Understanding what is the "Abomination of Desolation".

[Douggg]

So, I went back to my desk and I believe that God allowed me to find this (and remember, the time element of the 2300 evenings and mornings meant the Sanctuary would be cleansed. Who is the ONLY One that could do this? The Messsiah at His first coming.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
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Cleansed of what ? i.e. cleansed of the things that will have made the temple desolate (from the praise and worship of the One True God).

The things that will make the temple desolate will be...

1. the beast-king and false prophet present on the temple mount and in the temple building.
2. the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast-king standing on the temple mount.
3. Satan indwelling the statue image, making it appear to have life and speaking (Revelation 13:15).

Here is a graphic I made of when the temple and temple mount will be cleansed of those three things that will make it desolate.

The beast king and false prophet cast alive into the lake of fire.

The statue image turned to ashes (Ezekiel 28:16-19), exposing Satan. Then Satan cast into the bottomless pit.

 

[Douggg]

@CTK

Revelation 13:5 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

A statue image that comes to life and speaks ? And is worshiped ?

That has not happened yet. But is sometime in the future.

 

[CTK]

The labels "pagan Rome" and "papal Rome" are unique to SDA's position that the office of the pope is the Antichrist.

The fourth kingdom in Daniel 7 is the Roman Empire, which consists of more than Rome.

Does not SDA consider the office of the pope, papacy, to be the little horn - and not one specific pope or individual ? Yes? No?

In my view, I consider the little horn to be one specific person.

Thanks Dougg. I do believe the SDA considers the pope to be the little horn. I have no idea if they treat or think of him as the "antichrist." since there is, in my belief absolutely no antichrist figure anywhere in the Scriptures.

But the little horn is the papacy and he is identified in Chapter 7 as a man with eyes, but of cours no man lives for 2000 years. The pope / papacy is the symbol of the little horn, and he will indeed continue until the end of time. The SDA believe the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy must be converted to 2300 years. In fact, there are 5 specific time elements in Daniel, and they treat everyone of them the same. They claim they should follow the "year for a day principle," however, this "principle" was created by them and is an incorrect application. Each of the 5 time elements in Daniel must be interpreted based on the context they are found.

What about the timing of the little horn? He must come onto the scene, or come out of pagan Rome and they were slain and its body was destroyed per 7:11? This occurred around 470 AD, and would eventually be taken over by the Christian church, headed by the bishop of Rome who would become known as the Pope / papacy and Papal Rome.

 

[CTK]

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
--------------------------------------------

Cleansed of what ? i.e. cleansed of the things that will have made the temple desolate (from the praise and worship of the One True God).

The things that will make the temple desolate will be...

1. the beast-king and false prophet present on the temple mount and in the temple building.
2. the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast-king standing on the temple mount.
3. Satan indwelling the statue image, making it appear to have life and speaking (Revelation 13:15).

Here is a graphic I made of when the temple and temple mount will be cleansed of those three things that will make it desolate.

The beast king and false prophet cast alive into the lake of fire.

The statue image turned to ashes (Ezekiel 28:16-19), exposing Satan. Then Satan cast into the bottomless pit.


View attachment 49452

The purpose of the animal sacrifices prior to the coming of the Messiah was to offer them as a sacrifice to remove the sin of the people. The Sanctuary was the place where the blood of the animal was placed. Sacrifice is in the blood. But after the cross, there would be no further need for any animal sacrifices, nor the Sanctuary, nor the Temple or the holy vessels. The Passover feast was also done away with since the Messiah fulfilled the first 4 Spring festivals. The only remaining 3 festivals of the original 7 will take place at His second coming wheh He will arrive exactly on the Day of the Trumpets.....

 

[Douggg]

Thanks Dougg. I do believe the SDA considers the pope to be the little horn. I have no idea if they treat or think of him as the "antichrist." since there is, in my belief absolutely no antichrist figure anywhere in the Scriptures.

Who do you think is the beast in Revelation 13 and Revelation 19, who get cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus's Return, His Second Coming ?

 

[CTK]

Who do you think is the beast in Revelation 13 and Revelation 19, who get cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus's Return, His Second Coming ?

Dougg, unfortunately, I have not studied Revelation at all. But I would like to mention that whatever your interpretations for Revelations can not be brought back to determine one's interpretations in Daniel. I do understand that they will not conflict with each other but Daniel must be interpreted by Daniel and then those interpretations can be brought forward to Revelation.

I think one of the most difficult things in Daniel is when intepretaters can not match up the actors and events within Daniel - and this really begins in Chapter 7 to our history books. Consequently, they are thrown far into the future. But I can assure you they mostly speak of the time of the Messiah (70 weeks of years prophecy with the focus on the Messiah and His plan of salvation). Daniel is really not a secular book or a historical book.

But one of the most important keys to understanding Daniel, and this took me so long to discover is not in Chapter 7, because so many of the prophecies in 7 are dependent on the interpretations found in Chapter 2. I could not get passed 7,8,9 etc., until I repeatedly had to go back to Chapter 2 and study those verses that were still too difficult to interpret or have been interpreted incorrectly and required a completely new way of looking at those verses. And it all starts with verses 2:34-35. This is where it all begins and will open up Chapter 7 and so on.

 

[Douggg]

Dougg, unfortunately, I have not studied Revelation at all. But I would like to mention that whatever your interpretations for Revelations can not be brought back to determine one's interpretations in Daniel. I do understand that they will not conflict with each other but Daniel must be interpreted by Daniel and then those interpretations can be brought forward to Revelation.

I think one of the most difficult things in Daniel is when intepretaters can not match up the actors and events within Daniel - and this really begins in Chapter 7 to our history books. Consequently, they are thrown far into the future. But I can assure you they mostly speak of the time of the Messiah (70 weeks of years prophecy with the focus on the Messiah and His plan of salvation). Daniel is really not a secular book or a historical book.

But one of the most important keys to understanding Daniel, and this took me so long to discover is not in Chapter 7, because so many of the prophecies in 7 are dependent on the interpretations found in Chapter 2. I could not get passed 7,8,9 etc., until I repeatedly had to go back to Chapter 2 and study those verses that were still too difficult to interpret or have been interpreted incorrectly and required a completely new way of looking at those verses. And it all starts with verses 2:34-35. This is where it all begins and will open up Chapter 7 and so on.

In the bible, kjv, this phrase is found four times.

"time of the end"

Daniel 8:17 (the vision about the little horn person - the same vision spoke of in Daniel 9:21,22,23,24 )
Daniel 11:40
Daniel 12:4
Daniel 12:9

The 70th week is "time of the end" when Jesus returns to break the little horn person as it says in Daniel 8:25.

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When do you plan to start your study on Revelation ? I suggest you make it a priority.

 

[CTK]

In the bible, kjv, this phrase is found four times.

"time of the end"

Daniel 8:17 (the vision about the little horn person - the same vision spoke of in Daniel 9:21,22,23,24 )
Daniel 11:40
Daniel 12:4
Daniel 12:9

The 70th week is "time of the end" when Jesus returns to break the little horn person as it says in Daniel 8:25.

----------------------------------------

When do you plan to start your study on Revelation ? I suggest you make it a priority.

I really would like to hear your thoughts on why my comments / interpretations are rejected and why you have a different interpretation. I don't expect to provide my interpretations and have one immediately agree with them, but rarely do I get someone to discuss them and comment on them (pro or con), but simply repeat their own opinion. I can and will learn from anyone... if you have the time and interest, I would like to hear your thoughts on some of my interpretations. I certainly have given some details that can be focused on... perhaps you might take one at a time and we can discuss it before moving on to the next....

 

[Douggg]

I really would like to hear your thoughts on why my comments / interpretations are rejected and why you have a different interpretation.

The reason I disagree with your comments/interpretations is because you don't consider the time of the end parts of Daniel. And have not considered nor incorporated what Revelation contains about the time of the end events leading up to Jesus's Return. Nor have you incorporated Ezekiel 39 time of the end framework, which Jesus's Return in that chapter.

 

[CTK]

The reason I disagree with your comments/interpretations is because you don't consider the time of the end parts of Daniel. And have not considered nor incorporated what Revelation contains about the time of the end events leading up to Jesus's Return. Nor have you incorporated Ezekiel 39 time of the end framework, which Jesus's Return in that chapter.

Thanks Dougg.

1) Ezekiel comment - I believe I read that and agreed with you that it is speaking about the end times. But it has no relationship with Daniel.
2) I have given you my interpretations on the times in Daniel that mention "seal up or shut up these words." To repeat myself, I believe they are not meant to be interpreted as end time commands, they are meant to seal or shut up these prophecies until the "latter times" or the time of the coming Messsiah. There is absolutely nothing in Daniel or the Scriptures that would ever command His people or us after the cross to hold off reading, studying or attempt to interpret the Book of Daniel until the end times. The Book of Daniel was written for the Jews and Jerusalem. They were written for them to read, study and interpret the coming of the Messiah - do you not believe God gave them the Book of Daniel and all the prophecies about His coming and the cross, but told them they were not to be relevant or read, etc., until the time of the end? And I also mentioned to you that even Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel - "let him who reads, understands..."
3) As I mentioned a few times, Daniel interprets Daniel. The Jews who returned to Jerusalem would study the Book of Daniel and they expected their Messiah to arrive. They did not understand that He would arrive as a suffering servant. Thus. they certainly did study the Book of Daniel. God had given them the Book of Daniel ... He did not leave them or command them or direct them to go and find some history books of the Gentiles to confirm, compare or help interpret His Words and prophecies in Daniel. Daniel interprets Daniel. And this is why are interpretations should be understand by the Book of Daniel and not another document that was not yet written for them to consider. I don't know of ANYONE who believes they have an understanding of Revelation... they may attempt to understand it but ALL believe they represent actors and events like the EU, or Turkey or Russia or Islam, etc. Daniel is about the 70 weeks of years prophecy when Daniel's people and Daniel's city will be restored after the Babylonian destruction and God will use this restoration plan to bring the Messiah to earth. He will represent the final piece of furniture - the Ark of the Covenant to be restored in the Sanctuary when He arrives on the first day of the "set aside" last week of the prophecy. This was His week to complete His God given mission found in 9:24.
Leave Revelation alone until Daniel is understood.... and Daniel is not about the end times... although in 11:40-45 and Chapter 12, it certainly mentions the time of the end --- but not in details. Everything else would occur between Babylon and the arrival of the little horn around 500 AD.

 

[Douggg]

Leave Revelation alone until Daniel is understood...

Daniel cannot be understood apart from Revelation.

 

[Jay Ross]

Daniel cannot be understood apart from Revelation.

No, Daniel cannot be understood because of the reformation and its false teaching about the beasts and the Little Horn which sadly even still prevails today.

 

[covenantee]

No, Daniel cannot be understood because of the reformation and it false teaching about the beasts and the Little Horn which sadly even still prevails today.

Thank God for the Reformation, and for the Reformers' response to God's call to spiritually confront and defeat the little horn antichrist of their era.

 

[Hobie]

The United states armed forces place a nuke in Jerusalem after Jerusalem has been taken.
That is what the abomination of desolation is .

A nuclear explosion.That is what Jesus described as being seen and people being fearful and fleeing for their lives.

Luke 21
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.


This nuclear war will be the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen.The abomination of desolation causes the earth to quake and heavens departing as a scroll being rolled together.

Not sure where you came up with that...