The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[The Light]

You cannot furnish biblical proof, only faulty options. This is what Pretribbers do. If you had Scripture you would show it.

Let's keep it simple for you. What verse in Revelation does it say that Moses struck the rock three times, Noah escaped in an ark and water was changed to wine.

I'm betting you have no answer. Crickets. Not a verse one.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The people of God have always been in tribulation, to whatever degree. That is nothing new. God's wrath is also continually upon the wicked. That is nothing new.

It was new when Jesus said it. This is important.

But, when it comes to the final climatic destruction poured out at Jesus' coming, Scripture shows that we are rescued before that, just like in Noah and Lot's day.

Who said that the final climactic destruction was the Great Tribulation?

 

[MA2444]

No. I am not looking for it. If you are telling the truth you will resubmit.

I've been bouncing back and forth to a womans discussion of feminism thread and I cant help but notice that, you debate like a woman does. Are you female? Because we've been through this before and you prolly remember it but I have already been asked to resubmit, resubmit from you about this before and I did that. I'm not doing it again. You did read it and had no answer so I suspect that your acting like a woman on purpose.

(now play a Victim card boo hoo hoo)

 

[WPM]

Let's keep it simple for you. What verse in Revelation does it say that Moses struck the rock three times, Noah escaped in an ark and water was changed to wine.

I'm betting you have no answer. Crickets. Not a verse one.

Talk about avoidance. Talk about deflection. No one claims that. You are incapable of showing Pretrib basics. You cannot support what you claim.

 

[WPM]

I've been bouncing back and forth to a womans discussion of feminism thread and I cant help but notice that, you debate like a woman does. Are you female? Because we've been through this before and you prolly remember it but I have already been asked to resubmit, resubmit from you about this before and I did that. I'm not doing it again. You did read it and had no answer so I suspect that your acting like a woman on purpose.

(now play a Victim card boo hoo hoo)

Insults and avoidance are your only weapons. You cannot discuss Scripture.

 

[WPM]

Let's keep it simple for you. What verse in Revelation does it say that Moses struck the rock three times, Noah escaped in an ark and water was changed to wine.

I'm betting you have no answer. Crickets. Not a verse one.

Where in Revelation does it teach "the 1 year Day of the Lord"?

 

[MA2444]

Insults and avoidance are your only weapons. You cannot discuss Scripture.

You wont respond to scripture! And I didnt insult you. I made an observation. There's a difference.

You'd rather whine than go find the scriptures that I posted (Several Times) and respond to them?

Told you.

 

[MA2444]

Where in Revelation does it teach "the 1 year Day of the Lord"?

WHere in Revelation does it say that we are not subject to the wrath of God? MMM?

Oh yeah, Revelation 3:10.

Now watch the big pastor man respond intelligently to a scripture...wait for it....wait for it....

 

[WPM]

You wont respond to scripture! And I didnt insult you. I made an observation. There's a difference.

You'd rather whine than go find the scriptures that I posted (Several Times) and respond to them?

Told you.

You live in denial. Look in the mirror.

 

[WPM]

WHere in Revelation does it say that we are not subject to the wrath of God? MMM?

Oh yeah, Revelation 3:10.

Now watch the big pastor man respond intelligently to a scripture...wait for it....wait for it....

Where is the Church mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
Where is a rapture mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
Where is a 7 yr trib mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
Where is a 3rd coming mentioned in Revelation 3:10?

 

[Taken]

TWO…BOOKS OF LIFE…

1) God knows you and your name BEFORE you are naturally born…YOUR NAME is entered into Gods BOOK OF LIFE from the time of the foundation of the World.
(It’s a study, not a one liner!)
YOUR NAME CAN, MAY, be BLOTTED OUT FROM THIS BOOK!

2) After your natural birth…at the TIME you freely CHOOSE (according to Gods Order and Way) to become MADE, “soul saved”, “spirit born again”….
(Which you SHOULD KNOW, is a Gift Offering From God, by, through, of THE LAMB OF GOD, to BAPTIZE such individual with THE SPIRIT and SEED and WORD of God….AT WHICH time that is established…
THAT individuals NAME is entered into:
The LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE….and CAN NEVER be BLOTTED OUT…
(It’s a study, not a one liner!)

At Judgement (the BOOK(S) ie evidence) are opened…Sentencing follows a Judgement pursuant to the Evidence revealed…NAME present…NO NAME present in the Book(S).
(It’s a study, not a one liner!)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

@MA2444

Dealing with an individual without ability to present their own STANDING and continually flap their mouth, point their finger, make demands, accuse….is simply a gaslighter or troll as some would say…whose whole intent is to be a thorn, PITA, and self- back-patter to sooth their own insecure ego.

A Bible forum, is not for soothing insecure egos….and when one tries to get that reaction and fails…the false accusing anger comes out…and will continue IF you feed the thing…

God Bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[rwb]

Your nonsense is noted.

rev 20:
…they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

After living and reigning with Christ a thousand years, do they get beheaded after that? When are they beheaded? Is the fate for faithful saints really beheading after one thousand years of living and reigning with Christ? Remember they are beheaded for being faithful unto death!

 

[WPM]

But please don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that the reason we should hold premillennialism is simply because it was taught by the early church...
I am saying that we should hold to premillennialism because it is found within the scriptures, the fact that the earliest church taught it is not a hindrance to this truth, it strengthens this truth, because it shows the accuracy of this doctrine, because if Jesus did teach it, then this teaching would be reflected in the students of the Apostles... and it is reflected in the students of the Apostles.

The majority of the ECFs were not Premil. Where do you get this from?

Do you believe in biblical corroboration?

 

[WPM]

@MA2444

Dealing with an individual without ability to present their own STANDING and continually flap their mouth, point their finger, make demands, accuse….is simply a gaslighter or troll as some would say…whose whole intent is to be a thorn, PITA, and self- back-patter to sooth their own insecure ego.

A Bible forum, is not for soothing insecure egos….and when one tries to get that reaction and fails…the false accusing anger comes out…and will continue IF you feed the thing…

God Bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

Where is the Church mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
Where is a rapture mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
Where is a 7 yr trib mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
Where is a 3rd coming mentioned in Revelation 3:10?

 

[rwb]

Regarding Christ 1,000 years reign is revealed no less than SIX times in SIX different passages of SCRIPTURE…

Rev 20:
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Thanks for revealing YOUR POV that your understanding TRUMPS Gods EXPRESS approved revelations. FAIL!

Do you believe these martyred saints will be bodily resurrected again to live and reign with Christ for one thousand years on this earth after the return of Christ? If so, how do you reconcile that with the fact that it is written there will be none bodily resurrected again before an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds on the last day? Please show from the Bible how you reconcile these verses and passages of Scripture with your one thousand years doctrine? If you cannot reconcile what you believe from the Word of God, you might just as well throw away your Bible because you have made it to be a convoluted, contradictory MESS!

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39 (KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[rwb]

Regarding Christ 1,000 years reign is revealed no less than SIX times in SIX different passages of SCRIPTURE…

Rev 20:
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Thanks for revealing YOUR POV that your understanding TRUMPS Gods EXPRESS approved revelations. FAIL!

That's not revealing six times, that's John repeating six times how the thousand years are to be understood. You have only Rev 20 nothing else from the Word of God to prove what you assume! And not even Rev 20 proves your unbiblical doctrines true.

 

[WPM]

I said: "God's wrath is also continually upon the wicked. That is nothing new."

You replied:

News to me…..since Scripture says no such thing.
Scripture reveals God IS Continually ANGRY at men who ARE AGAINST HIM.
Scripture reveals WRATH is the EFFECTS of Gods ANGER.
Scripture reveal Gods WRATH was ONCE Reveals and so shall it AGAIN be REVEALED…WHEN “HE” at a specific TIME … Order the SEVEN bowls to be poured OUT upon those AGAINST Him.

Your ERROR…God does not “continually” pour out his Wrath!

I am quite familiar and confident with Gods Order and Way to PREPARE and Deliver those that ARE HIs, Long Before His tribulations and wrath are sent down from Heaven…to plague the Earth and it’s inhabitants.

It would help if you would study a subject biblically before voicing your opinions online.

John the Baptist said in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

Colossians 3:6 says, “the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience.”

Ephesians 5:5-6 says, “For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.”

Romans 5:9-10 says, “being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.”

1 Thessalonians 5:9 says, “God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.”

If believers are expressly not appointed to wrath then no believer in any age is appointed to wrath. This point is confirmed in Romans 5:9: “being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”

Ephesians 5:6, "Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience."

 

[Super Kal]

The majority of the ECFs were not Premil. Where do you get this from?

Do you believe in biblical corroboration?

that just shows how much you actually havent studied this...

In as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years will it be concluded. . . . For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years. In six days created things were completed. It is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand year. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.557.

The days will come in which vines having ten thousand branches will grow. In each branch, there will be ten thousand twigs, and in each shoot there will be ten thousand clusters. Each cluster will have ten thousand grapes, and every grape will give twenty-five metretes of wine, when pressed. . . . In like manner, a grain of wheat will produce ten thousand ears. Irenaeus, citing Papias (c. 120, E), 1.153, 154.

Among these things, Papias says that there will be a millennium after the resurrection from the dead, when the personal reign of Christ will be established on this earth. Eusebius, citing Papias (c. 120, E), 1.154.

I and others who are right-minded Christians on all points are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built. . . . For Isaiah spoke in that manner concerning this period of a thousand years. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.239.

There was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.240.

The Sabbath is the type and symbol of the future kingdom of the saints, when they shall reign with Christ after He comes from heaven, as John says in his Revelation. For “a day with the Lord is as a thousand years.” Hippolytus (c. 205, W), 5.179.

We do confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth, although before heaven. Only, it will be in another state of existence. For it will be after the resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of Jerusalem “let down from heaven.” Tertullian (c. 207, W), 3.342.

The Amen sends flames on the nations. And the Medes and Persians burn for a thousand years, as the apocalyptic words of John declare. After a thousand years, they will be delivered over to Gehenna. And he whose work they were is burned up with them. Commodianus (c. 240, W), 4.211.

The true Sabbath will be in the seventh millennium of years, when Christ will reign with His elect. Victorinus (c. 280, W), 7.342.

Taking my journey and going forth from the Egypt of this life, I came first to the resurrection, which is the true Feast of the Tabernacles. There, I set up my tabernacle, adorned with the fruits of virtue, on the first day of the resurrection, which is the Day of Judgment. And I celebrate with Christ the millennium of rest, which is called the seventh day, even the true Sabbath. Methodius (c. 290, E), 6.347.

The dead will rise again . . . to reign with God for a thousand years. Lactantius (c. 304–313, W), 7.218.

and when it concerns Eusebius, those are direct quotes from his own writings...
You know, for someone like you to make a claim about the early church fathers and yet have absolutely no idea about what they taught, I don't think you have any authority to say what the early church did and did not believe

 

[Taken]

Scripture is NOT a convoluted mess.
ALL Scripture is True.
ALL Scripture does NOT APPLY to every individual.

Scripture is NOT a host of One Liner EXPLANATIONS!

It is the PROPER passages that speak to the knowledge of an EXPRESS point of topic…
It is multiple passages that expand the knowledge of an EXPRESS point of topic…

It is the Lord God Himself that is the source FOR “UNDERSTANDING”….explaining, interpreting the passages of the knowledge IN Scripture that the Lord God Himself APPROVED!

Rev 3:10 is SPECIFIC to those who HAVE kept Gods Word….if that isn’t you…it doesn’t apply to you.

Rev 3:10 is NOTICE TO those who HAVE kept Gods word…to be EPT from the hour of temptation….if that isn’t you … it doesn’t apply to you.

Rev 3:10 is NOTICE of being KEPT FROM a particular time frame….the hour of Temptation….If you do not KNOW what is the time frame of the HOUR OF TEMPTATION….YOUR duty to read and research and study to discover what the HOUR OF TEMPTATION IS…..
And YOUR DUTY, to decide IF you WANT to be KEPT FROM the HOUR OF TEMPTATION…(or not)…IF so…IT REQUIRES KEEPING the word of God….YOUR OWN freewill choice…regardless of what OTHERS CHOOSE!

Be advised…NOT EVERY individual freely makes the same choices…WHAT YOU do or do not choose SHALL ONLY AFFECT YOU.

YOUR JOB is to KNOW what applies TO YOU (your standing) and WHY…
YOUR JOB is NOT to contort your face in anger and flap your tongue and point your accusatory finger …. Because you are IGNORANT of an others CHOICES to read, study, elections to submit to OPTONS according to Gods Order and Way…and RECEIVE the Blessing of God UNTO THEM for Choosing Gods Offering of HIS KEEPING THEM … WITH Him FOREVER…FROM the HOUR OF TEMPTATION…FROM Gods TRIBULATIONS…FROM WRATH sent down from Heaven…FROM EVIL spirits…FROM Ever being Separated from God…

The same is OFFERED TO ALL MEN….ONLY YOU are accountable for YOUR CHOICES. IF it is YOUR choice to be IGNORANT of Gods “OFFERED CHOICES to forever be with Him”….Embrace it…Stand with it…and stop sticking your nose in what others CHOOSE…
You have ZERO knowledge of what others read, study, accept, regarding “their” one on one relationship with the Lord God…
THEIR one on one relationship with God…IS about them and God…NOT YOU.
Stop pretending you have the qualification or authority to dictate what does and does not “make logical sense to you” or “spiritually applies” to specific individuals…especially that you DO NOT personally KNOW!
Worry about yourself…be-cuz you project yourself as a meddler without being armed with the tools of righteousness.

Rev 3:10
[10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.