the trib iS NOT upon the righteous…RAPTURE….righteous not present on the earth!

 

[WPM]

No the wrath during the trib iS NOT upon the righteous…RAPTURE….righteous not present on the earth!

But there are redeemed during that time. There are saved during that time. There are followers of Christ during that time.

 

[WPM]

No need for me to answer….
* Points that have I have already answered on numerous threads regarding this topic…
* Silly questions…
* Gaslighters who make negative accusations then demand answers.

Mr Avoidance. You have to. Your doctrine is unbiblical.

 

[rwb]

Something for Amils to consider here. Obviously, they are not beheaded during the thousand years nor are they beheaded during satan's little season. What does that leave left? It means they are beheaded before the thousand years even begin.

HELLO! Exactly David! They lived (past tense) and reigned (past tense) with Christ during this period of time John writes a thousand years! And there shall be NO bodily resurrections from the graves for them, because, as I've shown, NONE shall be bodily resurrected immortal until the hour coming when the last trumpet begins to sound the last day when time shall be no longer. Why do you Premillennialists continue to argue these saints shall be bodily resurrected to this earth to live and reign with Christ one thousand years, when Scripture plainly tells us the dead shall NOT be bodily resurrected before the last trumpet sounds? How can they have been beheaded "before the thousand years even begins" since they have lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years before they were martyred for their faith?

Let's not forget that they have already been beheaded, thus have already been martyred, before satan is ever released from the pit. This at least tells us that when they are initially beheaded, thus initially martyred, it is before satan is released from the pit. Therefore, any saint being martyred after satan is released is not a valid option for any view including Amil.

Yes, they were beheaded, being faithful unto death before some future period of time you imagine to be one thousand literal years. Before this time period John writes, a/the thousand years expires Satan must be set free, faithful saints would be martyred, and when the seventh trumpet begins to sound, John writes that time shall be no longer. There are no verses that support a bodily resurrection of the dead at two separate times, the first being the beginning of this imagined ONE thousand years, then again when this time has expired.. There is only one bodily resurrection to either resurrection life or damnation, and this shall be in the hour coming when the last trumpet sounds, and time shall be no longer.

And that presents a major problem for Amil since the 42 month reign of the beast precedes the 2nd coming, and that during it's 42 month reign, saints are being martyred left and right. Except Revelation 20:4 already shows saints are martyred before satan is released from the pit, therefore, not one single saint can or will be martyred after satan is released from the pit. Therefore, Amil is not true, it cannot work. It contradicts what is already recorded in Revelation 20:4, that any and all martyring of saints precede satan being released from the pit. Look at Revelation 20:7-9. Does it look like any saints are being martyred at the time?

All mention of specific times in the Revelation precedes Christ's Second and only coming again. All of these times are within the time John writes as a/the thousand years. It is during TIME that is on-going NOW, that saints have been, are being, and shall continue to be martyred for their faith.

 

[rwb]

Read what he wrote, not what you think he wrote. If you would just listen a little bit more then you might grasp a little bit more truth.

Don't hold your breath, I'm sure not holding mine!

 

[rwb]

No need for me to answer….
* Points that have I have already answered on numerous threads regarding this topic…
* Silly questions…
* Gaslighters who make negative accusations then demand answers.

You don't answer because you CANNOT! To try would make you to argue against the Word of God, and even though you clearly have little understanding of Biblical eschatology, even you can figure out that arguing against God would make one foolish! You need to go back to the Biblical doctrines you have better understanding of and stop trying to prove you have understanding of biblical eschatology.

 

[Taken]

Show me where this is taught in scripture.

Below

Jesus compared the trib/wrath that will occur at His coming to what happened with the flood in Noah's day

Noah believe BEFORE the FLOOD…
None during the FLOOD were saved.
Noah / family, ark, was risen up above the Earth (Gen 7:17)

and the fire that came down on Sodom in Lot's day.

Different topic.

How many people became believers during the flood?

None…Those who knew of Noah building an ark, pretty much thought he was nuts….
They were busy …. Like today….partying, marrying, entertaining their own interests, ignoring God.

How about when the fire came down on Sodom?

Different topic regarding Lot (Abraham’s nephew) getting tangled in city where they immorality ran rampant.

***
It is a study…of how men were saved for 4,000 years…and then for the last 2,000+ years since Jesus preached His Gospel of the word of God of a new better testament and the end of days, as we known them….

Revelations is a synopsis of expectation for ALL on the face of the earth…during God sending tribulations and wrath down from heaven…

Seals 1-7 opened by the Lamb of God…His wrath unleashed…Some dying in belief and their souls (sort of sequestered, waiting for more to Die with saved souls) their souls together rising up to heaven…there they wait for the resurrection of their body’s.

During Trib.
Rev 11:3 Gods two witnesses preaching …3.5 years in Jerusalem….Don’t have a Number count…some will not die in belief and some will die in belief and be soul saved, and their soul rise up to heaven .. and wait for their body resurrection.

Rev 14:3 Specific to the Tribes of Israel, gathered together on mt Zion to be taught the gospel 3.5 years, from men (revealed and sealed in God in their foreheads….) Don’t have a Number count of the Israelites at Large being preached to….some will die not non-belief….and some will not die in belief and be soul saved and their soul rise up to heaven….and wait for their body resurrection.

Rev 14:6
No excuses to claim they didn’t hear, didn’t know…A Servant Angel of God, shall fly above the earth preaching the Word of God for any last minute mortals who choose to believe, and thus die in belief and be soul saved..and their soul rise up to heaven…and their body wait for resurrection.

There are 21 judgements sent down from heaven upon the whole of the earth..

Any time during the TRIB that an unrighteous man BECOMES righteous (HEARTFUL CONFESSED BELIEF) He becomes bodily dead, (tribulation and wrath ceases for him), his soul is saved and rises up to heaven to wait for resurrection of his body.

 

[Taken]

You don't answer because you CANNOT!

Get a q,tip…questions have repeatedly to ad nauseam have been answered….you can be told 100 more times….and while you are trying to figured out and understand with your Carnal Mind….you will continually be in the dark….Understanding Spiritual Events requires spiritual understanding….which as long as you depend on your Carnal Mind to understand Spiritual events…you will continue as you have frustrated….lashing out….accusing….

It is NO MANS JOB or REQUIREMENT to “give you Spiritual understanding of Spiritual events”!

You don’t believe in the Lord God MAKING A PERSON WHOLE…and KEEPING THEM FROM Gods tribulations and wrath….who cares?

Maybe God…but I don’t. I don’t care if you are on the earth during the trib experiencing the most horrific consequences….

God is JUST….you will get what you believe, what you want….So stop whining…what do you care what others believe, want and HAVE?

 

[rwb]

Get a q,tip…questions have repeatedly to ad nauseam have been answered….you can be told 100 more times….and while you are trying to figured out and understand with your Carnal Mind….you will continually be in the dark….Understanding Spiritual Events requires spiritual understanding….which as long as you depend on your Carnal Mind to understand Spiritual events…you will continue as you have frustrated….lashing out….accusing….

It is NO MANS JOB or REQUIREMENT to “give you Spiritual understanding of Spiritual events”!

You don’t believe in the Lord God MAKING A PERSON WHOLE…and KEEPING THEM FROM Gods tribulations and wrath….who cares?

Maybe God…but I don’t. I don’t care if you are on the earth during the trib experiencing the most horrific consequences….

God is JUST….you will get what you believe, what you want….So stop whining…what do you care what others believe, want and HAVE?

I understand your frustration Taken! It's very hard to argue against God, so you are showing some little restraint not trying to answer that which you cannot! After all I simply asked you to RECONCILE verses of Scripture (I did not ask you to believe what I say) with what you have been taught to prove your doctrine does not cause the Bible to be a convoluted, contradictory mess! Your silence speaks very loudly!

 

[WPM]

I understand your frustration Taken! It's very hard to argue against God, so you are showing some little restraint not trying to answer that which you cannot! After all I simply asked you to RECONCILE verses of Scripture (I did not ask you to believe what I say) with what you have been taught to prove your doctrine does not cause the Bible to be a convoluted, contradictory mess! Your silence speaks very loudly!

Bro, one by one, they have been forced to run because they do not have anything of biblical worth to bring to the table. I think they know what we're saying is true, they just are so in love with it, they cannot let it go. It is a bit like an old girlfriend. You know the relationship is not right, but you hang on a little bit longer to her than you should.

 

[Taken]

Your silence speaks very loudly!

Good. Intent accomplished.

 

[WPM]

Good. Intent accomplished.

Checkmate!