When are the dead and living in Christ caught up to the Lord?

[Timtofly]

And here is why Premillennialism should be rejected out of hand. Premillennialists dismiss passage after passage that clearly and explicitly depict a climatic return of the Lord Jesus Christ and defaults to their mistaken opinion of Revelation 20. They interpret the whole Bible through the lens of their faulty opinion of one symbolic chapter three chapters before the end of the book in the most figurative and obscure book in the Bible. That is all they have. They have zero corroboration in the rest of the Bible.

So do Amil. They interpret the entire Bible through the lense of there not being a future Day of the Lord.

 

[The Light]

Where did he say he has the church going through the wrath of God? Show me.

He, and you, have the Church being raptured sometime around the 7th trumpet which means the Church has to be on earth during the wrath of God. WE ARE NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH.

Does he claim that the church will go through the "sudden destruction" from which unbelievers "shall not escape" on the day of the Lord (1 Thess 5:2-3)? Does he claim that the church will be on the earth when fire is coming down on the entire earth on the day of the Lord, as Peter described (2 Peter 3:10-12)? I'm sure he didn't. So, what is your excuse for making false accusations like this?

He can't find the rapture in the book of Revelation. And your futile attempt to do so, is left totally wanting.

 

[The Light]

The Day of the Lord is the events that last 1,000 years after the Second Coming. The Day of the Lord that has not happened yet.

I noticed you got silent when I produced scriptures that proved your contention was wrong. You will never understand endtimes if you are unable to change your beliefs when scripture proves you wrong.

So you contend "the Day of the Lord is the events that last 1,000 years after the Second Coming" The following proves you are in error.

The day of the Lord is a dreadful day, a day of darkness and destruction.

Malachi 4
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

Isaiah 13
6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

Isaiah 13
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Joel 1
15 Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Joel 2
11 And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

Joel 5
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

Joel 3
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

Amos 5
20 Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

There are plenty of other verses if you are not convinced that the day of the Lord is not the 1000-year millennial kingdom.

 

[Timtofly]

Before analyzing Matthew 25:31-34, 41, 46 further, a straight, yet important, question must be asked in relation to this familiar parable: Are the sheep (who we must all agree are the righteous) and the goats (who we must all agree are the wicked) standing before the same throne at the same time or are they standing before two different thrones separated by 1,000 years? The answer should be very simple to the unbiased / un-indoctrinated mind: the same throne at the same time. Furthermore, when does this all-encompassing event occur? Again, to those who view this passage in the straightforward manner that it is described, they can only have one answer: it is the one final future coming of Christ. This is plainly and unambiguously revealed in the text: “When the son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him.” It is at this climactic stage that all will finally see Christ resplendently “sit upon the throne of his glory” in judgment. It is then that He will judge all nations.

The Lord only encounters two types of people when He comes – saved and lost or, as it is put in this narrative, sheep and goats. The sheep enter into their eternal inheritance; the goats receive eternal punishment. Nothing could be simpler. Notwithstanding, Premils attempt to create a third group in order to sustain their belief that there is a future millennial age before the new earth that is populated by countless millions of wicked. They depict these as a company of mortals too wicked to be sheep (and therefore raptured) but also too good to be goats (and therefore be destroyed). However, Scripture knows nothing of such half-breeds. We all know there is no half-way house between salvation and being lost. Men are either one or the other. From the graphic detail of this reading we can only conclude: the full amount of the elect are the sheep and the full amount of the wicked are the goats. All men are found in one of these two categories.

These are not dead people. These are humans from out of every nation at the Second Coming. They are Israelites gathered out of all nations. They have not physically died. There are no nations after physical death.

Try not to let the facts get in the way, of your imagined eschatology.

"And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

This is Jesus sitting in Judgment over His people. A Shepherd dividing His sheep. Jesus comes for the lost sheep of Israel. The vast majority will be called goats, and tossed into the LOF.

These are not literal sheep and goats. This is symbolic of the state of Israel, still dispersed among all the nations. This is the fulfillment of Romans 11:25-27

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

Only the remnant will be the sheep. All the sheep will be saved at that point, when Jesus takes away their sin at that point. These are people who inherit the earth for a thousand years. They are not raptured. They are not the church. They will have their sins removed, only at that point. Simple interpretation of why the sheep even have to ask why they are being redeemed.

 

[Timtofly]

Stop taking scripture out of context just to make it fit your doctrine.

You are taking Revelation 20 out of context. You should stop doing that yourself.

 

[Hobie]

So when is the resurrection of the dead, and the living in Christ being caught up to the Lord?


1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall “rise first”: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”


Notice we see #1 the Lord himself decending, #2 the trump of the archangel is sounded, #3 “the dead rise first”and #4 the living are caught up to meet the Lord.

So when do the dead in Christ rise first? The answer is below…

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at “the last day.”

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at “the last day.”

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at “the last day.”

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at “the last day.”

So it is clear, the dead are raised on “the last day”.

Notice the judgment is also on the last day as well….

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in “the last day.”
The Judgment of saints is shown on the last day…. Revelation 20:4 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and “judgment was given unto them:”and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Confirmed here….

Daniel 7:21-22 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and “judgment was given to the saints”of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.”


When do saints posses the kingdoms of this world?

Revelation 11:15 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”


Daniel was told when he shall stand in the lot of his inheritance, and that was not until “the end.”


Daniel 12:13 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at “the end of the days.”


Notice in the above, (Daniel 7:22) Christ first comes and the judgment is given to the saints on the last day.

So when does Christ come?

Son of Gods coming last day….


Luke 17:26-31

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until “the day”that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.30 Even thus shall it be in “the day”when the Son of man is revealed.”


Notice above it was “the day” Noah entered they were destroyed, and “the same day” Lot left Sodom they were destroyed.

At the last day, at the Last Trump….

1Corinthians 15:51-52 “Behold I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at “the last trump:” for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead in Christ shall be raised incorruptable, and we shall be changed”

Notice at “the last trump”the dead are raised, and so what happens at the last trump…


Revelation 10:7 7 But in the days of the voice of “the seventh angel,” when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be “finished,” as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation 11:12 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Revelation 11:15 15 And “the seventh angel sounded;” and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”

Also notice the elect are still on earth during the great tribulation and wrath of God.


Matthew 24:22 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Revelation 7:14 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 16:15 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.


All the scriptures agree there is no resurrection of the dead or the living in Christ until “the last day,”and at “the last trump.”

Very good study..

 

[Timtofly]

Premils are always making scripture say what they want it to say. They don't take Jesus at His word when He said an hour, not hours, is coming when all the dead will be raised (John 5:28-29).

They don't take Jesus at His word when He indicates that all people, saved and lost, will be gathered and judged at the same time (Matt 13:36-43, Matt 13:47-50, Matt 25:31-46).

They don't accept that Paul taught that Jesus's resurrection was the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20).

They don't accept when Jesus said just as all unbelievers were killed by the flood in Noah's day and all unbelievers in Sodom were killed in Lot's day "Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed" (Luke 17:30). They instead insist that some unbelievers will somehow survive His second coming despite what Jesus indicated. And despite what Paul indicated in 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Thess 1:7-10 and what Peter indicated in 2 Peter 3:10-12. As if Jesus and these NT authors didn't have as much understanding as the OT prophets whose prophecies premils base their doctrine on.

Amils are always making Scripture say what they want it to say, instead of the straightforward written words. Are you still dead? Did you not experience the second birth? Why do you claim those with eternal life are still called "the dead"? Why are you still in your grave? Have you not been spiritually resurrected out of your grave? Obviously the church will not be in a grave at that last hour, as you imagine in your interpretation.

You do realize that God can reserve the right to redeem those at the GWT Judgment? God will judge them by their works, unless you missed that. Jesus was not wrong:

"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

I ask again, are you saved by grace, through faith or by doing good?

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

"and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Why are you equating the gift of God to human works? Those of the second birth are not found at all at this GWT Judgment event.

Also this does not say resurrected. A resurrection is to eternal life, even by your interpretation of a first resurrection. Neither John 5 nor Revelation 20 specify a physical resurrection at all across the board for all. That is something you assume, in your "single verse eschatology". Making Scripture sat what you want it to say.

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth;"

Coming out of a grave would be impossible in your scenario or any scenario if there is no earth at all. Kinda hard to come out of something that does not even exist, yes?

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

You have to explain why the heaven and earth are gone, but the sea, grave, and death are still there. They are emptied out, not "resurrected from". A resurrection to physical life out of the state of death, would be receiving the second birth at that point. Not that any already had the second birth, waiting to be resurrected.

Was Jesus saying the grave included the sea and death, or just the grave was emptied out?

John says all in the grave are emptied out, not one left behind, and then John adds the sea and death to what Jesus said. How can you base all your eschatology on one single verse and avoid other verses that do not line up with your interpretation? Certainly you would have to tweak your interpretation to address other verses? Explain to me is the grave the same as sheol, or do you get to decide when it is just the earth, or just sheol? Then explain how there is an earth after you just said it no longer exists? Then explain why those of the second birth are dead in sheol. Why are they still tasting or experiencing death?

My interpretation of Revelation 20 would not be people coming out of their graves, as the earth no longer exists, but out of this literal place called sheol, that now exists separate from the earth and is itself cast into the LOF, either metaphorically or literally, does not really matter. And you still miss the point that in Revelation 19, people are still physically alive, not in their graves symbolically fighting against the Lamb. According to you, all should be physically dead already. Not even a rapture could occur in your "one verse scenario", because they all have to be in a grave or sheol.

You claim we ignore John 5:28. You ignore John 5:25 where the hour already is for those of the second birth. None of the redeemed, who have experienced the second birth, can be honestly included in John 5:28.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live."

And, YES!, God will still redeem some at that last single hour after heaven and earth no longer exist. God is merciful and gracious, and will still accept a "yes, i accept the gift of salvation", at that GWT Judgment event, as an answer.

Remember heaven and earth will pass away, but the Word will never pass away, and even then redemption is extended, based on the Word of God, and not physical creation, or the lack thereof.

 

[Timtofly]

It's all over at the 7th trumpet.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The millennial kingdom is set up when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. The wrath of God is over. There is no 42 months of Satan's empire. That is all past when The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord,

You need to understand what you are reading.............common sense.


It's all over at the 7th trumpet. The millennial kingdom will begin.

When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the 1st six seals.

It is not all over. Jesus is the 7th Kingdom at the 7th Trumpet. Was the 8th Kingdom before the 7th Kingdom?

If there is an 8th kingdom that last for 42 months, the 7th Trumpet will keep sounding until the battle of Armageddon, and only then it will be over. It is not over the first note of the 7th Trumpet, but over when the 7th Trumpet stops sounding. The 7th Trumpet is a minimum of a week of days. The same week as Daniel 9:27. The 7th Trumpet is not a 7 year long event, but the days of the 7th Trumpet. A week of days.

 

[Timtofly]

The day of the Lord is a dreadful day, a day of darkness and destruction.

Malachi 4
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

Isaiah 13
6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

Isaiah 13
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Joel 1
15 Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Joel 2
11 And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

Joel 5
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

Joel 3
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

Amos 5
20 Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

There are plenty of other verses if you are not convinced that the day of the Lord is not the 1000-year millennial kingdom.



What is it with you and Adam? Do you have any scripture to support these claims?

Exactly, the Day of the Lord is not pleasant for the wicked. Does not mean it will not last for a thousand years. Amil deny it will be a thousand years, why do you?

Someone brought Adam up. Adam's disobedience is the reason for punishment on the earth, and the curse of sin and death.

Romans 5:12-14

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

1 Corinthians 15:21-22

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

The Day of the Lord is between the Second Coming and "then cometh the end".

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him."

That is the Day of the Lord, the Millennium Kingdom.

 

[Timtofly]

He has seen the scripture so many times he wants to vomit. It is one of the many things that shows his error.

Here is what it says about the 7 thunders. This has nothing to do with the final harvest.

Revelation 10
2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

The things the seven thunders uttered are sealed up and not written. Matthew 13 has nothing to do with the 7 thunders.

You are wrong in your assessment here. The 7 Thunders happen in the same period of time just after the 6th Trumpet. The final harvest starts with the 1st Trumpet and ends at the 7th when victory is declared. That would include the 7 Thunders even though we are not told what they entail.

This proves that the church and Israel are not even on the earth, because they have no need to be prepared for this time on earth. Only people on the earth during the final harvest will participate. You defeat your own argument that the church and Israel are not on the earth after a certain point.

Saying the 5th Seal is the GT is nonsensical. The Tribulation is not even mentioned in that 5th Seal. The 5th Seal is the church raptured and glorified, as the putting on of the white robes is John's version of Paul saying mortal has put on immortality, or death has put on life in proper English and not Latin transliterated into English. The putting on of white robes happens at the rapture as that is the complete restoration of a son of God. That is the only action that happens in the 5th Seal.

 

[Timtofly]

This does NOT say "them that slept" are the firstfruits, it says Christ Himself rose from the dead and, as a result, became the firstfruits....of them that slept.

Yet you keep stating Jesus was made alive, "becoming the firstfruits". You keep saying Jesus is one of the fruits made alive.

 

[Timtofly]

I noticed you got silent when I produced scriptures that proved your contention was wrong. You will never understand endtimes if you are unable to change your beliefs when scripture proves you wrong.

So you contend "the Day of the Lord is the events that last 1,000 years after the Second Coming" The following proves you are in error.

The day of the Lord is a dreadful day, a day of darkness and destruction.

Malachi 4
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

Isaiah 13
6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

Isaiah 13
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Joel 1
15 Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Joel 2
11 And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

Joel 5
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

Joel 3
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

Amos 5
20 Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

There are plenty of other verses if you are not convinced that the day of the Lord is not the 1000-year millennial kingdom.

Seems you left out the NT mentions of the same Day of the Lord:

2 Peter 3:8-10

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

2 Thessalonians 2:2-3

"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."

That Day will not be pleasant for the wicked.

 

[The Light]

It is not all over. Jesus is the 7th Kingdom at the 7th Trumpet. Was the 8th Kingdom before the 7th Kingdom?

If there is an 8th kingdom that last for 42 months, the 7th Trumpet will keep sounding until the battle of Armageddon, and only then it will be over. It is not over the first note of the 7th Trumpet, but over when the 7th Trumpet stops sounding. The 7th Trumpet is a minimum of a week of days. The same week as Daniel 9:27. The 7th Trumpet is not a 7 year long event, but the days of the 7th Trumpet. A week of days.

It's all over at the 7th trumpet. Christ has set up His kingdom on earth. Why you don't understand what is written, I do not know.''

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[The Light]

Exactly, the Day of the Lord is not pleasant for the wicked. Does not mean it will not last for a thousand years. Amil deny it will be a thousand years, why do you?

Because the Day of the Lord is not the millennial kingdom. The Day of the Lord is the one-year wrath of God. The Day of the Lord is the 7th seal which contains the trumpets and vials of wrath.

 

[The Light]

You are wrong in your assessment here. The 7 Thunders happen in the same period of time just after the 6th Trumpet.

Exactly.

The final harvest starts with the 1st Trumpet and ends at the 7th when victory is declared.

The trumpets have nothing to do with a harvest. They are the trumpets of wrath. They are contained in the 7th seal. There is a rapture when Jesus comes at the 6th seal. There is a rapture before the tribulation. No rapture after the trumpets.

That would include the 7 Thunders even though we are not told what they entail.

This proves that the church and Israel are not even on the earth, because they have no need to be prepared for this time on earth. Only people on the earth during the final harvest will participate. You defeat your own argument that the church and Israel are not on the earth after a certain point.

Not following you. The Church is in heaven before the tribulation begins. The twelve tribes across the earth........the seed of the woman Israel are raptured with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. The only people on earth are the witnesses, those in the nation of Israel that fled to a place of protection and the unrighteous.

Saying the 5th Seal is the GT is nonsensical. The Tribulation is not even mentioned in that 5th Seal. The 5th Seal is the church raptured and glorified, as the putting on of the white robes is John's version of Paul saying mortal has put on immortality, or death has put on life in proper English and not Latin transliterated into English. The putting on of white robes happens at the rapture as that is the complete restoration of a son of God. That is the only action that happens in the 5th Seal.

Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Here is the great tribulation in Revelation 14

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

When you are reading Revelation 13 an 14 you are back in the 1st 6 seal. When you are reading the 1st 6 seals you are reading the events of Matthew 24.

 

[The Light]

Seems you left out the NT mentions of the same Day of the Lord:

2 Peter 3:8-10

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

2 Thessalonians 2:2-3

"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."

That Day will not be pleasant for the wicked.

The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

You might check what happens at the 6th seal.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He, and you, have the Church being raptured sometime around the 7th trumpet which means the Church has to be on earth during the wrath of God. WE ARE NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH.

Nonsense. We have shown that the seventh trumpet is when Christ returns. That is the end. It signals several things as occurring at that point including unbelievers all being destroyed and "the time of the dead, that they should be judged". The dead are judged AFTER the thousand years and Satan's little season (Revelation 20:11-15). You have no response for this. You don't accept what it says will happen at the seventh trumpet.

He can't find the rapture in the book of Revelation. And your futile attempt to do so, is left totally wanting.

LOL. You have nothing of substance to offer. Absolutely nothing. You just make the text say whatever you want it to say. I have said the rapture is portrayed in Revelation 11:12 and Revelation 14:14-16. Do you deny that? Right after the rapture occurs (Revelation 14:14-16), all unbelievers are killed and that is portrayed in Revelation 14:18-20. So, Revelation 14:14-20 is portraying the same event as 1 Thess 4:14-5:3.

Try making a coherent argument for once if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yet you keep stating Jesus was made alive, "becoming the firstfruits". You keep saying Jesus is one of the fruits made alive.

No, that's not what I'm saying. You have no reading comprehension skills whatsoever. I very cleary have said many times that Jesus Himself is the firstfruits and that means He was the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality. You have nothing to offer this forum except for misrepresenting everything you read.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amils are always making Scripture say what they want it to say, instead the straightforward written words.

You just copy things that we say and think you've made an argument. Why are you here? You have no reading comprehension skills at all. You misunderstand everything you read in scripture as well as everything people say to you. You offer nothing of substance to this forum whatsoever.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So do Amil. They interpret the entire Bible through the lense of there not being a future Day of the Lord.

All you can do is lie in response to Amil. You have no coherent arguments to offer. You have no discernment whatsoever. You never have anything of substance to say. No, Amils do not deny a future day of the Lord. We believe it will come in the future like a thief in the night and will result in the sudden destruction of all of Christ's enemies by fire and "they shall not escape" just as scripture teaches (1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Peter 3:10-12).