With the exception of Chapter 11, Chapter 2 might just be the most difficult chapter to unpack and interpret in the Book of Daniel. So, does anyone have a particular verse or series of verses that just seem to defy understanding.... they would like to throw out to the community?
Daniel Chapter 2
- Thread starter CTK
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Keraz
Well-Known Member
- Jun 20, 2018
- 6,172
- 1,072
- 113
- 83
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- New Zealand
I do not see much problem with understanding Daniel 2. It is fairly self explanatory and fits with history, up to the Roman empire, then what will happen in our future.
I like what Amos has to say:
The Day of the Lion, the Bear and the Snake
Amos 5:8-9 He that made the Pleiades and Orion, who turns deep darkness into dawn and darkens day into night. He who summons the waters of the sea and pours them over the earth: Y’hovah is His Name. He makes destruction flash forth upon strongholds.
Amos 5:16-20 Calamity and misfortune will come to those who long for the Day of the Lord. What will that Day mean for you? It will be a Day of darkness, not light, it will be as when someone runs from a lion only to be confronted by a bear! Or to be bitten by a snake in one’s own house! The Day of the Lord will indeed be pitch black, without any ray of light.
Amos 8:7-10 The Lord has sworn by the arrogance of Jacob, I shall not forget their sin and apostasy. Will not the land quake because of this? Will not all who live in it mourn? The whole earth will surge and seeth like the Nile, then subside like the river of Egypt. On that Day, I will darken the world at noon time, all will mourn and lament on that bitter Day. Ref: REB, CJB.
Plainly, obviously and indisputably, this Prophecy does NOT refer to the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. It will be fulfilled by the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, the next Prophesied event we can expect.
‘those who long for the Day of the Lord’. ‘long for, or want’, may be better translated as: ‘bring on, or cause to happen’. This applies to the enemies of the Lord, as they strive to impose their political and religious agendas onto the world; their actions will ‘call forth His wrath’. Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-35, Ezekiel 7:14, Isaiah 24:1
‘Calamity and misfortune will come to them’. The Lord will ‘send fire’, Amos 1:4,7,10,12,14. Amos 2:2 & 5 I shall send fire on Judah, fire to consume the palaces of Jerusalem. That is: the Jewish State of Israel.
But note that in Amos 2:6-16, all Israel, the Western nations, will be punished and their military destroyed. ‘He makes destruction flash forth onto the strongholds’. All things military will be destroyed. Hosea 2:18, Isaiah 34:2
A Coronal Mass Ejection from the sun will literally fulfil all the prophesies of this Day: Isaiah 30:25-28, Jeremiah 50:22-23, Hosea 2:18, Micah 5:10-11, Zephaniah 1:16, Jeremiah 50:27
‘The whole earth will surge and subside, like the Nile’. Massive, worldwide earthquakes will be caused by the microwave penetration of the earth’s crust by this CME. Isaiah 24:18-19, Jeremiah 4:23-24, Revelation 6:14
‘He pours the waters of the sea over the earth’, As the earth ‘reels and shakes’, and is ‘moved from its place’, Isaiah 13:13, the lakes and oceans will move violently from side to side, causing huge tsunamis, that will engulf and devastate all the low-lying areas worldwide. Amos 9:6, Nahum 1:8, Jeremiah 51:42
‘The Day of the Lord, will be pitch black, at noontime’. Zephaniah 2:4 also mentions noon day as the time of this terrible event. However the first sign we will see will be a flash of bright light, Isaiah 30:26, Job 36:32, Psalms 18:14.
Then the huge ejected mass of superheated hydrogen plasma will blot out the sun, as it races toward earth. Isaiah 50:3, Ezekiel 32:7-8, Joel 2:1-2
It will strike the moon first, causing it to glow bright red from the thermoluminescent reaction with the lunar dust, which mainly consists of metallic oxides.
‘Jacob’s arrogant and apostate descendants’. They are the House of Judah – the Jewish people, and the House of Israel – the Western nations; they will all be judged and punished on that Day. Ezekiel 21:1-16, Zechariah 13:7-9, Hosea 7:10, Hosea 8:14, Isaiah 1:25, Luke 21:34-35, 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
I like what Amos has to say:
The Day of the Lion, the Bear and the Snake
Amos 5:8-9 He that made the Pleiades and Orion, who turns deep darkness into dawn and darkens day into night. He who summons the waters of the sea and pours them over the earth: Y’hovah is His Name. He makes destruction flash forth upon strongholds.
Amos 5:16-20 Calamity and misfortune will come to those who long for the Day of the Lord. What will that Day mean for you? It will be a Day of darkness, not light, it will be as when someone runs from a lion only to be confronted by a bear! Or to be bitten by a snake in one’s own house! The Day of the Lord will indeed be pitch black, without any ray of light.
Amos 8:7-10 The Lord has sworn by the arrogance of Jacob, I shall not forget their sin and apostasy. Will not the land quake because of this? Will not all who live in it mourn? The whole earth will surge and seeth like the Nile, then subside like the river of Egypt. On that Day, I will darken the world at noon time, all will mourn and lament on that bitter Day. Ref: REB, CJB.
Plainly, obviously and indisputably, this Prophecy does NOT refer to the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. It will be fulfilled by the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, the next Prophesied event we can expect.
‘those who long for the Day of the Lord’. ‘long for, or want’, may be better translated as: ‘bring on, or cause to happen’. This applies to the enemies of the Lord, as they strive to impose their political and religious agendas onto the world; their actions will ‘call forth His wrath’. Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-35, Ezekiel 7:14, Isaiah 24:1
‘Calamity and misfortune will come to them’. The Lord will ‘send fire’, Amos 1:4,7,10,12,14. Amos 2:2 & 5 I shall send fire on Judah, fire to consume the palaces of Jerusalem. That is: the Jewish State of Israel.
But note that in Amos 2:6-16, all Israel, the Western nations, will be punished and their military destroyed. ‘He makes destruction flash forth onto the strongholds’. All things military will be destroyed. Hosea 2:18, Isaiah 34:2
A Coronal Mass Ejection from the sun will literally fulfil all the prophesies of this Day: Isaiah 30:25-28, Jeremiah 50:22-23, Hosea 2:18, Micah 5:10-11, Zephaniah 1:16, Jeremiah 50:27
‘The whole earth will surge and subside, like the Nile’. Massive, worldwide earthquakes will be caused by the microwave penetration of the earth’s crust by this CME. Isaiah 24:18-19, Jeremiah 4:23-24, Revelation 6:14
‘He pours the waters of the sea over the earth’, As the earth ‘reels and shakes’, and is ‘moved from its place’, Isaiah 13:13, the lakes and oceans will move violently from side to side, causing huge tsunamis, that will engulf and devastate all the low-lying areas worldwide. Amos 9:6, Nahum 1:8, Jeremiah 51:42
‘The Day of the Lord, will be pitch black, at noontime’. Zephaniah 2:4 also mentions noon day as the time of this terrible event. However the first sign we will see will be a flash of bright light, Isaiah 30:26, Job 36:32, Psalms 18:14.
Then the huge ejected mass of superheated hydrogen plasma will blot out the sun, as it races toward earth. Isaiah 50:3, Ezekiel 32:7-8, Joel 2:1-2
It will strike the moon first, causing it to glow bright red from the thermoluminescent reaction with the lunar dust, which mainly consists of metallic oxides.
‘Jacob’s arrogant and apostate descendants’. They are the House of Judah – the Jewish people, and the House of Israel – the Western nations; they will all be judged and punished on that Day. Ezekiel 21:1-16, Zechariah 13:7-9, Hosea 7:10, Hosea 8:14, Isaiah 1:25, Luke 21:34-35, 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
Hope you do not mind, but I have never heard anyone say that before. Especially, verses 41-43.
What is your take on 2:34-35?
Keraz
Well-Known Member
- Jun 20, 2018
- 6,172
- 1,072
- 113
- 83
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- New Zealand
Daniel 2:41-43, are for our situation today, the mix of denominations and beliefs. Followed by the soon to happen verse 44 In that time, God will establish His permanent Kingdom......
Daniel 2:34-35 describe what happens when Jesus Returns. Jesus is the stone which will destroy all the ungodly peoples.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The image of Daniel 2 sets the foundation for every subsequent vision and prophecy from Daniel to Revelation. What God has set down as His word in Daniel 2 cannot be altered to suit one's false theories when it comes to studying Revelation. All subsequent prophecies are to be studied on the principle of 'repeat and enlarge'. That is, once Daniel 2 is understood, any further consideration of later visions must be based on Daniel 2, only with the addition of further detail. Daniel 2 sets the scene, everything else must fit into what Daniel 2 has laid down as the skeleton.
That said, let us settle on what nearly all Bible scholars agree as to what Daniel 2 represents.
Daniel 2:30-45.
The head of gold is clearly identified as the kingdom of Babylon (626-539BC) in verse 38. From history we know that the other 3 kingdoms following Babylon were Media-Persia (539-331BC), Greece (331-168BC) , and Rome (168BC-476AD). Although the Roman empire ruled longer than the other 3 kingdoms put together, it was not succeeded by a fifth world power but was divided up into kingdoms of varying strength, symbolised by the feet of iron and clay, just as the prophecy predicted. These are the nations that make up modern Europe, nations that, to this day, exist as separate national political entities.
The Bible makes it plain that the stone represents Jesus Christ (Isa. 28:16; 1 Cor. 10:4; Luke 20:17,18.) Who at His second advent will destroy all the other kingdoms and establish an everlasting kingdom.
That said, let us settle on what nearly all Bible scholars agree as to what Daniel 2 represents.
Daniel 2:30-45.
The head of gold is clearly identified as the kingdom of Babylon (626-539BC) in verse 38. From history we know that the other 3 kingdoms following Babylon were Media-Persia (539-331BC), Greece (331-168BC) , and Rome (168BC-476AD). Although the Roman empire ruled longer than the other 3 kingdoms put together, it was not succeeded by a fifth world power but was divided up into kingdoms of varying strength, symbolised by the feet of iron and clay, just as the prophecy predicted. These are the nations that make up modern Europe, nations that, to this day, exist as separate national political entities.
The Bible makes it plain that the stone represents Jesus Christ (Isa. 28:16; 1 Cor. 10:4; Luke 20:17,18.) Who at His second advent will destroy all the other kingdoms and establish an everlasting kingdom.
Thanks. I have a new interpretation for you to think about. Verse 2:34 is when the Stone (Messiah) arrives - His first coming and so rules the feet of the image and He breaks apart the iron and the clay into pieces. He does not come to destroy but to divide. The symbolism is that the iron, as in the legs, represents pagan Rome at the time of Christ. The clay represents His people, the Jews who are subjugated by Rome. Like all the nations they conquer, they completely control and dominate their lives in every way.
The Messiah did not come to conquer Rome as the Jews expected Him to, instead, He came to separate the clay from the iron. After the cross, striking the feet, there are now two types of clay separated from the iron: the pottery clay that represents those Jews who would accept Jesus as their Messiah and preach the Good News to the world, and the ceramic clay, that represent those Jews who rejected Him.
Verse 2:35 is truly the second return of Jesus. There are 2000 years between these two verses.
Chapter 2, like most of the coming Hebrew chapters are structured in two sections: the first section is a “dream sequence” section, while the second section is an “interpretation sequence” section. The first is a “summary”, and the second reveals the “details.” Thus, the chapters are not presented in chronological order. Verses 2:41-43 represents the details of events AFTER the Stone strikes the feet.
Give it some thought before you reject it!
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
I do not believe that the forth kingdom is the Roman Empire or that the feet of iron and clay with its ten toes (ten kings) has anything to do with that empire, because the fourth kingdom of Daniel - which is the kingdom that Daniel's prophecies talk about being destroyed by Christ - is linked to the four kingdoms that came out of the kingdom of Greece (which incorporated the lion i.e Babylon, as well as the bear, i.e Media-Persia, and the leopard, i.e the kingdom of Alexander the Great),
and the beast of the Revelation is linked to the leopard, the lion, and the bear.
Daniel 8:20-25
"The ram which you saw having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the shaggy goat is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king. And as for that being broken, and four stood up in its place; four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in its power.
And in the latter time of their kingdom, .."
(in the latter time of the kings of the Greek kingdom after it was divided into four parts)
" ..when the transgressors have come to the full,
a king, fierce of face, and skilled at intrigues, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power.
And he shall destroy marvelously, and shall prosper and work, and destroy the mighty and the holy people. And also through his understanding, he shall cause deceit to succeed in his hand. And he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many. He also shall stand up against the Ruler of rulers. But he shall be broken without a hand."
Antiochus IV Epiphanes fulfilled a lot of what was prophesied, but not all was fulfilled. I believe Antiochus IV who defiled the temple is a type of the man of sin of 2 Thess 2:4 - NOT the same person, but the type.
IMO the legs of iron represent the two most powerful of the four kingdoms that came out of the Greek kingdom - Egypt and Seleucia, and the ten toes (ten kings) are the leopard, the bear and the lion (Greece, Persia, and Babylon) mentioned in Daniel 7 and Revelation 13.
and the beast of the Revelation is linked to the leopard, the lion, and the bear.
Daniel 8:20-25
"The ram which you saw having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the shaggy goat is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king. And as for that being broken, and four stood up in its place; four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in its power.
And in the latter time of their kingdom, .."
(in the latter time of the kings of the Greek kingdom after it was divided into four parts)
" ..when the transgressors have come to the full,
a king, fierce of face, and skilled at intrigues, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power.
And he shall destroy marvelously, and shall prosper and work, and destroy the mighty and the holy people. And also through his understanding, he shall cause deceit to succeed in his hand. And he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many. He also shall stand up against the Ruler of rulers. But he shall be broken without a hand."
Antiochus IV Epiphanes fulfilled a lot of what was prophesied, but not all was fulfilled. I believe Antiochus IV who defiled the temple is a type of the man of sin of 2 Thess 2:4 - NOT the same person, but the type.
IMO the legs of iron represent the two most powerful of the four kingdoms that came out of the Greek kingdom - Egypt and Seleucia, and the ten toes (ten kings) are the leopard, the bear and the lion (Greece, Persia, and Babylon) mentioned in Daniel 7 and Revelation 13.
I don't believe I have read this interpretation before.... but I certainly can understand how you arrived at it. I do believe that most interpreters believe that Rome is the 4th kingdom, and ALL (except me of course), claims that the four generals that come after Alexander represent the four kingdoms --- and out of one of them comes the little horn. Thus, they ALL contend this to be AE. Sp, even though our individual interpretations depart from "today's accepted interpretations." perhaps we might go through those verses / prophecies that have determined our interpretations (not too much detail because that might take a few years...). So, if you are willing:
The only way I believe is a good starting point is to make two comments:
1) That Chapter 2 provides us with the "structure" or the "blueprint" for the four and only four kingdoms that will come upon the earth WITHIN His plan of salvation for the Jews and mankind (obviously, there will be hundreds of nations, powers or kingdoms that will come after the cross, but God is only revealing these 4 because He can include all of His prophecies within the timing of these 4 that will / can take us to the end times).
2) Consequently, if we identify the 4 kingdoms in Chapter 2, they will not change regardless of the comments / prophecies, etc., found in the latter chapters of Daniel - 7 - 12.
a) if you accept the two statements above, I would like to suggest the 4 kingdoms revealed in Chapter 2 are:
Babylon, Medes-Persia, Greece, and Rome (first pagan then papal, but still only 4 kingdoms will come out of the sea or earth).
So, I will look forward to your response should you want to continue....
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Well I already said that I do not believe that Rome is the fourth kingdom. This is what I believe the scriptures are telling us:
"FIVE HAVE FALLEN"
The Roman Empire of circa 95 / 96 A.D (the approximate date John wrote the Revelation) was not the kingdom or empire "that was, and is not" (Revelation 17:8) (the kingdom that had existed, but no longer existed when John received the Revelation).
In other words, "the beast that "was, and is not, and will ascend from out of the abyss" existed before the Roman Empire (Revelation 17:8 & 11).
This is how the book of Daniel identifies the kingdoms - and Rome is completely absent from it:-
Daniel 7 symbolizes them as:
(I) Lion: Nebuchadnezzar's Babylonian kingdom.
(II) Bear: Medo-Persian kingdom.
(III) Leopard: Macedonian (Greek) kingdom of Alexander the Great (four heads).
(IV) A 4th kingdom.
Daniel 8 symbolizes the second kingdom above as a ram, and the third as a goat, and this is what was prophesied about the latter time of that third kingdom (in the latter time of the kings of the Greek kingdom after it was divided into four parts):
Daniel 8:20-25
"The ram which you saw having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the shaggy goat is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king. And as for that being broken, and four stood up in its place; four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in its power. And in the latter time of their kingdom, .."
(in the latter time of the kings of the Greek kingdom after it was divided into four parts)
" ..when the transgressors have come to the full, a king, fierce of face, and skilled at intrigues, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power.
And he shall destroy marvelously, and shall prosper and work, and destroy the mighty and the holy people. And also through his understanding, he shall cause deceit to succeed in his hand. And he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many. He also shall stand up against the Ruler of rulers. But he shall be broken without a hand."
The above is telling us that the 4th kingdom already existed, and that it existed in the latter time of the kingdoms which succeeded the Greek kingdom of Alexander the Great. Yet not everything that is prophesied regarding the 4th kingdom has been fulfilled yet. The reason for this lies in the Revelation.
323 BC: Alexander the Great dies (the Seleucid Empire was only founded by Seleucus after his death).
321-312 BC: Seleucus took the throne of the Seleucid kingdom - one of the 4 kingdoms that rose out of the 3rd beast - in 321 BC, but expanded his kingdom by conquest, eventually establishing the Seleucid Empire, in 312 BC.
The Seleucid kingdom eventually incorporated all the territories of the first two kingdoms mentioned in Daniel chapter 7:
(I) Lion: Nebuchadnezzar's Babylonian kingdom.
(II) Bear: Medo-Persian kingdom.
The history of the four kingdoms which succeeded the kingdom of Alexander the Great that occurred between 312 BC and 223 BC is not pertinent to the prophecy mentioned above, because the prophecy is talking about a king that would arise during the latter days of those kingdoms.
187 BC-175 BC: Seleucus IV Philopator took the throne in 187 BC, but Philopator was murdered in 175 BC, and his younger brother Antiochus IV Epiphanes seized the throne illegally from his nephew (Philopator's son).
164 BC: Death of Antiochus IV Epiphanes.
The Seleucid Empire had already been losing territory, steadily breaking up into smaller kingdoms, but after the death of Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 164 BC this break-up into smaller kingdoms occurred rapidly, and the former Seleucid Empire ceased to exist as an empire.
Antiochus IV Epiphanes was the last king of that part of the Greek empire. It was the latter days of the greater part of the Greek kingdom.
30 BC-27 BC: The only part of the former Greek Empire of Alexander the Great that continued to exist as a kingdom after the demise of the Seleucid Empire, was Egypt of the Ptolemy dynasty. It ceased to exist in 30 BC when the last Queen of Egypt, Cleopatra, died. It officially became part of the Roman Empire in 27 BC.
The above two halves of the Greek Empire (the Seleucid Empire and Egypt) are the legs of iron. The feet are the same kingdoms ascended from the bottomless pit: Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, the Seleucid Empire and the Ptolemaic kingdom of Egypt (the last two of which incorporated the four Greek kingdoms that had originally come out of the Diadoche wars), had all ceased to exist as empires and kingdoms by the time John received the Revelation.
Rome - the sixth "head" of the seven-headed beast - existed as an empire at the time John received the Revelation, and John was told that the ten kings that he saw had not received any kingdom yet.
Those ten kings of Revelation chapters 13 & 17 will also make war with the Lamb (Revelation 17:14),
which again tells us that they will exist (as Revelation 17:11-14 tells us) with the beast that existed before the days of the Roman Empire - the beast that John was told will ascend from out of the abyss (Revelation 17:8 & 11-14)
- and that kingdom (beast) is identified in Revelation 13:2 by the symbols of a leopard, a bear and a lion - Greece, Persia and Babylon.
Thanks for the detailed interpretations! If you do not mind, can we do two things? One, go back to Chapter 2 and let me know if you believe that the 4 kingdoms in Chapter 2 remain the same 4 throughout the Book of Daniel. Secondly, can we discuss the 4th kingdom in Chapter 2 only without using any other book or extrabibilical records other than Daniel? Because, after the Jews returned to Jerusalem, they would not have access to Revelation nor would any Jew look to a pagan or Gentile record to try and interpret Daniel.
That is the way I tried to understand Daniel --- as though I was sitting at my desk around the 1st century reading the Book of Daniel and having the Tanakh sitting next to me should I want to see if / how other prophecies spoke of the coming Messiah or the destruction and restoration of His people and His city.
So, would you please tell me what verses / prophecies, etc., in Chapter 2 reveal the identity of the 4th kingdom? Thanks so much.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
I don't believe as you do that chapter 2 is a blueprint for everything else. Daniel's 4th kingdom in chapter 2 has to be the same as the 4th kingdom in chapters 7 and 8 and 11, and connected by the text in Daniel to the Roman Empire if it's referring to the Roman Empire - if not in chapter 2, then in one of the other chapters.
The only place we find any reference to the Roman Republic is in Daniel 11:29-30. Gaius Popillius Laenas, Roman ambassador, drew a circle around Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 168 B.C and told him to consider himself at war with Rome if he steps out of the circle before giving the ambassador a reply as to whether or not he would withdraw from Egypt.
I also unfortunately can't discuss it with you if you believe history and the historical records are of no consequence when interpreting scripture, because you are bound to come up with errors due to lack of knowledge if you disregard the historical record.
The 4th kingdom of Daniel is connected in the book of Daniel itself to the Greek kingdom which incorporated all of Babylonia and Media-Persia at its height. Iron is not a symbol unique to the Roman Empire. I don't find Daniel connecting the 4th kingdom to the Roman Empire.
Ok, I got it.... and I agree with you. Unless we both agree that the 4 kingdoms in Chapter 2, whatever they may be, continue throughout the remaining chapters, there is no reason to discuss our interpretations. But that is exactly why I proposed to begin at Chapter 2... no problem at all... thanks.
Keraz
Well-Known Member
- Jun 20, 2018
- 6,172
- 1,072
- 113
- 83
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- New Zealand
Hello
Perhaps we have Daniel 2 all wrong. The dream that Neb had was all about what would happen to Babylon.
The first three kingdoms that had dominion over the land of Babylon are
Babylon
Medes and Persians
The Greek Empire(s)
The first empire was ruled by Alexandra the Great and then after the death of Alexandra the Great the Seleucid Empire had dominion over the Land of Babylon. The Seleucid Empire devastated and desolated the land of Babylon around the year 150 BC.
Jeremiah in Jer 50 tells us that the Land of Babylon would be devastated and desolated by the Seleucid Empire and that it would remain devastated and desolated for two ages. In Revelation 16:17-21 tells us that it would be remembered once more before God to receive His cup of wrath. The land of Babylon was remembered and in 1926 AD the nation of Iraq was established to have dominion over the land of Babylon.
Then in 2003 a Coalition of Nations invaded Iraq which was led by the President of the USA as commander of the forces that went into Iraq.
So, understanding this modern history of the Land of Babylon we can state that the fourth and fifth segments of the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy are: -
Iraq and
The Coalition of the Willing led by the USA.
The Roman Empire did not have dominion over the Land of Babylon at any time.
Shalom
Perhaps we have Daniel 2 all wrong. The dream that Neb had was all about what would happen to Babylon.
The first three kingdoms that had dominion over the land of Babylon are
Babylon
Medes and Persians
The Greek Empire(s)
The first empire was ruled by Alexandra the Great and then after the death of Alexandra the Great the Seleucid Empire had dominion over the Land of Babylon. The Seleucid Empire devastated and desolated the land of Babylon around the year 150 BC.
Jeremiah in Jer 50 tells us that the Land of Babylon would be devastated and desolated by the Seleucid Empire and that it would remain devastated and desolated for two ages. In Revelation 16:17-21 tells us that it would be remembered once more before God to receive His cup of wrath. The land of Babylon was remembered and in 1926 AD the nation of Iraq was established to have dominion over the land of Babylon.
Then in 2003 a Coalition of Nations invaded Iraq which was led by the President of the USA as commander of the forces that went into Iraq.
So, understanding this modern history of the Land of Babylon we can state that the fourth and fifth segments of the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy are: -
Iraq and
The Coalition of the Willing led by the USA.
The Roman Empire did not have dominion over the Land of Babylon at any time.
Shalom
Jay, if you do not mind, I am having trouble understanding why some folks have interpreted much of Daniel to speak of the times after the cross period. Certainly, Daniel covers or mentions that destruction of the Temple and the city in 70 AD, but that is it --- he mentions it as one of the prohetic events that would come about as a result of the Jews rejecting their Messiah. In a later chapter, Daniel will provide or discuss the events that will take place from the cross to the coming of the little horn which will occur around 500 AD. But again, all of these events are within 450 years of the cross. Chapter 12 is perhaps the shortest chapter in Daniel and it does speak to the true end times but there is not much in details given. So, my question is what might the most signififcant verses in Daniel seems to be telling some folks that they speak of the post - 500 AD period (other than Chapter 12?). Thanks....
Doesn't the Book of Daniel categorically state this Book is written for "Daniel's people and Daniel's city," which are those that would be returning to Jerusalem after the destruction by Babylon? What I believe I have seen is that so many verses in Daniel are just so difficult to interpret that many have looked to Revelation to try and interpret what Daniel must be saying.... bad approach.... Daniel will indeed interpret Daniel... Look forward to your thoughts...
Thanks Jay, and I do agree, although Daniel is not an easy book to interpret... and if one attempts to interpret it as it relates to our history books, I can assure you their interpretations are quite flawed. God did not write this book just to recount our historical events... Whether it is in Chapter 2, a seeminly historical chapter to Chapter 7 and onward, He is giving us His messianic prophecies WITHIN the 4 kingdom structure. The "structure" is not the story... it is all about His plan or restoration for Daniel's people, his city and the coming of the Messiah within the 70 weeks of years prophecy and then the consequences of those who would accept Jesus as their Messiah and those that will not - but follow the false teachings of the little horn until He returns. That really is it.... That is the script and it is found within these 4 kingdoms (mostly the 4th kingdom)...... Look forward to hearing frrom you... when convenient.
The key verse is verse 44
44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.
This shows that the kingdom of God the rock cut from the mountain was set up in the time of king Nebuchadnezzar as he was the head of Gold. Gods kingdom lived through and persevered through those kingdoms and eventually God judged and defeated them through other kingdoms.
The head of gold is Babylon
The chest and arms of silver is the Mendes
The belly and thighs of bronze is Persia
The legs of iron, and feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay is Greece
We see some of this happen throughout the book of Daniel and then see it also prophesied in the latter part of the book.
Would you mind discussing your selection of the 4 kingdoms in the Chapter 2 metal man image?
Why did you split up the second kingdom of the Medes-Persia into two?
Why not Rome for the 4th kingdom? This is indeed the time / kingdom when the Messiah would arrive and the 70 weeks of years prophecy would end. So much of the later chapters included actors / events that took place during the Roman Empire.
Look forward to your thoughts!
Similar threads
