The six things of Daniel 9:24

[Spiritual Israelite]

I still don't get it?

Of course not.

Why the last thing on the list is the very first thing fulfilled? Not according to me, but according to some of you and what you are applying that to.

What are you talking about?

I would think that angel had better sense than that. If the idea was that number 6 is fulfilled first, he should have at least listed it first rather than last.

This is ridiculous. They are not listed in order that they would be fulfilled. There is no indication of such a thing.

When the angel mentioned the first 7 weeks, the 62 weeks, then the 70th week, he didn't apply any of that out of chronological order. Everything was/is fulfilled in the exact order he placed them. First the 7 weeks, then the 62 weeks, then the 70th week.

LOL. Show me where there is any indication whatsoever that the things listed in Daniel 9:24 had to be fulfilled in the order they were listed. Good luck. That is total nonsense. You're always trying to find a way around the truth.

But in verse 24 this angel disregarded chronology altogether, thus trying to confuse us here if the last thing on this list is actually the first thing on that list that is fulfilled. Had he put that 'first' on the list, I might be inclined to agree that maybe it could be meaning what you are applying it to. But since he didn't, I see no reason to apply it to what you are applying it to. At least I'm trying to be somewhat objective here by saying that if he had listed that first, maybe then it could apply to what you are applying it to, meaning that I would be open to it involving that had he listed it first rather than last.

LOL. If only you knew how weak your arguments are. You're always trying to come up with stuff like this. It's not convincing whatsoever. Is this all you have as a response to try to refute what I said? You are not being objective at all. You are clearly trying to make Daniel 9:24 say what you want it to say. You are not objectively considering my interpretation of it at all and you know it. If you were, then you wouldn't come up with nonsense like this to try to get around what I said.

Why don't you give your interpretation of Daniel 9:24? If you want to be taken seriously about this, then let's see your interpretation. If the most holy isn't Jesus then who or what is it and how was or will it be anointed?

 

[Douggg]

The 3,000 Jews didn't belong to the whole?

What or who did they belong to?

Define "whole".

Then show us "whole" in Daniel 9.

as a "whole" as being the majority.

Neither whole, nor partial, appears in Daniel 9. What it say is...

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

as a "whole" as being the majority.

Whole, nor partial, appears in Daniel 9. What it say is...

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Where does that verse say something about the majority of Daniel's people? Looks like you're making things up again.

 

[Douggg]

So, the prophecy has nothing to do with all the Jews who have accepted Christ and have been saved for the past almost 2,000 years? Let me remind you of something you said earlier.

The majority of the Jews have not.

You make everything far more complicated than it needs to be. Finishing the transgression has nothing to do with any of that, but rather has to do with this:

The 70 years that the Jews would be in Babylonian captivity was because of their getting into idol worship which was "the" transgression in Daniel 9:24.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[Douggg]

Where does that verse say something about the majority of Daniel's people? Looks like you're making things up again.

Neither whole, nor partial, appears in Daniel 9.

 

[Douggg]

Did Jesus not "make an end of sins' power to eternally separate man from God" for those Jews who have been saved the past almost 2,000 years?

Of course, for Jews and Gentiles who received the gospel.

But the majority of the Jews, Daniel's people, have not.

The 70th week remains unfulfilled.

 

[TribulationSigns]

So, the prophecy has nothing to do with all the Jews who have accepted Christ and have been saved for the past almost 2,000 years? Let me remind you of something you said earlier.

Did Jesus not "make an end of sins' power to eternally separate man from God" for those Jews who have been saved the past almost 2,000 years? Did Jesus not make reconciliation for their iniquity? He certainly did, right? So, why do you try to say that the prophecy isn't about them? That contradicts what you said about the fulfillment of making an end of sins and making reconciliation for iniquity which you said were fulfilled "By Jesus's death on the cross".

Well, Christ DID go to the Cross "on that day" and He did put an end to sins. And this applies to the Saints in the Old Testament. The living water was not strictly only to the New Testament period after the Cross. As it is written:

Zec 14:8-9
(8) And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
(9) And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

From the Cross, the Holy Spirit (the Living Water) went back to the former sea (Old Testament Saints) and the hinder sea (the New Testament Saints). In that day, Christ has established His Kingdom.

 

[TribulationSigns]

But the majority of the Jews, Daniel's people, have not.

False, Daniel's people are ALL Saints from the Old Testament and the New Testament, whether Jews or Gentiles, IN CHRIST - whom He has confirmed an everlasting covenant with! This is what Daniel 9 is all about. It is between God and His people which is Daniel's people!

Selah!

The 70th week remains unfulfilled.

The final week of Daniel began at the Cross when Christ died with His Blood (Per Hebrew 9). A covenant is for HIS people, not for himself! And it lasts until the Consummation which obviously will be Christ's Second Coming on the LAST DAY. So the whole week lasted from the Cross until the Second Coming which is the purpose of Church's great commission until all Elect are secured. THEN the end comes with the loosening of Satan. It will NOT be 7 years as you think, whether was fulfilled in the first century or related to the modern state of Israel waiting for a peace treaty from European.

 

[Jay Ross]

Perhaps we should look at Daniel 9:24 in this manner/way: -

"Seventy weeks are determined​

For your people and for your holy city,​

​

To: - ​

​

a. finish the transgression, and​

b. make an end of sins.​

​

{And then after the 70 weeks of years has past} Israel, my faithful servant, i.e. Christ, will: -​

​

1. make reconciliation for iniquity,​

2. bring in everlasting righteousness,​

3. seal up vision and prophecy, and​

4. anoint a scared place {as being} Holy. ​

It is my understanding that the 70 weeks of years in verse 9 ended with the birth of Christ which is also the time that the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers, for their idolatrous worship, would begin and that this visitation, that would last for two ages, would be the fulfilment of 2 Chronicles 7:19-22: -

19 “But if you turn away and forsake My statutes and My commandments which I have set before you, and go and serve other gods, and worship them, 20 then I will uproot them from My land which I have given them; and this house which I have sanctified for My name I will cast out of My sight, and will make it a proverb and a byword among all peoples.​

​

21 “And as for this house, which is exalted, everyone who passes by it will be astonished and say, ‘Why has the Lord done thus to this land and this house?’ Then they will answer, ‘Because they forsook the Lord God of their fathers, who brought them out of the land of Egypt, and embraced other gods, and worshiped them and served them; therefore He has brought all this calamity on them.’ ”​

Remember that the land promised as a possession in Genesis 13 and 15 was taken from the Israelites after the death of Solomon, and that the only land possession that Israel retained was promised to them in Genesis 17:8 which I would paraphrase in this manner: -

"8 Also I will give the following entity to your descendants after you, the land in which you are presently sojourning in, the entity of all the land of Canaan, for a period of time, where the end point of this time period will be beyond their ability to comprehend, as possession; and I will be their God.”​

Israel lost possession of the land of Canaan in 70 AD because they did not stop their idolatrous worship or repent of their sin during the allotted 490 years.

As such Daniel 9:24a was allotted to the nation of Israel to fulfill while Daniel 9:24b Christ fulfilled during his first Advent.

Daniel 9:25 is a separate prophecy with an independent time period that was not associated with the time period of Daniel 9:24.

Daniel 9:27 is still a distant future prophecy where its fulfilment is described in the Book of Revelation and will occur after the Bottomless pit is unlocked and those who have been imprisoned are able to rise up out of the bottomless pit before they are given their punishment in the Lake of fire.



Shalom

 

[IndianaRob]

There are six things in Daniel 9:24 that are to be completed during the 70 weeks determined upon Daniel's people and upon the holy city of Jerusalem.

What is your explanation for each of the six things ?

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. ...

1. to finish the transgression

Galatians 3:19 (KJV): "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator."

2. to make an end of sins

Hebrews 9:26 (KJV): "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”

3. to make reconciliation for iniquity

Romans 5:10 (KJV): "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

4. to bring in everlasting righteousness

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV): "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

5. to seal up the vision and prophecy,

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

6. to anoint the most Holy.

Luke 4:18 (KJV):
"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised."

 

[CTK]

Perhaps we should look at Daniel 9:24 in this manner/way: -

"Seventy weeks are determined​

For your people and for your holy city,​

​

To: - ​

​

a. finish the transgression, and​

b. make an end of sins.​

​

{And then after the 70 weeks of years has past} Israel, my faithful servant, i.e. Christ, will: -​

​

1. make reconciliation for iniquity,​

2. bring in everlasting righteousness,​

3. seal up vision and prophecy, and​

4. anoint a scared place {as being} Holy. ​

It is my understanding that the 70 weeks of years in verse 9 ended with the birth of Christ which is also the time that the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers, for their idolatrous worship, would begin and that this visitation, that would last for two ages, would be the fulfilment of 2 Chronicles 7:19-22: -

19 “But if you turn away and forsake My statutes and My commandments which I have set before you, and go and serve other gods, and worship them, 20 then I will uproot them from My land which I have given them; and this house which I have sanctified for My name I will cast out of My sight, and will make it a proverb and a byword among all peoples.​

​

21 “And as for this house, which is exalted, everyone who passes by it will be astonished and say, ‘Why has the Lord done thus to this land and this house?’ Then they will answer, ‘Because they forsook the Lord God of their fathers, who brought them out of the land of Egypt, and embraced other gods, and worshiped them and served them; therefore He has brought all this calamity on them.’ ”​

Remember that the land promised as a possession in Genesis 13 and 15 was taken from the Israelites after the death of Solomon, and that the only land possession that Israel retained was promised to them in Genesis 17:8 which I would paraphrase in this manner: -

"8 Also I will give the following entity to your descendants after you, the land in which you are presently sojourning in, the entity of all the land of Canaan, for a period of time, where the end point of this time period will be beyond their ability to comprehend, as possession; and I will be their God.”​

Israel lost possession of the land of Canaan in 70 AD because they did not stop their idolatrous worship or repent of their sin during the allotted 490 years.

As such Daniel 9:24a was allotted to the nation of Israel to fulfill while Daniel 9:24b Christ fulfilled during his first Advent.

Daniel 9:25 is a separate prophecy with an independent time period that was not associated with the time period of Daniel 9:24.

Daniel 9:27 is still a distant future prophecy where its fulfilment is described in the Book of Revelation and will occur after the Bottomless pit is unlocked and those who have been imprisoned are able to rise up out of the bottomless pit before they are given their punishment in the Lake of fire.



Shalom

Please consider the following...

Daniel 9:24 outlines six key objectives that the Messiah would accomplish, and the order in which they are listed follows a logical progression. First, the Messiah is said to "finish transgression," which means addressing humanity's rebellion against God. Next, He will "make an end of sins," or, breaking the power that sin has over people. After that, He will "make reconciliation for iniquity," He can notw restore the relationship between God and humanity. With sin dealt with and reconciliation achieved, the Messiah will then "bring in everlasting righteousness," establishing a new, righteous order that will last forever. God cannot be in the presence of sin. The next step, "sealing up vision and prophecy," suggests that once the Messiah’s work is completed, there will be no further need for prophecy, as everything foretold has been fulfilled. Finally, "anointing the most Holy" likely refers to the consecration of a new, holy reality, where God's presence is fully realized. This order highlights a movement from dealing with the immediate problem of sin to the ultimate goal of creating a righteous and holy state of existence.

 

[covenantee]

as a "whole" as being the majority.

Neither whole, nor partial, appears in Daniel 9. What it say is...

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Yes, it says "thy people". And the 3,000 men of Israel in Acts 2:41 certainly qualified as "thy people".

Did those 3,000 men of Israel experience Christ's "reconciliation for iniquity" when they received Him?

 

[Douggg]

Yes, it says "thy people". And the 3,000 men of Israel in Acts 2:41 certainly qualified as "thy people".

Did those 3,000 men of Israel experience Christ's "reconciliation for iniquity" when they received Him?

I think it means Daniel's people collectively... i.e. the nation of Israel. 3,000 people don't make a nation. Do you think Israel over there is a Christian nation ?

I really don't understand the point you are trying to make. The 70 weeks will be finish when Israel believes upon the Lord Jesus Christ for forgiveness of their sins and Jerusalem says..."blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord".

 

[Douggg]

False, Daniel's people are ALL Saints from the Old Testament and the New Testament, whether Jews or Gentiles, IN CHRIST - whom He has confirmed an everlasting covenant with! This is what Daniel 9 is all about. It is between God and His people which is Daniel's people!

Who went into Babylonian captivity ? Those are Daniel's people.

Differently, if you are talking about Christ's people, it is everyone who believes and trust in Him as their Lord and Savior.

 

[Douggg]

So the whole week lasted from the Cross until the Second Coming

The 70th week begins with the confirmation of the covenant (the Mt. Sinai covenant) and ends with Jesus's Return, his Second Coming. The 70th week is still unfulfilled.

 

[covenantee]

I think it means Daniel's people collectively... i.e. the nation of Israel. 3,000 people don't make a nation. Do you think Israel over there is a Christian nation ?

I really don't understand the point you are trying to make. The 70 weeks will be finish when Israel believes upon the Lord Jesus Christ for forgiveness of their sins and Jerusalem says..."blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord".

The point is simple. The 3,000 men of Israel in Acts 2:41 qualified as Daniel's "thy people", and experienced Christ's "reconciliation for iniquity" in Daniel 9:24, fulfilled at Calvary in the midst of the 70th week. Daniel 9:27

As has every one of the multitude of Israelites since that time, to this moment in time, who has received Christ.

And who will receive Christ from this moment until He returns.

 

[jeffweeder]

I think it means Daniel's people collectively... i.e. the nation of Israel.

Not all Israel is Israel, only those who look for Messiah to atone for sin in 70 weeks. Mission accomplished for those who looked forward this.

3,000 people don't make a nation.

They add to the number who looked forward to the Messiah saving them for their sins.


Jn 10
14 I am the Good Shepherd, and I know [without any doubt those who are] My own and My own know Me [and have a deep, personal relationship with Me]— 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father—and I lay down My [very own] life [sacrificing it] for the benefit of the sheep. 16 I have other sheep [beside these] that are not of this fold. I must bring those also, and they will listen to My voice and pay attention to My call, and they will become one flock with one Shepherd.

God indeed saves the whole world through Jesus Christ.

The 70 weeks will be finish when Israel believes upon the Lord Jesus Christ for forgiveness of their sins.

Not all of them did and not all of them will.... only a remnant per nation is saved and seated in the heavenly realm as one sheep and a Holy Nation. A people belonging to God.

The last half of the 70th week is attributed to the Disciples confirming the New covenant in the power of the Holy Spirit, just as Jesus did.
The Good news was then sent to the Gentiles after the 70 week prophecy for Daniels own people.

 

[Douggg]

The point is simple. The 3,000 men of Israel in Acts 2:41 qualified as Daniel's "thy people", and experienced Christ's "reconciliation for iniquity" in Daniel 9:24, fulfilled at Calvary in the midst of the 70th week.

Were the 3000 men of the same ethnic group as Daniel ? yes, course. But Daniel's people in Daniel 9:24 is referring to the large group of Jews that shared in the Babylonian captivity with Daniel, which was around 120, 000.

The 70th week has not begun yet, because the vision that must be fulfilled in Daniel 9:24 is that of the time of the end little horn person's activities.

 

[Douggg]

They add to the number who looked forward to the Messiah saving them for their sins.

jeff, who are the Jews looking for right now ? Jesus ? Or someone else ?

The majority of Jews are looking for another Jew, not Jesus, as their King of Israel messiah. That person will be the Antichrist.

 

[covenantee]

Were the 3000 men of the same ethnic group as Daniel ? yes, course. But Daniel's people in Daniel 9:24 is referring to the large group of Jews that shared in the Babylonian captivity with Daniel, which was around 120, 000.

The 70th week has not begun yet, because the vision that must be fulfilled in Daniel 9:24 is that of the time of the end little horn person's activities.

Did the 3,000 men of Israel experience Christ's "reconciliation for iniquity" when they received Him?