A few shall be left

[Stewardofthemystery]

But, somehow you differentiate between Isaiah 65:17-25 and Revelation 21:1-4. Why? You have them contradicting each other. And you don't even care! You only care about making scripture say what you want it to say instead.


Of course. Who said otherwise? But, nowhere does Isaiah 65:20 indicate that it's only talking about Gentiles. You are making that up. You are missing that it is figuratively describing eternity there in a way people back then could understand. They didn't have a concept of eternity in OT times like we've had in NT times, so Isaiah accounted for that.


LOL. I believe that death is not put away until AFTER the thousand years is complete as well. You saying that as if I would disagree with that shows that you still don't even understand what Amils believe. You're trying to refute something you don't even understand! That's ridiculous and can't be done. So, don't tell me I'm not agreeing with the words of God. I agree with them completely. I disagree with YOU and YOUR interpretations of the words of God. You still have done NOTHING to reconcile Isaiah 65:17-25 and Revelation 21:1-4 together. I have. When do you plan on doing that? Or do you plan on continuing to make Isaiah 65:17-25 contradict Revelation 21:1-4?

The new earth obviously can't both have sin and death on it and have no more death on it. So, which is true about the new heavens and new earth? I've made up my mind about that. How about you? You better make up your mind because it's unacceptable to set scripture against itself the way you're doing with Isaiah 65:17-25 and Revelation 21:1-4.

In your mind they contradict because you do not believe in a literal thousand year reign of Christ on earth with his saints. There has to be “a few men left” in order to repopulate the earth “as the sand of the sea” in number during the thousand years.

God said He was going leave a sixth part of the Nations….

Ezekiel 39:2
And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

LOL. How in the world can any mortals survive the burning up of the earth? Why do you interpret 2 Peter 3:7-13 based on Isaiah 24:6 instead of the other way around? Don't you know that the NT shines light on the OT prophecies for us? Clearly, 2 Peter 3:7-13 has the entire earth being burned up, or else Peter wouldn't say in verse 13, "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.". In other words he's saying despite the heavens and the new earth being burned up, we still look forward to a new heavens and a new earth where righteousness dwells. The heavens and the earth will not be annihilated, but rather will be dissolved and renewed (made completely new) resulting in the new heavens and new earth.

Why do you not even address my belief that the "few men left" refer to those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord? Why can't it refer to that? Are you afraid to address that question? You're always trying to avoid any challenges to your view. You're very cowardly in that way. Trying to get you to address my points is like pulling teeth. If you're going to come here and make claims the way you do then you need to be able to back them up if you want to be taken seriously.

The same way some animals will also survive….

Isaiah 11:6
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Isaiah 65:25
The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

 

[WPM]

Notice people will still be "sinning and dying" after the new heavens an new earth....

Isaiah 65:17-25 “For, behold, I create "new heavens and a new earth": and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child "shall die"an hundred years old; but "the sinner"being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of
a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord."

Many believe the above verses from Isaiah are speaking of after the millennial reign of Christ on earth because it speaks of new heavens and a new earth. But notice in verse 20 above there are people who are still "dying and sinning". This cannot be the saints who are of the "first resurrection" because we are told the second death has no power over them.(Rev. 20:6) Also, if people are still "dying" it means the last enemy (which is death) has not been destroyed yet, as shown here....

1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Death is eliminated when Jesus comes. So will sin and sinners. Let us have a literal word-by-word look at the Hebrew pertaining to Isaiah 65:20.

לֹא־יִֽהְיֶ֨ה מִשָּׁ֜ם עֹ֗וד ע֤וּל יָמִים֙ וְזָקֵ֔ן אֲשֶׁ֥ר
Lo'- yihªyeh mishaam `owd `uwl yaamiym wªzaaqeen 'ªsher
Not be hence more an infant [of] days, an old man after

לֹֽא־יְמַלֵּ֖א אֶת־יָמָ֑יו כִּ֣י הַנַּ֗עַר בֶּן־מֵאָ֤ה שָׁנָה֙ יָמ֔וּת
Lo'- yªmalee''et- yaamaayw Kiy hana`ar ben- mee'aah shaanaah yaamuwt
Not fulfill your days inasmuch a child old an hundred years die

What is this telling us?

The exact same thing, only in different terms.

This is called synonymous parallelism. It is telling us that a child will never become old on the new earth. This line reinforces what has just been said. It confirms the thought of the impending reality of no more death in the eternal state for the righteous. In eternity there will be no more aging or dying. It is not going to be like our corrupt age where infants eventually get old. It will not be like the here-and-now where a man could live to be an old person of a hundred years of age and then die.

This passage is actually saying the opposite to what many think. What this is saying is: there will be no more aging, curse or death on the new earth. Every glorified saints will have come to full maturity in Christ with their new perfect eternal bodies. It is the next line of Isaiah 65:20 that has confused many, because the translators have not interpreted it in a literal word-for-word sense. It is not saying there will be more babies, death and old men. It is saying the opposite to what they are alleging. It is saying that there will be no more aging: children getting old, old people and people dying! It is describing eternity to an Old Testament audience in terms they can grasp.

The new heavens and new earth will indeed be a glorious victorious perfect state where death is unknown. God is saying that the eternal state will actually be free of death for young and old alike. This passage is telling us that there will be no more death on the new earth! The Hebrew word Lo' (Strong’s 3808) means “no” or “not.” The word is a simple negation. The word is found twice in this much-debated new heavens and new earth verse.

Debate in Isaiah 65:20 centers in on the use of the original word yaamuw meaning “die” or “death.” What should we relate it to? Is there indeed “death” on the new earth? Also, should the death be related to the “child” in the second phrase or the “sinner” in the third phrase? What is more, in what way should it read? I must admit, if we are to read it in its most natural way it fits perfectly with the context. So why change it? I believe it should be applied to the “child” as it should agree with the first phrase that is simply a reinforcement of the same truth. It then fits perfectly with the whole overall teaching of the prophet on the perfection and bliss of the eternal state.

No (Lo') longer will an infant become like an old man,
No (Lo') longer will a child reach one hundred and die.

This is Old Testament verbiage that describes eternity to the Old Testament listener. It is telling us: no one is going to age! This relates to the new heaven and new earth not some supposed future millennium – that will never happen.

The original Hebrew does not give us any reason to attribute death to the “child” in this second line. In fact, it does not fit the whole context which is evidently speaking of the removal of aging and death on the new earth. Interpreting it as we have, seems to (1) match the original, (2) make sense to its context, and (3) taps into the thrust of what the prophet was trying to relay. We need to remind ourselves that the whole idea here is describing the incredible eternal deliverance from the curse of corruption and the joy that “the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind” on the “new earth.”

 

[jeffweeder]

Why can't the few who survive be those who are alive and remain (are left) that Paul references in 1 Thess 4:14-17? Why does it have to be mortal unbelievers? Who exactly are these mortal unbelievers that you believe will survive Christ's return?

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Passages like this one indicate that Jesus will be destroying "them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:". These are the ones who will experience unexpected "sudden destruction" from which "they shall not escape" when He comes like a thief in the night (1 Thess 5:2-3).

Will these mortal unbelievers who you believe will survive Christ's return not fit the description of being "them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ"?

What do you think that Paul meant when he said in 1 Thess 5:3 "they shall not escape"? Do you think he actually meant that most of them will not escape, but some will?

What about Matthew 25:31-46? Do you see a third group besides the sheep and goats of mortal unbelieving survivors of Christ's return who are allowed to continue living on the earth? Why would they not be among the goats/cursed who will be cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41) at that point? What makes them different from those unbelievers?

Well said.
Nothing makes them any different. All would have the mark of the beast at that point and their fate is just as certain as any unbeliever at the second coming...,

Rev 14
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “Whoever worships the beast and his image and receives the mark [of the beast] on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he too will [have to] drink of the wine of the wrath of God, mixed undiluted into the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone (flaming sulfur) in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb (Christ). 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night—those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”


That fact alone makes a future millennium impossible as its unpopulated.

Rev 19
20 And the beast (Antichrist) was seized and overpowered, and with him the false prophet who, in his presence, had performed [amazing] signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were hurled alive into the lake of fire which blazes with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds fed ravenously and gorged themselves with their flesh.

Nobody is in any condition to breed right?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Death is eliminated when Jesus comes. So will sin and sinners.

Death is the last enemy to be destroyed AFTER the thousand year reign of Christ on earth with His saints.

1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[WPM]

Death is the last enemy to be destroyed AFTER the thousand year reign of Christ on earth with His saints.

1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Exactly. This happens at the second coming, which correlates with the end of the millennium. This confirms Amillennialism, and this forbids Premillennialism.

Isaiah 24:17-33 declares: “Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth. And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish (פּקד - pâqad) the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited (פּקד - pâqad). Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.”

This is speaking of the build up to, and the arrival of, the Second Advent. This sees God pouring out His judgment upon His enemies and the regeneration of the universe. I don't see any mention of, or allowance for, a millennium in Isaiah 24.

Isaiah 25:7-9, 26:19-27:1 continues, “he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it. And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation … Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon.”

Isaiah describes the coming of the Lord and associates this with the destruction of the wicked. He also outlines the resurrection of the dead that accompanies this great concluding event in history. He also confirms that this is the time when Satan is finally slain.

This is also the time when Christ “will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth.” Here is glorification outlined. Here is the deliverance of God’s people from the bondage of corruption. Here is when death receives its final end.

Isaiah shows how God’s people inherit the eternal state when Jesus comes. They are suitably attired in perfection to inherit the perfected age and glorified earth to come. This is a prerequisite to entering the new arrangement.

Premils populate the age to come with countless mortal sinners that feign their allegiance to Christ and then rebel en-mass in their billions (as the sand of the sea) to follow their true master Satan. This will never happen. Multiple Scripture forbids that.

 

[WPM]

Death is the last enemy to be destroyed AFTER the thousand year reign of Christ on earth with His saints.

1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 declares: “For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”

1 Corinthians 15:50-54 continues: “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.”

The prime focus of these passages is “the resurrection of the dead” and the termination of death. This is the time when corruption is finally banished from the earth forever. This is the occasion when the redeemed "inherit the kingdom of God." This is the much-anticipated arrival of the new creation in all its visible, glorious, perfect and eternal glory.

But when does this happen?

Both of these passages demonstrate that this occurs at the “coming” (or parousia) of the Lord, which is described as “the last trump.” It also confirms that this ushers in “the end.” This is the closing curtain of time, sin, corruption and mortality. We are now into eternity. No one could therefore argue with any validity that death is not finally and eternally destroyed at the second coming, the time here denoted as “the end.”

Only the perfected inherit the coming earth

These texts demonstrate that for one to inherit the age and state to come, glorification is necessary: “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” The kingdom age to come (after this age) is perfect. It is incorrupt. Every vestige of the Fall is removed. No mortal can inherit/inhabit or possess this great incorrupt state. It is solely the domain of the glorified. It is eternal. It is not governed by time, as our age is. Time indeed shall be no more when Jesus returns.

This eliminates the oft-stated Premillennial claim that the unsaved can in fact inhabit the new earth. Regardless of whether one is saved or not, if they aren’t glorified, they cannot inherit the new earth. No mortal shall inhabit it.

It is plain to see from these texts: for man to be able to inherit the new glorified earth – which is totally free of the curse – he must be adequately prepared for it. The eternal state is indeed a prepared place for a prepared people.

Man’s whole sinful makeup must be completely changed in order to allow him to grace it. Every vestige of the Fall must be divested before entering into that new arrangement. This is accomplished by way of glorification. The invisible inner man is not only changed (as in conversion), but Paul speaks of a complete bodily change. Whilst we have “earthly” bodies now, at the Lord’s coming we will have new “spiritual” bodies. Our current bodies that are corruptible must be changed into incorruptible ones, so that no trace of the curse remains. Paul presents glorification as the means by which this supernatural metamorphous occurs.

Our “earthly” bodies will be changed to “spiritual” bodies that are completely devoid of sin and corruption. The saints will undergo the same simultaneous transformation that creation experiences. The creature is thus then adequately prepared to inherit the new incorrupt glorified earth. Both can now live in perfect harmony in God’s new eternal order. This arrangement will never again be blighted by the bondage of corruption. Man and creation enter into a new irreversible eternal arrangement.

Then [Gr. tote]

Let us zoom in on the end of this passage: “So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then [Gr. tote] shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” (1 Corinthians 15:54-55).

Here is irrefutable evidence of when “death” is finally defeated and “swallowed up in victory.” It occurs when the redeemed are glorified. It is realized “when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality.” This exposes the Premillennialism paradigm. It forbids its actual possibility. This passage proves that it happens at the second coming of Christ.

Premillennialist writer Alexander Reese confirms the meaning of the Greek word tote in The Approaching Advent of Christ, whilst referring to another parallel second coming passage in Matthew 13:43, saying, “Then (tote, at that time) shall the righteous shine forth.”

So, it is "then" (tote) at the last trump, and not till then, that death is finally defeated. The glorification of the saints at the second coming sees “death” being “swallowed up in victory.” It is here that “death” finally loses its “sting” and the “grave” loses its “victory.” Why? Because “the last enemy” is here eternally “destroyed.” There is no allowance for some supposed future millennium.

The deliverance of the righteous and the destruction of all rebellion

As Jesus comes and rescues ‘the just’ in the twinkling of an eye He also destroys ‘the unjust’. These passages distinctly describe the end. Those “in Adam all die.” The second coming is shown to be the termination of all rebellion. It is the time “when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." But equally, “in Christ shall all be made alive.” This is the time “when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father.” It is clear that everything is tied up at the end (“His coming”).

The phrase “he shall have delivered up” comes from the single Greek word paradidomi meaning surrender, yield up, intrust, or transmit. This is what happens to the kingdom when Christ comes. He surrenders it to His Father, He yields it up.

The converse phrase “he shall have put down” comes from the single Greek word katargeo meaning: bring to nought, none effect, or abolish.

This is what happens to “all” existing “rule and all authority and power” when Jesus Comes. The rule of man comes to an end and now it becomes the rule of God.

After telling us that Christ’s coming sees the termination of the wicked and their evil operations, the writer tells us that Christ’s reign over His enemies must continue until this climactic point. Whilst “all power” is now assuredly given unto Christ “in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18) through His life, death and resurrection, and whilst through this victorious work “he hath put all things under his feet” in a sovereign manner, we have not yet seen the final subduing of wickedness.

God’s purpose is that the entire creation will be regenerated. That is, the whole universe will be freed from the curse of corruption and degeneration. In intent is to bring a whole new order when He returns that will be marked by righteousness and eternality. A new regenerated creation will welcome a freshly perfected redeemed people. We are therefore looking at universal regeneration.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Exactly. This happens at the second coming, which correlates with the end of the millennium. This confirms Amillennialism, and this forbids Premillennialism.

The second coming of Christ is the start point of the thousand years, you “Amils”do greatly err.

 

[WPM]

The second coming of Christ is the start point of the thousand years, you “Amils”do greatly err.

More Avoidance. More resulting error. You seem incapable of addressing the truth. You refuse to address the multiple contradictions in your position.

Let the Bible speak for itself.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Let the Bible speak for itself.

The Word of God does speak for Himself, but you do not speak for Him.

 

[WPM]

The Word of God does speak for Himself, but you do not speak for Him.

Your evasive soundbites (private interpretation) do nothing for your cause. They only serve to reinforce Amil. Premils seems incapable of exegesis.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Your evasive soundbites (private interpretation) do nothing for your cause. They only serve to reinforce Amil. Premils seems incapable of exegesis.

The interpretation belongs to God and to those whom He chooses to reveal it to by His Spirit.

 

[ScottA]

During the thousand year reign of Christ the earth is to be repopulated by those who are left. We know this because after the thousand year reign Satan is once again loosed to deceive the nations, and gather them to battle against the saints. The number of which is shown in Revelation 20:8 as "the sand of the sea" in number.

So Yes, there will be some people left on earth after the cleansing by fire. We know this by the words of God; just as Jesus said except those days are shortened "no flesh" would survive.” This indicates that some who are still of the flesh will survive.

We are told in 2 Peter 3:7-13 “But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat.
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

The Lord said He would make man rare in number on earth, like the finest of gold. And He also said a "few men" shall be left.

Isaiah 24:6
Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and "few men" left.

Notice people will still be "sinning and dying" after the new heavens an new earth....

Isaiah 65:17-25 “For, behold, I create "new heavens and a new earth": and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child "shall die"an hundred years old; but "the sinner"being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of
a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord."

Many believe the above verses from Isaiah are speaking of after the millennial reign of Christ on earth because it speaks of new heavens and a new earth. But notice in verse 20 above there are people who are still "dying and sinning". This cannot be the saints who are of the "first resurrection" because we are told the second death has no power over them.(Rev. 20:6) Also, if people are still "dying" it means the last enemy (which is death) has not been destroyed yet, as shown here....

1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

So we can only conclude that the passages above from Isaiah 65 are during the millennial reign of Christ on earth. We also see prior to death being destroyed Satan is loosed again and goes out and deceives "the nations"....


Revelation 20:7-8 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to "deceive the nations" which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

These revived nations are shown here in Daniel 7:12 "As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for "a season and a time"." (= a thousand years)

In order for there to be "nations" as the number of the sand of the sea, there has to be those who are of "the flesh" that survive the cleansing of fire mentioned by Peter. And these survivors are the ones who can still sin and die during the millennial reign of Christ on earth. These survivors are also the ones who will repopulate the earth during this time. And they are the ones who will be "deceived" when Satan is let loose after the thousand years. So you will have mortals and immortals on the earth at the same time.

It all makes perfect sense when you put all the pieces together. Peace and God bless.

Unfortunately, false teachers already at work during the early church developed the now commonly believed, but false doctrine, of kicking the timeline can down the road to an unknown time in the future; which they did against the clear indication given by Jesus that things would actually occur "soon" thereafter, and "must shortly come to pass."

And there's more.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In your mind they contradict because you do not believe in a literal thousand year reign of Christ on earth with his saints. There has to be “a few men left” in order to repopulate the earth “as the sand of the sea” in number during the thousand years.

God said He was going leave a sixth part of the Nations….

Ezekiel 39:2
And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

How does your interpretation of Isaiah 65:17-25 not contradict Revelation 21:1-4? They are both about the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth. You say that Isaiah 65:17-25 indicates that there will be death on the new earth and John said there shall be no more death on the new earth. Don't tell me you are not making those passages contradict each other. You most certainly are. If you think you're not, then prove it. Do you think John didn't really mean to say that there will be no more death on the new earth? How do you explain him saying that in light of your understanding of Isaiah 65:17-25?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your evasive soundbites (private interpretation) do nothing for your cause. They only serve to reinforce Amil. Premils seems incapable of exegesis.

Absolutely. Any time his view is challenged he does not address it. He just repeats things he already said. This is typical of how premils cherry pick scripture to support their doctrine while ignoring or twisting other scripture. He can't even acknowledge that he has Isaiah 65:17-25 contradicting Revelation 21:1-4. Both are clearly in relation to the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth. He says there will be death on the new earth because of how he interprets Isaiah 65:17-25. That blatantly contradicts John saying that there will be no more death on the new earth. And he doesn't care! He could not care less if his doctrine is contradictory because it's more important to just believe whatever he wants to believe.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The second coming of Christ is the start point of the thousand years, you “Amils”do greatly err.

Yet, you are completely incapable of giving any response when we point out the errors in your view. You have scripture contradicting itself (pitting Isaiah 65:17-25 against Revelation 21:1-4) and you do NOTHING to reconcile it. You don't even care. And you say we greatly err? LOL. We do not have scripture contradicting itself like you do.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Death is the last enemy to be destroyed AFTER the thousand year reign of Christ on earth with His saints.

1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Can you show me where Paul alludes to the thousand years in any way, shape or form in this passage:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

In your view it says "...Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the thousand years that He reigns on earth. Then cometh Satan's little season. Then cometh the end...". You are trying to add something to scripture that isn't there. You won't allow Paul to teach you the truth about this. You have to twist Paul's words instead because it's more important to you to keep your doctrine afloat than to accept what Paul taught.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 declares: “For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”

1 Corinthians 15:50-54 continues: “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.”

The prime focus of these passages is “the resurrection of the dead” and the termination of death. This is the time when corruption is finally banished from the earth forever. This is the occasion when the redeemed "inherit the kingdom of God." This is the much-anticipated arrival of the new creation in all its visible, glorious, perfect and eternal glory.

But when does this happen?

Both of these passages demonstrate that this occurs at the “coming” (or parousia) of the Lord, which is described as “the last trump.” It also confirms that this ushers in “the end.” This is the closing curtain of time, sin, corruption and mortality. We are now into eternity. No one could therefore argue with any validity that death is not finally and eternally destroyed at the second coming, the time here denoted as “the end.”

Only the perfected inherit the coming earth

These texts demonstrate that for one to inherit the age and state to come, glorification is necessary: “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” The kingdom age to come (after this age) is perfect. It is incorrupt. Every vestige of the Fall is removed. No mortal can inherit/inhabit or possess this great incorrupt state. It is solely the domain of the glorified. It is eternal. It is not governed by time, as our age is. Time indeed shall be no more when Jesus returns.

This eliminates the oft-stated Premillennial claim that the unsaved can in fact inhabit the new earth. Regardless of whether one is saved or not, if they aren’t glorified, they cannot inherit the new earth. No mortal shall inhabit it.

It is plain to see from these texts: for man to be able to inherit the new glorified earth – which is totally free of the curse – he must be adequately prepared for it. The eternal state is indeed a prepared place for a prepared people.

Agree! It should not go unnoticed that Isaiah 25:8 is quoted in both of the following verses which means they both are directly related to each other:

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

Only doctrinal bias can prevent someone from seeing that the timing of the fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8 is found in BOTH 1 Corinthians 15:54 AND Revelation 21:4. To have 1,000+ years separating the fulfillment of 1 Cor 15:54 and Rev 21:4, as premils do, is ludicrous! They make Paul out to be a fool because he taught that our bodies being changed to be incorruptible and immortal at the last trumpet brings about the fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8. But, premil contradicts that and has Isaiah 25:8 being fulfilled 1,000+ years later instead. We can see in Revelation 21:4 that the fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8 results in there being no more death, so that is why Paul said death will be swallowed up in victory at the last trump while citing Isaiah 25:8. Death being swallowed up in victory shows that the last enemy, death, will be destroyed at that point.

Premils won't acknowledge that when Paul said death will be swallowed up in victory at the last trumpet in 1 Cor 15:51-54, he was not only saying that would bring the fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8, but he was also alluding to what he said a bit earlier in verse 26 about the last enemy, death, being destroyed. He was indicating that the timing of the last enemy, death, being destroyed would be at the last trumpet. If death being swallowed up in victory doesn't relate directly to the destruction and defeat of death, then I don't know what does.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The second coming of Christ is the start point of the thousand years, you “Amils”do greatly err.

When do you think this will happen in relation to the second coming of Christ:

Matthew 13:40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

How does your interpretation of Isaiah 65:17-25 not contradict Revelation 21:1-4? They are both about the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth. You say that Isaiah 65:17-25 indicates that there will be death on the new earth and John said there shall be no more death on the new earth. Don't tell me you are not making those passages contradict each other. You most certainly are. If you think you're not, then prove it. Do you think John didn't really mean to say that there will be no more death on the new earth? How do you explain him saying that in light of your understanding of Isaiah 65:17-25?

The end of this present world happens at the second coming of Christ.


Matthew 13:39
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Matthew 13:40
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Matthew 13:49
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,